Genuine questions in regards to purchasing a new car.

[Lemon]

Hey guys,

This is my first post, i have read many of the threads on this forum to aid in my research of honda's.

I have come to a bit of a dead end.

I sold my car and need another one, i have decided to go with honda because i never pay people to work on my cars because i prefer to do everything myself. I am impressed by the K series motors being NA and putting out some seriously impressive power figures compared to other higher displacement engines.

Basically i cant decide between a DC5R (AUDM version with k20a2), EP3r, FN2r, DC2r and lastly the odd cl9.

The information that i have been able to find after countless hours of research is that the k20 series of engines are considered the 'real' performance series form honda. The ep3r has the k20a (jdm) which puts out more power than the rest. The DC2r doesnt have a K series engine but i am still interested in them due to reading in countless forums that they provide a very connected driving experience.

I couldnt care less about luxury, i look at driving feedback, mechanical reliability and the car having a mod friendly setup.

Most will say if you want power and mods go turbo, but NO, i dont want to go turbo. I prefer to get as much power as i can with NA, spending more money in the process but i am happy spending that on something i in the end will be very proud of.

I have driven the FN2r which was quick to a certain extent, but felt shaded from a connected driving experience. The Ep3r was basically like a go-kart with a lot of power even at stock, the dc5r was also very precise and gave good feedback with a bit less power. The cl9 was not great on power but i see a lot of potential(and they sexiii). The only car i havnt driven is the dc2r.

The cl9 with the audm K24a3 LEV seems to be weighted towards an economical drive, im not sure what i would have to do to unlock the power of the extra .4l of displacement while removing the emission reducing components and replacing them.

This shouldnt be seen as another which is better thread, i am simply asking opinions based on experience and knowledge as to which of these cars will be mod friendly, quick, great driving feedback and also looks good(i dont like the rice look).


Thanks,
Ian

(PS: its bloody hard to find a clean dc5r under 15k...)

[Drifter995]

ep3r has k20a2, which is the european engine here in aust. Less powerful than the k20a. Same engine in the dc5r audm apparently.
fn2r's audm version is awful. Torsion rear end. If you want good handling, dump that right at the bottom of the list. It's also slower than the ep3r, despite having more power iirc.
dc2r is a very good car. Amazing handling, good amount of power. Solid engine.
cl9 is an odd mix to the group.


Ok, all are good choices in regards to driving feedback (bar the fn2) and reliability as far as I'm aware. And all are good for mods.

Now, out of those choices, the ep3r and dc2r come at the very top for me. Best platforms. Handle the best out of the lot, have the most go (dc2r isn't heaps, but it's still pretty bloody fun).
Now, you can build any of the above cars to be all motor power houses. Only downside is that all motor na costs a lot of money to get good power, if you want that. Which is why lots of people go turbo. Cheap power.

One other option I'd throw into the spanner would be something like a vtir or type r integra (dc2) with a k20 in it. It'll cost a lot, but in the end, it'll have a lot more power. Another option is h2b. Cheaper, another good option. Parts for h22's aren't in as good supply as the k, and they aren't as good as a k, but, they still make some pretty decent power. But, you're more likely to find an h22a vtir with a fair few good mods around the cost of a type r.

But yeah, personally, I'd choose either a dc2 vtir with some work done, a dc2r, or an ep3r. dc5r following that, and cl9 after that (not very fast, engine isn't anywhere near as good as the k20. Heavy, very boaty. Good for daily duties and show work, can give a bit of power for fun, but not the best at handling.)

[Jasemas]

I'd go with the cl9
Noone suspects a euro heheh
Especially that torque up high

[curtis265]

If you like the euro chassis the most then get one...

Then, build a frankenstein motor (see vvvtec's dc2 build thread), get the right transmission ratios and bob's your uncle

[u mad?]

ep3r has k20a2, which is the european engine here in aust. Less powerful than the k20a. Same engine in the dc5r audm apparently.
fn2r's audm version is awful. Torsion rear end. If you want good handling, dump that right at the bottom of the list. It's also slower than the ep3r, despite having more power iirc.
dc2r is a very good car. Amazing handling, good amount of power. Solid engine.
cl9 is an odd mix to the group.


Ok, all are good choices in regards to driving feedback (bar the fn2) and reliability as far as I'm aware. And all are good for mods.

Now, out of those choices, the ep3r and dc2r come at the very top for me. Best platforms. Handle the best out of the lot, have the most go (dc2r isn't heaps, but it's still pretty bloody fun).
Now, you can build any of the above cars to be all motor power houses. Only downside is that all motor na costs a lot of money to get good power, if you want that. Which is why lots of people go turbo. Cheap power.

One other option I'd throw into the spanner would be something like a vtir or type r integra (dc2) with a k20 in it. It'll cost a lot, but in the end, it'll have a lot more power. Another option is h2b. Cheaper, another good option. Parts for h22's aren't in as good supply as the k, and they aren't as good as a k, but, they still make some pretty decent power. But, you're more likely to find an h22a vtir with a fair few good mods around the cost of a type r.

But yeah, personally, I'd choose either a dc2 vtir with some work done, a dc2r, or an ep3r. dc5r following that, and cl9 after that (not very fast, engine isn't anywhere near as good as the k20. Heavy, very boaty. Good for daily duties and show work, can give a bit of power for fun, but not the best at handling.)
jdm ep3r has the proper k20a

op, you want a k series, you want a dc2r


............






















see where im going with this hehe

[Drifter995]

jdm ep3r has the proper k20a

op, you want a k series, you want a dc2r


............






















see where im going with this hehe

I know jdm does, thus why I said here in aus we have the euro version :p

But yes, k series dc2 pls

[RenzokukenJ]

i like lemons

[Lemon]

Hey guys thanks for the input, i have decided to go with a cl9 regardless of how boaty it is. I decided to do this because it has a lot more potential than the other options. The higher displacement will allow me to get more power, i can mod the driveline and suspension to get rid of the slop and get closer to what i am looking for.

This should be fun, and its a win win because its another project car to spend time on.

Thanks,
Ian.

[u mad?]

its got the least potential of all the others

[Lemon]

Not from the research i have done. A stock cl9 up against a dc5r stock ends with the cl9 winning. Thats stock, intake, exhaust, supercharger, etc..

I could upgrade the heads to a type r head, get rid of the lev components. In my eyes this car will probably cost more and use more time, but itll be madd by then end.

[RenzokukenJ]

fuk yh sounds ballin

hope u can rip on kunts n mak dem wish dey didt buy holden

[Drifter995]

cl9 shouldn't be faster than a dc5r. Especially considering it has like 20hp less. and only 24ftpound of torque. the cl9 also weighs at least 200kg more, and has longer gears iirc.

Realistically, the 24 isn't as good as the 20a, and it's box isn't as good. But, you can make a 24/20 frank, using a type r box, and you might be able to have a bit of fun. You'll struggle to get it to handle anywhere near as well as the others

[Lemon]

The cl9 is at the rear door of the dc5r until end of 3rd gear, after that the cl9 starts pulling away until beating the dc5r. This is due to the higher top end. Still acceleration is very close.

In terms of handling some mods will help, obviously wont be as good as the rac style chassis the type r has but i reckon it will do the job.
And a k24/k20 frank is exactly what i am planning to do.

[Jasemas]

Didn't Richos cl9 make 170 whp at Perth Honda Club's dyno day Renzo?

[RenzokukenJ]

Fark can't remember lad

[curtis265]

Didn't Richos cl9 make 170 whp at Perth Honda Club's dyno day Renzo?

what mods? was he tuned? i can't remember

didn't stay all day either lel

too much penis showoff

[RenzokukenJ]

He was tuned, I THINK was frank wasn't it?

[curtis265]

He was tuned, I THINK was frank wasn't it?

nah he definitely wasn't that fast

[Jasemas]

nah he definitely wasn't that fast

Lmao his was not tuned
And it was not a frank either

He just had an intake and exhaust done
It helped being a manual

Put alot of the other K series to shame lol

[RenzokukenJ]

Didn't he have tune? I'm pretty sure he did

[amant02]

The cl9 is at the rear door of the dc5r until end of 3rd gear, after that the cl9 starts pulling away until beating the dc5r. This is due to the higher top end. Still acceleration is very close.

In terms of handling some mods will help, obviously wont be as good as the rac style chassis the type r has but i reckon it will do the job.
And a k24/k20 frank is exactly what i am planning to do.

i have a dc5r. I have had a few attempt to race me..... I chop em. Have lost once, but I got the launch wrong & he knew wut he was doing.


Lmao his was not tuned
And it was not a frank either

He just had an intake and exhaust done
It helped being a manual

Put alot of the other K series to shame lol


Hmm questionable wifout a tune. I have been told after tune I would be looking at them figures on my current I/H/E setup.

[curtis265]

Put alot of the other K series to shame lol

how so?

[Jasemas]

Well btm motorsports k eg had less power
Shauns dc5 had an ecu problem/ping
Darius s2k was down on power
That's all I can remember from the top of my head

[curtis265]

Well btm motorsports k eg had less power
Shauns dc5 had an ecu problem/ping
Darius s2k was down on power
That's all I can remember from the top of my head

I can't comment on BTM, however the K24 obivously has a displacement advantage
the DC5 is badly maintaned car overall
the s2k had 2 month old fuel in it... and not a K series

[Baby Face]

Not from the research i have done. A stock cl9 up against a dc5r stock ends with the cl9 winning. Thats stock, intake, exhaust, supercharger, etc..

I could upgrade the heads to a type r head, get rid of the lev components. In my eyes this car will probably cost more and use more time, but itll be madd by then end.

Are these cars stock? the CL9 has a nice pull dont get me wrong my gf got one.

but even she would rather a dc5r, the euro is boaty, unless you need 4 doors just get 2


plus u could always go frank on a DC5R aswell, or go frank k24/20a on a DC2. the chassis is the most important part you cant change that, so get the right one

[Jasemas]

Considering she wanted an fd lol
I think the cl9 was a better choice :P

[Stevil]

Hey Lemon if ya want 4 doors and handling then the fd1 + k20/24 frank is doable, with a full tank of juice and lightweight seat in my fd1 it weighs under 1190kgs, confirmed at the drags last week.

Handling would be on par if not better than your dc2 dc5 Ep3 euro options. Conversion cost is a smidge higher due to needing an fd2 subframe, i was lucky enough to get an fd2R subframe and steering rack cheaply. Anythings doable if ya have the time and cash.

[Drifter995]

Hey Lemon if ya want 4 doors and handling then the fd1 + k20/24 frank is doable, with a full tank of juice and lightweight seat in my fd1 it weighs under 1190kgs, confirmed at the drags last week.

Handling would be on par if not better than your dc2 dc5 Ep3 euro options. Conversion cost is a smidge higher due to needing an fd2 subframe, i was lucky enough to get an fd2R subframe and steering rack cheaply. Anythings doable if ya have the time and cash.
Euro/ audm fd/ fn from my understanding has torsion rear end, and is far worse than the dc5/ep/ek, etc.

[Jasemas]

Euro/ audm fd/ fn from my understanding has torsion rear end, and is far worse than the dc5/ep/ek, etc.

The euro's cu2/cl9 are the last of the famed Honda's double wishe boned suspension...
The fd (au)/fn2 big to differ

[Stevil]

Hey drifter Im only sharing the comments other honda racers have made after fanging my fd1 at the track, and after all the FD2R is the best fwd ever produced by Honda, Euro handing maybe good but its a massive weight penalty.

[Drifter995]

Hey drifter Im only sharing the comments other honda racers have made after fanging my fd1 at the track, and after all the FD2R is the best fwd ever produced by Honda, Euro handing maybe good but its a massive weight penalty.
From everyrhing i've seen, the euro/ audm model was surpassed in every way by the ep3r

[amant02]

Dude he has a turbo.

Therefore moral of story. Wanna go fast, just need turbo.

[Stevil]

Yeah i get what ya saying, tight chassis the ep3, thou a little top heavy for my liking. shape aint that aerodynamic either.

[amant02]

nothing a turbo cannot fix.

[Stevil]

Who s got a turbo ??

[amant02]

You?

Idunno its been a while.

[amant02]

Oh u kswap a FD

[Stevil]

Yeah got a turbo sittin in a box at home, been NA k20/24 for 6mths and loving it.

[RenzokukenJ]

How much power stevil?

[Stevil]

Not enough !

[Baby Face]

turbo sucks in more air and reduces consequent drag.... but improves down force cause more heavy....