s2000 and the new 86

[arcenite]

I figured I'd bring this up being that a second hand 86 GT in the market now costs roughly the same as a used S2000 ($23k++).

Anyone here driven both and could provide an opinion?

[charlie15]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jImHTWfj8aM

[pure_na]

^ above video is all you need to know.

[arcenite]

Yeah I've watched that video, but has anyone here actually driven/owned both?

[RenzokukenJ]

Pm dadar, he owns s2k, drove a 86 the other day

Said it was not as powerful, but still nice to drive

[curtis265]

every bit as sharp, but just more comfortable

[black8thgen]

I have driven both. Own an S drove a mate's BRZ. As curtis says, the BRZ is quite sharp and overall feels more 'refined' in terms of build quality, but has less of a 'racey' feel to it (obviously). Downside is it lacks power (quite a bit in my opinion) compared with the S. BRZ is however easier to drive and would probably be better for a daily driver in stop-start city traffic.

Personally however, I would choose to drive the S over the BRZ 99% of the time despite the S being a whole lot more uncomfortable.

[dove grey 64]

Driven both, id take the practicality of the 86 over the s2000 if daily driving is in the equation.
Both are great cars though

[arcenite]

I wonder what the timing differences are like on a track stock against stock. Anyone tried having a go to see the differences in lap timing?

[EP3TYPER]

I have also driven both, 86 is a better car in pretty much every way besides power. Also comes down to looks too, which is personal preference. The build quality of the 86 is amazing for the price though.

[charlie15]

Things are everywhere, I see more 86s than commodores these days. No way I'd consider one. But that's just me.

[arcenite]

I'd think it'll depreciate substantially next year when the newer model comes out in 2015, the GT's are taking quite a hit. After a month, I've seen prices from 30's drop to 25s.

That being said, anyone with the dough to own/track both?

[Torell]

From my understanding, the s2000 would accelerate quicker, and break quicker than the 86, and the 50 / 50 weight distribution would give it a total advantage on the track, both tight turns and wide turns.

Also there is practically no weight difference in the two cars, and i like to think you get more for $70,000.

In saying that, the condition of a second hand s2000 is really unknown so compared to a new 86 you may not have the same refinement or comfort in the s2ks suspension. Unfortunately i did test drive a couple of s2000 that drove like 70's MGs :(

[Ten Four]

I lost to an 86 on the track at barbs by .1 of a second long track... He had teins, cr kai's, intake, exhaust, semis and wasn't a noob (been many times). I had a stock s2k with old cracking bs potenzas and a catback on my first time out.

Feels good brah, lol

[Torell]

damn, semis and coilovers make a halladifferance

[arcenite]

I'd think the stock 86's suspension is pretty well setup already from factory, why change unless it were superior coilovers, aren't teins a budget coilover? If it were something like kw v3's or bilsteins set up specifically for the track then it would probably make it substantially superior to stock.

That being said, stock s2k suspension probably wouldn't perform as well as it would have as Torrell has mentioned. Semi's on the other hand... :o

[Ten Four]

I'm going to claim I am Takumi Fujiwara.

[arcenite]

I'm going to claim I am Takumi Fujiwara.

hahaha xD fair enough

[EKVTIR-T]

if the 86/brz was a 70k level car it would decimate s2k

as they are now its more of a celica level car with rwd even though its always compared to s2k

[philipminge]

ok so you want comfort - buy a new holden. buy a merc. buy a new honda accord euro.

you want a sports car... you must sacrifice comfort and practicality.

the BRZ/86 is a sharp car. i wouldnt say quality is more refined at all..... just newer with more features as the target the every day owner. sat nav, this and that.
the build quality of a honda s2000 from new is ridiculous. everything just work perfect.
they are easy to work on, easy to service, easy to change stuff like spark plugs, and you can basically get to most things on an s2k with little effort. were built for a purpose.... for someone who wants a raw performance car with blinkers.

there is not doubt the 86 drive nice - it does... its more comfortable because they kept in mind that the audience that they were targeting is so wide.... (old and young, someone who wants a sporty car feeling but still nice to drive. safe to drive.... easy to drive.

when they built the s2k... they must have said... lets make something that suits someone chasing the ultimate performace road car.
Its raw.... no features to distract the drive (sat nav, heated seats, cup holders(not meant to eat while sliding) nothing. from 99-05 you dont even get traction control. you get 2 fkn seats, 3 peddles and a gear stick.
you know why??? because when you get in a nice S..... thats all you need.... you dont need all the other shit... 1 mistake and it will bite your head off... its for someone who wants to drive... and only drive.

so if you want comfort and some practicality... a nice quiet ride.... nice looking ride.... something where power isnt any importance to you... get the 86. gorgeous looking car (they are everywhere but they are nice)

if you want to be on the edge of your seat when you throw a car into a corner... n hear an engine scream at 9k rpm.... get a s2....
if you wanna smash 98% of cars on the road and still want a rush but comfort.... get a GTR35....

peace! lol

[arcenite]

ok so you want comfort - buy a new holden. buy a merc. buy a new honda accord euro.

you want a sports car... you must sacrifice comfort and practicality.

the BRZ/86 is a sharp car. i wouldnt say quality is more refined at all..... just newer with more features as the target the every day owner. sat nav, this and that.
the build quality of a honda s2000 from new is ridiculous. everything just work perfect.
they are easy to work on, easy to service, easy to change stuff like spark plugs, and you can basically get to most things on an s2k with little effort. were built for a purpose.... for someone who wants a raw performance car with blinkers.

there is not doubt the 86 drive nice - it does... its more comfortable because they kept in mind that the audience that they were targeting is so wide.... (old and young, someone who wants a sporty car feeling but still nice to drive. safe to drive.... easy to drive.

when they built the s2k... they must have said... lets make something that suits someone chasing the ultimate performace road car.
Its raw.... no features to distract the drive (sat nav, heated seats, cup holders(not meant to eat while sliding) nothing. from 99-05 you dont even get traction control. you get 2 fkn seats, 3 peddles and a gear stick.
you know why??? because when you get in a nice S..... thats all you need.... you dont need all the other shit... 1 mistake and it will bite your head off... its for someone who wants to drive... and only drive.

so if you want comfort and some practicality... a nice quiet ride.... nice looking ride.... something where power isnt any importance to you... get the 86. gorgeous looking car (they are everywhere but they are nice)

if you want to be on the edge of your seat when you throw a car into a corner... n hear an engine scream at 9k rpm.... get a s2....
if you wanna smash 98% of cars on the road and still want a rush but comfort.... get a GTR35....

peace! lol


Hahaha spot on mate. This is a little random but... any idea where I could get a fire extinguisher bracket for the passenger seat by any chance?

[philipminge]

prob best to get one made.
what car you running an s2K???

and where do you want it mounted.
and what size extinguisher are you running??? photos!!!
take some pics and email me.

p.mingerulli@gmail.com

cheers

[amant02]

Why are the 86 and S2k even compared?

You can't buy a brand spanking new S2k anymore. I think the biggest reason why I'm not blowing all my savings away for a s2k atm, cos its 2nd hand and not new. Where as the 86/BRZ will be a virgin.

S2k cost 70k when new. top 86 only cost 48k?

thats a whopping 22k left over for you to play with 86 to squeeze that missing pull out of the motor. Trust me that 22k is more then enough.

I've taken both side ways.

[amant02]

My 2cents - If your currently buying sport car, would strong recommend 86/BRZ. Best bang for buck on the current new car market.

[Renaissance_x]

86 would probably lose value in the second hand market fast as their are so many on the roads.

[amant02]

86 would probably lose value in the second hand market fast as their are so many on the roads.

Of course.

Us honda fan boys will continue to keep prices of NSX/S2k and DC2R up high, cos we ballers yo.

[philipminge]

of course they are bang for buck... they are made for todays market. made to be affordable. moneys tight these days guys

but if you are tying to say that a BRZ feels better to drive than an s2k or handles better or has better performance in anyway, your on drugs.

the brz/86 are awesome cars. no doubt.... will be amazing if turbo charged
but the way an s2k handles... more of a go kart type feel. it reacts like a kart. its twitchy... you need fast reflexes to drive it hard. they are a RAW machine.

your not really comparing apples with apples. the cars were built for different purposes...

i prefer s2k for fun....

if i was driving anything more than 2 hours an 86 would be comfortable.

they are very under powered though. thats my main disappointment... and yeh you could spend the extra 22k on the motor go for it... but you kill engine life, can become unreliable and to get WORTH WHILE power you need to go FI. turbo it...

beauty about s2k..... Its ALL MOTOR... Tune then with bolt on mods and they come alive... no turbos or sc needed to have a sick time n 3rd gear drifts.

depends what your into. it all comes down to what people want from a car. 86 is a fun car. hands down. but motor is kinda boring....
f20c is one of the most amazing engines... with a 9k rpm limit from factory... talk about reliability. and they can cop abuse after abuse after abuse....
Dont care what anyone says.... no way an 86 motor will cop abuse like a f20c and be in the same condition after 150,000kms.

guy just bought an s2k with 186xxx on it.... motor comp test was 220 220 225 220....
not far off factory fresh... thats amazing!

i have driven subaru with that many kms... ones that are looked after are decent but dont feel as crisp as a honda motor.
many people buy s2k for the motor! its what you pay for...
the way its all made and goes together... so simple yet so effective.

try change spark plug 4 on a wrx... call me when you finish...
s2k - 10min n finished all 4.

cars were built for different target markets.

but i wouldnt say no to an 86 for a daily car.... im might go FI but would be sick fun!

sorry for the rant...

[charlie15]

Why are the 86 and S2k even compared?

You can't buy a brand spanking new S2k anymore. I think the biggest reason why I'm not blowing all my savings away for a s2k atm, cos its 2nd hand and not new. Where as the 86/BRZ will be a virgin.

S2k cost 70k when new. top 86 only cost 48k?

thats a whopping 22k left over for you to play with 86 to squeeze that missing pull out of the motor. Trust me that 22k is more then enough.

I've taken both side ways.

Who cares if it's second hand.

[amant02]

Who cares if it's second hand.

Woo this was a big feed for my troll side. Careful there lad.

Also strong agree phill, but then again like you said different cars for different markets. Different markets look after their cars differently.

[charlie15]

let's see what you got lol

[amant02]

Do you really believe everything you read on the add's.

Clean car, drives like a dream, etc etc.

Willing to my left nut on you buying a 2nd hand car and finding out a surprise a week later or so. Little or small, there is always something. Hidden Stain on the carpet, Hidden cum shots in the back seat list can go on.

Specially with 2nd Sport Cars. Given maybe 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000 maybe genuinely clean.

[EKVTIR-T]

personally I always inspect interiors with UV light prior to purchase

http://www.handyguyspodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/uv_stain.jpg

[amant02]

Ill make it easier for you.

You want virgin that hang like wizard sleeve?

[arcenite]

personally I always inspect interiors with UV light prior to purchase

http://www.handyguyspodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/uv_stain.jpg

that looks nasty hahaha

[AusS2000]

The 86s are a really nice car. A young new car buyers dream. And loads of potential to upgrade.

But for me it's still not a powerful convertible sports car.

[amant02]

The 86s are a really nice car. A young new car buyers dream. And loads of potential to upgrade.

But for me it's still not a powerful convertible sports car.

I get you now

[connorling]

S2000 seems and feel a nicer car imo.
I own a s2000 and drove the 86.

the backseats of the 86 are useless, might as well consider that as a 2 seater. the interior feel cheap in the 86, however I drove the base model 86.
s2000 is just more exciting to drive. 86 is just a nice smooth car, revv smoothly, just slow.

[arcenite]

I would be a little hesitant on getting an 86 since there'll be a revision soon which will most definitely drive prices down.

[Torell]

it wont change prices people, 86 is a good car and at a great price. how much lower does it need to go?

[curtis265]

it wont change prices people, 86 is a good car and at a great price. how much lower does it need to go?

Yes it will.

[amant02]

I would be a little hesitant on getting an 86 since there'll be a revision soon which will most definitely drive prices down.

inb4 sti ver wit the rexxie motor is for sale. or TRD supercharged V6.

[charlie15]

Yeah a revision with a turbo charger is apparently coming soon.

[arcenite]

it wont change prices people, 86 is a good car and at a great price. how much lower does it need to go?

It'll go down very quick mate, I poked around the 86 market for a bit. You can grab a GTS at around $30k after you bargain it down a bit. That's a fair bit of depreciation in such a short period. Plus a revision will come out shortly.

[RenzokukenJ]

S2000 seems and feel a nicer car imo.
I own a s2000 and drove the 86.

the backseats of the 86 are useless, might as well consider that as a 2 seater. the interior feel cheap in the 86, however I drove the base model 86.
s2000 is just more exciting to drive. 86 is just a nice smooth car, revv smoothly, just slow.

its just a newer prelude tbh brah

[Sean628]

celica

[DreadAngel]

it wont change prices people, 86 is a good car and at a great price. how much lower does it need to go?

I dunno...

Nice and light fun... Lacks sparkle and that special factor to make it a lasting impression... Its like a Golf GTi except FR in many respects...

[Torell]

its a base model sports car with room for improvements,

i hear people saying price will drop dramatically, however they have held their price well already.

if turbos and things get made for this car as a factory standard model or extra, then it will become easier to modify the earliest models henceforth value will keep

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

celica

IMO they buried the Celica when they released the ZR. If it had have come in a GT4 spec the die hard fans would have bought in.

I don't think the GT86 second hand price will fall hard unless low ballers win over the sellers.

[charlie15]

They will fall hard there are way too many 86's. Now with the turbo coming out more people will probably want that

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

Now with the turbo coming out more people will probably want that

Wasn't Australia already offered a factory supercharged 86 too?

I don't see the big deal, I'd rather order my Subaru online.

[amant02]

Inb4 porsche releases their ver.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/02/toyota-gt-86-could-get-porsche-engine.html

[curtis265]

Inb4 porsche releases their ver.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/02/toyota-gt-86-could-get-porsche-engine.html


Toyota GT 86 Could Get Porsche Engine
Luke Vandezande | Feb 02 2012, 5:02 PM

this clearly didn't happen in their release

[amant02]

this clearly didn't happen in their release

Party pooper. Ofcourse. Who would believe a site like that.

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

I'd love to see someone throw a 4age in there though..

[DreadAngel]

I'd love to see someone throw a 4age in there though..

Well... You see...

[amant02]

Well... You see...


The owner may not able to get rego. Major Road block.

[Renaissance_x]

I'd love to see someone throw a 4age in there though..

But why...?.?.. May as well go for a 4ac while youre down grading

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

May as well go for a 4ac while youre down grading

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/502789.jpg

[amant02]

Since this is ozhonda, the power of dreams.

Why not F20c or F22?

[DreadAngel]

But why...?.?.. May as well go for a 4ac while youre down grading

Its an upgrade buddy... FA20 is.............

Personally would drop in a 3S-GE Beams from an RS200 :)

[curtis265]

But why...?.?.. May as well go for a 4ac while youre down grading

do oyou really think it's a downgrade?

[amant02]

I think there was a SAE paper written on the 4AGE.

[Jasemas]

There was an SAE paper written on the F20c too :D

[amant02]

Yes there was.

Come to think of it even the SR20's had a SAE paper as well.

[amant02]

Yup I was right.

http://papers.sae.org/841298/

http://papers.sae.org/910431/

http://papers.sae.org/2000-01-0670/


Good read.

[fillit]

Anyone got a copy they can share?

[Omond]

I drag raced (only up to 90kph) a 86, my cars basically stock with just wheels & suspension & the 86 looked to have an exhaust and aftermarket wheels. I had a passenger and the 86 driver was on his own.

On both runs, I easily pulled away.

I have driven a 86 and agree with all the coments, good quality, handle well, but very slow. In saying that, you feel like your going faster than you really are in them, well thats my oppinion anyway.

[TheFranchise]

I currently own an 86 (it's up for sale later in the year) and i've driven an S2K. To be honest, i'd prefer the S2K, however it depends what you need the car for. Dont think you'll fit people in the back of the 86 (waste of a back seat imo) and even fitting shopping in it isn't the greatest. Yes it's slow in a straight line, however in the twisties or on the track it's great fun.
The reason i'm selling mine is I really need a 4 door car. The tuning potential of the 86 is getting better, heaps of suspension options and turbo/supercharger kits are out there now. So it can be "faster" if you want it to be. But, as I said earlier, i'd rock a S2K over the 86.

[lilthug]

I'd love to see someone throw a 4age in there though..

barry manon 9agte

if going down 4age route

[broidno]

An 86 will lose value constantly, the S2000 has already lost what it's gonna lose, if it goes down it'll go down a few grand and stay there until a new one comes out.

Since the S2000 will probably be some hybrid non vtec crap- maybe even fwd lol. It's not gonna go down anytime soon.. With the 86 not only are they bringing in variants but as a new vehicle with every year it literally loses what like 3k ? 4 years that's 12 grand in the bin!

The s2000 will lose $3k IN 3 years lol. And even that is a maybe!
S2000 is superior, more rare and cmon man its a roadster! who wants to be a bloody confined space with an 86 - slow and coupe.