Any CG Owners out there?

[VTEC_ACCORD]

Hi guys, New to Oz Honda and was wondering if there are any CG owners out there that can offer some advice or performance parts or some common issues.

I have a factory manual 2.3l VTEC CG Honda Accord.

Can someone point me in the right direction for performance parts for the F23A1 Engines. I can't find anything on them.

Cheers..

[Jasemas]

Hi guys, New to Oz Honda and was wondering if there are any CG owners out there that can offer some advice or performance parts or some common issues.

I have a factory manual 2.3l VTEC CG Honda Accord.

Can someone point me in the right direction for performance parts for the F23A1 Engines. I can't find anything on them.

Cheers..


Here there an welcome
Nice to see another accord owner here
Unfortunately the F23 does not have as much aftermarket support as other honda engines
And Australia has never been big with the accords - mainly civics/integras
So again another hurdle
But what performance parts were you after?
Intake/Exhaust/Headers?

Come join us on OzAccord.net/forum - dedicated accord forum

[VTEC_ACCORD]

Well those types of mods are a given regardless. They are generally first on the list for any car enthusiast. I was more looking at top end engine mods..

I will certainly do that..

[Jasemas]

You're better of putting a H in mate :)

[VTEC_ACCORD]

I would rather stick with the F23 as it is a good strong engine, and also a higher capacity. Putting on a turbo wouldn't be out of the question down the track, but i would like to develop a strong N/A engine first before taking that step. I know that i'm probably going to have to get 99.9% of my parts from the states, that isn't the issue. I just don't really know where to start..

[Jasemas]

Well you can start with bisimoto cams?
Then you'll need a tune
I'm sure a H23/22 Intake Manifold will be an added bonus
Put a H series gearbox in - short ratios
Lightened flywheel
Clutch


There are rare version of the H
Which is the H23 VTEC - blue top

[VTEC_ACCORD]

I really didn't want to go through the hassle of changing the engine as it becomes a very tedious job if you don't have the cash behind you. I was generally looking for basically cam work an upgraded fuel rail and injectors. I am also going to purchase another F23 head and get it ported and shaved. i'm not looking for massive power, looking for more usable power that will surprise a few people. i think i'll definatley be getting some stuff from Bisimoto.. also just going to put some coilovers under it and some decent rims and tyres..

I found a H23 VTEC engine in the states for $650, but it will cost me the earth to get it here.

[Jasemas]

Don't get H's from the states
get em from Japan sub 100,xxxkms on em
Your stock fuel injectors and fuel regulator are good to over 300whp - don't bother about that
Unless you going all motor
|Haven a clean of the EGR ports in the intake manifold

Coilovers, decent rims and tyres are a good way to go
Or a 4.7 final drive?

[VTEC_ACCORD]

I was also thinking of a bigger brake package for when the suspension goes in. Would you have any knowledge to if the V6 brakes and hubs match up?

[curtis265]

I really didn't want to go through the hassle of changing the engine as it becomes a very tedious job if you don't have the cash behind you. I was generally looking for basically cam work an upgraded fuel rail and injectors. I am also going to purchase another F23 head and get it ported and shaved. i'm not looking for massive power, looking for more usable power that will surprise a few people. i think i'll definatley be getting some stuff from Bisimoto.. also just going to put some coilovers under it and some decent rims and tyres..

I found a H23 VTEC engine in the states for $650, but it will cost me the earth to get it here.

I don't think turbo/living with an aftermarket turbo is easier than an Hswap

[VTEC_ACCORD]

A turbo is going to be more of a last resort option if i can't make better power keeping it NA. i was just saying that it's not out of the question later on down the track. I would rather stick with the F series engine. If i can find a H23 engine/gearbox and loom package for a decent price, then i might consider it.

[Jasemas]

I was also thinking of a bigger brake package for when the suspension goes in. Would you have any knowledge to if the V6 brakes and hubs match up?

Pretty sure cuz your's is a 6th gen the swap should very easy - your hubs are rotor over hub. 5th gens were the other way around
But if you are going big brake upgrade
You might as well do 5 lug swap

[VTEC_ACCORD]

Well i'm a little bit partial towards the 5 stud hubs. As they're stronger and not to mention, rim selection is cheaper and there is more of a range. because i am mostly likely going to go for a drilled and slotted on the front and just drilled on the rear. Just wondering if the V6 hubs will fit my driveshafts..

Also, What do you think the chances are of the 2.3l gearbox fitting onto the 3.0l V6?

Much modification needed? lol

[Jasemas]

Well i'm a little bit partial towards the 5 stud hubs. As they're stronger and not to mention, rim selection is cheaper and there is more of a range. because i am mostly likely going to go for a drilled and slotted on the front and just drilled on the rear. Just wondering if the V6 hubs will fit my driveshafts..

Also, What do you think the chances are of the 2.3l gearbox fitting onto the 3.0l V6?

Much modification needed? lol

Pretty sure you can move the caliper over - might need some research on it though

On the latter
Pretty sure they're the same auto slush box
BUT
If you want to go manual
YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN WORLD OF HURT
No accord v6 in Aus came with manual - all auto

[VTEC_ACCORD]

Yeah, i know they all came auto. Just wondering if anyone knew of someone succesfully making the transplant..

[curtis265]

Well i'm a little bit partial towards the 5 stud hubs. As they're stronger and not to mention, rim selection is wider and there is more of a range. because i am mostly likely going to go for a drilled and slotted on the front and just drilled on the rear. Just wondering if the V6 hubs will fit my driveshafts..

Also, What do you think the chances are of the 2.3l gearbox fitting onto the 3.0l V6?

Much modification needed? lol

drilled rotors so it can crack..?

[VTEC_ACCORD]

Why would they crack?

[Jasemas]

Think about it
Drilling into metal with 100's of holes
Will and can cause metal fatigue and failure - i'm not engineer but that's what i've came across
Either go vented/solid

[VTEC_ACCORD]

I don't like solid rotors because of brake fade and heat issues.. And vented probably won't cut it for what i have planned for it..

[Jasemas]

I'm sure you can get them casted with holes in them instead of drilling.


Here's a few threads

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/6g-honda-accord-faq/9997-my-cl-s-tranny-swap-parts-list-info.html

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/6th-generation-honda-accord-1998-2002/113753-6-speed-manual-transmission-swap-guide-harness-info.html

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/6g-honda-accord-faq/28744-cl-s-transmission-swap-list-*details-inside-*.html

[Jasemas]

I don't like solid rotors because of brake fade and heat issues.. And vented probably won't cut it for what i have planned for it..

I'm sure there's a whole thread about slotted and vented rotors and heat dissapation
It's here on ozhonda, someone should find it lol

[curtis265]

Think about it
Drilling into metal with 100's of holes
Will and can cause metal fatigue and failure - i'm not engineer but that's what i've came across
Either go vented/solid

on the right track - it breakes down the crystalline structure instead of forming around the holes. If you want cast in holes it will cost a lot

also there is no science proving that slots cool faster - it's all to do with teh vanes
1. blanks contain more mass and are therefore able to hold more heat for a given temperature
2. there is less surface for the friction to work on, so you'll get less brakeforce

if you want to stop faster, you need the right temp range on the pads

[VTEC_ACCORD]

If that is the case. Then why are all high performance brake packages either drilled or slotted, or both? Clearly the engineers who design these parts are smarter than any of us..

[curtis265]

Because they can sell them for more and profit more due to their aesthetic factors

There is a bit of truth to it such as the slots on the pads de-gassing pads that are fading, but that can only work so well, however not twice as well which is what slotted cost.

have a read of these and see if it changes your opinion
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tires-wheels-brakes-suspension-sponsored-tire-rack/476634-slotted-vs-blank-rotors.html
http://automotivethinker.com/brakes-2/rotors-blank-vs-cross-drilled-vs-slotted-and-warping/
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1437513

[Jasemas]

If that is the case. Then why are all high performance brake packages either drilled or slotted, or both? Clearly the engineers who design these parts are smarter than any of us..

Depends if you're paying for the 'brand' and not the actual product?
Curtis is an engineer and he'll tell you
I'm sure the right brake pad and rotor would make a perfect combination
I doubt you could push your cg that far & hard that you'd require big brakes - than again our accords are ****ing heavy boats 1300-1400

[Jasemas]

Most of the time people with slotted/drilled/vented rotors
Will have them for looks and as curtis said aesthetics and will rarely even use them

[Jasemas]

I'm not going to say it's any better
But my accord did not come with abs and in my opinion
I like it without it
Example
90 degree right hand turn
Light brake, turn in
Car understeers, heads for gutter, slam on brake hard for 1/4 second, car snaps out of understeer and oversteer's
If i had ABS i conclude i'd be wrapped around a pole

[VTEC_ACCORD]

Well if all goes to plan.. I'm hoping to have a reliable daily. But where i live we have alot of hill climp comps. And i've entered in a few in the bottom classes and it goes quite well.. Obviously not looking at being in the top classes. But to have something that can rev hard, corner like a go cart and stop on a dime would be advantageous. It goes quite well. And the VTEC works really well.. I don't know why more people work with these engines. Surprises alot of people off the line. And i can smash commodores and falcons down the highway all day, every day..

Also surprises the odd silvia and skyline before the boost has a chance to kick in..

[Jasemas]

Don't get me wrong the accord handles well for a saloon
Even with bent suspension - it handled well
But it's nothing like a go kart
Unfortunately the vtec for our sohc's are just fuel economical
Wait til you throw a H in and see the engine open up

[curtis265]

Jasemas I'm dead srs here - I should have let you go for a ride i n the prelude, it's not that great and could barely have an fd civic due to gearing and and torque shapes. The prelude weighed about the same as a accord too

[Jasemas]

Jasemas I'm dead srs here - I should have let you go for a ride i n the prelude, it's not that great and could barely have an fd civic due to gearing and and torque shapes. The prelude weighed about the same as a accord too

My mate gave me a ride in his Si BB4
OMG man my mate pushes it to the limit 60km around round abouts, 180km/h up at the back of the scarborough
Was shitting myself thought i was gonna die
I don't mind preludes - i think they're neat
Should of kept yours man!

[Jasemas]

After watching a few vids on youtube
Of cd5's with H22's in them
I just want one man

[VTEC_ACCORD]

Well it's been confirmed.

There old CG will be getting a full T3 turbo setup running about 12psi.. Has anyone ran into any issues with Honda engines and turbo's?

Also is there any computers that work well with them?

And i'm thinking of just buying adjustable coils to go on my standard struts. any pro's or cons with those?

[curtis265]

In regards to the computer, speak with a competent tuner and get the ECU that they suggest. It's kind of like feeding your fish dog food. it'll kinda work but you won't get the best results.

There are plenty of turbo hondas around on this forum, but you need to ask an engine specific question. pm kccord, he had a turbo F22 (iirc), but he hasn't been around here for a while.

[VTEC_ACCORD]

And what are the thoughts on just the coilover springs being mounted to factory struts?

[curtis265]

And what are the thoughts on just the coilover springs being mounted to factory struts?

you can't do that, they're too short

unless you're real keen or something

[VTEC_ACCORD]

The ones that i am looking at are the same length as the factory springs.

[Jasemas]

Why not go Aftermarket struts with oem springs
Koni!!!

As for turbo
Find a REPUTABLE TUNER who is good with any ecu you have in mind and use that ecu he is good with
Discuss with him your goals and what psi/turbo you'll be looking at etc.

Look unless you're going to do a major rebuild of the engine
Forged conrods, pistons, ring lands, balanced crankshaft etc.
12ps is pushing it on stock internals, even though the F series it bulletproof - they can only take so much
How man km's has the engine got?
Any pinging/knocking at 1000-2000rpms?
What compression are you running across all 4 cylinders?
Minimum is 130 psi-190psi. Less than 10% variance between numbers is what is optimal

You'll easily get 6-8psi as a daily with a good tune on stock internals.
Only with a GOOD tune. Yes i know i have repeated my self

[curtis265]

The ones that i am looking at are the same length as the factory springs.
sorry i thought u were talking about those short 'coilover' springs

I don't see why not - what springs are they anyway?

[VTEC_ACCORD]

They are megan racing springs.

The engine has 306k on it. I'm planning on buying a second hand cylinder head and rebuilding it with new parts and some stuff from bisimoto as well. And when i pull the head off to replace it, it's getting a performance head gasket from
Bisimoto as well as some new pistons and rings. And i think they're called h beam rods as well. Also new fuel rail and injectors from bisimoto. I don't think i'll got to the extent of getting forged internals.

And there is no rattles or noises in the low revs, but in 1st gear at about 4500 it rattles sometimes. I thought it might just be the lifters sticking and the rocker arms rattling around..

[Jasemas]

That is alot of kms for 12psi
You will need forged if your going over 10psi
Head work is just the start really
You don't need everything from bisimoto
Check out AEM, skunk2, etc. You'll also need a new fuel regulator and fuel pump
How much power were you looking to make at the wheel/or crank/flywheel?
I know i'm coming of as arrogant but turboing a car is ALOT of work
Do some research come up with a parts list and consult other people who have turboed their accords/hondas
There is a guy on ozaccord who turbo-ed his accord

[stndrd]

With 306,000km and having the intentions of turbocharging, you would be better off buying a complete second hand engine from the wreckers and rebuild that. I would leave the head stock (apart from a good set of valve springs) and build the bottom end with forged rods and pistons (ring lands are a section of the piston, not a replaceable part).

I would also look at some ARP head studs, 600cc injectors, fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump & ecu.

You will get a Hondata to work or you could look to hardwire a Haltech in. All comes down on what you and your tuner want from the ecu.


HANDLING

If you are going to be doing hill climbs with a turbo Accord, you will need a properly matched suspension set up. I would look at Koni shocks/Eibach springs or something similar or a set of coilovers, along with a nice rear swaybar.

You will also need a LSD to make sure you can get the power to the ground and this involves opening the gearbox and rebuilding it.

With brakes there are a few options out there. You can stay with the 4 stud and upgrade pads/rotors/hoses all round or you can go 5 stud and do the same thing. Pad selection is more critical than what rotor you use as if the temp range of the pad is too low or too high, you will not pull up quick enough.

And the thing that is going to be of most benefit to you, tyres. If you are going to the effort of doing all these other mods, make sure you get a great tyre (Toyo R1R, Advan AD08R, Kumho KU36 or similar) as your whole setup is only as good as your tyres.


If you have any questions or need some parts, drop me a PM, otherwise best of luck with your adventure :D

[Jasemas]

Stndrd is da man
Ima leave this thread ahah