2007 Accord Euro Rear End Slipping Out

[Jaymillsibday]

Ok, so recently I have been taking my accord euro to track days. The issue is, that the rear end is travel happy and decides to whip around trying to overtake the front wheels (best way to describe it). For example, taking a left turn in, the rear right wheel will travel outwards (many times nearly causing me to loose control, if its a wet day then cya later to my car).

I don't know if I am on the right track here, but would a honda civic type R 2007 do a better job in handling a corner with less tail whipping? Is the reason being the suspension? The small wheel base? Perhaps one bad tyre on the right (my mech told me that the right tyre was a bit low on the very inside of the tyre, but I highly doubt it is the tyres only considering the left end of the car whipped out exactly the same)? A combination? Or the body of the car itself?

Can someone explain to me how do I correct the wallowing handling of my accord euro to take bends/corners correctly, thankyou :D

[curtis265]

Need a bit of info:

1. What are you doing with your feet mid corner to cause this? Any sudden lift off?
2. What suspension mods do you have?
3. What wheels and tyres are you using?
3. Do you have different front and rear tyres?

[Jaymillsibday]

1. Yes I am lifting of, should I not? The racing/driving school I went to said not to punch the accelerator through corners, should I keep mid pressure on the pedal?
2. None.
3. Cheapest ones, $100 each
4. Yes, not from the same brand. In fact the rear right tyre has a little low tread. The one tyre (left side) has decent amount all the way through. I know this may cause issues with handling, but my real question is, is it possible to make this car have very good handling that is perfect for tracking or is it just a family sedan with no hope?

I am willing to pay $5000 to turn this into a little god handling pocket rocket that is fuel efficient. Perhaps its best to just buy a honda civic type r in terms of handling and speed, or wrx?

[Hondarally]

Slow down and learn to drive below the limit. Big rookie mistake is to take to the track in a GT6 / Forza style and spend half the day in the kitty litter (or worse yet, against a wall)

Throttle control / braking in corners is very critical in FWD's No sudden moves as this upsets the balance. Good for sideways action on gravel, but on a track, everything is about being smooooth (heard the saying "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast")

The suspension is a nice compromise between road comfort and reasonably handling. Many mods you do will enhance one, at the detriment of the other. The Euro is a reasonable handling car out of the box, and with decent shocks and tyres should handle OK. A good quality set of springs (or coilovers) will improve handling, but make sure you get it set up by someone who knows performance suspension. Also, don't forget bushes. They are designed to allow movement to improve comfort and reduce road noise. Increasing stiffness of the bushes will generally give better handling / feel, but noise and comfort will suffer.

Then there's geometry / wheel alignment. These will have a big impact on handling, and there is some adjustment available in standard suspension (though not a great deal).

Also, buy decent quality tyres. You don't have to spend $500 a corner on R spec tyres, but higher performance tyres will make a big difference. In general terms, stickier tyres will be softer, so will wear out faster.

[Jaymillsibday]

Hmmmmm, i guess really what I am trying to do is justifying spending $5-6k in mods to get this car track ready as opposed to just spending 15k on a stock subaru wrx or honda civic type r 07.

I did a quick search on this forum and it appears there are a few threads on handling. If i dropped 6k into an accord euro manual, half acceleration/top speed mods and the other half handling, and say my budy had a stock civ type r 07. We both are exactly the same skill level, both the same 0-100 times. Say i brought up the handling in the tyres, suspensions, sway bars and all that jaz to meet stock specs of his civic. Would the civic outrun the accord euro around bends and infact beat the car all together because of its geometry and handling of physics (like smaller wheel base) or will the honda accord keep up?

I know the accord is a sedan and its not reasonable to race sedans, but the way its built is an honest confusion between track/sports car and family sedan.

[bennjamin]

Take corners wider turn in hard and finish wide again
Never lift off , depending on corner jump off accell. straight
to brakes IN A STRAIGHT LINE then accell and turn to flatten out the car and hold it. Light under steer is better than whipping out in an uncontrolled mess

[Jaymillsibday]

Never lift off , depending on corner jump off accell. straight
to brakes IN A STRAIGHT LINE then accell and turn to flatten out the car and hold it. Light under steer is better than whipping out in an uncontrolled mess

What does that mean, "never lift off, depending on corner jump of accell." This is confusing can you please explain in greater detail?

[bennjamin]

As in never accelerate then suddenly jump off the throttle mid corner. This ( for a novice or coupled with a heavy FWD with an open diff ) will unsettle the car and shift weight from the back to the front and you will slide out

[curtis265]

1. Yes I am lifting of, should I not? The racing/driving school I went to said not to punch the accelerator through corners, should I keep mid pressure on the pedal?
2. None.
3. Cheapest ones, $100 each
4. Yes, not from the same brand. In fact the rear right tyre has a little low tread. The one tyre (left side) has decent amount all the way through. I know this may cause issues with handling, but my real question is, is it possible to make this car have very good handling that is perfect for tracking or is it just a family sedan with no hope?

I am willing to pay $5000 to turn this into a little god handling pocket rocket that is fuel efficient. Perhaps its best to just buy a honda civic type r in terms of handling and speed, or wrx?

We can only say so much online, i think you need to get some seat time with an instructor - srs.

Lifting off the throttle shifts all the weight to the front and unloads the rear end. You may as well yank the handbrake. This will happen regardless of whether or not you're driving a civic or an accord.

$5000 will get you a very good set of coilovers sway/strut bars, wheels and tyres.

[Jaymillsibday]

To writer above:
I understand the fundamentals of the vehicle and its weight transfer, not perfectly, but perhaps you havnt answered the crux of my latest quesion, i am directing it more to the vehicle now assuming the driver (anyone) has a good driving skill level.

So, buying a race designed vehicle like the civic type r 07 is better in order to achieve lower track times instead of buying an accord and dumping 5-6k worth of performance and handling parts?

I have a medium amount of money to spare and have no idea which way to go with it in terms of race potential.

For reference to this question: I have watched numerous amounts of videos online, on how the honda accord euro/tsx handles around the track of nurburgring. It seems heavy, wallowing and constricting much like my car - the drivers' have confidence in the car but the way its designed and the suspension is set up it seems it is lacking that higher degree of race adaquacy. I have also watched many videos on how the civic type r 07+ handles on the track and it is just a whole new level of handling and track adaquacy. As much as this is down to how the driver performs in the car, it is also up to how the car is built (cant be racing a truck like a golf gti u get me). Thus it got me thinking, where should I put my money u know. I can either drop money into the accord, or buy a civic type r and build from there - get moi?

[lilthug]

3. Cheapest ones, $100 each


theres one problem

[justin8]

You don't need to spend $5k to get it up to spec. Just put some better tires; if it's not your daily but you wanna go cheap, you can get NS2-R semi slicks for ~$160/corner (I had them on my RX-8 and it could never lose grip). Tires will make *THE BIGGEST* difference.

Then listen to everyone else, smooth on the throttle and brakes, no jerky movements, don't suddenly lift off the throttle in anything but a straight line or you unsettle the chassis mid corner.

As for suspension, if you want to get something much sportier, check out Fulcrum, it's where I got my last set of coilovers. They have the CL7 and CL9 full sets for ~$900-1100 here: http://performance.fulcrumsuspensions.com.au/ (You can get $30 boat shipping from Japan but have to wait 2-3 months, or pay $330 to get air shipping in 1-2 weeks when I last ordered. I just went with boat because $300 is 2 tires).

So, for $1500-1700 you can get brand new sports coil overs and semi slicks. You won't find better bang for your buck.

[bennjamin]

Mate semi slicks on the normal road are silly and dangerous to suggest. They wear like crazy and are unsafe in most normal driving conditions as they haven't even come up to operating temp. In the rain or snow they are a death trap.

[justin8]

They say semi slicks, I put 25,000 on my last set and they handled just fine in QLD down pours. the NS2-R are nankang, the Taiwanese tires aren't proper racing ones; most of the 'semi-slick' is marketing at that price point.

I also suggested 'if it's not your daily'

[rc_]

Here's my thoughts in order of highest priority to lowest...
1. Better tyres
2. Better tyres
3. Better tyres

Others have said it, has it sunk in yet?

Other comments: your accord is never going to be as quick as another car that was designed more for racing/sport, but you can optimise for racing so that it is better than it was.

Also keep in mind that the more you mod it to go faster on the racetrack usually the worse it will be to live with as a daily (eg semi slicks, stiffer suspension, aggressive wheel alignments, race type brake pads to name a few)

Only you can decide whether spending 5-6k on an accord to make it crapper in everyday driving is worth it. Consider that the civic type r you mentioned would undoubtably be better around the track in stock form than your accord and still be perfectly liveable as a a daily.

I'm not saying your accord is crap or that the civic would be the best track car either, those are just the examples you gave.

I agree with the notes on driving style talked about above too, fwd you must be careful with lift off oversteer. You'd get a lot more safety margin with gripper tyres though and have a heap more fun and cleaner pants.

[fairplay]

Why is this even a discussion. If you're after a purpose built race/track car - obviously spend the money on a Type R. Better yet a WRX. The Accord is a 4dr sedan designed for comfort.

[Daveho1]

Why is this even a discussion. If you're after a purpose built race/track car - obviously spend the money on a Type R. Better yet a WRX. The Accord is a 4dr sedan designed for comfort.
i know that's you Amant
Your silly answers and Subaru preference give you away!

[cbauto]

Lol wrx

[Daveho1]

Well it's got heaps less doors than the accord.. Oh wait

[cbauto]

OP has 5k
Wants better times. Who cares about fun, all about the bragging rights. FYI tank buster does WP in 1minnut flat

[Daveho1]

5k? Buy a built EG hatch

[cbauto]

Buy something like Dave's car

[Daveho1]

I Donno man, FairPlay AKA amant02 thinks it's a shit box