2008-2009 Civic FD2 Type R conversion

[EJ1]

Dear Ozhonda community,

After years and years of contemplating what Honda I should invest in I've come to a brick wall in my decisions.

Currently own 2 cars (Toyota Chaser JZX100 MT and Diahatsu charade)

Original decision was to buy an EM1 years ago and boost it but that idea soon died out as soon as I realised turbocharging Honda's kills their heart and soul. An NA Honda is what they're all about.... Response and handling.

After deciding the boosted EM1 was a bad idea I was contemplating the NA route with a K swap. Either EM1 or DC2 type R are my current idea's. A few months ago I was intending to head to NZ to buy an FD2 type R but I cannot seem to find anyone willing to move there with me for a year to qualify for the personal import scheme.

So now I'm stuck in the predicament of purchasing either an EM1 or DC2R which would both receive a JDM K20A swap. Another thought which has recently came across as a good idea was to buy an FD2 civic and do the type R conversion. (motor, interior and exterior)

My question is which model out of all the Civic FD's would be the most suitable and straight forwards for the type R conversion, What differences are there in the chassis of an FD civic (vti,sport,vti-l ect) sold here as opposed to the FD2 type R civic. (ie more rigid chassis, different suspension setup mcpherson strut/double wishbone ect), Will the engine bolt in to the existing engine mount supports when the time comes for the K20A to be put into it, What parts are needed for this conversion mechanically wise. Any other information I've left out which you may feel the need to answer please feel free too.

Cannot seem to find any FD2 Type R civic K20A motors around anywhere which I didn't think it would be easy to find as there aren't many around that have been written off.

If I were to go the FD2R path I would have to sell both of my 2 cars to fund the FD2R conversion as I know it would cost in excess of 10k.

If I were to got the EM1 or DC2R path I'd be selling the Diahatsu and keeping my JZX100 for a weekend cruiser where as the EM1/DC2 would be my dedicated daily and hills car.

I need some input from members on here any help would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards Cristos.

[integraR]

civic fd2 australian sports model uses k20 (the lower performance one)

[EJ1]

Yeah I'm familiar with the motor they have (K20AZ2) I believe.

[Honda_FD]

Any Sports FD and FD2 will make it a lot easier. Because it has a K frame for the 2.0L Engine
You can either get a JDM K20 from EP3 and DC5 or Buy the K20 from an FN2R
Since the FN2R has electronic throttle and all that jibber jabber makes it easier for a swap.
Because you can just put the head and computer in and it'll work straight away.
Or if you have the money do a complete swap and get the extra power.

[EJ1]

What about the vti fd2? Assuming the installation would be a bit more difficult to convert from the R18...

Have sourced a brand new fd2 type r engine which is made to order by spoon for around $6,700.

If I were to buy the fd sports for example can I make use of the exhaust manifold, gearbox, driveshafts, inlet manifold and various other components temporarily?

The fd2 k20a motor built to order is manufactured as a short motor I believe. Will also be looking at fd2r gearboxes for the conversion.

[xenonkuraz]

VTI/VTIL = FD1
SPORT = FD2

I would choose the FD1 frame if I was to do an FD2R conversion;

- body shape would be true to the type R (no side mirror indicators and sunroof) and therefore more lightweight
- cost less to get your frame, as you are going to remove the engine anyway

Ps fd1 (r18) vs fd2(au) k20z2

[Honda_FD]

VTI/VTIL = FD1
SPORT = FD2

I would choose the FD1 frame if I was to do an FD2R conversion;

- body shape would be true to the type R (no side mirror indicators and sunroof) and therefore more lightweight
- cost less to get your frame, as you are going to remove the engine anyway

Ps fd1 (r18) vs fd2(au) k20z2

I thought FD1 was 2006-2008
and FD2 was 2009-2011 - With the facelift

Not the engine.. Was I wrong this whole time? lol

[EJ1]

Didn't the FD2 sport come without a sunroof option and without the mirror indicator option? I would have thought the sport would have been better for the conversion... I don't mind the mirror indicators but a sunroof wouldn't suit the conversion nor would it suit my driving needs.

Hence Honda Civic "FD2" type r. Not FD1 type R. The FD2 type R is the facelifted model right?

Thought the VTI was also an FD2 chassis? Guess I hadn't looked into it enough.

I was contemplating buying the VTI for the price until I thought the FD sport would have made a better candidate. Maybe the VTI is still the best option I have?

[curtis265]

I thought FD1 was 2006-2008
and FD2 was 2009-2011 - With the facelift

Not the engine.. Was I wrong this whole time? lol

yes, yes you were.

[curtis265]

FD1 is for the R18A engine
FD2 comes with the k20Z2

that's all it is iiirc, the chassis are more or less the same (apart from the subframe)

the FD2R has a lot more spot welds and all that on the chassis i think

[EJ1]

So the FD1 subframe is different as opposed to the FD2?

Does anyone know if they're interchangeable assuming if I did fit the K20A I'd need the FD2 subframe correct...

Yeah I believe you're right I read somewhere that there is an increased number spot welds on the chassis, Any other useful information anyone can provide me? All this information is really helping right now and I do appreciate it highly.

[curtis265]

Don't quote me on the subframe bit - not 100% sure there either

[stevo1210]

I read somewhere that the FD2 Type R has some sections where instead of being "spot welded", its glued together to save weight while having the same stregth as a "welded frame".

[DakDak]

1. Buy a AUDM FD2
2. Buy a nice FD2R from Japan
3. Import as a wreck
4. ???????
5. Profit

[ogen]

AUDM FD2 and JDM FD2R frames are different I think. FD2R is much more reinforced, more welds etc, so if you did do said engine swap, it won't handle the same.

[jprak]

wouldnt be the same at all.

i would get FD1 over FD2 JUST to pass the airbag sensor as VTI base model doesnt have side airbags while FD2 has them.
backseats you will need the rear shelf parcel off the FD2R if ya want the type R back seats.
door trims just black with leather arm rest.

tyre king had a wreck FD2R sold the engine and all straight away but has some parts left. (front end conversion/wider fenders,front bumper,headlights,grille) unsure what you might have to do to put it on the AUS models.

[DakDak]

AUDM FD2 and JDM FD2R frames are different I think. FD2R is much more reinforced, more welds etc, so if you did do said engine swap, it won't handle the same.

They are different. But once you strip both cars and compare. You pretty much know what and where weld.

[EJ1]

The only thing I'm really concerned about it what parts are needed for the motor conversion from r18-fd2r k20a and the difficulty of the conversion... If someone could find a tutorial or information that would be fantastic!

[lolmclol]

@OP

You should try and get in contact with this person.

http://forum.jdmstyletuning.com/showthread.php?40451-K-Swaped-FD-Civic&

http://gripshiftslide.com/2012/01/11/double-ks-problems/

[EJ1]

Thanks heaps trying to get in contact with him as we speak!

[kikimushroom]

should ask this guy aswell http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?28175-EGB
pretty sure hes the one with the white k24 fd

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?69309-Your-Mods-To-2006-2011-FD-Civics&p=3682442

more info about his car: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?69309-Your-Mods-To-2006-2011-FD-Civics&p=3680404#post3680404

[EJ1]

Thanks again for the information guys you've all been extremely helpful although this is only the icing of the cake!

Looking at this brand new made to order spoon crate motor at the moment. The FD2R variant is the one I'm contemplating mating with the FD1 VTI as I believe this will be the easiest and will provide me with a good satisfied feel for the FD2R if I head down the path until I get around making and buying chassis reinforcements and bracing. Making the VTI handle as well as the FD2R will be the next step on the list after the motor is mated and running.

http://www.nengun.com/spoon/complete-engine

I believe this is just the bare block and nothing else. Need to write up a parts and pricing list so I can start calculating what it's going to cost me and what I actually have to spend.

If anyone could provide me with some parts needed for the conversion I'd appreciate that highly and I could possibly start my price list. At this stage looking at the bare essentials for what I need to get this motor up and running into the car so I can get it on the road and driving. No interior or exterior pieces as the civic I'm looking at currently has a mugen RR kit on it. Will obviously be looking into interior pieces later down the track.

All labour will be carried out by myself and will not be taking it to get installed, A tune will be the only time the car goes to a mechanic for something which is out of my hands and I have no concept/understanding of performing myself.

Best regards and looking forwards to your responses.

[Adam_NA]

I'm looking at doing pretty much the same thing atm, only using an EP3 as the mechanical donor, and trying to decide between using an EU (aside from changing one mount, everything from the EP3 should swap in, engine/transmission/suspension/brakes, so using all stock Type R stuff along with the engine should make getting it through Regency easier), an FD1 (lighter than EU, cheaper than FD2, doesn't have sunroof or poxy tan leather, but may not be able to use the suspension, though the brakes should work, might be slightly harder to get legal) or an FD2 (already has a K20 so should just need engine number inspected).

I believe that the EP3 was seam welded, so I imagine the FD2R's would have been treated similarly, and thats something that I definitely can't do myself (or at least wouldn't be comfortable doing), so if I wanted it done I think I'd need to strip the shell and have someone else do it.

It might be easier for you to find an EP3 halfcut maybe, that way you should get the box and LSD and some better brakes (though not as good as FD2R's had) plus the matching loom. Its slightly down on power compared to a real FD2R engine but I don't think you'd notice the difference given you can't really jump in an FD2R to compare anyway. If you can find a crashed one you might even get the Recaros (yes, the FD2R didn't have them but you wouldn't say no would you :p)

I haven't looked at any FD's yet but I sat in an EU on Friday, the interior is horrible compared to what the EP3's had, and from photos the FD's look to have much nicer plastics. For me it might come down to how much difference there is in headroom between the two shapes (which makes the FD2 more unlikely for me as the sunroof is likely to drop the headliner down even more when the roofline is lower than the hatchback EU. I just wish they'd sold FD2's here with cloth interior and no sunroof, that would make it so much easier to choose

[EJ1]

I think you're on the right track with converting the FD like myself, Both mine and yours should be interesting builds. Really hoping the suspension is universal as I don't see any problem with it not being interchangable.

Euro type R (FN2R) is horrible... Not one person I know have said anything good about them. Don't know what went through Honda's minds when they brought back the live axel and they removed the IRS. The FN2R could have been a lot better in my opinion but they went wrong in so many places and it all boiled down to budget I'm going to have to say.

All I really need now is a parts list to get the motor in the car and running so just the bare essentials. Going to look at an FD1 tomorrow and if all looks well I'll be placing a deposit on it.

I should have close to 20k give or take for the conversion. 6,700 for the motor and if I'm lucky I could probably source and fd2r box for a few thousand hopefully not much more. Brakes and chassis reinforcement and aftermarket bracing will be all done in time as well. They didn't have the recaro bucket seats because they broke off their contact with recaro from what I was reading and started to manufacturer their own seats for the FD2R and upwards.

I concur 100% with your statement the FN2R is horrible don't even know why they brought them to Australia also. Guess it was down to budget as per usual though and because the FD chassis was already manufactured and sold to the Australian public in a non type r variant.

[Adam_NA]

Oh, I meant EU1, not the later FN2R style EU

[xenonkuraz]

Fd2rs did have recaros....

[Adam_NA]

The Mugen RR might have but the FD2R had the red and black heavily bolstered Honda seats

[EJ1]

They lost their contract with recaro when the fd2r was built. If you don't believe me check out interior pictures of them. I'm almost certain the fd2r and mugen rr don't have recaros but rather honda upholstered and manufactured their own "recaro styled" bucket seats.

[curtis265]

honda make replica recaro

nice

[EJ1]

Haha not exactly replica's they have no name on them nor are they meant to be copies, It's their own design just reminds me of recaros haha. :)

[jprak]

FD2r seats the same style as FN2Rs. More confortable then Evo ones, **** I feel bad sitting in them

[EJ1]

You feel bad sitting in EVO bucket seats?

[EJ1]

I know it's not exactly related to the thread title but would anyone happen to know the differences between the FD1 VTI and the VTI-L?

[jprak]

LOL i meant i feel fat.

difference VTI and VTI-L

silver mold trim on door trims
6CD stack
side airbags for driver and passenger


thats all i can remember


would recommend VTI, better off not bothering with the airbag system when putting recaros in. thats why i got evo seats in my FD :)

[fsjk85]

+1 on FD1 frame, hydraulic power steering, no electronic turd

[EJ1]

Yeah went and checked out an FD1 today, Looks in good condition actually. 57,000km, full service history ect.

No accident history according to the dealer and revs, no odometer discrepancies and no finance owing on the car. The rear right quarter panel has been painted though because there was a tiny scrape up on the rear quarter from someone scratching it. The dealer showed me some photo's of the damage before it was fixed and it was only minor damage. Apart from that it needs 4 tyres and rear brake pads as they're around 20% depth thickness left. Clean interior, Paint condition was around 6.7-7/10 but would come up immaculate with a full 2 stage cut and polish which I can do myself. Has decent tyres on it so I know the owner wouldn't have cheaped out on tyres (turanza's). Could probably do with a full service too.

Perfect base to start my type r conversion I think. Tried lowballing him to 9,800 but he said 10,500 was his lowest. So I made my final offer of 10,250 and said if he doesn't accept I'm afraid I'll have to give it a miss.

He said he will contact me tomorrow so fingers crossed he accepts because this is a pretty good deal I'm getting I say. It's a black VTi-L...

[EJ1]

Where would be my best bet to source a quality plastic (not fibreglass) Mugen RR kit or Type R kit. I know MARS performance has them on ebay at the moment and I was contemplating going through them.

Bought a fair few parts through mars and very happy with the product although some members here on the forums have had some bad reviews from them so I'm not entirely sure.

[jprak]

if you're from melb or syd

i ordered mine through ontherunmotorsports, its in PP, fitment was good (will need 2 people to install)

[Adam_NA]

Hmm, I can't find a mount kit to put the mounting points on the conventional side of the engine bay for an EU1 (I guess I could try and cut the original ones out of the EP3 and see if they can be fitted in the EU1 but I don't know if you might end up with it out of alignment slightly

Starting to think an FD does make more sense even if they're more expensive and I can't use as many of the EP3 parts. Like EJ1, I'm thinking an FD1 is the way to do it, despite an FD2 just needing a simple engine number change since they'd just view it as one K20 being changed for another K20. At least the FD1 has the engine on the same side as the FD2, and stock FD2 parts are available, as well as aftermarket ones. I wonder if any Honda dealers get FD1's with shagged engines as trade-ins? That would be about the cheapest way to get one I think

[EJ1]

Picking one up tomorrow actually for an extremely good price. I'm considering myself very very lucky at this stage, Hopefully the R18 and it's drivetrain is worth reasonable money so I can put it towards my build funding.

[EJ1]

Plus by building an FD2R an FD2 sport chassis is a bad choice in my opinion. You have various features which it differs from the FD2R as well as a sunroof which will weaken it's structural integrity, After all this will be built for response and handling not just to look good. :)

Let the FD2R conversion commence I say!

[Adam_NA]

Any chance you can let me know roughly what you've managed to score it for after you've gotten it?

[Stevil]

Hey EJ1 goodluck on the build, I thought long and hard about it but chose the Boost option. FD2 subframes can be bought new from Honda for $600, otherwise any rearend wrecked FD2 sort will do. Not sure if you read this article but it give you a idea as to whats possible.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/features/0702_ht_spoon_honda_civic_type_r_sedan/viewall.html

Is the FD1 an auto or maual ur looking at ? as Im expecting to need another motor next year at some stage...

[EJ1]

Thanks Stevil,

Actually picked up an FD1 manual. Just waiting for my jzx100 to sell then I'm ordering a FD2R specific motor from spoon, Takes around 1 and a half months to be built brand new with no mileage.

[EJ1]

My current motor only has 57,000km with service history and books if it interests you more....

[Stevil]

Yeah def interested mate, plenty of wrecked fd1s around but the lower the km the better. My fd has been thrashed senseless at the track and I know whilst its still going strong I expect it will need to be replaced at some stage next year.

[EJ1]

What would an R18 long motor with drivetrain go for these days out of curiosity?

[Stevil]

Not much, a few wreckers indicated most end up being bought n shipped to africa, something like $1K for a motor/autobox. Been quoted similiar number as there aint much demand for the R18.