Pod / exhaust - ill effects

[Vti-S JAZZ]

I am considering adding a Cold air intake, pod and a exhaust (muffler only) mostly for cosmetics and audible effect (as the stock as a rock jazz is a tad boring after my last few cars, although as reliable as can be-hence the purchase)

I would like to know, if i will loose low down driveability and torque

the reason i ask is i tow a boat every 2nd weekend and don’t want to loose the ability of taking off with a fully loaded up jazz (its true, it really is used to tow the boat)

So what’s the disadvantage of such mods?
and are these parts available locally for the Vti-s (pod, pipe, and muffler - bolt on)

cheers
Ben

[Chi]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/search.php?

[Vti-S JAZZ]

I have tried the search and the sticky post "re: Useful info" however most of the purchases seem to be from overseas, I would prefer a local source, and regarding the exhausts most people i assume in the search results i looked through have more than just a muffler, rather a larger system, which i already know will effect the low down response. but will just a larger muffler reduce backpressure and hence effect this.

thanks for pointing out the search function however

[Tony]

muli's car has a similar setup, he's got pod filter and stock exhaust. I have driven that car for about 5 minutes and I don't think there's any power loss in the low end at all. There's a signification gain in top end (> 4000rpm)

[Vti-S JAZZ]

great, thanks

does one need to replace the cat back exhaust in order to obtain a nice exhaust note, or will a simple muffler swap do the job?

cheers

[Geoffy]

muffler just the tip won't give u a nice sound... u need at least axle back... I'm gettin b piping for mine next week...

[Geoffy]

As for CAI I want one too... Anyone recommend a brand? price?

[ahcash]

muffler just the tip won't give u a nice sound... u need at least axle back... I'm gettin b piping for mine next week...


Geoff, Muffler does give you good note...

[Jus-10]

You will be fine

[Vti-S JAZZ]

good because i dont overly want to get a larger exhaust, at this stage, not sure if there would be much performance benifit V cost

[Jus-10]

I got about 10% increase in power at the wheels from exhaust and intake....

Changing the rear muffler will give you the noise but pretty much no performance gain/loss.

When i fitted my Apexi intake on an otherwise stock car I didn't notice any loss of power, but improved top-end as Tony said.

[TypeG]

Some ppl do said power loss for pod tho
depends, just come to the meeting on 25/4 and Danny will explain to u in deep as he swap from stock to pod and pod back to stockbox and then back pod after he got header and exhuast

[EuroAccord13]

When using a Pod, the low end will suffer abit but the top end will improve, so if you're towing a boat.. I won't suggest you go for a pod but a panel.

As for the muffler, you want noise or power? If you're after the aesthetics like you mentioned, go buy a lukey or X-force, audible but not incredibly powerful at all in terms of added ommmph....

[Vti-S JAZZ]

If i can get a mig for a while i might make a pipe up, and if it works well i can make a few more (first is the hardest, after that its easy)

I did all my own intercooler pipes and exhaust on my last few cars, however i sold the mig DOH and was going to get a tig, but dont have the money or use it enough at the moment

[edw-R]

Cold air intake is good for any car.

[08ESE]

performance will suffer if you have the pod getting its air straight off the thermo fans / radiator!!!

i put my pod near the inner guard where the air feeds the factory airbox, its picked up from the front bar.

The pod made a BIG difference on my car, and i put a $125 autotechnica muffler on mine ( axle back ) and its by no means noisy, but sounds MUCH bigger than a 1.3L !!

[TypeG]

join our cruise 08ESE

[spoon fit]

where is Townsville?

[ahcash]

not in melbourne or victoria...

[spoon fit]

join our cruise 08ESE

then how can he join?

[TypeG]

lol
i just saw he got LIKE a Vic plate in black
sorry

[spoon fit]

haha...no worry
how many ppls we have now?

[ahcash]

The Townsville region, with a population of approx. 146,000 is widely regarded as the capital of North Queensland. Townsville provides the northern link for State and Federal Governments, as well as for private enterprise in primary and secondary industries, mining, commerce, retail, and community and cultural services.

Back to the Topic...




performance will suffer if you have the pod getting its air straight off the thermo fans / radiator!!!

i put my pod near the inner guard where the air feeds the factory airbox, its picked up from the front bar.



08ESE, can you take a picture of your CAI air feed.. It will be interesting to see how you did it .. I am thinking about it.. but don't know where to start... :D

[petrovski]

i tow a boat with mine and it does fine, i guess it would weigh 600-700kg all up

but it does the job and i had a pod on when i was doing it

Pete :)

[MRFIT]

first of all..... tow a boat with the jazz...... feeling tired just thinking about it.... :D

well...... this is what I think, if u r just after some good exhaust note, changing the muffler alone will do the job, and I haven't tried POD filter on my car yet, but I am using a aftermarket airbox similar to the stock airbox, and not only it didn't lose any low-end power, it actually made the car smoother for city driving..... :)

[TypeG]

man, yr airbox is tested and reviewed in magazine

[muli]

ill scan my dyno sheet when i go to my oldies house next time, here's few piccies of my pod
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=1288

[Vti-S JAZZ]

some nice welding there!, you do it yourself? thats almost exactly what i was thinking of welding up, although i will be limited to painted Mild Steel (only a mates mig)

[**Ghost**]

that looks awesome can ud o mine? :)

[muli]

i wouldnt get painted steel as its not as efficient as bare steel would be, i had mine done by a exhaust shop

[Vti-S JAZZ]

i mean mild steal, but paint it matt black for heat transfer and stop it rusting/standing out in the engine bay. poor mans AL pipe :)

[08ESE]

08ESE, can you take a picture of your CAI air feed.. It will be interesting to see how you did it .. I am thinking about it.. but don't know where to start... :D


I would, but as i have to sell my baby, the std air box went back on. I will say, it looked DODGY but worked well. It was 2 pvc pipe bends, with a straight peice of pipe in the middle and a uni sock on the end.

[muli]

i mean mild steal, but paint it matt black for heat transfer and stop it rusting/standing out in the engine bay. poor mans AL pipe :)

if the pipe is painted it wont run as cool as same pipe that isnt painted

[MRFIT]

man, yr airbox is tested and reviewed in magazine

is it? is it on the Option Fan magazine? let me have a look next time.... :)

[Vti-S JAZZ]

muli, what sort of temp difference are you talking though, in the one degree mark? or tens of degrees

I did some testing at my last job where we were looking at the effect of surface prep eg paint, bare and polished and there was minimal change, and could not measure it via the air temp because of the volume of air, the difference was so minimal.

however I take your point, but I don’t want a rusty pipe in the engine bay ... might degrade the look somewhat :)
cheers

On my last car i ran insulation around the pipe as it crossed the turbo and engine, looked bad, but that engine bay was all go no show, my jazz is different however

[Jus-10]

Some pre-lim testing on the intake for the Jazz is showing little to no loss in the bottom end for the Apexi unit, but noticeable gains in the top half. This seems to match the comments from those that have used the Apexi intake.

Hopefully by the end of next week we should have have a detailed comparison (dyno printout) between the OEM box, Apexi and the all new, TODA AU/Ruf Performance developed intake. It should make it a bit easier for everyone to decide what they want to do...

[ahcash]

Some pre-lim testing on the intake for the Jazz is showing little to no loss in the bottom end for the Apexi unit, but noticeable gains in the top half. This seems to match the comments from those that have used the Apexi intake.

Hopefully by the end of next week we should have have a detailed comparison (dyno printout) between the OEM box, Apexi and the all new, TODA AU/Ruf Performance developed intake. It should make it a bit easier for everyone to decide what they want to do...


Jus, if possible.. picture as well.. Thanks.

[Jus-10]

Oh yeah, for sure!

[MaxiJazz]

whatever happened to the rest of this thread.....seemed like it just ceased to continue..??? And the conclusion is...????? Arrrggghhh....! Frustrating.....

Im a newbie who is really confused over the issue of installing a CAI......

Now...all I want to know is if there are any reputable Mod-Shops that I can consult here in perth on the issue of a CAI kit.....

Can anyone help me here..????

[Jus-10]

The results were posted elsewhere....

CAI is simple....cold air feed from the front of the car. I am not going to go over everything AGAIN because, becasue simply, all the other magazine warriors who are generally more concerned with cosmetic mods know better apparently...

Just do a search man and you will see the results that Ruf obtained with my kit speak for themselves (or so one would think)

[MaxiJazz]

Thanks Jus-10....but I wasnt quite referring to not understanding how CAI works.....What i was after was where i could get hold of a full kit that I can install in my Jazz.....

Further to that...I was aslo looking for advice on whether there were any reputable Mod shops in Perth i could consult......

Thanks for the support Jus-10

[rev-tech]

just a thought on this topic.
When doing things like exhaust and intake, the engine is not actually producing more power.
It's just re-gaining the power that was lost in the restrictions put in place from the factory.
Thats why some engines will not have a very big increase when doing these mods. They came quite well designed from the factory. ie some VTEC/MIVEC engines, BMW's come out with quite good headers but a restrictive exhaust. The Gen3 LS1 engines have a shit inlet, there's an increase of something like 20-50hp@wheels with a decent inlet on.

once you start re-programming/boosting etc it's a different story though :)

Shane

[panda]

to be honest, for cosmetics i would go for low down springs, wheels and kit, who will ever see your pod when you are driving, and face it an aftermarket exhaust and muffler will always be more noisey and use more fuel :rolleyes:

[MR Spyder]

Looking for Open Pod kit for your Jazz? Pm me... I can help u with it. :)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid178/p5bcc8c6e9ab3a7e0c2b4f6a73128def9/f3293561.jpg

*PS*: If the pic doesn't show, go here..
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid178/p5bcc8c6e9ab3a7e0c2b4f6a73128def9/f3293561.jpg

[MR Spyder]

Can anyone help me with the pic, pls? There it goes again.. Giving me a big "X" all over again.. Grrr.. :(

[papaya]

Can anyone help me with the pic, pls? There it goes again.. Giving me a big "X" all over again.. Grrr.. :(

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4332/f32935618eo.jpg

Looks good Mr spyder.. How much SG$ ?

[MR Spyder]

papaya.. Thanks!! :)

[rev-tech]

face it an aftermarket exhaust and muffler will always be more noisey and use more fuel :rolleyes:

how will an aftermarket exhaust use more fuel?

ACTUALLY if you get a proper set of extractors and an exhaust to suit you should improve your fuel economy as it's helping the engine run more efficiently but "sucking" the exhaust out of the cylinder.

[Andys]

how will an aftermarket exhaust use more fuel?

Because you end up with an N1 exhaust that sounds so sweet at 4000rpm that you end up driving around in 3000-4000 rpm all the time :D

- Andrew

[MR Spyder]

Hahahaha.. good one!!

[strepto]

Ádding an aftermarket intake system will increase the fuel consumption. The reason is easy. Your ECU uses the output of the primary O2 sensor to calculate injector Duty Cycle. This is done in whats called a Closed Loop operation - a part of the OBD1 and OBD2 systems.

In Closed Loop Mode - the ECU will use the output of the O2 sensor to correct the fuel injectors output to match an Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) of 14.7 units of air, to 1 unit of fuel. An AFR @ 14.7:1 is called Stoich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoichiometric). This is the point where the blend of fuel and oxygen is optimalized to perform its best without running either too rich (too much fuel), or too lean (less fuel). The lower the AFR value, the more fuel is consumed.

When you add a new performace intake system the engine gets more air. ECU will get a feedback from the primary O2 sensor saying that "Hey, I got more Air today, toss in some fuel there!" and ECU increases the Duty Cycle of the injector - thus adding fuel.

Closed Loop operations are usually located between 1500 and 4000 RPMs. On the higher revs the ECU uses static maps programmed into the ECU to calculate injector Duty Cycle. This is called Open Loop. Regardless of amount of air entering the engine, the ECU will tell the injectors to spray the same amount of fuel. This causes another problem with the aftermarket intake.

The stock ECU has its fuel and ignition maps made based on the stock intake, and the supplied air the stock intake can take - ofcourse with a certain degree of variation based on climate, temerature, etc. When you add a new intake to the car, which gives the engine more air - you can end up running lean on the higher RPMs. Ultimately - this can cause the engine to overheat and in rare cases die on you due to overheating (high AFR causes more heat). A more common problem is engine knock and reduced performance from the engine.

This is why even the most basic performance boltons MUST be tuned to perform its best.

[Shraka]

Interesting stuff strepto...

Do all Hondas / cars use open loop at high RPM?

And I heard that at low RPM engines actualy go under stoich for better economy? And at high RPM, they start running rich to preserve the engine and keep it cool (especialy in turbo cars).

I know a friend of mine added a bigger turbo to his SR20 and it started running REAL rich up high, so he had to tune it back and let the computer know that the extra 10 pound of boost it was getting was "okay" and not to totaly freak out. lol.

EDIT: or did something trip limp mode and make the SR20 run rich that way?

me = confused.

[strepto]

All the OBDx ECUs come with whats called a "Limp Home" function. This is a basic set of ECU instructions that enables the car to run, even tho something is wrong with it. Its just a really retarded ignition map, and a really rich fuelmap which enables the car to run - even tho it wont be running very good. Just so that you can actually drive the car. The ECU will go into Limp Home Mode when CEL is lit (there are a few exceptions..).