B18C2 in EJ8 Questions (a lot of questions)

[nijalninja]

Hello, this is the first thing I shall be posting/asking as part of the Oz Honda Forum, and I hope that someone may be able to help me, and that I can fit in a little bit with the Honda community.

Ok, so I own a 1996 Honda Civic EJ8, which has a B18c2 from a 1996 Integre VTIR, and I am planning on working on it for a few years and using as a daily for as long as I own it. What I am trying to do, is get a little bit of competitiveness out of the engine without using forced induction, or changing any of the internal parts, because I have heard that a majority of Aftermarket parts wear more easily than OEM. So I am really just looking at bolt-ons and stuff. At the moment it has as (engine-wise) ITR Headers, A custom CAI, and a Custom 2.5' inlet to 2.5' outlet exhaust system (with a muffler, not a cannon).

Intake Manifold: (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=483)

I want as much power out of this engine as possible at the moment, but the only sure IM that I have found that will definitely fit on the B18c2 is this Skunk2 one. The rest of them I am not sure of. Is this particular IM any good? Could I get one even better? Price isnt a problem for me since I plan on doing this over possibly 4 or more years, but I wanted to get my head in the right place first. Also, in the when driving my car at 6000 rpm there is quite a change in sound I get more power. I know that this is a VTEC engine (please dont think I am that uninformed), but I have read that at 6000 rpm it is something in the Intake which makes this change. Is this true? and if so, would an aftermarket IM make any difference? Because, although I want more power I do like that little kick. This (http://passwordjdm.com/Skunk2-Ultra-Series-Race-Intake-Manifold-B-series-VTEC-Engines-Silver-35-Liters-P9576C1297.aspx) intake manifold looks really nice, and by the sounds of it, it is worth its price, but it does specifically say that it will fit the B18C2 engine. Same questions as before.

Throttle Body: (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=242_245_413&product_id=148)

I dont know much about Throttle Bodies, or what size is best, but I am looking at this one in 68mm which shouldnt be an oversize I think. Any suggestions, or better offers I should be aware of? Is 68mm good? This (http://passwordjdm.com/Skunk2-Black-Series-68mm-Billet-Pro-Series-Throttle-Body-DBHF-Series-P4711C1297.aspx) is another option for me.

Exhaust Manifold: (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=237_239_419&product_id=211)

I havent found many really good looking headers for the b18c2 engine, but these look pretty good, and I have kind of been gauging quality off of price. At the moment there is a set of ITR headers on the engine, which perform great as it is, but they are only 4 - 1, and where all 4 pipes join to one, they are all squished together really shortly and it doesnt look like the best flow to me, but if someone advises me to keep them for the right reasons I might consider. Does anyone have any experience with these Skunk2 Headers? Are they any good? Is there anything better? I also had a look at "these" (http://passwordjdm.com/Spoon-Sports-421-Exhaust-Manifold-DC2RDB8REK9-P8002C686.aspx) with the same questions. My other option in terms of exhaust manifolds is a custom one by these guys (http://www.turboshop.com.au/exhaust-products), but I dont know much about custom setups, or even what these guys are like, so if anyone could shed some light that would be great. Is it likely that a custom header would be better than, even a really good, aftermarket setup?

Also, has anyone ever installed one of these (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=209_323_324&product_id=675) oil coolers on one of these engines? If so, are there any particularly good places to mount it, and did you have to do any other mods to fit it, or get it working? It is apparently universal, so it should work for the B18c2, but firsthand experience would be greatly appreciated.

I have heard certain rumors about Skunk2 and their work, but havent seen any real proof of it yet, but yet again, any advice is greatly appreciated.

With all of the bolt-ons and stuff done (in the future) I might go through the fuel delivery system if it is worth it, but I dont know much about fuel delivery and all that, so if it is worth it please tell me, and what would be the best things to do? At the moment I am looking at upgrading the Injectors (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=225_227&product_id=653), Fuel rail (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=225_227&product_id=210), Regulator (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=225_227&product_id=1028), Fuel pump (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=225_227&product_id=1552), Surge tank (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=225_227&product_id=1798), and anything else that is neccessary. The lines are already upgraded.

Ignition wise I think I might have a go at these Spoon spark plug leads (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=225_230&product_id=196), and maybe some new Spoon plugs.

With all of this, I am also going to get the ECU tuned, and I am wondering whether it is worth spending money on a Hondata ECU? if so, which one?

At the moment the car pulls around 150hp at the wheels with its current setup, and I would be quite happy if all of this gave me another 10 or 15 hp.

Thank you very much for any and all help since I am very new around here.

[Squalled]

To answer the Intake manifold:

The B18C2 uses a 2 stage intake manifold.

VTEC actually engages around 4500 rpm. The secondary runners open around 6000 rpm allowing more air to enter the engine.

Was mainly used to improve fuel economy at lower rpms and power up high from what I understand.

Vvvtec made this write up a while ago but it would still apply. Very useful write up and should hopefully help: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?145123-Skunk2-Intake-Manifold-amp-Injen-CAI-combination-on-a-DC2-B18c2

[nijalninja]

Ahh thanks, I will have to look at that.

[Squalled]

All good man.

From what I understand the Skunk2 header isn't too bad.

[nijalninja]

All good man.

From what I understand the Skunk2 header isn't too bad.

Ah cool. Judging by their price and how they look, I am guessing they are quite good quality.

[Squalled]

I'd suggest looking around other forums for reviews/opinions on it too.

[nijalninja]

I'd suggest looking around other forums for reviews/opinions on it too.

Yeah I will thanks.

The OP has been updated.

[Howardm]

I have Skunk2 inlet, throttle body and headers/ exhaust on my B16A and am quite happy, quality workmanship but expensive with the crap exchange rate ATM.

[nijalninja]

I have Skunk2 inlet, throttle body and headers/ exhaust on my B16A and am quite happy, quality workmanship but expensive with the crap exchange rate ATM.

Awesome, thanks for the insight, and I am sorry to ask, but the headers you have: Are they Alpha Series, or Megapower?

[Howardm]

Awesome, thanks for the insight, and I am sorry to ask, but the headers you have: Are they Alpha Series, or Megapower?



Megapower headers, Alpha series Throttle body and Pro series inlet.

[nijalninja]

Awesome. Did it make any difference to the note of the engine? Any of those mods that is.

[nijalninja]

Updated OP.

[rc_]

Also, has anyone ever installed one of these (http://www.jdmyard.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=209_323_324&product_id=675) oil coolers on one of these engines? If so, are there any particularly good places to mount it, and did you have to do any other mods to fit it, or get it working? It is apparently universal, so it should work for the B18c2, but firsthand experience would be greatly appreciated.

With all of this, I am also going to get the ECU tuned, and I am wondering whether it is worth spending money on a Hondata ECU? if so, which one?



I've got a 19 row oil cooler with -10AN lines, it's a Mocal not mishimoto but same dimensions. It is mounted in front of the radiator passenger side where the power steering cooler was (P/S removed). This is in a dc2 with standard full size radiator, there is plenty of room with A/C removed. You may need to experiment in the ej8. Also make sure if you are buying a kit that the lines are long enough to reach, dummy fit and trace where you want to route the lines before you buy.

It makes a difference if you are tracking the car, otherwise I don't think on the street you will need it. If I don't cover the cooler in normal street driving the oil temp won't get above 80deg C and I am still using the stock water/oil heat exchanger where the oil filter normally mounts. On the track temps are usually between 110-120deg C measured at the oil pan for 5-10 laps depending on ambient temps.

[nijalninja]

I've got a 19 row oil cooler with -10AN lines, it's a Mocal not mishimoto but same dimensions. It is mounted in front of the radiator passenger side where the power steering cooler was (P/S removed). This is in a dc2 with standard full size radiator, there is plenty of room with A/C removed. You may need to experiment in the ej8. Also make sure if you are buying a kit that the lines are long enough to reach, dummy fit and trace where you want to route the lines before you buy.

It makes a difference if you are tracking the car, otherwise I don't think on the street you will need it. If I don't cover the cooler in normal street driving the oil temp won't get above 80deg C and I am still using the stock water/oil heat exchanger where the oil filter normally mounts. On the track temps are usually between 110-120deg C measured at the oil pan for 5-10 laps depending on ambient temps.
Thank you very much for the wisdom. At the moment I dont quite know where my plans for this car will end. I am definitely going to track it a bit in the future. The only real reason I was thinking of getting an oil cooler is because of the fact that I dont really know what I want to do with the car, so I am asking all of these questions to help with my future decisions.

Also, is the engine you have N/A, or forced induction, and what internal parts have you changed, if any?

[rc_]

Thank you very much for the wisdom. At the moment I dont quite know where my plans for this car will end. I am definitely going to track it a bit in the future. The only real reason I was thinking of getting an oil cooler is because of the fact that I dont really know what I want to do with the car, so I am asking all of these questions to help with my future decisions.

Also, is the engine you have N/A, or forced induction, and what internal parts have you changed, if any?

Mine is b18c2, pretty stock just oem rebuild with higher comp Pistons and b18c7 cams. Running about 11.1-11.5 comp (based off online calculators which seem to vary a bit, I didn't cc the chambers and Pistons).

An oil cooler is good insurance, make sure you get some gauges for pressure and temp so you can see what they're actually doing. Your oil pressure may drop slightly but as long as it's above minimum at idle it should be fine, at higher revs you should have well above minimum requirements. Some people shim the oil pump relief spring to increase pressure to compensate, I found I didn't need to.

Looking at that kit it comes with ~4ft hoses, I would think you will need longer than that depending on which way you route them. They need to reach from the back of the block all the way to in front of the radiator.

[Squalled]

Another point I'd like to add is, are you thinking of getting something like a Hondata to tune these mods once purchased?

Will give excellent increases all round and improve the overall power band greatly.

Food for thought you know.

[mocchi]

what a great read

love the honda community

[nijalninja]

Another point I'd like to add is, are you thinking of getting something like a Hondata to tune these mods once purchased?

Will give excellent increases all round and improve the overall power band greatly.

Food for thought you know.

Yeah I asked it in the OP I think, if not I am definitely planning on tuning and upgrading the ECU after I go through the fuel delivery.

[nijalninja]

Mine is b18c2, pretty stock just oem rebuild with higher comp Pistons and b18c7 cams. Running about 11.1-11.5 comp (based off online calculators which seem to vary a bit, I didn't cc the chambers and Pistons).

An oil cooler is good insurance, make sure you get some gauges for pressure and temp so you can see what they're actually doing. Your oil pressure may drop slightly but as long as it's above minimum at idle it should be fine, at higher revs you should have well above minimum requirements. Some people shim the oil pump relief spring to increase pressure to compensate, I found I didn't need to.

Looking at that kit it comes with ~4ft hoses, I would think you will need longer than that depending on which way you route them. They need to reach from the back of the block all the way to in front of the radiator.

Yep, awesome. I am probably just going to upgrade to a set of Mugen steel/alloy/whatever-metal head gaskets, which apparently help with compression. I dont plan on doing any internal mods, so you feedback applies directly to my scenario. So thank you very much.

[Squalled]

Sounds like a good plan man.

[nijalninja]

Op has been updated with some Fuel delivery stuff.

[Squalled]

http://honda-tech.com/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/what-fuel-pump-fuel-injectors-2874337/ - This should hopefully help a little.

Remember the B18C1 is the USDM version of the B18C2.

[rc_]

Hey mate, just re-read through your O.P.

Seems like you have a decent idea of a few areas to look into, I would think about what order and what benefit each of the things you are listing would give you.

My opinion:

Intake Manifold - both the skunk2 and Blox V3 are pretty much the same design single run like the stock type r manifold. The stock dual stage manifold is pretty decent for a stock/daily drive setup, it is designed to improve low/midrange torque to give more linear delivery, not so much just for fuel economy. If you bolt a single stage aftermarket manifold up to a stock engine you wont see any real gains until you get it tuned. You may feel more of a power surge when vtec engages, but you will lose the low/midrange that the dual stage manifold gives you. What the single stage manifolds are good for is top end power gains.

Headers - If you have the JDM 4-1 style these are pretty good. There are a handfull of kw to be gained in swapping them to aftermarket depending on which ones you get, but I would be expecting anything massive. There are plenty of dyno comparisons (look on Honda Tech) between all the aftermarket headers to help you choose. Another good thing about the stock JDM type r headers is ground clearance, most of the aftermarket ones will hang lower, if your car is low then inevitably you will scrape/crack your shiny new aftermarket headers on the first speed bump.

Fuel delivery - prob don't need to change anything unless you have a problem now (do you have any surging/misfiring that needs correcting?). You won't gain any power as such unless you are maxing out your current injector duty cycle (which I highly doubt). I would do whatever hardware mods you are planning coupled with a tunable ECU, if you find you are maxing out duty cycle then look at an upgrade. FYI the aftermarket fuel rails don't give you anything except engine bay bling and a lighter wallet.

Spoon leads/plugs - again only good for bling and bragging rights. $500 for ignition leads is pretty steep to me given you wont see any gain whatsoever from using them. Spark plugs I would just get some good NGK or Denso to suit. Stick with the stock heat range unless you find an issue, higher heat range can just foul up if they don't operate in the correct temperature range.

Not trying to dissuade you from going through with the mods, above is just what I would do and have done for a similar setup to you. Hopefully some of the above is helpful, good luck!

[nijalninja]

Hey mate, just re-read through your O.P.

Seems like you have a decent idea of a few areas to look into, I would think about what order and what benefit each of the things you are listing would give you.

My opinion:

Intake Manifold - both the skunk2 and Blox V3 are pretty much the same design single run like the stock type r manifold. The stock dual stage manifold is pretty decent for a stock/daily drive setup, it is designed to improve low/midrange torque to give more linear delivery, not so much just for fuel economy. If you bolt a single stage aftermarket manifold up to a stock engine you wont see any real gains until you get it tuned. You may feel more of a power surge when vtec engages, but you will lose the low/midrange that the dual stage manifold gives you. What the single stage manifolds are good for is top end power gains.

Headers - If you have the JDM 4-1 style these are pretty good. There are a handfull of kw to be gained in swapping them to aftermarket depending on which ones you get, but I would be expecting anything massive. There are plenty of dyno comparisons (look on Honda Tech) between all the aftermarket headers to help you choose. Another good thing about the stock JDM type r headers is ground clearance, most of the aftermarket ones will hang lower, if your car is low then inevitably you will scrape/crack your shiny new aftermarket headers on the first speed bump.

Fuel delivery - prob don't need to change anything unless you have a problem now (do you have any surging/misfiring that needs correcting?). You won't gain any power as such unless you are maxing out your current injector duty cycle (which I highly doubt). I would do whatever hardware mods you are planning coupled with a tunable ECU, if you find you are maxing out duty cycle then look at an upgrade. FYI the aftermarket fuel rails don't give you anything except engine bay bling and a lighter wallet.

Spoon leads/plugs - again only good for bling and bragging rights. $500 for ignition leads is pretty steep to me given you wont see any gain whatsoever from using them. Spark plugs I would just get some good NGK or Denso to suit. Stick with the stock heat range unless you find an issue, higher heat range can just foul up if they don't operate in the correct temperature range.

Not trying to dissuade you from going through with the mods, above is just what I would do and have done for a similar setup to you. Hopefully some of the above is helpful, good luck!

Dont worry about dissuading or anything like that: This is my first car, and I want to make sure I do everything right.

I am beginning to think that I might just do the Intake manifold, Throttle Body, and ECU, as well as the Oil Cooler. I am starting to feel that I should keep the car as "Honda" as possible, with a few things to just spice it up. In the end I might just see if I can get the Intake manifold ported if possible.

About the Headers: The car as it is, is literally just legal in terms of height, and the previous owner told me about the headers and why he chose them, but later I might see if I can get a custom Manifold made up to increase power, and stay tucked away.

You, my friend, have possibly just saved me a lot of money, hassle, and wasted mods. Thank you very much. There are really only a few more things I need to know, and I will be ready to start getting to it. You have answered so much, and I really do appreciate it. 10/10.

[nijalninja]

http://honda-tech.com/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/what-fuel-pump-fuel-injectors-2874337/ - This should hopefully help a little.

Remember the B18C1 is the USDM version of the B18C2.

Thanks.