Quiet Cat-Back Exhaust

[nedkerry]

Hi all,
I'm in the market for an after-market cat back exhaust for my FD1, but I can't seem to get a consistent response about what to buy. However, I am after something that offers a performance improvement (by way of throttle response or horsepower), and is also very quiet.

I had a chat to a Midas and Mr Muffler store (I'm not calling out the specific store), and got different pieces of general advice:
Midas
-Go press-bend since it's only a 4-cylinder 1.8L (I thought mandrel bend was always recommended?)
-Go custom built as it's hard to find a cat back exhaust in Australia, without having to import
-Go one size up (i.e., if the stock FD1 pipes are 1.78", then go to 2")
-Expect performance increases of 5-7% (is he hustling me?)
-Fit a larger exhaust to make it more quiet (wouldn't that negate the benefits of the larger pipes?)

Mr Muffler
-Go mandrel-bend
-Go custom built as it's hard to find a cat back exhaust in Australia, without having to import

Another store in the Eastern suburbs (keeping their anonymity)
-Go custom built
-Don't go beyond 2.25" or I might risk something something (I can't remember the term he used, but it would pose a threat to my car in the long run). (what does he mean?)

I started by looking at the Magnaflows, but it's hard to gauge from videos how noisy/un-noisy those exhausts are.

I guess I'd like to know what the next size up is from the stock cat-back exhaust, recommended systems that are quiet, recommended garages I can speak to.

I'm just horribly confused right now :S
Any advice would be really helpful!

Thanks.

[NeedVtec]

Twin loop muffler is the way to go. Even with an exhaust don't expect to feel much difference in performance.

[DreadAngel]

Where are you located?

[duzy]

Firstly whats your location and budget? We can suggest a few good exhaust shops.

IMO, I'd go for a custom 2" or 2.25" mandrel bent mild steel exhaust, hi flow cat, one or two resonators and a twin loop/oval muffler or something restrictive.
Performance wise wouldn't be much, but it'll feel slightly better in the high rpm range.

I'd suggest pairing the exhaust with a good air filter setup with cold air feed and those electronic throttle controllers for better response.

[Daveho1]

dis guy is on the money^^ i just finished up my exhaust for my b18 eg and i went with a 2.5" mandrel bent system with 2 resonators and a rear muffler and even that isnt too loud imho but it depends on mufflers aswell as if you bo for a chambered or triflow etc etc it will all effect the end result so its hard to make a hard and fast recommendation.

[nedkerry]

Where are you located?

South-East suburbs of Victoria


Firstly whats your location and budget? We can suggest a few good exhaust shops.

IMO, I'd go for a custom 2" or 2.25" mandrel bent mild steel exhaust, hi flow cat, one or two resonators and a twin loop/oval muffler or something restrictive.
Performance wise wouldn't be much, but it'll feel slightly better in the high rpm range.

I'd suggest pairing the exhaust with a good air filter setup with cold air feed and those electronic throttle controllers for better response.

Budget-wise, $600-$800. Midas mentioned a ballpark figure of $900 for a mandrel-bend. I thought that was a bit expensive considering there are reputable brands for two-thirds of the price.
Performance wise, which RPM range? I got told over the phone I'd notice the difference between the 3-4K range. I wasn't sure whether to believe him.
I'm reluctant on a cold air/short ram intake after watching the MightyCarMods video which demonstrated no benefits in performance. However, I do have a throttle controller, throttle body spacer, and pulley kit on the way.


dis guy is on the money^^ i just finished up my exhaust for my b18 eg and i went with a 2.5" mandrel bent system with 2 resonators and a rear muffler and even that isnt too loud imho but it depends on mufflers aswell as if you bo for a chambered or triflow etc etc it will all effect the end result so its hard to make a hard and fast recommendation.

Can you notice any throttle or horsepower improvements in the 3000-5000RPM range?
Where did you buy your system?

From what I can gather from all of your posts, would I be correct in saying that there's a trade-off between noise and performance, and it's not possible to have both?

[Honda_FD]

My exchaust setup is a Varex Muffler (Has a butterfly valve to control the volume)
with the mid resonator removed and a Short Ram intake system.
When the exhaust is fully opened car sounds AWESOME! Like an actual JDM K20 but without the loud vtec crossover.
Fully closed is slightly louder than stock.

Power wise. No real performance upgrade but with the exhaust opened you can feel that its a lot smoother throughout the revs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBe7OZIRECg

[Chernoby1]

From what I can gather from all of your posts, would I be correct in saying that there's a trade-off between noise and performance, and it's not possible to have both?

Not possible within your budget*

What you are trying to do is what Honda wants to do... just think about how much money they can spend on designing the thing. Every manufacturer wants to add as much power with the smallest amount of NVH for the mid size / non sports cars.
Their restriction is mainly the cost of manufacturing many exhasuts, so they wont use fancy materials; which as you are doing a one-off are able to do... but using fancy materials = more cost :(

If you are willing to go somewhat louder, but not tooo loud, thats where things get epxensive again. Working it out therotically is not too difficult, however a 10mm difference in pipe length can get a dramitic difference im loudness (if someone has bothered to do sound wave analysis within the exhaust), so it requires fabrication and then testing and then more fabrication. i would guess that 90% of companies that make exhasuts (especially the japanese folk) are focused on putting that effort into getting more power, not more quite andthat limits your options of doing it off the shelf massively.

Id estimate ~$2k to get it done to what you want and keep loudness to a minimum but getting you a nicer note and potentially some extra (~5%) power.

[nedkerry]

I just gave Dande Exhaust a buzz and they gave a more comprehensive picture. They mentioned it would be best to go with an extractor, first, and then the cat back system would compliment it. They mentioned ~5% increase wasn't out of the equation. One size up was recommended. Benefits recognised in the 3-5K RPM range.
The ballpark figures (without seeing the car) were:
Extractor $650
New Cat Converter $300
Cat Back Exhaust $600
Total: $1550

So...extractors...any recommendations for an FD1, while I do some more research on the side? :P

[curtis265]

extractor? FD1 doesn't have extractors - the head's just got one exhaust port which goes straight into the cat.

IMO go for a mild steel mandrel bent exhaust catback. keep the stock cat.

and then use a good resonator and put a good muffler on it - twinloop if you want it quiet or a varex if you want ti adjustable.

i cannot recommend the varex enough for it's ability to switch between stock quiet and fully sick mode

[nedkerry]

My exchaust setup is a Varex Muffler (Has a butterfly valve to control the volume)
with the mid resonator removed and a Short Ram intake system.
When the exhaust is fully opened car sounds AWESOME! Like an actual JDM K20 but without the loud vtec crossover.
Fully closed is slightly louder than stock.

Power wise. No real performance upgrade but with the exhaust opened you can feel that its a lot smoother throughout the revs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBe7OZIRECg


extractor? FD1 doesn't have extractors - the head's just got one exhaust port which goes straight into the cat.

IMO go for a mild steel mandrel bent exhaust catback. keep the stock cat.

and then use a good resonator and put a good muffler on it - twinloop if you want it quiet or a varex if you want ti adjustable.

i cannot recommend the varex enough for it's ability to switch between stock quiet and fully sick mode

ah that would explain why i couldn't find anything on fd1 extractors -__-

lol i love the last sentence.
Varex seems very very tempting, as it can be controlled. How much did it cost to get the whole setup (muffler, remote control etc)? I read in another thread and the remote broke down? Was it painful getting it replaced?
The only thing is, I'm not going for sound, though, and if there's no gain from it, it goes against my initial objective.

Ok, I think I've got a clearer picture in my head of what I want now:
The upgrade to a mild steel mandrel bend cat back exhaust + resonator is a definite. I'm expecting a gain there.

The last part is the muffler.
Is there going to be a significant difference between selecting lets say, the Varex remote controller muffler, versus a Magnaflow performance muffler, versus a local muffler recommended by Mr Muffler/Midas?

[curtis265]

the muffler and remote cost me 450 posted to me iirc. Comes with all the wiring you need.

There will be ab it of a gain in responsiveness if you get the right sized exhaust - 2.25 will do.

the varex is a straight through muffler when open (no muffling) and then chambered when shut. in other words, there's minimal restriction when it's open

my advice - try driving someone's car with an exhaust setup and see if you like the gains. i definitely noticed somethinig when i put a 2.25 on the h22.

[nedkerry]

Thanks, curtis!
Can you link me the model you purchased and where you bought it from?

Last question for the Varex, I currently use my cigarette lighter to power my Satechi SoundFly View, so I can't plug the Varex controller in. However, if I had a cigarette lighter hub (something like this for example http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-Port-Socket-Car-Cigarette-Lighter-USB-Hub-Adaptor-Power-Socket-for-mobiles-MP3-/360660717852?pt=AU_TabletAccessories&hash=item53f90dd11c&_uhb=1), would I be able to power both my SoundFly and Varex Controller?

[curtis265]

you can hardwire it to the back of the back of the ciggy lighter - that's how i did mine.

keeps it neat as

Bought it off a dodgy trader on t his site who's now gone... Try calling those xforce dealers nearby, they might be able to get you a decent package deal

if you can get the whole catback inclusive of muffler supplied and fitted for ~600-700 you're laughing

[nedkerry]

you can hardwire it to the back of the back of the ciggy lighter - that's how i did mine.

keeps it neat as

Bought it off a dodgy trader on t his site who's now gone... Try calling those xforce dealers nearby, they might be able to get you a decent package deal

if you can get the whole catback inclusive of muffler supplied and fitted for ~600-700 you're laughing

Yeah, looks like I'll have to readjust my budget expectations, which is fine.
The guys down at Dande Exhaust sounded like they could do a pretty decent price with for the cat back *fingers crossed*

Thanks for all your help, mate! Really appreciate it.

[curtis265]

oh and the cannons and stuff are cheaper btw, the twintip is expensive!

[Honda_FD]

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to curtis265 again.

Varex Mufflers range from $300 ~ $600.
My muffler was $500 fitted with the control module wired up. Its bit expensive but my Insurance paid for it lol So didnt bother me.
The Cannon ones start at $300. But IMO the oval muffler looks a lot better especially on the FD Cause the back end is very plain and boring.
Plus, Because my muffler is oval it has more room to suppress the noise. As of the cannon it has limited space. Plus all that bling bling is a bonus

My one is 2.5" inlet with a 3" tip

[nedkerry]

Lol I'm trying to give more rep to the both of you but also need to spread it around first.

Thanks, Honda_FD. I was thinking oval, too. Not a fan of cannons. Which model did you buy and where did you get it installed?

[nedkerry]

>__<
After doing a bit of googling, it turns out that apparently Varex mufflers are illegal in all states of Australia, due to the fact that you can modify the volume of the muffler on the fly. Sounds pretty stupid to me.
I think I might go with a twin loop muffler.

[Tai]

Why not just keep it stock so you don't have to go through all these headaches.

Or get an FD2R stock one.

[Chernoby1]

>__<
After doing a bit of googling, it turns out that apparently Varex mufflers are illegal in all states of Australia, due to the fact that you can modify the volume of the muffler on the fly. Sounds pretty stupid to me.
I think I might go with a twin loop muffler.

I think youll find anything that can be used to easily vary anything emission related will be illegal.


Why not just keep it stock so you don't have to go through all these headaches.

Or get an FD2R stock one.

FD2R has different engine.

[Tai]

You can modify it to fit.


I think youll find anything that can be used to easily vary anything emission related will be illegal.



FD2R has different engine.

[nedkerry]

Why not just keep it stock so you don't have to go through all these headaches.

Or get an FD2R stock one.

That could be a possibility, too (keeping it stock).
I've only been doing a lot of reading/homework at the moment. I guess, until I pop down to the shop and listen to a few more exhausts, I'll get a better idea of the noise.

[jprak]

or buy my FD2R Js exhaust 70RS with extension needed :D fits both FD1/2

[curtis265]

if a car flies past witha cannon and it's dead silent, police become suss.

that's if they even notice

[Chernoby1]

You can modify it to fit.

Im probably the only fool still stuck on thinking about the the headers lol.


Also op:
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_113034/article.html

Autospeed has great infooooos

[Honda_FD]

Lol I'm trying to give more rep to the both of you but also need to spread it around first.

Thanks, Honda_FD. I was thinking oval, too. Not a fan of cannons. Which model did you buy and where did you get it installed?

I got my at TruFlow in Deerpark. He distributes for Varex/xForce and Redback exhausts.

My ones VMK10-250. Go on the Varex website and have a browse. Mines nice but the tip could be better. its just a straight tip

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z236/crazyazn312/VarexVMK10-250.png

[dougie_504]

Firstly whats your location and budget? We can suggest a few good exhaust shops.

IMO, I'd go for a custom 2" or 2.25" mandrel bent mild steel exhaust, hi flow cat, one or two resonators and a twin loop/oval muffler or something restrictive.
Performance wise wouldn't be much, but it'll feel slightly better in the high rpm range.

I'd suggest pairing the exhaust with a good air filter setup with cold air feed and those electronic throttle controllers for better response.

I like this idea but definitely 2.25". Honestly don't bother with a 2".

[u mad?]

My exchaust setup is a Varex Muffler (Has a butterfly valve to control the volume)
with the mid resonator removed and a Short Ram intake system.
When the exhaust is fully opened car sounds AWESOME! Like an actual JDM K20 but without the loud vtec crossover.
Fully closed is slightly louder than stock.

Power wise. No real performance upgrade but with the exhaust opened you can feel that its a lot smoother throughout the revs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBe7OZIRECg

that sound pretty good actually

[NeedVtec]

Don't need to spend heaps, chop off that mid resonator and weld a muffler on. Sounds good, cost me 100 including the xforce twinloop

[Honda_FD]

Don't need to spend heaps, chop off that mid resonator and weld a muffler on. Sounds good, cost me 100 including the xforce twinloop

Did you put a muffler in or did you chop it off and put a straight pipe, Like me lol
I still haven't heard your car!

[NeedVtec]

Straight pipe instead of resonator/muffler. Did you hear it when we drove to he charity meet?

[Honda_FD]

Straight pipe instead of resonator/muffler. Did you hear it when we drove to he charity meet?

I didnt go. My brother went with the car though.
Dont like going meets.

[Daveho1]

Dont like going meets.

say what?

[DreadAngel]

OP, it would be ideal to check out cars both irl and Youtube to gain an idea what you consider to be quiet and acceptable.

For example for me:
NB - Might not apply to FD1, this is based on my experience across older models of Hondas
NB - Some of the exhaust I've experienced

Quiet
Mugen Twinloop [Muffler]
Fujitsubo Legalis R [Muffler]

Mild
Fujitsubo RM01A [Cannon]
* Depending on Car
Fujitsubo Super Legalis-R [Muffer]
Spoon Street Muffler [Muffler]
Kakimoto-R [Muffler]

Moderate
Toda High Power [Cannon]
Fujitsubo RM01A [Cannon]
* Depending on Car
Fujitsubo Power Getter [Cannon]
HKS Silent Hi-Power

Loud
Apex'i N1 Revo [Cannon]
* JASMA 98 Approved
Buddyclub Spec III/IV [Cannon]
Kakimoto Fullmega N1 +Rev
* JASMA 98 Approved
Spoon N1 [Cannon]

GTFO
Apex'i N1
* Not JASMA Approved
Kakimoto Fullmega N1 2000 [Cannon]
Kakimoto GT1 0Z Racing [Cannon]

These are just some example of exhaust you could base your own system on. Some research on exhaust will help you decide what size, material, sections [Resonators, Muffler, Cannon] and specs you need. You might want to check out something like HKS ES Premium, Mugen Twinloop and Honda Type R exhaust. They may have a more complex design but might give you some inspiration to give you power, noise and comfort without needed a variable system like the X-Force Varex :) You might not apply this to your FD but it'll help you with other cars in the future :)

[dougie_504]

Power Getter is awesome IMO. Perfect combination of tone and noise etc. Looks great.

[DreadAngel]

Power Getter is awesome IMO. Perfect combination of tone and noise etc. Looks great.

This =D

I had one for several years, its like the RM01A in many respects!!!

[nedkerry]

OP, it would be ideal to check out cars both irl and Youtube to gain an idea what you consider to be quiet and acceptable.

For example for me:
NB - Might not apply to FD1, this is based on my experience across older models of Hondas
NB - Some of the exhaust I've experienced

Quiet
Mugen Twinloop [Muffler]
Fujitsubo Legalis R [Muffler]

Mild
Fujitsubo RM01A [Cannon]
* Depending on Car
Fujitsubo Super Legalis-R [Muffer]
Spoon Street Muffler [Muffler]
Kakimoto-R [Muffler]

Moderate
Toda High Power [Cannon]
Fujitsubo RM01A [Cannon]
* Depending on Car
Fujitsubo Power Getter [Cannon]
HKS Silent Hi-Power

Loud
Apex'i N1 Revo [Cannon]
* JASMA 98 Approved
Buddyclub Spec III/IV [Cannon]
Kakimoto Fullmega N1 +Rev
* JASMA 98 Approved
Spoon N1 [Cannon]

GTFO
Apex'i N1
* Not JASMA Approved
Kakimoto Fullmega N1 2000 [Cannon]
Kakimoto GT1 0Z Racing [Cannon]

These are just some example of exhaust you could base your own system on. Some research on exhaust will help you decide what size, material, sections [Resonators, Muffler, Cannon] and specs you need. You might want to check out something like HKS ES Premium, Mugen Twinloop and Honda Type R exhaust. They may have a more complex design but might give you some inspiration to give you power, noise and comfort without needed a variable system like the X-Force Varex :) You might not apply this to your FD but it'll help you with other cars in the future :)

Thanks for the recommendations, DreadAngel!
I'll have a look at the Quiet and Mild ones. I've yet to organise a time with any exhaust/muffler guys -__- been busy with other stuff.

[Honda_FD]

Thanks for the recommendations, DreadAngel!
I'll have a look at the Quiet and Mild ones. I've yet to organise a time with any exhaust/muffler guys -__- been busy with other stuff.

If you go TrueFlow. They let you try their products before you purchase it.
Maybe talk to them and try different mufflers and designs