racing & wheels

[ah789454]

hello peeps

someone told me that racing with big mags (17s) slows ur car a fair bit. becos they are so heavy

do you guys agree or disagree??

any opinions?

[XXpl0Sive]

Heavier is slower, having a larger rotating mass is slower.

Depends on what car you have, 17's arnt necessarily what you'd call "big". It's relative to your car.

[vti-2]

17's aren't that big and they are fine for racing/quarter mile.... IF they are light.

Heavy rims are your enemy if you race your car. Companies like Rays Engineering, Work, Mugen and Spoon spends huge amounts of money developing wheels that are lightweight. These are the wheels you want if you race and want decent looking rims. ;)

[XXpl0Sive]

The also cost up to $1000+ per rim :)

[vti-2]

The also cost up to $1000+ per rim :)

Yep... :D

[A'PEXi]

somethin like the buddyclub/enkei arn't bad, they dont leave such a big hole in your pocket compared to grams/volks.....

[LatinoHatchCrap]

If you got an EG 15" is the "optimun" wheel size for track and street. A larger wheel will not only add unsprung weight to your car but also increase rotating mass. Both of these will hinder acceleration and handling. But dont believe me just do it yourself...chuck a set of 17" chromies on and take them off. Then throw sum stock steelies and tell us how different it feels.
I went from 16" ANZ assasins :? to stock steelies and difference was very noticible. Now just waiting for my new set :)

[civicboy]

wat set did u grab vato? ;) hehehe

[LatinoHatchCrap]

I'll post pics once they're on. Im using toyo rubber with that

[civicboy]

ooOoh coooooolz hehehe ;) semis?

[totti]

you should try going from 18's down to 14's

i thought i used to own a 15sec honda, now it runs 10's i tell ya lol

[VTi-RT]

lol, I think a few of us have been there totti :D

[DarkCoupe]

so in your opinion guys ... would buddyclub P1's be light or say Rota C8's?

would you call those 'lightweight racing wheels'??

[McChook]

depends on the weight mate

[DarkCoupe]

well say ... compared to standard 15x6 Civic VTi-R wheels (which I have)

[McChook]

be specific, how much do the wheels weight with tyres. Camparing is uselss we don't know the exact weights

[DarkCoupe]

yeah I agree with you ...

thing is I also don't know what my stock wheels weight (I looked on google so far I havent found anything)

if I had that info then I can make the decision ...

[McChook]

Take wheel off, put on bathroom scales.
The ONLY way.

[XXpl0Sive]

Otherwise, there's a thread I posted with many many weights for (US) rims. Yours (Civic Coupe) would definately be in there because it was USDM.

[bumthology]

IF you have the torque,
i think 17's or big wheels can actually make you faster..

dont flame me !! i think..
ehhe

[Weq]

Is there any way to get steelies and a wider/lower profile ?? :)
I love my steelies, but im sure traction will become and issue when the boost gets upped.

[ginganggooly]

it's not only the weight, but the distribution of the weight. the further away from the centre you place the the rotating mass, the more work is done. generally, when going from a 15" rim to a 17" rim, you are moving a large portion of the rotating mass -the rim area and tyre- further from the centre of the wheel. so you end up moving the mass of the rim and tyre a greater distance (needs more powah!).

so generally speaking, if you take a 15" wheel with the same mass as a 17" wheel, the 15" wheel would accelerate more freely (obviously depending on the distribution of mass regarding tyres and materials etc).

[VTEC16]

good point ginga.....id say post people miss that point....good stuff :thumbsup:

[LatinoHatchCrap]

IF you have the torque,
i think 17's or big wheels can actually make you faster..

dont flame me !! i think..
ehhe :thumbsdown:

[lane-o]

ok so going by that, i usually get around on 18's on my EK9. But I also got a set of 'ok lookin' 16'' chromies and i am heading for the track a few times this year i hope. So would it be better to swap for some VTi-R wheels or keep the 16's and whack on some good rubber? or trade the 16''s in and get some aftermarket lightwieght 15''s??

[LatinoHatchCrap]

track?? as in drag or curcuit racing? 15's is the optimal size but if you drag then that changes everything

[lane-o]

sorry my bad, track as in wakefield.....

[dc2r]

buddyclub p1's and volk ce28's are considered as lightweight wheels... they will be better than ur stock civic rims...

smaller the wheel, the quicker the acceleration... this is better for track...
the bigger rims will have higher top end, i.e. u will be travelling faster at higher speeds... but not good for acceleration...

[shecomb]

I thought the whole idea of lower profile rubber was to make the overall diameter of the wheel the same. Therefore, the size of RIM would not matter.... :shock:

I spose there is still slight difference in overall wheel size with bigger rims.

But theoretically, if the overall size is the same, wouldn't the accelleration be the same? Apart from weight difference of course

[dc2r]

yes the weight matters....

The whole idea of lower profile is for stiffer sidewalls...

[wynode]

yes the weight matters....

The whole idea of lower profile is for stiffer sidewalls...Yup......which translates to less tyre flex when cornering.

[LatinoHatchCrap]

why spend over 1k on wheels when you can get rotas that are new, light, strong and look hot. I will one day get some REAL jdm rims but for now i rather spend my $$$ on other things rather than 3k on rims alone.

[DarkCoupe]

do you guys think 16x7 4x100 CE28N Volk Racing Rims for $2300 (no tyres) is worth it?

[cokeking123]

price is ok i guess

[vtc]

what about lightweight lug nuts..
why do companies advertise them being like 200% lighter then stock.. when rotating do these become a bigger force? or is it just crap..

[sivic]

lightweight lug nuts is pretty much wank factor. the difference is negligible.

[Speeder]

lightweight lug nuts is pretty much wank factor. the difference is negligible.
i think so too.

But the point is that usually bigger wheels will affect your pick up speed. The

excess weight is distributed to the drivetrain which then looses the balance,

therefore putting more load in the moving parts. For cornering, i dont think that

the bigger the wheel is the better it handles, rather its more of the tyre and the

profile you choose.

[7th Gen]

yep, all very valid points here people

thats why i intend to go down to 15' and it should be okay for me, esp. on crappy sydney roads :D

[bumography]

having said what i said before,
just say u are putting 10 inch wheels on a lamborghini its not going to be faster.
to a certain degree I think wheel size to performance also has a lot to do with the torque of the engine.
but i guess smaller wheels are better for handling?
big wheels good for drags (in relation to the amount of torque)

[edw-R]

Yes, they are right. Most of drag racing use 14"-15" rims.

[bumography]

drag uses small rims
with GIANT FAT wheels though

[sivic]

having said what i said before,
just say u are putting 10 inch wheels on a lamborghini its not going to be faster.
to a certain degree I think wheel size to performance also has a lot to do with the torque of the engine.
but i guess smaller wheels are better for handling?
big wheels good for drags (in relation to the amount of torque)

nope, larger wheels on low profile rubber better handling
small wheels with fat rubber for drags. not really anythin to do with torque but more so to do with application.

[aznsiko]

i have 17"s and they arent heavy.. they weight in like about 8KG each wheel.. my old wheels.. also 17" were 10KG each wheel... but yes... it does make a difference..

[sivic]

its not just the weight of the wheel though. as mentioned earlier its the distribution of the weight. if you did high school physics you'll remember a formula ( cant remember exactly) which is used to calculate the work required to move something. i'm sure someone on here does some more advanced physics and can clarify on this. but anyway, the greater the distance of the mass to away from the fulcrum, in this case the centre of the wheel, the more work is required to move it. so, larger wheels have more weight distributed further away from the centre and therefore require more energy to rotate them.

[strafe]

Drag cars use larger tyres so they can run a larger contact patch on the road. All of the wheel and tyre weight doesn't mean a thing in the world if you can't get power to the ground. Mind you, serious drag car run lightweight wheels and lightweight brakes.

Race cars use larger wheels so they can use larger brakes, and lower profile tyres mean stiffer sidewalls, which means less tyre flex, which means more control and grip when turning.

Running larger wheels means your car will make less power at the wheels, but this may be irrelevant if the car makes a lot of power. Wheel selection is a compromise between power and handling.

[edw-R]

For racing: 17" is too big.
For street: 17" is very sweet.
Depends on what you think!!

[Limbo]

you'll prob find that going anything over 2 sizes from what is factory will tend to drag the car down abit. Like all above stated the rims will lag you depending on torque and the car's performance. From factory they make the cars with the rims for a reason, namely they are cheap and perform better with the standard wheels.

Also if you get lighter wheels you gotta be careful as they are made with alloy and are easily warped due to the large potholes in Sydney!
(i've got a set with the same prob) :(

[wynode]

Is there any way to get steelies and a wider/lower profile ?? :)
I love my steelies, but im sure traction will become and issue when the boost gets upped.
Problem with steelies is that they are quite weak compared to forged/cast aftermarket rims. Expect steelies to bend/warp under track use!

[ian]

ok, i'm resurrecting this thread...............

i understand that a stock and/or small size diameter rim (relative to the proportion of the car) has higher tyre sidewalls (profile) in comparison to a larger aftermarket sized diameter rim (relative to the proportion of the car) has lower tyre sidewalls (profile).

am i correct to assume that a stock and/or small size diameter rim is has less rotational mass than a larger size diameter rim therefore a stock and/or small size diameter rim will efficiently transfer power into the wheels (less rotation force & less stress).

which brings me to my question:
what size wheels are best on a circuit track? ie wakefield?
I have a set of stock 15x6 (195/55r15) and also a set of 18x7.5 (215/35r18).
which of these would be the ideal to run a lower time?

The larger wheel with low profile tyres would be effective on the corners? would it not?
And the smaller wheel with high profile tyres would be effective on the straights? would it not?
What is the compromise? Which set up is best for this use? And why?

[revNhevN]

The way i see it there are a few advanteges of lightweight wheels compard to say 19 inch chromies (like my neighbour) on the track:

Faster acceleration
Faster deceleration/better braking
Allows your suspsension to do its work properly
Easier to change wheels

[panda[cRx]]

also more flex on the sidewalls but i dont think its THAT much of a concern on the average streeter/weekend tracker

[revNhevN]

']also more flex on the sidewalls but i dont think its THAT much of a concern on the average streeter/weekend tracker

Will semi slicks fix this?

[panda[cRx]]

semi's are more to do do with having a softer compound and 'slicker' tread for better traction.

i dont see how it would affect flex

[bennjamin]

']semi's are more to do do with having a softer compound and 'slicker' tread for better traction.

i dont see how it would affect flex

semis have a "squarer" profile than street tyres , and stiffer sidewalls.
OFcourse this translates to less flex mid corner :)

[panda[cRx]]

ah i didnt know they had stiffer sidewalls
and i do guess 'squarer' is a better description but u got what i was saying bleh;)

i'm still trying to do my tire studying atm :p

[[R]]

ultimately if you had a set of 15x7 - or 7.5 (195/50(or45?)/15) for the car that you have would be ideal.

why? gives you the best of both worlds..
smaller rim diameter therefore more efficient transfer of power at the wheels as you've listed above.
more width on tyres for better handling...

that's basically it in a nutshell... :D

(however if you're going on track, best option would be a set of slicks or semislicks - can be costly though)

[lerroy]

Currently have a set of chrome bling 18"s

i was looking at getting some 5Zigen pro racer or Gram lights 57s 17" i want better power....Street use

would i see much difference ??? or am i best going 16"

i love the look of 17" but ill sacrifice it for better performance

no point in getting lightweight fly wheel if i am trying to turn an elephant hahah

[joneblaze]

Lerroy, try some "lightweight" throwaround 16"s, ie. Rota Slipstreams.

[SPEEDCORE]

:rolleyes:
Nah Lerroy...... get some throwout... I mean throwaround 15" ie. Enkei.......

[pgclee]

get SW388...

[ian]

okay, well i really think my larger wheels will help me around the corners but i came to the conclusion that the stock wheels are generally better balanced to the car, so i'm using my 15x6 on wakefield.......