Heel toe technique

[victtorz]

Hi all, still new to the technique and havent mastered it all but i was just wondering why its so easy for me to heel toe in older cars such as eg and dc2's but in ep3 and dc5's i find it impossible?
is there a way i can make heel toe easier in a dc5? does anyone else have this problem?

Thanks

[hoaanguyen]

new car uses electronic throttle (drive by wire), different response to older car using throttle cable

[PHO]

Aren't most K20 cable? EP3R and DC5R are definitely cable. Not sure about the base models.

Drove an EP3R and revmatching/heeltoe was perfect.

[bennjamin]

new car uses electronic throttle (drive by wire), different response to older car using throttle cable

Both EP3r and dc5 use conventional throttle cable to throttle body - just like "old cars".
Your argument is invalid

OP perhaps the reason is that the k20a is a less responsive motor than some
Previous B series ( like b16a or b18c7's) plus the extra weight of the vehicle that it comes standard in- this reduces the "feel"

[curtis265]

do they perhaps have heavier flywheels?

[victtorz]

I'm not sure if it's just me but perhaps it's the pedals? is it possible to position the pedals so it's exactly like an eg/dc2. Cause I can effortlessly heel toe in eg and dc2s maybe shoe size matters? I'm a US 7 if that helps lmao

[Normz]

The DC5 is probably one of the easiest vehicles to heel and toe in. Examine your seating position and the position of your right foot. There is a reason why the DC5 accelerator pedal runs quite long and that is to make it easier to perform such maneuver. Also, some people prefer to just slide the edge of their right foot unto the accelerator in the DC5 when braking. If you continue to have troubles with it, i'd suggest you seek some professional help through instructors and more seat time.

[UNA91]

Maybe your throttle cable has to much slack in it. Try adjusting it tighter, plenty of tutorials on Google, just make sure you don't do it too tight the the butterfly stays open. When I adjusted mine the response was heaps better to it might take some time to get used to a more "touchy" pedal.

Mugen pedals help too since then accelerator has a lil part sticking out exactly for this purpose.

[amant02]

I found it abit harder to get it right in my dc5, it was def easier in my old eg and em1's. But then again i always bent the pedals in the eg and em1. Dont wanna do it to a type R lol.

[EKVTIR-T]

yeah adjust the petals and maybe buy a racing shoe

[charliebrown]

Razo gas pedal

adjustable to make fatter and stick out more. easily make it sit 1 inch closer in line

dis wun goot

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTe6dOiE0MzUFHbBVoWIQOsAytlvnqxg Kvgwgd1M95oXP8nNDsg

[Baby Face]

i found it easy to H-T in my EG too but the S2000 for some reason feels harder i think because the inside of the cabin is narrower feeling i feel cramped to put my foot sideways and also the pedals are deeper in it feels awkward like more of a whole body exercise to do the maneuver.

but maybe try Ball of foot and side of foot technique i find that easy in mine. also my cable is a lil loose so that definitely doesnt help.

[Baby Face]

update:

i tightened up my cable. and made sure i could reach WOT without the pedal bottoming out first.
the pedal has about 2-3 mm of play before revving the engine up.
and now heal toe is a breeze and can be done so fast engine revs just fling up.

[RenzokukenJ]

update:

i tightened up my cable. and made sure i could reach WOT without the pedal bottoming out first.
the pedal has about 2-3 mm of play before revving the engine up.
and now heal toe is a breeze and can be done so fast engine revs just fling up.

I found it okay to heel toe bbf

How big are your shoes?

[bennjamin]

update:

i tightened up my cable. and made sure i could reach WOT without the pedal bottoming out first.
the pedal has about 2-3 mm of play before revving the engine up.
and now heal toe is a breeze and can be done so fast engine revs just fling up.

Great to see it's better for you





An idea on how to get better at heel toe / rev matching ( and driving in general) is experience more types of manual vehicles. This will strengthen your left and right legs and basically give you
More accuracy and control.
I drive trucks , motorbikes as well as a variety of manual cars and IMO that's the key to better driver overall. Not time behind the wheel but experience and variety :0)

[PHO]

Bengammin senna

[RenzokukenJ]

Great to see it's better for you





An idea on how to get better at heel toe / rev matching ( and driving in general) is experience more types of manual vehicles. This will strengthen your left and right legs and basically give you
More accuracy and control.
I drive trucks , motorbikes as well as a variety of manual cars and IMO that's the key to better driver overall. Not time behind the wheel but experience and variety :0)

I definitely try and drive as many manual cars as I can, and it definitely has helped me learn how to drive them better, as well as heel-toe

[DreadAngel]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bennjamin again.

[Symphorced]

Heel toe on the streets. Because race car.

[DreadAngel]

Heel toe on the streets. Because race car.

Because makes you look as big of a douche as someone with launch control at the lights holding revs... So they can merge before end of lane...

[Chernoby1]

Because makes you look as big of a douche as someone with launch control at the lights holding revs... So they can merge before end of lane...

A) Pfft heel toe all day cause you double clutch to save synchros.
B) Need dat launch control when you got no power.

[DreadAngel]

My bad, forgot that part, not double clutching when I should've...

[Chernoby1]

Frogot about reason c) Got no low down power so if you dont rev match car will bog and nearly stall. #RaceCarOnStreet

[DreadAngel]

A violent clutch kick should help there :p

[Chernoby1]

And break gearboxes coz tyres stronger than metal! Luckily for me though, i put on a shitty clutch that will spin free =D

[DreadAngel]

QFT!!!

This guy noes, A+, will buy from again!

[u mad?]

yep benny so true, diff variety .

even turbo diesel utes lol, dat laggy ass rev match.

[cbauto]

Heel toe on the streets. Because race car.

Because mechanical sympathy.


I've seen a fair few noobs downshifting without throttle blip. I feel for the car, having such a Shit driving owner.

[u mad?]

I dont even think twice now, every car i get in

Must be good for clutch to, drive-train ect. Plus dat silky smooth down shift, cant even tell you changed down a gear minus the sound.

[Symphorced]

Because mechanical sympathy.


I've seen a fair few noobs downshifting without throttle blip. I feel for the car, having such a Shit driving owner.

Don't get me wrong, rev matching makes complete sense to me.

However, heel toe does not, as you'd have to be stepping on the brakes quite hard to be performing it correctly and something that's only necessary if you're late braking. Something that should be left for the track and not on the roads.

[cbauto]

Don't get me wrong, rev matching makes complete sense to me.

However, heel toe does not, as you'd have to be stepping on the brakes quite hard to be performing it correctly and something that's only necessary if you're late braking. Something that should be left for the track and not on the roads.

You don't have to have your right toe smashed on the brake pedal for the procedure called heal toe.


You can brake lightly and blip with your heal too my friend.


Maybe your right foot isn't articulate enough to perform heal toe at all braking levels. Be it hard or soft.

[RenzokukenJ]

Don't get me wrong, rev matching makes complete sense to me.

However, heel toe does not, as you'd have to be stepping on the brakes quite hard to be performing it correctly and something that's only necessary if you're late braking. Something that should be left for the track and not on the roads.

What about when you are slowing down at the lights?

[cbauto]

I guess you could take you foot off the brake and blip

But that's not smooth daily driving is it now.

[Baby Face]

the reason i couldnt heal toe before renzo was because of throttle cable slack, i had to lower the heel too far to hit the accelerator enough to bring up the revs.

s2000 is easy to do the manuever can even BOF SOF on the stock pedals.

what i really want to accomplish is left foot braking, havent done it since my eg, but in the S if u stuff up and push too hard all that weight flies forward and the rear end snaps out toooo easy.

[RenzokukenJ]

the reason i couldnt heal toe before renzo was because of throttle cable slack, i had to lower the heel too far to hit the accelerator enough to bring up the revs.

s2000 is easy to do the manuever can even BOF SOF on the stock pedals.

what i really want to accomplish is left foot braking, havent done it since my eg, but in the S if u stuff up and push too hard all that weight flies forward and the rear end snaps out toooo easy.

Hahaha true man, but I find the brake pedal too stiff, so you are pushing the clutch in way too far, and have to manuvure your foot on a odd angle, better to use right foot to blip the acceleration pedal as well as braking

How much do you push the pedal for Wot?

[mocchi]

heal.

ok.

[DreadAngel]

Don't get me wrong, rev matching makes complete sense to me.

However, heel toe does not, as you'd have to be stepping on the brakes quite hard to be performing it correctly and something that's only necessary if you're late braking. Something that should be left for the track and not on the roads.

Sooooo with you there... Late braking into double lane roundabout and heel toe practice don't mix...


You don't have to have your right toe smashed on the brake pedal for the procedure called heal toe.

You can brake lightly and blip with your heal too my friend.

Maybe your right foot isn't articulate enough to perform heal toe at all braking levels. Be it hard or soft.

Guess so... I usually brake then come off it completely blip the throttle and downshift then back on brake, sounds kinda awkward to describe in words... But in practice for daily, it works fine and my syncros love me for it. I think that's what Symphorced might be suggesting to do instead?

[curtis265]

Because mechanical sympathy.


I've seen a fair few noobs downshifting without throttle blip. I feel for the car, having such a Shit driving owner.

oh gawd it shits me when i sit in peoples cars and they do that

QQ

What about when you are slowing down at the lights?

then what's wrong with leaving it in neutral and braking


the reason i couldnt heal toe before renzo was because of throttle cable slack, i had to lower the heel too far to hit the accelerator enough to bring up the revs.

s2000 is easy to do the manuever can even BOF SOF on the stock pedals.

what i really want to accomplish is left foot braking, havent done it since my eg, but in the S if u stuff up and push too hard all that weight flies forward and the rear end snaps out toooo easy.i think i got the hang of this in the lude

got the tail sliding a lot aroudn tight bends

made me feel expert

[RenzokukenJ]

oh gawd it shits me when i sit in peoples cars and they do that

QQ


then what's wrong with leaving it in neutral and braking

i think i got the hang of this in the lude

got the tail sliding a lot aroudn tight bends

made me feel expert

I brake with gears

W2fite?

Fuk neutral and brake, no feels

[amant02]

I hardly use heel and toe,

But when I do, Its so you come out of the corner in the power band + it allows me to enter a corner at a higher speed then I normally would, insta power at the apex of the turn. Ever sat around a corner in vtec? This is how u do it (some pro drivers are gonna gimme shit for this).

Sure it adds stress on the brakes and rotors, but it gives me a thrill of a lifetime. I mod/service the car accordingly.

Do your pocket and car a favor and drive normally. Rev matching is something every manual driver should know, its basic driving skill.

Oh left foot braking, never can get the hang of that, feels weird touching the brake pedals with my left foot. I either brake too much, or too little then I end up doing some weird shit trying to correct it lol.

Please do not try on normal roads, its very risky.

[Chernoby1]

But when I do, Its so you come out of the corner in the power band + it allows me to enter a corner at a higher speed then I normally would, insta power at the apex of the turn. Ever sat around a corner in vtec? This is how u do it (some pro drivers are gonna gimme shit for this).

I am struggling to see how heel and toe is at all relevant to what you are saying. You are just in the right gear for that corner :/



Sure it adds stress on the brakes and rotors, but it gives me a thrill of a lifetime. I mod/service the car accordingly.

Wat.



Do your pocket and car a favor and drive normally. Rev matching is something every manual driver should know, its basic driving skill.


Heel/Toe is rev matching........ and Normal people do not rev match. Im going by the definition that normal is qhat MOST people do; driving normally means using the synchros.



Oh left foot braking, never can get the hang of that, feels weird touching the brake pedals with my left foot. I either brake too much, or too little then I end up doing some weird shit trying to correct it lol.

Sound like you need more practice. LFB is one thing, but when feeling riskay, i use left foot to accelerate too. Mad awks in body position. Doing right foot clutching isnt that bad in most cars either. Also probs worth trying to change gears with your right hand.;Gottsa be prepared for loosing a limb yo!

[amant02]

uh heel and toe = rev matching.

My def - Heel and toe = Braking while keeping the engine revs up. Rev Matching = Slight/Heavy blip on the accelerator before down shifting to desired gear, to Match the engine speed to wheel speed. Double Clutch = In gear>Clutch> Let go of clutch while in neutral blip accelerator> Clutch In gear to save syncros has to be done in one smooth motion and very fast. Flat shift = Never let go of accelerator just change the gears super fast aka violent kick in of the clutch and let go asap (works super good with dog box).

These are what I can do. This is what I've believed for the last 3 years of practice.

[mocchi]

amant youre now ready for best motoring gunma touge race wars.

[cbauto]

Where is spidermun

[curtis265]

when feeling riskay, i use left foot to accelerate too. Mad awks in body position. Doing right foot clutching isnt that bad in most cars either. Also probs worth trying to change gears with your right hand.;Gottsa be prepared for loosing a limb yo!

you must look like an absolute spastic

[Chernoby1]

you must look like an absolute spastic
Took a while but I got it looking natural enough now. Single foot driving is non noticable, and an now able to shift with right hand, without twisting my back.

[Baby Face]

uh heel and toe = rev matching.

My def - Heel and toe = Braking while keeping the engine revs up. Rev Matching = Slight/Heavy blip on the accelerator before down shifting to desired gear, to Match the engine speed to wheel speed. Double Clutch = In gear>Clutch> Let go of clutch while in neutral blip accelerator> Clutch In gear to save syncros has to be done in one smooth motion and very fast. Flat shift = Never let go of accelerator just change the gears super fast aka violent kick in of the clutch and let go asap (works super good with dog box).

These are what I can do. This is what I've believed for the last 3 years of practice.

This is a different technique that is common for advanced FF drivers and Turbo cars since its keeps the boost on.
essentially the technique you are describing is the true left foot braking, breaking with the left foot and keeping your right foot applying gas through out the corner. You are just doing it wrong or unorthodox.
its good for controlling the cars weight distribution. and the advantage of being right on the gas straight away aint bad either.

So heal toe, is short for heal toe shifting, is the act of rev matching with the heal and toe, not brake slipping as that is generally done with the whole left foot on the brake and the whole right foot on the gas as this also gives better control over how much break and how much power to overcome the breaks u need, in a fwd car i guess its not so deadly important if you get it slightly wrong. rwd is another game.

[mocchi]

so in short, heal your toe if you break it.

[u mad?]

lmao wtf did i just read. fuking vomit on my laptop screen

what in the fuk

[EKVTIR-T]

yh if heal and tow not properly might need get car toe

[DreadAngel]

rwd is game over.

Fixed

[RenzokukenJ]

Heal

Tow