Turbo+rev limiter question

[Spoon-Accord]

G'day all

I've been researching and watching videos of people thrashing their cars, most of the video with turbo honda's they hit the limiter like a rabbit on heat,

For example , first gear wheel spin, hit limiter for 2 seconds and then into 2nd gear wheel spin sitting on limiter and so on

Would smashing the limiter be harmful or bad? Cause I'm about to start my project boosting my ek4, and watching all these videos with people smashing their rev limiters like its nothing

Hope I made sense, it's hard to describe this sorta thing.


Kenny

[Stevil]

most likely they have an aftermarket ECU which allows them to set up a much lower rev limiter for 1st gear. I have my launch control set at 3000rpm, so I can hold the clutch in, stick it in 1st and put my foot flat to the floor with the throttle, car then wont rev over 3k til it gained complete traction. I've also lowered my Rev limit so I dont mind banging 2nd hard either.

[Sexc86]

There is also the progressive soft rev limiter in the hondata which is cool too.. read up on it on the hondata webpage :)

[mugen_ctr]

Kenny wayyyyyyyyy too many factors to consider as to why they wheel spin in first an 2nd gear, but id say its the tire they use and the road condition its happening on...

Forget launch control, as long as u know ur car inside out, and know how to drive, u shouldnt really need to resort to launch control, cool factor, but how many times are u gonna use it?

Bashing on the limiter isnt too harmful so long as ur not constantly on the red line, all comes down to the driver

A well setup turbo civic shouldnt wheel spin like crazy, it should hook up and pull, last thing u want is to wheel spin an get no where lol

[Lukezen27]

OR overeager teenagers that can't drive!

I never hit my rev limiter

Most of the time its a bad driver and any time spent on the limiter is wasting valuable time then they should be shifting lol

As Lyle said, setups for traction or launch control can be prone hitting the limiter and unavoidable

Rev limiters protect your motor so its much better hearing it then not hearing it hahah

[Spoon-Accord]

thanks for the repsonse boys!

I'm old now and sometimes i don't understand those over eager teenagers too luke

reason why i'm asking is i'm going boost, watching all these videos of boosted honda's.

all i see if them hitting limiter scavenging for traction, with my stock ek4 and ek9, traction was never an issue
So yeah, with a turbo honda, hitting the limiter, will that slowly kill the engine? my engine will be stuffed with forged internals with stock sleeves (if that helps)

kenny

[destrukshn]

i have a turbo dc2.
i have to stay feather on the limiter on partial throttle a bit before on 2nd gear to build up speed in 2nd gear before i shift, or it bogs.. and sometimes 3rd gear too.
lol
i also have a built motor, and i have run into no problems here.

[Limbo]

rem that turbo wears your motor faster. Hitting over the rev limiter just wears it down more.
Its always best to stay within the rev limits, your tuner should be able to set this up for you.
My boosted ek4 had the same prob, but i had the cut-off at 8,200 so it was all good.
Being a FWD makes it hard to get traction.
Its been a while since i launched a FWD, diff story now with the 4WD ;p.
That's also why i parted the ek4 and brought an Evo9. Its just a different class. But it is $$$.

Ek4 - 172kw atw, Evo9 - 285kw atw...... says it all

P.S John your one of the last i've seen still with their turbo honda!. Luke's gone and back again......

Maybe i should boost my Jazz.....

[Spoon-Accord]

But in saying the class is different

If you lined up you ek4 and the Evo, wouldn't that be a good and close race due to the civic being lighter then the 4 door Evo?

I've just seen so many sub 300/400hp civic giving evo's and sti's a spanking

Also thanks for the response guys, when I get the car tuned I'll ask the tuner to set an appropriate rev limiter /cutoff
Was just worried if I keep hitting that limiter scrambling for traction that I'll ruin such a $$$ build

I'm also trying to shoot 400-450hp atw with this setup
Only thing that'll be standard is the sleeves (yanks do it all day and night) so I thought I'd try and achieve the same (with a capable tuner and running on e85)

[destrukshn]

yes dude, still running around in my turbo honda, and still playing with it. lol.
been in plenty of other turbo cars, and nothing just doens't quite compare
boost it already, just for fun lol bring it back to haks to make the manifold. lol.

what motor will you be running?

i'm currently running on standard sleeves on a b18c2 340kw atw which equates too approx 550hp atw on 98 fuel, beening running like this for the past 6months or so, no issues.

[Spoon-Accord]

It's interesting

You get 40%of the people telling you do it, you won't regret it.
60% say don't because you'll end up blowing the motor

But the 60% percent have never owned one or attempted to turbo one

I've always wanted to do it, and I'm currently research every single grey area so I can pursue on the project

I've been researching 3 hours a day for the past 3 weeks, and every day, I'm adding one parts or two, and dam the list does get big

Would someone recommend low comp high boost or high comp low boost? This will also be a daily driven car and I'd like to run a turbo or boost pressure that accommodates turbo efficiency

Ps. Although I don't condone street racing, I'm currently building this car for the drag strip, at least once a month
Only cars I have in the crosshairs are evo's and sti's (some new v8 holdens and turbo fords!)

[destrukshn]

you won't regret it.
I've built mine on approx 9.0 comp.
daily driven. safe, so safe run bigger boost.
all depends on tune though.
running a gtx3071 with a tial .82 rear housing.
a touch laggy. but great top end.
all depends on gear ratios too.
too much research can do your head in as everyone has a different opinion.

what motor are you building?

[Limbo]

turbo civics are fun. Its not too expensive anyway so just boost it.
Evo vs Civic. All comes down to how much you wana put into it.
End of the day if you have enough money the evo will kill the civic.
Bigger motor + 4wd will always beat the fwd smaller motor.

My civic use to rip stop Evos & rexy's on the straight, but on the corners they r fast. Also traction is great on 4wd compared to a fwd.

End of the day i wanted all the creature comforts.
Evo drives better, handles better and non of the rattles etc of an old car.
Also boost is on tap and i can fly in wet weather like its dry.

[DLO01]

G'day all

I've been researching and watching videos of people thrashing their cars, most of the video with turbo honda's they hit the limiter like a rabbit on heat,

For example , first gear wheel spin, hit limiter for 2 seconds and then into 2nd gear wheel spin sitting on limiter and so on

Would smashing the limiter be harmful or bad? Cause I'm about to start my project boosting my ek4, and watching all these videos with people smashing their rev limiters like its nothing

Hope I made sense, it's hard to describe this sorta thing.


Kenny

Stock ECU. 'Rev limiter' is fuel cut only. Bounce off this limiter for any extended period of time. Lean out condition and bang!

Hondata (not sure about other ecus). 'Rev limiter' is also fuel cut only. Bounce off this limiter for any extended period of time. Lean out condition and bang!

Hondata (not sure about other ecus). 'Launch control' is ignition cut. Bounce off this limiter and there won't be an issue.

Depending how the Ecu is tunned It could be bouncing off either limiter, as launch control is set at a cirtain (generally lower rpm) governed by vehicle speed value. So anything higher than this speed cancels the launch control rpm value.

[Spoon-Accord]

Ahh right

Thanks for the responses again

Motor in question is still undecided

Looking at bolting up a gtx3071r on the stock b16a first to get a feel for it

Need lsd, cause I doubt the s4c I have atm doesn't have lsd

Planning on picking up a b18c2 and build it up instead of pissing around with the motor I have in the car (can also drive it around in the meantime)

Been looking at lasey or dart sleeved and built bottom end blocks, but I'm afraid of the postage costs
Also sending them a core block would be expensive too (dart can supply core blocks for additional costs which seems like a better alternative)

[stndrd]

Hi comp + boost = the most fun you will ever have without involving a female

I would choose a Precision or EFR turbo over a Garrett as they respond better to the charateristics of the Honda motors.

Darton sleeves are my personal choice if you were to sleeve it and there a one or two guys I trust to install these in Australia.

Just stick with a B18C block with a good set of sleeves and some good pistons, rods & bearings and you will be fine

[Spoon-Accord]

Stock sleeves? Just add pistons and rods ?

I was thinking of that too, sub 300 kW is enough

[IEVAQ8]

I have a genuine ek9 gear box here if ur keen Kenny...

freshly rebuilt with LSD ... ;)

[u mad?]

so gtr's have shit engines

i see

[Spoon-Accord]

GTR have good engines, don't hate or dislike them
Nor any other engine out there

I've just been thinking about boosted b series for quite sometime now, I've just never had the motivation to get the ball rolling, but after today, sat in a customers supra on a base tune of 380kw atw, that made me jizz all over.

Being in a k.swap civic is one thing, being in that supra made me hold on for dear life

[Lukezen27]

GTR have good engines, don't hate or dislike them
Nor any other engine out there

I've just been thinking about boosted b series for quite sometime now, I've just never had the motivation to get the ball rolling, but after today, sat in a customers supra on a base tune of 380kw atw, that made me jizz all over.

Being in a k.swap civic is one thing, being in that supra made me hold on for dear life

My plan was a K24 Rotrex but can't justify the cost lol

[Spoon-Accord]

My plan was a K24 Rotrex but can't justify the cost lol


how was your civic boosted anyway? fun? reliable?

i like it because it's different. honda's are usually just N/A, i wanted to go boost because its different and abit more of a challenge.

i'll be putting this engine together myself, only thing i won't be doing is the tuning and machine work (like honing,head machining)

cause i do have a spare b16a2 sitting on the engine stand atm, slowly pulling her apart and just measuring her up before ordering the parts required

[Lukezen27]

how was your civic boosted anyway? fun? reliable?

i like it because it's different. honda's are usually just N/A, i wanted to go boost because its different and abit more of a challenge.

i'll be putting this engine together myself, only thing i won't be doing is the tuning and machine work (like honing,head machining)

cause i do have a spare b16a2 sitting on the engine stand atm, slowly pulling her apart and just measuring her up before ordering the parts required

Yeah boosted EGs are well wicked and I also do most of my own work to keep costs down and I enjoy the building process anyway

Shouldn't have ever sold her........... Stupid EP3R bug haha

I'm now back rock'n the EG Civics again..

First one blew-up! but only after more than 3 years of very hard labor
All boosted stock D's blowup eventually as warned by Adrian then (TODA)

Project 1.
GReddy Turbo EG5 VTi D16Y1 SOHC VTec (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?79182-GReddy-Kit-D16Y1-SOHC-VTec-E-manage-Untuned-97.5WKW-Not-Bad!!) (threw a con-rod on a local Dyno day)
Power 120kw (Later 137kw)
1/4 Mile PB 14.5 (http://youtu.be/Jt_3aFOohB0)

Project 2.
Custom Turbo EG5 VTi JDM B16A2 (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?108143-New-Project-EG5-JDM-B16A2-Boost-%2856k-Modem-Warning%29) (Still going strong and ran a 12.2 with slicks and E85 power re-tune 180kw)
Power 161kw
1/4 Mile PB 13.2 (http://youtu.be/NZc1_i_NzrA)

Project 3. Current (Build type undecided)
EG5 project (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152300990106654.1073741825.688861653&type=1&l=0adf72ae2e)

[Spoon-Accord]

it's suprising, for 161kw ATW you managed to gain 12.2 1/4 mile which is impressive.

ATM, my build list consists of

b16a2 short block (standard sleeves,standard bore sizes)
JE forged pistons (9.1 CR)
GE forged rods
get the crank balanced and cleaned up
might use OEM bearings or ACL race bearings
GSC T1 cams (love the way they idle, nice little lumpy note from exhaust and have been proving very well for low-midrange torque) which i really need
3 angle valve job
GSC valves,springs and ti retainers
DIY mild port job and remove all casting burrs
skunk2 ultra series street Intake manifold
ITR throttle body

with the turbo kit, this is what i've put together (this list has been changed every week for the last year,still researching and undecided, but its 80% sure)

TR3030R by speedtrapconsulting ( built the imfamous silver surfer in the states)
Spoolin performance stainless log manifold,downpipe,dump pipe kit (retain A/C and P/S)
Tial wastegate and BOV
spoolin performance intercooler piping kit
garrett 400hp cooler in anodized black

probably left a few things out,but thats all i have up in my mind now.
i hope i can pull off somewhere around 300-350kw, but have a response monster with top end pull aswell.
was hoping to get the GTX3071R, but he reccomended me to get the TR3030r as its a mix of the gtx3071r and 3076R

[destrukshn]

you can go for a custom steampipe manifold, and you'll still retain a/c and p/s
and with a PWR thicker full size radiator and fans.
it's a tight fit.
but it works

[destrukshn]

http://imageshack.com/a/img855/7852/zo6h.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img545/4370/ww74.jpg

[Lukezen27]

13.2 @ 161kw street tyres full interior (by me)
12.2 @ 180kw Slicks and stripped (new owner)

[mugen_ctr]

Yeah boosted EGs are well wicked and I also do most of my own work to keep costs down and I enjoy the building process anyway

Shouldn't have ever sold her........... Stupid EP3R bug haha

I'm now back rock'n the EG Civics again..

First one blew-up! but only after more than 3 years of very hard labor
All boosted stock D's blowup eventually as warned by Adrian then (TODA)

Project 1.
GReddy Turbo EG5 VTi D16Y1 SOHC VTec (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?79182-GReddy-Kit-D16Y1-SOHC-VTec-E-manage-Untuned-97.5WKW-Not-Bad!!) (threw a con-rod on a local Dyno day)
Power 120kw (Later 137kw)
1/4 Mile PB 14.5 (http://youtu.be/Jt_3aFOohB0)

Project 2.
Custom Turbo EG5 VTi JDM B16A2 (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?108143-New-Project-EG5-JDM-B16A2-Boost-%2856k-Modem-Warning%29) (Still going strong and ran a 12.2 with slicks and E85 power re-tune 180kw)
Power 161kw
1/4 Mile PB 13.2 (http://youtu.be/NZc1_i_NzrA)

Project 3. Current (Build type undecided)
EG5 project (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152300990106654.1073741825.688861653&type=1&l=0adf72ae2e)

D16 turbo blow up??????????????? LOL sif mate, all comes down to the tune! not sure why anyone would say that, ive been on one track day with my D16 an it hasnt 'blown' up yet..... anyways ur went bang for another reason

[Lukezen27]

D16 turbo blow up??????????????? LOL sif mate, all comes down to the tune! not sure why anyone would say that, ive been on one track day with my D16 an it hasnt 'blown' up yet..... anyways ur went bang for another reason

They say it because in a lot of cases its true lol

stock D16 SOHC con rods are weak

[Spoon-Accord]

Most of my close mates own a Honda

When I talk about my car going turbo, they say "Kenny bro don't do it, it's gonna blow up, Hondas are non turbo, and when you put turbo on it, too much pressure and blow up)

I was like.... Nahhhh, if I ran it with no tune or bodgy tune , then yes most likely it won't survive 10 minutes

But if I build it properly, proper tune, proper maintenance, it'll last .

Stereotypical I guess

[stndrd]

Need more static compression Kenny. Will give better torque than the low comp set up

[IEVAQ8]

Hey kenny....
Sorri for this...
But ur mates have NO FUKIN IDEA about hondas let alone turbo hondas...

[mugen_ctr]

Hey kenny....
Sorri for this...
But ur mates have NO FUKIN IDEA about hondas let alone turbo hondas...

+1

Honda + turbo = Greatest feeling cause most ppl dont expect it to go like the clappers lol

[Spoon-Accord]

Tom, don't blame you, I think that sometimes too, they've never been in one or know someone that's got one, hence the stereotypical attitude "Hondas are n/a, they aren't made for turbos"

And josh, did some more digging,

B18c2 block
10:5.1
B20 crank (eliminate oil squirters)
84mm sleeves (GE)
Wiseco pistons with s733 thicker wristpin
Skunk2 alpha rods

B16a head
Gsc t1 cams
Gsc matching valve springs and retainers
1mm oversize valves
Ports ported to match intake manifold and turbo manifold
Aftermarket intake manifold (haven't chosen one as yet)

Turbo is custom made by STC USA
Spoolin performance log,dp and dump (a/c and p/s friendly)
Tial wastegate 44mm
Greddy type s or tial BoV
3inch turbo back
Apexi quiet muffler

That's a rough guide atm, but the bottom end is pretty much set, looking forward to the 89mm stroke and 84mm bore setup. Apparently it helps a lot with the torque and low end pick up/spool

[stndrd]

We would use a different head combination if we were to do this sort of build in house

[connorling]

i think they hit the revv limiter for a sec or 2 before changing gear is that they might lose traction, if they change up as soon as they hit limter, the car will blog down in the next gear up, so they hit the limiter for a sec or 2 to give the tyres more time to "catch up"

[connorling]

http://imageshack.com/a/img855/7852/zo6h.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img545/4370/ww74.jpg

one quick question for you, bit off topic.
i took the rocket cover out and plan to install the oil catch can like yours.
there is a oil tray underneath and held by rivet by honda.
i drilled the rivet out and took the tray out, i drilled the two holes for the oil line fittings.
and what do i do to reinstall the oil tray, i read somewhere saying because the tray is made of different material to the rocket cover, so u cant weld it back in. and i dont wanna use rivet in case it become loose and drop into the head.
how did u do it/

[destrukshn]

I never took out the tray. Lol
Made a hole from the other side no problems.