Broken crank bolt on a 99 Civic

[john1976]

So the head of my crank bolt came off today when driving home. Its just the head of the bolt, i'd say that 90% of the actual bolt is still in the crank shaft.
I've been looking for solutions online and the most recommended thing to do is to weld a bolt head onto the stuck shaft - but thats not going to happen because i don't have a welding machine and my car is stuck in my garage.
Will those easy out tools work ?
Thats the only thing that i can think of anyways, if the easy out tool breaks then its bye bye 99 honda civic and its off to apply for a car loan for me....

PS: I was reading somewhere that with the head broken off there shouldn't be too much torque on whats left inside the crank wheel - if this is the case then the bolt should come out easily enough ???

[ECU-MAN]

It should be finger tight and you should be able to remove it easily if you can grip it.

You can also use a fine punch with a nice point and gently tap the broken bolt anti clockwise and remove it.

If you are unlucky and lock tight was used or the bolt threads where stripped then more drastic measures will need to be used..

There are companies you can call were they send someone out to remove the broken bolt put. ( in SA call Captain Thread)

[Dxs]

remove the crank pully and try as ecu man said.

I would probably cut/grind a thin slot into the end of the bolt and undo with flat head screw driver.

[john1976]

remove the crank pully and try as ecu man said.

I would probably cut/grind a thin slot into the end of the bolt and undo with flat head screw driver.

Thats a fu_cking genius idea ! I'll have to get one of those small hand held dremmel things to cut the bolt with !
Thanks for the replys guys !

[john1976]

remove the crank pully and try as ecu man said.

I would probably cut/grind a thin slot into the end of the bolt and undo with flat head screw driver.

any idea how i can cut a slot for a screw driver into the bolt ? The bolt is set into the crank wheel so the cutting wheel should be small. The bolt is only 10mm wide.

[john1976]

It should be finger tight and you should be able to remove it easily if you can grip it.

You can also use a fine punch with a nice point and gently tap the broken bolt anti clockwise and remove it.

If you are unlucky and lock tight was used or the bolt threads where stripped then more drastic measures will need to be used..

There are companies you can call were they send someone out to remove the broken bolt put. ( in SA call Captain Thread)

Cheers, i'll give that a go , although the bolt is set in a bit into the crank wheel.

[Dxs]

remove the crank pulley (u refer to it as the 'wheel'). It will make things super easy from there.
If you have a grinder, you can prob cut a slot with a thin cutting disc.


but remove the pulley.

see if you can find a workshop manual from here to guide u in loosing all the belts to the pulley.
http://hondatech.info/downloads/Auto/Manuals/

[john1976]

remove the crank pulley (u refer to it as the 'wheel'). It will make things super easy from there.
If you have a grinder, you can prob cut a slot with a thin cutting disc.


but remove the pulley.

see if you can find a workshop manual from here to guide u in loosing all the belts to the pulley.
http://hondatech.info/downloads/Auto/Manuals/

The pulley came off pretty easily. It was literally hanging on by the belts only so i could get it off easily enough. But there's no way that i could fit a 5 inch grinder anywhere near the broken bolt. I would need a cutting blade that was literally 5mm wide. The crank bolt itself is around 10mm and the broken bolt is recessed into the crank shaft.
I'm thinking of drilling two small holes into the broken bolt and putting 2 nails in there and using a pliers to stwist it out ? Or maybe even just go ahead with an easy out tool ?

[Hondarally]

Try and get a left handed drill bit

[Dxs]

hacksaw blade for steel maybe?

vice grips as ecuman suggested?

[john1976]

So i sprayed the stem of the crank bolt that was stuck using WD40 oil before i went to bed last night. I got one of those "easy out" tool kits on the way home from work and when i started to make a pilot hole in the bolt stem using a small drill bit the stuck crank bolt actually started turning on me ! It came out with great ease. what a relief ! So i'll hopefully get a replacement bolt tomorrow and i'll be alright.
Another question - the Honda users manual gives the spec for the crank bolt as:
14 X 1.25 mm
20 N.m (2.0 kgf.m, 14 lbf.ft) + 90 degrees
So does this mean that i tighten the bolt up to 20 Nm then turn the nut another 90 degrees using a marker ?
Thanks !

[ECU-MAN]

20N.m does not sound tight enough, at that tension it will fall out. You need to be doing it up to about 180N.m

I would usually do them up with a good impact gun with a good air compressor

[Jasemas]

You'll need the crank pulley holder tool
otherwise the engine will keep on spinning and you wont be able to tighten it

[john1976]

20N.m does not sound tight enough, at that tension it will fall out. You need to be doing it up to about 180N.m

I would usually do them up with a good impact gun with a good air compressor

That's what I was thinking. Although if I torque the bolt to 20 nm then turn the bolt 90 degrees will this be the same thing as 180 N.m ? I guess I could always just use a torque wrench !

[ECU-MAN]

I would say not. 90deg it not mentioned in the manual and you cannot be certain you reached 180N.m or my have over tensioned the bold

proper way it to use the pulley lock tool and a torque wrench, failing that do it up with a good rattle gun. Always lightly oil the back of the washer on the nut.

[cbauto]

Good work. I would have suggested a flat head punch to punch the remaining bolt then use flat head screwdriver to turn it. But never mind. Job is done.

[cbauto]

Just out of curiosity. How did the bolt break?

[Hondarally]

Turn of nut method is far superior to just torque alone. It gives much more accurate preloaded in the bolt. Torque alone is extremely inaccurate but easy to implement. Whenever a design has problems with fatigue in bolts we usually modify the process before redesigning the bolted joint (hydra nuts, supernuts, etc)

If a manual tells you to tighten it to 20nm + quarter turn then going back to a torque value is a step backwards. Having said that I haven't seen that process on too many bolts on cars.

[john1976]

Turn of nut method is far superior to just torque alone. It gives much more accurate preloaded in the bolt. Torque alone is extremely inaccurate but easy to implement. Whenever a design has problems with fatigue in bolts we usually modify the process before redesigning the bolted joint (hydra nuts, supernuts, etc)

If a manual tells you to tighten it to 20nm + quarter turn then going back to a torque value is a step backwards. Having said that I haven't seen that process on too many bolts on cars.

Yeh - the manual says 20 N.m + 90 degrees, which goes against anything that anyone is telling me. The problem with the manual is that it's not actually for a D16Y4 engine. Its for D16Y5, 6,7 and 8. I called Honda and asked them for a manual for my specific engine but its out of print they tell me. So i'm probably going to torque to 200 N.m because that's the safe option.
I'll torque to 20 N.m first and mark the bolt to see how far away I am from 90 degrees. Will report back here. Hopefully I'll get it done tonight or tomorrow eve.

[john1976]

Just out of curiosity. How did the bolt break?

I'm guessing I over torqued it ? I was taking the timing belt covers off to try and find an oil leak (I thought it was the crank seal - it wasn't). And I put the balancer back on and under torqued it. So the balancer became loose and chewed up the placement pin/key and wore out the inside of the harmonic balancer. So I bought a new balancer and attached it using a huge breaker bar. Maybe I over torqued because I don't have a torque wrench ? I won't make the same mistake again.
The bolt actually fell off when I was driving home and I was lucky to be able to get the car towed into my garage for $130.

[john1976]

I would say not. 90deg it not mentioned in the manual and you cannot be certain you reached 180N.m or my have over tensioned the bold

proper way it to use the pulley lock tool and a torque wrench, failing that do it up with a good rattle gun. Always lightly oil the back of the washer on the nut.

Have u got a manual for a D16Y4 ? Cause I called Honda and they said its out of print. The manual I have is for D16Y5, 6, 7 and 8.

[john1976]

You'll need the crank pulley holder tool
otherwise the engine will keep on spinning and you wont be able to tighten it

Yep - got one of those on ebay. Its a bit of a pain in the ass trying to keep it in place while loosening/tightening the bolt though !

[cbauto]

Honda manuals are available for download. Just need to find them.

We're you using a 4 meter bar to tighten?

[john1976]

Honda manuals are available for download. Just need to find them.

We're you using a 4 meter bar to tighten?

I've downloaded a few manuals for 96-00 Honda civics and none of them mention the D16Y4. I think its because this engine is for Australia only ?
Yes I used a large bar to tighten.