S2000 to GT86 ?

[Parky]

Need some advise guys. I have an 2001 AP1 S2000 with 150,xxx kms. My intentions was to build a weekend/track car.

So far I have the following mods installed:

-Toda H/England with high flow cat
-Spoon snorkel with KN filter & gutted airbox
-Skunk larger throttle body
-Haltech EMS with tune
-Goodridge braided lines with track pads & fluid
-Enkei rpf1's

Now its getting to 14 years old and needs a respray, new top (hardtop maybe), new alarm and coilovers.

I was thinking of getting a new base GT 86 for $30k and adding I/H/E, tune, wheels and call it done. My thinking is it will be newer, more comfortable and cheaper to run.
I haven't driven one yet but i believe it will be a littler slower than the s2k and more predictable on the limit.

What are your thoughts. I am torn between my heart which says keep the s2k and strip it out and keep for a long time but need to be spending more ca$h on a 14 year old car with 150,xxx kms. Head says new GT86 and enjoy the new car and build slowly to my liking.

Please advise guys & keep it objective please..

[mocchi]

you dont wanna spend money on the s2k but wanna spend 30k+ for 86.

wat

[EKVTIR-T]

in for unbiased replys

[androo]

If you are worried about spending 5-8k on the S2000 fixing those issues and never getting your money back, just keep in mind you'll definitely lose out on depreciation on the new car anyway. Either way it's going to cost you. The final cost of ownership over another 5 years for either car assuming no major mechanical failures would be close (I would assume the S2000 would be cheaper overall).

It all comes down to which car you prefer. Go take an FT86 and test drive it. It honestly feels a fair bit slower than an S2000 stock, but it is a nice car so if you like it, that is all that matters. Don't use the cost as a justification though because it's backwards.

[sae]

I've driven an 86 and while i did like the steering feel, it is lifeless in comparison to the s2000. The interior is nice and it feels cozy however the overall package doesn't come close to the s2000. Ultimately your call but i'd say spend the money and keep the s2000

[Parky]

True if you factor in depreciation this would cost such as much as finishing the S2000 project. I guess my mind is telling me why am I spending another $6-8k on a 14 year old car with 150,000kms.

I guess taking a GT86 for a test drive is the only way to really decide this..

[curtis265]

Try if you factor in depreciation this would cost such as much as finishing the S2000 project. I guess my mind is telling me why am I spending another $6-8k on a 14 year old car with 150,000kms.

I guess taking a GT86 for a test drive is the only way to really decide this..

Definitely - drive it and that's the only way to determine what you'll want. You'll never get a decent opinion here.

You sound like you're already convinced anyway :)

[charlie15]

Sell ap1 buy ap2 :)

[EKVTIR-T]

Fd3s

/

[daevilone]

There is plenty of comparisons on the net between the two. They each do things better than the other.

On track the two are reasonably even, the s2000 has more power, but the 86 wins pretty well everywhere else.

Drive both, decide which you like best.

Though if money is a concern, keep the car you already have =)

[u mad?]

Fd3s

/
hehe das it mayne

[PJT]

If it's just for track and weekends. Don't see why you would buy new, for something you're drive hard and wear out more quickly than if was a DD. And if it's mostly track, would you really need to spend cash on new paint and alarm?

[Parky]

It's my only car and drive about 3 days a week. So it's not all out track car hence the need for a good alarm with all the expensive mods. I like my cars to be in top condition hence need for respray hehe.

So how would a modified s2k go against a similarly modified GT86?

[munster42]

It's my only car and drive about 3 days a week. So it's not all out track car hence the need for a good alarm with all the expensive mods. I like my cars to be in top condition hence need for respray hehe.

So how would a modified s2k go against a similarly modified GT86?


86 gets raped every time. they are slow and feel like it. plus everyone should know how hard it is to get good power out of a boxer without boosting it. Stick with the honda, spend some money, do a burnout.

[munster42]

86 gets raped every time. they are slow and feel like it. plus everyone should know how hard it is to get good power out of a boxer without boosting it. Stick with the honda, spend some money, do a burnout.

And to help with the unbiased side of things. I work for Toyota and when the 86 was coming out I was so eager. I got to drive the first one that came in and was disappointed. they just don't perform how you think they would. clutch is soft and horrible. suspension is too spongy.

Well all in personal opinion anyway

[PJT]

Oh , another thing, don't know how tall you are, but I'm 6'2" and my head scrapes the roof of an 86 when I've got helmet on. :(

[daevilone]

86 gets raped every time. they are slow and feel like it. plus everyone should know how hard it is to get good power out of a boxer without boosting it. Stick with the honda, spend some money, do a burnout.


No, not really...

it depends what is meant by modified. The big problem the s2000 has vs an 86 is aero. Stock 86 has much more aero than a stock bodied s2000, this makes up for a lot of the power difference around a track as an 86 can out corner s2ks. (assuming the 86 is off the god awful stock tyres and rims)

A lot of reports put the s2000 as more fun to drive, but not as much faster than an 86 as people would think.

there is plenty of information on this topic on the net and on S2ki. Including from people who have raced both.

but again, if you already own the S2000, it's a no brainer to keep it.

[neut]

Your comparing against a NEW car vs a car that was bloody released in 1999. Also your comparing a Hardtop car(86) vs a car that came out with a soft top. End of the day.. honda fkn wins. Been in both and s2000 gets my vote.

Although the new 86, they did a great job bringing back the Soft padded material on the dash etc.. because these days all new cars come with shitty feeling texture like plastic.

[EKVTIR-T]

Your comparing against a NEW car vs a car that was bloody released in 1999. FD rx7 is 1992 design and beats both in all areas,except for fuel economy of course

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

spend some money, do a burnout.

Regardless of your decision do this anyway.

[philipminge]

i believe that a 2009 86 against a 2008/9 s2k would get smashed in all areas. handling, braking, power, sliding, pulling bitches... the lot.. i have driven both... the 86 handles amazing.... easy to drive and very planted...

the ap2 is same but with more balls.... more responsive and aggressive. to have the 86 at the level of the s2000 you would need to spend decent cashola. my 2 cents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGj3oC-wPF0&feature=youtu.be&t=3m47s

watch this!!!!!!!!!! watch entire video!

he couldnt have said it better. the 86 is a "sporty car" but not a true "sportscar"

my opinion anyway guys. i love the 86.... but my god the s2 is really up there. its delish

[muzukashi]

S2000 over 86 in many many ways, give it a few years the 86 will depreciate and will go for roughly the same value as a well maintained S2000.
Bear in mind we're talking cars from 2012-2014 vs 1999-2007.

Same shit is gonna happen to the 86 as it did to the FN2R - Appealed to the younger crowd who had a bit more cash to spend and wanted something newer.
After owning it for x years they realize its now super common and its depreciated as with anything but obviously being newer they are the ones who unfortunately cop the 5-10k depreciation. The amount of white 86s in Western Sydney is ridiculous .

Unless you ABSOLUTELY needed 4 seats or you have something for the aesthetics of the 86 - you'd be crazy to take the 86 over the S2000.

[dougie_504]

Driven a BRZ a handful of times, with CAI and exhaust.

Have to say, it's an extremely gutless car. Fanboys can hide behind the 'it's not supposed to be fast, it's a fun car to drift!' line all they want but the fact remains that it's too slow to be what I call a fun sports car..

Apparently the E85 conversion is great for the mid-range power they seriously lack. Or stick a turbo/SC on it etc.

Besides that I don't like the fact that they run skinny wheels with crappy Prius tyres either. Same thing with the fanboys, apparently that makes it more fun, but honestly in the wet it's just plain dangerous being on such a crap wheel/tyre setup in that kind of car.


Take one for a test drive. But IMO stick to the S2000.

[chez00]

I actually despise the 86/BRZ in anything like standard form. I have driven one on an extended test drive, and also been shotgun in a couple. The engine performance is jaw-droppingly bad, it feels full of torque holes throughout the range. The gearbox is notchy and never really gets better with warmth. The clutch drags out of the factory making this way worse than it should be though, and can be adjusted. The interior looks ripped out of the corolla and probably is. They are fun to belt through corners because they do go where you point them - and this is what gets people excited about them. With new bushes (particularly the diff rubbers) the S2000 does that too.

The stock rims are the second ugliest on the road and only lose out to those god-awful Subaru XV rims (obviously spat out of the same factory). The garish TRD body kits make them look like a Hyundai coupe.

But hey we're comparing a car that's not that much more expensive than a Corolla so what can you expect?

IMO, stick to the S2000 which will be a genuine classic in the future. I think they still drive like not a lot else out there.

[philipminge]

Lmfao. Anddddddd snap. Points well made

[dougie_504]

Good points chez. Ugly as hell wheels.

And a LOT of owners have notchy gearboxes.

[PJT]

Gt86 rims make baby Jesus cry.

[mocchi]

Gt86 rims make baby Jesus cry.

lmao

theyre really ugly yh

[integraR]

Gt86 rims make baby Jesus cry.

I agree
it's funny that the more expensive GTS model with 17' looks uglier than the lower spec GT with 16' tho

http://www.carshowroom.com.au/articlephoto/550/20120605151946831.jpg

http://sacarfan.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/toyota-86-8.jpg

[muzukashi]

I agree
it's funny that the more expensive GTS model with 17' looks uglier than the lower spec GT with 16' tho


agreed, the GTS model wheels looks like something incubus wheels would make.

[xgsir]

The 17" wheels ain't that bad on the GTS....

[dougie_504]

Bro they're hideous

[Vvvtec]

When i first saw them i genuinely thought they were bob jane specials. Feral oem choice

[curtis265]

reminded me so much of dese badboys

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2527/photozen.jpg

[Vvvtec]

EXACTLY those lol

[EKVTIR-T]

yes looks bit like those baboys

whoever signed off on the oem weels needs sack

[integraR]

they make them look feral so that we buy THEIR optional rims

so they can make YMCMB

[pure_na]

imo you fall under a very simple group of car enthusiasts - we like modding cars, we don't like repairing cars. new suspension = mod. new roof because huntsmen are climbing in through the old one = repairs.

your thinking is not newer, more comfortable and cheaper to run, your thinking is "it will be clean. any mods i do will make it better rather than simply bringing it up to my standard"

decide whether you want your track car or your clean car. financially the change is not worth it for a track car. arguably, it is for a clean car depending on your definition of clean (how much it will cost to clean up the s2k).

[Parky]

I am going to test drive it this weekend. I'll let you guys know what i think of the car.

[dougie_504]

So, thoughts? Is slow as, yeah?

[PJT]

I think the fact that a decent 10 year old s2k costs as much as a fully optioned brand new 86 tells you a bit about the difference in quality. Plus it's a honda :)

[Torell]

guys, sprintex and jackson racing makes a bolt on supercharger kit for the 86's which give about 40% more power. Im looking into putting one on my jazz atm, but would love to throw one on an 86 for some fun!

[curtis265]

guys, sprintex and jackson racing makes a bolt on supercharger kit for the 86's which give about 40% more power. Im looking into putting one on my jazz atm, but would love to throw one on an 86 for some fun!

why would you supercharge your jazz over your s2000?

[DreadAngel]

Cause he's special lol =P

[Fredoops]

LS V8 Swap 86
http://frsbrzperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/subaru-brz-ls2-engine-swap.jpg

OR

LS V8 Swap S2K
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b261/subiedude03/HPIM0299.jpg


watch them jdm tears lmfao

[integraR]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?183563-MY00-S2000-with-2JZGTE-conversion

dis one betta with 2 jay z

[Jasemas]

guys, sprintex and jackson racing makes a bolt on supercharger kit for the 86's which give about 40% more power. Im looking into putting one on my jazz atm, but would love to throw one on an 86 for some fun!

LInks plz :P

[Baby Face]

if you want to keep it easy to road rego then would keep the s2k. will make more power then 86 without doing something engine wise.

if you get the FT86 everything you have done to your s2k is a waste, would have to redo them + the price of the car.

a good set of coils will help change the unpredictability of the s2k, adjusting its over-under steer balance.
the 86 makes easy driving by having a low center of weight and soft suspension makes it less likely to snap without warning, also it has less power so it break lose out of a corner as easy.

theres a video of a BRZ following a S2k and they show the difference, the BRZ has its strengths, in the tighter spots the s2k rotates better etc, and brz is easier to control with more aero.
one part where the S2000 becomes hard to control is probably due to lack of downforce and just having more power on the exit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaArJZOMCpI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9_hZqvY5RM

[connorling]

i would never sell my s2000 for a 86.

i wouldnt even sell my daily or my civic eg for the 86.

[Torell]

i wouldnt boost the s2k not a chance, i was this close to some toda itbs tho... but im selling it now, so boost the jazz!

for whoever asked last page: sprintex.com.au

[curtis265]

i wouldnt boost the s2k not a chance, i was this close to some toda itbs tho... but im selling it now, so boost the jazz!

for whoever asked last page: sprintex.com.au

selling?

what your s2000? Already?

[amant02]

i wouldnt boost the s2k not a chance, i was this close to some toda itbs tho... but im selling it now, so boost the jazz!

for whoever asked last page: sprintex.com.au

Yeh i was gonna say, why bother sourcing a JRSC when sprintex good ol aussie company.
But then again, why go supercharger route, when turbo is cheaper and better. Easier to get results.
You like the idea of linear power delivery?

[neut]

Supercharger ftw. Linear power delivery! will be going down this route with my Kswap if i were to ever to it up.

[connorling]

Yeh i was gonna say, why bother sourcing a JRSC when sprintex good ol aussie company.
But then again, why go supercharger route, when turbo is cheaper and better. Easier to get results.
You like the idea of linear power delivery?

u will have more heating problem than a supercharger.


Supercharger ftw. Linear power delivery! will be going down this route with my Kswap if i were to ever to it up.

there is root supercharger for the K engine however there isnt for the F20/22c
so even a supercharged s2000 can still feel laggy like a turbo.

[curtis265]

Yeh i was gonna say, why bother sourcing a JRSC when sprintex good ol aussie company.
But then again, why go supercharger route, when turbo is cheaper and better. Easier to get results.
You like the idea of linear power delivery?

turbo's got a lot more custom work involved

[Torell]

where to i start? the jazz wont b a beast, or atleast mine wont! supercharger with tune doesn't require new exhaust or header and cos of the pre tune sprintex offers, ill save 2k on tuning... so i think its cheaper than a turbo? :) besides, looks like fun.

And yeh, selling s2k :( had her for 3 years! but i have to sell to cover my cost of buying the family jazz! sad times but oh well. SC should ease some pain

[curtis265]

where to i start? the jazz wont b a beast, or atleast mine wont! supercharger with tune doesn't require new exhaust or header and cos of the pre tune sprintex offers, ill save 2k on tuning... so i think its cheaper than a turbo? :) besides, looks like fun.

And yeh, selling s2k :( had her for 3 years! but i have to sell to cover my cost of buying the family jazz! sad times but oh well. SC should ease some pain

OH sorry i mixed you up with another user haha

Best of luck.

What's this pretune? A whole new ECU or something? Don't need to upgrade the map sensor or anything?

[Torell]

not a whole new ECU, they call their unit 'interceptor' i believe, which works in unison (a little splicing). has pretuned map apparently, for a completely stock ge8. im pretty sure (dont quote me), that you use all your standard sensors, and they supply an additional one which will need installing on the intake side of things which works with the interceptor to get the info it needs. ill do a build thread when it arrives and list as i learn. im no pro fyi

[Fredoops]

^^^ so like a piggyback?

[curtis265]

from here: http://www.sprintex.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Honda-Jazz-2013.pdf

looks like good gains!

couldn't find any info on this intercepter though.. I'm curious!

[connorling]

u do not want piggyback to run force induction.

[curtis265]

What's the problem? Hondata is arguably a piggyback

[Baby Face]

if you want haltech can do it!

http://www.haltech.com/its-a-spartan/

but i seen these sprintex chargers before, very appealing being australian and so cheap such an easy install

[Torell]

thread officially hijacked!

[Jasemas]

if you want haltech can do it!

http://www.haltech.com/its-a-spartan/

but i seen these sprintex chargers before, very appealing being australian and so cheap such an easy install

Oh shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[amant02]

Whoa, I must have my information wrong.

Cos swear last time i checked.

Twin Scrolls suffer more from heat.

Sure there is alot of custom piping, but a descent size charger won't be cheap either.

Also don't matter which way you choose man, you will need to get ur own tune. Even thou the L15a is mass produced, your L15a maybe miles apart from my L15 or from the L15 they RND the Charger on. Hence individual tuning will be required.

Check out all the L15's in states and Malay. All turbo.

They will both cost around the same, they both will make similar peak power, one will just deliver the offt earlier.

But then again the other will squeal. Love that charger squeal.

[Jasemas]

Need the JDM DOHC L15B yo!

[Torell]

Also don't matter which way you choose man, you will need to get ur own tune. Even thou the L15a is mass produced, your L15a maybe miles apart from my L15 or from the L15 they RND the Charger on. Hence individual tuning will be required.

Check out all the L15's in states and Malay. All turbo.

But then again the other will squeal. Love that charger squeal.

aus company running base map for an aus L15 im going to guess its going to be a pretty good tune. also, its for a ge8 which should narrow down the engine differences a little. and its just a matter of getting about 5 pounds of boost safely. shouldnt be too hard with a tune so im going to guess their tune will be safe :) will keep you posted. they have done over 20,000 miles they reckon on an otherwise stock ge8.

and yeh small charger small turbo doesnt matter only 5 pounds :) from what ive read online and heard, tuning is the most expensive individual part of the boosting so going for a "kit" with a pre tune or piggy back, would be where the savings are. tho they highly recommend a custom tune if you change your whole exhaust or anything else which might make a noticeable difference.

[Jasemas]

CR of 10.1:1 - not much wiggle room for error
What fuel do you need - 98? or E85?

[curtis265]

highly doubt it would be an e85 tune

[Baby Face]

definately not e85 tune lol

probably still running 95, maybe they have set the new tune to 98 so its a lil safer from pinging.

the charger is low boost comparatively and probably isn't the perfect tune as well but its gonna be close enough while being safe. that kind of sacrifice. if you want a better tune you would need a flash pro i think, if you do you can upgrade a lil more. bigger injectors, new pulley for more boost.

[Torell]

its tuned for 95. wont work so well with e85 although the jazz does support that fuel. it would be easy enough to change things around to get 10 pounds of boost, and run on e85 and retune. but lets take one step at a time :P i've already picked up different spark plugs and i always run 98 octane so boost should be safe

[amant02]

its tuned for 95. wont work so well with e85 although the jazz does support that fuel. it would be easy enough to change things around to get 10 pounds of boost, and run on e85 and retune. but lets take one step at a time :P i've already picked up different spark plugs and i always run 98 octane so boost should be safe

Do it man, atleast we will have some real feedback about the product.

So what if you blow your L15. They are dirt cheap.

[Torell]

waiting for s2k to sell, and stock to arrive :)