is a type r swap worth it

[tmk93]

hi I have a jap spec vti-r dc2 with a y80 gb and im after more power
i was wondering weither im beter off buying a type r engine for 4k or doing work in the head of mine

thanks

[u mad?]

Adrian got 140kw atw with c2 with headwork

def dont swap it for a c7. waste of money.

[EKVTIR-T]

turbo

[mocchi]

4k?

def tarborz it

[tmk93]

also forgot to mention still on my p's otherwise turbo it would be for sure

[u mad?]

what is ur budget

[tmk93]

most likely 3.5k as I need new tires all round
already have a brand new clutch and fly wheel just havnt installed it yet

[tmk93]

and need new drive shafts

[DreadAngel]

Just fix up the car and leave it there...

Wouldn't swap for B18C7 if you're after sizable power upgrade from your VTi-R...

[tmk93]

what should I look into for some gains, already have full exhaust and I have coilovers and upgraged sway and stut bars

[Renaissance_x]

If you want the car to be more like a type r have you considered just the gearbox upgrade?

[lil_foy]

b16 box will make your car good!

[Vvvtec]

b16 box will make your car good!

^This

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/stanley2.gif (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=q_KkuC3pcPJTUM&tbnid=LSKrMUvoe6a3XM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fgallery%2F yes%2F&ei=2XhLUoa5BIPVkwWj84HQBA&bvm=bv.53371865,d.dGI&psig=AFQjCNFFOesvniPES6x6uczgqgWzV88emg&ust=1380764245163290)

[Super-DA9]

Adrian got 140kw atw with c2 with headwork

def dont swap it for a c7. waste of money.

If you're referring to mine, the block is built too haha :P

with just headwork (cams/valvesprings) I was at 110kw. 139kw with further headwork, forged pistons and rods and boltons.

But yes I 100% agree!! Don't swap out for ITR engine if you already have a B18C2. The gains are not worth what people want for the engine. $4k for an ITR engine will fund the works for your engine and make better power. Average stock ITR engine with moderate kms generally makes 110kw-115kw atw. you can get that from cams, bolt ons and tune easily, if not more.

[tmk93]

I have thought of just getting a type r gearbox but no one wants to sell it without the engine

what cams and valve springs did u go with? and how much would it set me back

[Super-DA9]

I have thought of just getting a type r gearbox but no one wants to sell it without the engine

what cams and valve springs did u go with? and how much would it set me back

I'm using BuddyClub Spec 3+ cams and supertech valvesprings with OEM k series retainers

Look up the parts online for prices

[Baby Face]

put new tyres on it, it will make it faster (Y)









around corners.

[adriano10]

Get the b16 gb short ratios and some head work add more bolt ons and let it be until you get your Fulls unless you buy a type r

[Daveho1]

jackson racing have some nice items you may be interested in :)
honestly it depends what u want from it if u just want more power for no reason its kinda hard to make recommendations as we could recommend stupid shit and make it totally un streetable but if your competing in WTA then that may be fine for you..

[MrJoeySan]

Going from C2 to C7 is a gain of about 13kw (at the fly) and torque stays about the same iirc...(Please correct if wrong)

$4k is a lot to spend for 13kw...

What do you want to use the car for?

$4k can leave a lot of change left over after getting you coilovers etc. and new wheels to improve handling and/or look...
As others have said it can also take you down the path of doing some engine work which will see you get gains...
Or you could get a B16 box as others have suggested which could help eeek out the most from the engine you've got.

[dougie_504]

Get a 4.9FD or ITR GBox.

Or some cams.

[u mad?]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRtOzErW_BAj4Kgg1fcmmssyc_N-HGrcHS17Pqlbm2-t_8tUVaAA

[tmk93]

im thinking of going 4.9FD
cams and a hondata
if I can fit that in my 3.5k budget im currently looking around online

[u mad?]

im thinking of going 4.9FD
cams and a hondata
if I can fit that in my 3.5k budget im currently looking around online

what are your current bolt-ons?

[tripleuse]

im thinking of going 4.9FD
cams and a hondata
if I can fit that in my 3.5k budget im currently looking around online

wouldnt bother with cams on a stock c2. Wouldnt be much of a gain for the money spent.. If you were serious about building i would suggest b20. Just bolt on mods and tune the c2 and you should have a fun car.

[Daveho1]

not the best advise here^^ IMHO

[tmk93]

off the top of my head I have 4-1 plm narrow headers to a 2.5 inch b pipe and fujitsubo muffler, a short ram
and also have 10.6mm leads coz my old ones died

[Super-DA9]

off the top of my head I have 4-1 plm narrow headers to a 2.5 inch b pipe and fujitsubo muffler, a short ram
and also have 10.6mm leads coz my old ones died

Swap the short ram out for a CAI and run 68mm throttle body and S2/Blox intake manifold. Bore the manifold's throttle opening out to 68mm to match the throttle. Drop in some decent cams (+valvesprings/retainers if required) and get it tuned by someone reputable, you should see some very nice performance.

[amant02]

With 3.5k,

B16 gearbox will do you wonders for approx 1k (this should be 100% to get, as you already got lighter fly and heavy duty clutch i presume) This will get epic performance as the vtir s80 needs to suck a big one.
New rims approx 1.2k
Descent Tires $600ish

the left over $700, i would look into getting the car up to date, vrs kit diy? new cv boots? shift boots? maybe new shocks and springs? whatever needs doing that's normally over looked tie rods etc etc, piston rings if yours is burning oil.

TBH, not being a dick. $3.5k is not alot of money when it comes to playing with cars.


intake manifold from the c7 is also really good bang for buck!

if you are going to work the motor, all things from c7 stock will fit, cams, cam gears, valve springs, retainers, pistons, cranks etc etc, if your looking to build on a budget.

[Daveho1]

With 3.5k,

the left over $700, i would look into getting the car up to date, vrs kit diy? new cv boots? shift boots? maybe new shocks and springs? whatever needs doing that's normally over looked tie rods etc etc, piston rings if yours is burning oil.
really...shift boots and a vrs kit.....
TBH, not being a dick. $3.5k is not alot of money when it comes to playing with cars.
depends i b swaped my eg for that and made a massive diffrence


intake manifold from the c7 is also really good bang for buck!
dosnt fit on a c2 head...

if you are going to work the motor, all things from c7 stock will fit, cams, cam gears, valve springs, retainers, pistons, cranks etc etc, if your looking to build on a budget.
not worth the effort of swaping in something only a little better, buy something thats a significant improvment


....yeah

[u mad?]

grouce thread mateys

[Super-DA9]

Omg.. Where to start..?


With 3.5k,

B16 gearbox will do you wonders for approx 1k (this should be 100% to get, as you already got lighter fly and heavy duty clutch i presume) This will get epic performance as the vtir s80 needs to suck a big one.

B16 gearbox for $1k?? These are meant to be a cheaper alternative to the ITR gearbox, I would expect around $500-$600 at the most :/


New rims approx 1.2k
Descent Tires $600ish

Even though it would be worthwhile expenditure, This has nothing to do with swapping an ITR engine or building a B18C2.


the left over $700, i would look into getting the car up to date, vrs kit diy? new cv boots? shift boots? maybe new shocks and springs? whatever needs doing that's normally over looked tie rods etc etc, piston rings if yours is burning oil.

Not sure what you mean by shift boots here, but in regards to the piston rings, you can't really just 'change them'. Most of the engine needs to be disassembled and the bearings need to be changed, the cylinders need honing, plus new seals/gaskets for anything you had to remove. If you were paying someone to do this it would cost more than $700 by itself. The other thing to consider is that if you have disassembled the entire engine, is it really worth only changing the rings? This would be the absolute BEST chance to get performance worth paying for by using better internals.


TBH, not being a dick. $3.5k is not alot of money when it comes to playing with cars.

I see your point, but $3500 is sufficient to build the engine head with cams, valvesprings, retainers, guides, seals and machining/5 angle valve seat cut. This will exceed the stock output of the B18C7 with ease.


intake manifold from the c7 is also really good bang for buck!

As Dave mentioned, this does NOT fit B18C2 head. That's what the Skunk2/Blox manifold is for.


if you are going to work the motor, all things from c7 stock will fit, cams, cam gears, valve springs, retainers, pistons, cranks etc etc, if your looking to build on a budget.

I have to agree with Dave here, in the end you're basically swapping in a B18C7, and still only seeing a light improvement comparatively to building up the C2 to be better.


a B16 conversion might cost you $1-$1.5k if you pay someone to do it, or less if you do it yourself.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but does this mean a B16 gearbox swap? in which case I say again, where are these $1-1.5k figures coming from? That's ITR gearbox money! haha

Ok I don't want to come off sounding like a dick or anything, but some of this is not the best advice, and a little unrealistic. I think I read somewhere suggesting changing to lighter weight wheels for more power-to-ground. This is not a BAD idea, but it's not going to make a difference to the power output, seriously.

[u mad?]

Swap the short ram out for a CAI and run 68mm throttle body and S2/Blox intake manifold. Bore the manifold's throttle opening out to 68mm to match the throttle. Drop in some decent cams (+valvesprings/retainers if required) and get it tuned by someone reputable, you should see some very nice performance.

easily best advice in thread.

easily.

take note op.

[mocchi]

the amount of mind fcuk here is

http://allen8r.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/MindBlown.gif

[tripleuse]

not the best advise here^^ IMHO

explain why.

[amant02]

Not to be rude,

Swear i have read somewhere that all honda b series is interchangeable, I was planning to buy a itr intake mani and put it in my b16a2. I have seen alota builds using this. Thought it would've been the same for the c2.

His on a budget, i just believe handling, brakes and the daily drivability should come before chasing any gains from the motor. Hence why i reckon rims and tires and he said he needs new tires.

also last time i checked a reconditioned b16 gearbox goes for 1k. What tell him to buy 2nd hand? We all know about b series box's weakness that comes with the k's. I have made the mistake of putting an s80 vtir gearbox in my em1 before, I know the s4c will give him the power delivery his after, without opening his motor.

Plus these are performance modifications. Dont forget he will need 1800 min for ecu + tune that alot from his budget already if he opens the motor.

Not trying to start a war or anything, just trying to explain myself.

its your money op you decide how u wanna use.

[MrJoeySan]

His on a budget, i just believe handling, brakes and the daily drive-ability should come before chasing any gains from the motor. Hence why i reckon rims and tires and he said he needs new tires.

I agree with this point, handling and being able to get power to the road is important.
I struggled to get anywhere with my EK - B18C7 as crappy old tyres that had plenty of tread but had gone hard meant spinning them up at most any RPM from the lights. I always had to crawl away. With such poor tyres and unable to get power down it was like the LSD didn't even exist. I don't even want to remember how it was in the wet to retype it here. Getting coilovers and stiffening the car up with bracing and adding a rear sway has made it feel so much more different from the rolly and boat like car it used to be.



also last time i checked a reconditioned b16 gearbox goes for 1k. What tell him to buy 2nd hand? We all know about b series box's weakness that comes with the k's. I have made the mistake of putting an s80 vtir gearbox in my em1 before, I know the s4c will give him the power delivery his after, without opening his motor.


$1k does sound over priced to me. I have managed to find and purchase a spare S80 N3E box in excellent condition for $900. I can only assume that the B16 box would be cheaper. But if it's refurbished and paying for labour to install it too I can see how the price can blow out. My spare N3E is sitting in the shed; ready to go if i break something after track days.


its your money op you decide how u wanna use.

This is true and something that I tell friends who want to"know" which direction to take with their car...

To the OP... It's YOUR car, YOU own it, YOU decide which way to go. There will always be people or haters telling you that you've done it wrong or you should have done it differently. Take what we say here with a grain of salt and do what you want to and roll with pride!

And finally ... POST PICS PLZ!!!!

[Baby Face]

GSR (VTiR) IM will not fit the other heads, all the heads are interchangeable but the IMs are not, i think its t do with the b18c2 having dual "plenums"? for better venturi effect.
so they will not bolt up.

for 3.5k couldnt you have your head ported and shaved (to increase comrpession a lil) and replace your head gasket, plus get the blox/skunk2 IM+TB for a "GSR"

[dougie_504]

amant02,

ITR IM fits B16A, but not the C2. Long time known fact. The Skunk2 IM for C2 is basically an ITR manifold with the appropriately shaped ports for the C2 head.


im thinking of going 4.9FD
cams and a hondata
if I can fit that in my 3.5k budget im currently looking around online

Hondata + Tune will set you back at least $1,100-1,200 together. You can fit the cams into your budget but not the 4.9FD. Take your pick I guess... My money would be on the 4.9FD or B16A box ($500-700 is the right price for a B16A box) both will cost you similar money.



GSR (VTiR) IM will not fit the other heads, all the heads are interchangeable but the IMs are not, i think its t do with the b18c2 having dual "plenums"? for better venturi effect.
so they will not bolt up.

for 3.5k couldnt you have your head ported and shaved (to increase comrpession a lil) and replace your head gasket, plus get the blox/skunk2 IM+TB for a "GSR"

I'd consider this but you need to be mindful of how much you take off the head with regard to V-to-V and V-P clearances. I've heard it's excellent for the B-series to take some off and bump the comp, really gets them going according to Craig. But this is somewhat labour-intensive and would probably lead to a full head rebuilt with the porting etc. IMO with a head you either go the whole way or don't bother. Full valvetrain and cams, porting etc, VRS, proper machining or just don't waste your time and money.

[amant02]

Guess learn new things everyday.

I truly do believe the gearbox + tires and rims will give OP the best bang for buck performance with dollars left over in his pocket.

[dougie_504]

Lightweight rims year, maybe save a few KG.

Tyres should be a priority for everybody before anything else.

[Daveho1]

following the same logic then the same gains could be made by just getting decent tires and striping the interior and saving money on the wheels. honestly if the total budget was 3.5k firm and you where never gonna do anything elce i would be looking for second hand supercharger, tune and tires.
but that wont give you a well rounded car...

[PHO]

two bottles of nitrous, big ones

[dougie_504]

Yeah I'd just go a cheap turbo setup TBH.

[Daveho1]

now that ive wrote that i would prolly actually would spend the money on suspension...tbh