B18C7 into GSi

[aldo10]

Just about to start an engine swap from a Type R DC2 into my GSi.

I was wondering if the drive shafts are interchangeable?

Mines a 1996 manual and it's a 1999 with ABS. My shafts were not long ago replaced so if I could use them it would be good.

On the conversion itself, the car was my fathers who passed away 6 months ago and asked me to keep it for a while to see if I liked it. It's a good little unit.

[bennjamin]

RIP to dear old dad , he left a cool little car.

Yes , the driveshafts will work with your chosen gearbox and brake setup.

[aldo10]

Thanks, yep dad loved his '90's two door Hondas.

I purchased the motor/gearbox/LSD ECU combo.

I might have a few questions down the track regarding the electrical side of things.

People keep mentioning the loom in past threads I have searched. Are they referring to the loom which runs into the vehicle cabin or just the loom attached to the motor?

I have all the wiring attached to the motor running up to the engine bay fuse box plus the B18C7 alternator.

[PJT]

Sounds like you've got it under control. Did you get an ECU with it? The cabin wiring should be able to be left alone. Except ECU of course..

[aldo10]

Hi, yep I did get the ECU with the motor. Thanks for that. I was a bit concerned about the electrical side of things. Hopefully it should all come together pretty nicely then.

Looking forward to getting it up and running.

[aldo10]

Hi guys, well after 4 months I have finally got the remainder of this weekend to make a start on this swap.

This is my first front wheel drive swap, only old Falcons and a mates HQ prior to this.

The Type R motor is complete on an engine hoist. The shop which removed it took it out from under the car. After enquiring to local mechanics they want around $1500 plus to remove my B18 and put the C7 in. Not really an option hence why I have decided to do it myself. That means via the top.

If I could bail you fellas up for questions. I have to separate the motor and box to get old out and new in?

Any chance I can unbolt air cond compressor and power steering pump from my B18 and leave them in the engine bay intact?

Cheers.

[dylspil]

cant speak from experience with integras but generally you should be able to pull the motor and box out from the top as one unit, it will require a bit of tilting and twisting while hanging from an engine crane but it's doable. alternatively jack up the car and drop the gearbox out the bottom, then drop it back down and lift the motor out the top with a bit more room for movement.

[PJT]

Don't need to separate. Just download a workshop book, will tell you how or there are a billion YouTube vids and threads on it.

[Daveho1]

Yep, personally I think it's easier to drop the body onto the engine and box myself

[PJT]

Easy if you have access to a lift ;)

[aldo10]

Yeah I wish I had access to one but anyway I've made small inroads. It looks real tight to pull the combo from the top especially seeing I would like to keep the aircond intact and power steering too. The power steering pump has a small leak so maybe a good time for a reco on the pump.

[aldo10]

Are there any markings on the gearbox to indicate a genuine Type R box?

[PJT]

2 things to look for. It should have a painted stamp saying LSD and maybe N3E. Most importantly, with the drive shafts out, you should be able to see through one side of the diff and out the other. Here's mine:http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160515/6381215d2c14c1d9fac341181c5e5d27.jpg

[aldo10]

Hmm ok, mines been pulled down and had new bearings etc through so it's quite clean, like pressure cleaned. I'll see what I can see once I pull the shafts out.

[PJT]

Yeah. It's common for the label to be washed off. On the non LSD models there's a bar in the middle of the diff so it's not clear to look through.

[PJT]

Also, you can def pull the combo from the top. Just take the rad out. If you want a shop book with step by step guide, pm me your email and I'll send you pdf. I did very similar swap and I have zero mechanical experience.

[aldo10]

So ... separating the bottom balljoint is the easiest option to remove the driveshafts? That way they stay in the front suspension etc?

[PJT]

Woah. Hold up. First learn from my mistakes.

Get some rope/wire something that you can wrap the drive shaft joints together so they don't come apart.

Then yes, separate bottom ball joint and unbolt suspension from control arm. Then you can take the drive shafts out. They need to be out to make room for getting engine in/out.

[cbauto]

Woah. Hold up. First learn from my mistakes.

Get some rope/wire something that you can wrap the drive shaft joints together so they don't come apart.

Then yes, separate bottom ball joint and unbolt suspension from control arm. Then you can take the drive shafts out. They need to be out to make room for getting engine in/out.
Are you trying to get Aldo to separate legs too?

[PJT]

Don't feed the troll Aldo.

[aldo10]

Fellas it's coming along slowly. Most seems to be straight forward except for the vacuum lines coming off the manifold.

The C7 has one large port apart from the brake booster line. The B2 has the brake booster line plus two small ports. One off the top of the throttle body and one at the far end of the manifold.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking that taking the Type R "vacuum canister"?? would have been a good idea.

[PJT]

Yeah you need that canister as far as I know...

[aldo10]

Ok cheers I'll see what I can source over the next week or two.

[dorikin]

The large port the c7 is for evap purge control solenoid


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[aldo10]

Hmm the more I read this workshop manual the more emission control stuff I see I don't have.

I have a red/yellow and a yellow/black plug off the inlet manifold on the C7 motor that doesn't exist on the B1.

I think I should have thought this out a bit better earlier in the piece lol.

[dorikin]

What loom is that plug on?
On the c7 loom?


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[aldo10]

Yep that plug is on the C7 motor. Judging from the manual it is very close to the IAC valve on the back of the manifold closest to the firewall.

[dorikin]

I would say it's for the Purge control solenoid valve which is mounted on the firewall behind the manifold


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[aldo10]

I've had a good look and cannot see anything on my GSI firewall. The B1 motor I'm meant to be removing doesn't have this plug.

I'm wondering if these are the issues a few mechanics I approached refused to do the swap for me saying it would be an electrical pain in the rump.

[aldo10]

Everything else seems to marry up pretty well except for this emission gear.

[dorikin]

I meant on a DC2R that's what the plug would be for.

I wonder if the Evap system was updated during the facelift on all dc2/dc4 or it was just a different thing on the Type-R

Either way it's not hard to add it in, or bypass it or re-use the stock b18b Evap system and plumb it in

Wiring a c7 in a gsi is really not that difficult


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Edit: just had a look and the Evap system with pcs valve only came on the Type-R

[aldo10]

Fellas if I can ask a question regarding gearboxes.

The B18B2 coming out has a gearbox with S80 on the barcode looking sticker. Are there different versions of this box called S80?

I once found a great piece of info discussing the different boxes they use in the Integra GSI, VTIR ad a Type R but now I can't find it.

[rc_]

Fellas if I can ask a question regarding gearboxes.

The B18B2 coming out has a gearbox with S80 on the barcode looking sticker. Are there different versions of this box called S80?

I once found a great piece of info discussing the different boxes they use in the Integra GSI, VTIR ad a Type R but now I can't find it.

Yes there are different versions and you can't just go by the s80 number alone to work out what ratios it has.

You have to combine the transmission ID (ie S80) with the year and model version vehicle it came from to know what you have.

Your Gsi s80 will be the long ratio version, get an s80/y80 from a vtir at least it a type r transmission if you can afford it.

Try this, it's U.S based but covers most of ours.

http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/temp/Bgears.htm

[PJT]

Didn't you get a gearbox with the Type R motor?


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[aldo10]

Hi there, yep the motor came with the gearbox attached. Just separated the C7 from its box tonight and it's straight through where the shafts come out. Just trying to get the B2 motor and box out as we speak.

[aldo10]

I asked the question about the S80 as its stamped on my B2 box. Just curious as to what it exactly was.

[PJT]

Good job! Can I just suggest that you figure the emissions stuff and vacuum lines before dropping new engine in there. So little space once it's in!


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[PJT]

Yeah. It's just a regular non-LSD long ratio box. Ie worthless to you now ;)


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[aldo10]

Oh I'm finding out about little room real quick!! The only emissions I'll be dealing with will be the fumes once I torch the whole show!! After this extravaganza I'll stick to dealing with motorcycle engines. Lol.

[rc_]

Hi there, yep the motor came with the gearbox attached. Just separated the C7 from its box tonight and it's straight through where the shafts come out. Just trying to get the B2 motor and box out as we speak.

Sounds like you're set then.

[cbauto]

Hi there, yep the motor came with the gearbox attached. Just separated the C7 from its box tonight and it's straight through where the shafts come out. Just trying to get the B2 motor and box out as we speak.

just hope it doesn't like chocolate.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Crunchie_bar.jpg

[PJT]

Nah dude. You'll be stoked once you finish. It's only ever a pain the arse when you've never done it before. I've had mine apart so many times it's normally no hassle now. But yesterday we replaced rear trailing arm bushings. First time doing it. Ballsed it first go ;)

[aldo10]

Well it's out and just sorting the C7 before I put it in. I need to torque down a new cam retainer bolt as the old one, which had a top thread to hold the spark cover had a dodgey thread. Adjust the valve clearances and throw in a new thermostat.

Yep it's a pain first time around till you sort the steps out.

[aldo10]

Fellas just a question regarding the two front under chassis L&R mounts for the Integra. Remembering I have a GSI, mine are due for replacement, the Type R ones list through Honda as different part numbers.

Which do I go for? GSI units? Are the Type R units sturdier? There is very little price difference and I'm curious if the Type R ones will use the GSI bolt holes.

[PJT]

I don't know for fact of the sturdiness. But the shape and position is identical. Just depends what compound you wanna run. I've got solid ones, which vibrates the crap out of everything ;)

[PJT]

Hard race also make a replacement item.

[aldo10]

Cheers PJT. Appreciated.

[aldo10]

Fellas, how important is it to brace the rear of the extractors to the back of the engine block similar to the metal bracket that holds the original manifold and engine pipe?

[cbauto]

Fellas, how important is it to brace the rear of the extractors to the back of the engine block similar to the metal bracket that holds the original manifold and engine pipe?

2/10.

[PJT]

Yo you vtaking yet??

[aldo10]

Well everything is in, I'm just doing fluids etc over the next couple of days when I get a chance.

I need to re-torque a cam bolt. One of the longer bolts which holds the silver spark plug cover had a slightly damaged thread under the plug cover nut so I ordered a replacement.

I'm thinking a re-torque of all of them seeing I've disturbed this one?

Does anyone have access to the torque settings for these bolts? There seems to be three types of bolts in total that would have different settings I imagine.

4 10mm outer bolts, 4 10mm end cap bolts which sit closest the cam gears and 20 12mm main bolts.

I'll have a search to see what I can find.

[PJT]

If it's just spark plug cover just do by hand not too tight. Don't wanna break the plastic. Vtak soon!

[EKVTIR-T]

9.8NM but be very careful,they break easily

and do in order

http://www.nrteam.org/up/imgstech/1/20110511/valvecover.jpg

[aldo10]

Sorry fellas, tension onto the cam? So in the above picture number three stud/bolt was not very smooth so I had to replace the whole stud which in turn holds down the cam.

Seeing I've disturbed one, as in replaced it with a new one from Honda, should I retension the entire cam?

[bennjamin]

9.8NM but be very careful,they break easily

and do in order

http://www.nrteam.org/up/imgstech/1/20110511/valvecover.jpg



plus



do it with a tiny ratchet

and do it when the motor is COLD

[Super-DA9]

Sorry fellas, tension onto the cam? So in the above picture number three stud/bolt was not very smooth so I had to replace the whole stud which in turn holds down the cam.

Seeing I've disturbed one, as in replaced it with a new one from Honda, should I retension the entire cam?

He's talking about one of the cam cap bolts guise. 4 of them have a stud on top.

The cam cap bolts with 12mm heads should be 20ft-lb lad. Here you go: http://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-crx-ef-civic-1988-1991-3/faq-b-series-torque-specs-953151/

I wouldn't bother re-tightening the others if you didn't undo them, just torque the new ones and you're good.

[aldo10]

Excellent, thanks for that. I'll get onto it and see if I can fire her up today.

[aldo10]

Well, I've hit the first snag. Engine turns over but will not fire. First thing I did was cracked the banjo on the fuel filter and line is pressurised. I then pulled the B18C7 ECU out and put the B18B ECU in and the car starts and idles sweet. Put the C7 ECU back in and it won't start.

In it's original vehicle the engine started and ran fine, I know because I drove it.

Could the ECU now be faulty or is there a connection missing from the B18B firewall loom to the B18C7 engine loom?

The C7 came with engine loom and ECU. It plugs up to original loom perfectly but I guess something is missing.

[cbauto]

Sounds like the immobiliser

[aldo10]

Cheers CB, I've read where you can remove a component or modify the ECU. Is this the type of fix I am chasing?

[dorikin]

Yes sir
There is a diy guide somewhere on this site, search for ECU-MAN


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[aldo10]

I've found this

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-48704.html

Seems easy enough. Just hope that is the issue.

[aldo10]

Hi fellas, I followed that thread and got the trusty soldering iron out. Car starts and runs fine. The engine check light stays on but I'm guessing that was always going to be an issue.

Booked in for an exhaust system next week. It's running Xforce headers and I was going to get a high flow cat and 2.1/4 system through to the back. If anyone has any input on alternatives I'm all ears. A tuner I spoke to earlier in the year said 2.1/2 but for some reason the exhaust shop thinks it's funny. Says he puts 2.1/2 on his V8's so wasted on a 1.8.

A HUGE thanks to those that offered advice and the helpful threads I searched and gained valuable information. Absolutely sensational information in this forum which I couldn't have completed this job without.

Thank you

[rc_]

Hi fellas, I followed that thread and got the trusty soldering iron out. Car starts and runs fine. The engine check light stays on but I'm guessing that was always going to be an issue.

Booked in for an exhaust system next week. It's running Xforce headers and I was going to get a high flow cat and 2.1/4 system through to the back. If anyone has any input on alternatives I'm all ears. A tuner I spoke to earlier in the year said 2.1/2 but for some reason the exhaust shop thinks it's funny. Says he puts 2.1/2 on his V8's so wasted on a 1.8.

A HUGE thanks to those that offered advice and the helpful threads I searched and gained valuable information. Absolutely sensational information in this forum which I couldn't have completed this job without.

Thank you

Good work getting it going.

Most exhaust shops won't know anything about Hondas.

The stock type r is 57mm after the headers (2.25") tapering to 54mm for the rear axle back section.

2.25" is fine for a stock engine, 2.5 will just be louder.

What is the size of the collector on the x force headers? If it's 2.25 there's not much point getting a 2.5" cat back except for sound. Just make sure you get a decent cat converter and muffler so it isn't strangled too much.

[aldo10]

Thanks, I'll check the header size.

I couldn't wait till next Wednesday so I got some fencing wire and wired the B18B system to the Xforce headers. It was also a good test because that means I don't have to trailer it to the shop.

Gets to 6K on the tachometer and cuts out intermittently.

I'm still running the B18B fuel pump. Could it be starving for fuel? The manual shows the B18C7 pump puts out significantly higher flows.

[rc_]

Thanks, I'll check the header size.

I couldn't wait till next Wednesday so I got some fencing wire and wired the B18B system to the Xforce headers. It was also a good test because that means I don't have to trailer it to the shop.

Gets to 6K on the tachometer and cuts out intermittently.

I'm still running the B18B fuel pump. Could it be starving for fuel? The manual shows the B18C7 pump puts out significantly higher flows.

You might want to check the code your ecu is putting out as to why it is not running correctly at high rpm, Vtec should engage somewhere around 6k (someone chime in here with the exact point).

Check your wiring diagrams for the gsi vs type r, have you added wiring for Vtec solenoid? There may be some other differences depending on what year your gsi is, get that and your ecu codes sorted before looking into the fuel pump.

[aldo10]

Thanks RC. Will do. I remember when pulling out the B18B that the firewall loom had wires that the engine loom didn't/had blanked so I was hoping for the best but not to be.

The saga continues ....

[aldo10]

Would someone have a simplified link/thread that I could read or view? I have been googling "wiring up Vtec solenoid" and it's confusing. A lot of the stuff I'm reading is for B16 Vtec engines in Civics etc. not sure if it's all the same.

I keep reading this OBD1 OBD2 business? Confusing.

[aldo10]

On the HAmotorsports site I found this;
"On your engine harness, locate the Vtec oil pressure switch wire (this wire comes from the OBD1 ECU pin D6). Simply tap this into the Vtec solenoid valve wire (the Vtec solenoid wire comes from OBD1 ECU pin A4). Do not cut the Vtec solenoid wire, simply connect the pressure switch wire to it.

That's it??

Sounds too easy

[rc_]

On the HAmotorsports site I found this;
"On your engine harness, locate the Vtec oil pressure switch wire (this wire comes from the OBD1 ECU pin D6). Simply tap this into the Vtec solenoid valve wire (the Vtec solenoid wire comes from OBD1 ECU pin A4). Do not cut the Vtec solenoid wire, simply connect the pressure switch wire to it.

That's it??

Sounds too easy

No, this will not necessarily be it.

First, what year is your chassis? You need to determine which obd version it is. Then you will know what is included in the cabin wiring harness.

If your engine is an AUDM version and you are using the original engine harness then you have an obd2a harness and if you have the original ecu it will also be obd2a.

If they are both the same obd version then all you have to do is check compare an obd2a ecu pin out to what is in your cabin harness and add any that you don't have. A good idea would be to use a multimeter to check the wiring continuity from the sensor plug back to the ecu plug.

Here is an example of what may need to be added for Vtec in a non Vtec chassis

http://www.d-series.org/forums/n00b-forum/115368-vtec-wiring-obd2a-non-vtec-wiring.html#/topics/115368?_k=qjgisg

If you're lucky the wiring you need might already be there and you could have another problem. Some models may have included redundant wiring to commonise harnesses between models. Someone who has actually done a swap like this might need to chime in.

I'd be checking the ecu codes first anyway, they will tell you what is missing.

[aldo10]

Thanks RC. My chassis is 1996, Type R engine/box/engine loom/ECU are out of a 1999.

I seem to have found the VTEC solenoid wire on the passenger shock tower. The cabin harness side of the plug is blank. I will trace back the other wires to see what I can find this evening.

[rc_]

Thanks RC. My chassis is 1996, Type R engine/box/engine loom/ECU are out of a 1999.

I seem to have found the VTEC solenoid wire on the passenger shock tower. The cabin harness side of the plug is blank. I will trace back the other wires to see what I can find this evening.

If the chassis is 96 it should be obd2a, but I think some early 96 may still have been obd1 so that is worth checking.

Pretty sure you will just need Vtec solenoid, Vtec pressure and knock sensor wired in.

[aldo10]

Cheers RC. It's a July 96 build. As you said, the other wires run into cab loom. Just need a few hours of spare time which is always the issue.

[aldo10]

I'm curious if some of the links I find are applicable to my vehicle. This link has one of the only pics which has a similar ECU to mine with reference to layout.

Interestingly 8(Vtec solenoid) 15(Vtec pressure switch) and 6(knock sensor) are not wired on my chassis harness. The are all blank at the plug.

http://www.hamotorsports.com/obd2a-wiring-diagram.html

Does anyone here agree with the plug layout?

[dorikin]

B18C7 is OBD2a so just search for OBD2a ECU pinout (the one in the link is correct)

There aren't any wires in you chassis harness because it's a GSI chassis, just extend the wires from your engine harness to the ECU. Pretty straight forward, but you will need ECU connector pins for a clean job.

[aldo10]

Ok thanks. The company in the link above sells pins. Are there OZ based sellers? I've tried eBay with no luck. $1.30 pins with excessive postage from the States on the bay.

[dorikin]

Just go to the wreckers and cut one off


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[aldo10]

My power steering hose leaked over my new belts. Bit of a setback I didn't need. It leaked at the joiner which holds the restrictor. Getting it repaired and back into the two clips and rubber holder/saddle clamp was a right pain. All down and now back into this ECU and wiring. Can't see an end to this lol

[PJT]

Hahahh. Sorry but reminded me of my build. My bro forgot to reattach the vtec solenoid before starting the engine. Gave the entire engine bay and the garage wall a nice lube job :P
Edit:
+1 for extending for ecu. Or buy another loom :(

[Vvvtec]

november 2016

c7 swap

what a time to be alive

nice thread tho man was entertaining haha

[aldo10]

Lol yeah I'm a couple of decades behind.

[aldo10]

Well it's finally finished! I think lol. I wired the VTEC solenoid up and tentatively took it for a run and it certainly works! It's been a while lol. Anyway thanks to everyone who offered assistance, it certainly kept the project rolling. With kids at school and full time work etc it's certainly steady as she goes, nothing happens quickly as spare time is a luxury.

Anyway cheers I'll try and get some pics up after I wash 7 months worth of dust off the bodywork.

[aldo10]

Ok I've managed to put around 200ks on it now and it's all running sweet, no funny noises, no smoking, air cond, steer etc all great except it throw the engine light up every time it hits 2500rpm. Stopping the engine turns it off and restarting it the light is out. Hit 2500 rpm and it comes back on.

Any ideas? Any preferred mechanics on Brisbanes Northside?

[Super-DA9]

Ok I've managed to put around 200ks on it now and it's all running sweet, no funny noises, no smoking, air cond, steer etc all great except it throw the engine light up every time it hits 2500rpm. Stopping the engine turns it off and restarting it the light is out. Hit 2500 rpm and it comes back on.

Any ideas? Any preferred mechanics on Brisbanes Northside?

Pull the code from the ECU and you'll know which sensor is throwing the code. The old paperclip trick usually works if you don't have a scanner or an aftermarket ECU. If you have an S300 just plug your laptop in.

[cbauto]

With kids at school and full time work etc it's certainly steady as she goes, nothing happens quickly as spare time is a luxury.

Anyway cheers I'll try and get some pics up after I wash 7 months worth of dust off the bodywork.

I know this feel.

[Vvvtec]

Op should resort to using turbo

Helps cbauto

[aldo10]

Just a oil consumption issue I've noticed. I'm using a lot of oil, probably added around 500ml to 800kms so far. Seeing it's the first run since the engine has sat for 10 months I thought I'd just use GTX2 then dump it at 1000kms and refill with something better.

The exhaust is leaving residue on the rear bumper. Black soot. Doesn't feel oily, more powder like. Plugs burn a nice grey on the electrode. Fuel economy is 8L/100 around the city. Starts with no smoke and doesn't blow any on just revving on the drive on a warm motor. Not sure when it's up and revving hard at speed.

Engine is very smooth and delivers nice power.

The catch is I have an engine light coming on at 3000rpm and I haven't connected up a electrical plug at the rear of the engine which I have been told is some type of emission control as my GSI didn't have anything for it. Could this be the source of my oil usage.

Compression test upon purchase of engine recorded 255psi across all cylinders.

[aldo10]

To anyone that might ask if I've had the engine tuned, I've called two brisbane shops, I've had two recommendations on tuning these, one totalled $2950 and the other was $1600. So at this stage I just want to sort out this engine light and oil consumption.

[rc_]

Just a oil consumption issue I've noticed. I'm using a lot of oil, probably added around 500ml to 800kms so far. Seeing it's the first run since the engine has sat for 10 months I thought I'd just use GTX2 then dump it at 1000kms and refill with something better.

The exhaust is leaving residue on the rear bumper. Black soot. Doesn't feel oily, more powder like. Plugs burn a nice grey on the electrode. Fuel economy is 8L/100 around the city. Starts with no smoke and doesn't blow any on just revving on the drive on a warm motor. Not sure when it's up and revving hard at speed.

Engine is very smooth and delivers nice power.

The catch is I have an engine light coming on at 3000rpm and I haven't connected up a electrical plug at the rear of the engine which I have been told is some type of emission control as my GSI didn't have anything for it. Could this be the source of my oil usage.

Compression test upon purchase of engine recorded 255psi across all cylinders.

Did you witness the compression test?

The black residue is from running rich, it is excess fuel not oil. Get rid of the CEL first then start troubleshooting if it is still an issue.

Also get someone to follow you when your car is warmed up at WOT. When I was burning a lot of oil I could only see smoke from the exhaust at high rpm gear shifts.

[aldo10]

Cheers RC, no I didn't witness the comp test. I am organising another one this week just curious.

I have managed to track down a purge solenoid so I'll wait and see if it stops the CEL.

Out of curiosity was you fix for oil consumption a rebuild?

Cheers Al

[rc_]

Yeah, mine was a rebuild at about 280k.

The rings were pretty worn and at least one chamber had leaky valve stem seals. It still drove pretty well prior to the build.

Now the oil consumption is virtually nil.

[aldo10]

Interesting. Mine supposedly had a build 15K prior to purchase. Pulling covers off etc gaskets etc can be seen to have been replaced and sealant etc looks newish. I would believe regardless of the build status that it copped a hard life prior to me buying it. I will do more investigating. Apart from top end power the midrange appears much nicer over the B18B.

If it was due for work I'll have to find a Brissy repaired I'd be keen with.

[aldo10]

Folks just a question regarding the knock sensor. My wire leading from the KS on the engine is white/red. My existing cabin loom has white/red too. So I am assuming it's all wired up.

When I go to my HA Motorsports diagram for wiring reference, which is what I used for the VTEC solenoid, it says the KS should wire into the ECU at D6. My D6 is empty. I'm confused.

Is it wired correctly or perhaps not?

[rc_]

Only the vtec engines had the knock sensor, so you don't have it in your gsi cabin loom. Obd2a Pinout says it should be red/blue

You will be causing a dtc by not having it wired up.

Run a new wire to d6.

[aldo10]

Thanks RC. I'll hook it up. I hope I've got the right sensor? I'm guessing from information I've found on the net that the knock sensors is located to the left of the oil filter when looking at the back of the engine. I would have thought a KS would be in the head but it's all I could find when searching the net.

[rc_]

Thanks RC. I'll hook it up. I hope I've got the right sensor? I'm guessing from information I've found on the net that the knock sensors is located to the left of the oil filter when looking at the back of the engine. I would have thought a KS would be in the head but it's all I could find when searching the net.

It's in the block right up the top. Be careful when trying to plug in the connector, when the sensors are old the plastic gets brittle and they are very easy to snap off.

Then they are an absolute bitch to get to with the intake manifold on as well so replacing it sucks. Getting good access with a spanner is not going to be easy, it may be slightly easier on a c7 vs a c2 manifold so you might be lucky.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161211/93dc20a6b0a859e292578bf267cf3e55.jpg

[aldo10]

Fantastic. Much appreciated.

[aldo10]

Which I have now found red/blue on the bottom most passenger suspension tower plug. Present on engine loom blank on cabin loom. Good stuff.

[aldo10]

Wired up and no more engine light. Stoked. Thanks RC.

[aldo10]

Well I have performed a cold engine compression test and numbered as cylinder 1 from drivers side I got 210-240-240-240. A nip of oil down cyl one saw my numbers bump up a smidge. I don't know what the allowable variation is but 30psi sounds significant.

[dougie_504]

Ideally you want them within about 10% so that's probably a bit too much of a drop, but the compression figures themselves are very healthy so I wouldn't be too upset.

Is the car blowing smoke under load? Get it looked at and find out if it's a valve or ring issue.

[aldo10]

I'm just trying to locate some extra length feeler gauges to double check the valve clearances with regards to the compression variance before I look further. This week I'll try an oil change just in the hope of something changing. I'll see if I can chase a leak down tester.

Yeah Dougie prior to me wiring in the knock sensor it was blowing smoke under load. I haven't tried seeing what it's like since the sensor has been wired in.

[dougie_504]

What colour smoke?

[aldo10]

Combo of blue and black.

I have just set all valve clearances and found all of them to be pretty generous. Most of the exhaust had pretty big gaps.

Rest to •155mm inlet and •178mm exhaust. Specs said •17 +\- •02 and •19 +/- •02

It was a little rattley.

I've yet to try it for smoke with the knock sensor wired up. I've also made an oil change to full synthetic. I'll see how it goes over the next few days.

[aldo10]

Well I've come to the conclusion this thing is up for a rebuild. Damn it lol. Out it will come again. I can't stomach getting around in a smokey car.

Just deciding on a home build or off to the shop.

I've done a number of motorcycle engine rebuilds and 1 car engine rebuild. Not really sure I'm in the mood for a rebuild that could take months due to time.

[aldo10]

Folks I've finally finally pulled this engine out for a rebuild. The machinist has informed me the current pistons are not up to spec. Well worn and a reborn to 1st oversize is on the cards.

I've called Honda for genuine pistons/rings. Price is $850

Looking at eBay stuff from the States. These two kits in particular?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NPR-81-5MM-HIGH-COMPRESSION-PISTONS-RING-ACURA-INTEGRA-TYPE-R-CIVIC-SI-B16-B18/291687976172?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D1047bf2cbfe94c27804 f24437a9cbdef%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D111417188700

Or

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YCP-B16-B18-81-5mm-020-50-JDM-High-Comp-Pistons-Rings-Acura-Honda-CivicType-R/191791982154?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms

Anyone had any experience? There are piston kits all the way through the price range which well exceed the Honda genuine. You get what you pay for?

Thanks

[Super-DA9]

Folks I've finally finally pulled this engine out for a rebuild. The machinist has informed me the current pistons are not up to spec. Well worn and a reborn to 1st oversize is on the cards.

I've called Honda for genuine pistons/rings. Price is $850

Looking at eBay stuff from the States. These two kits in particular?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NPR-81-5MM-HIGH-COMPRESSION-PISTONS-RING-ACURA-INTEGRA-TYPE-R-CIVIC-SI-B16-B18/291687976172?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D1047bf2cbfe94c27804 f24437a9cbdef%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D111417188700

Or

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YCP-B16-B18-81-5mm-020-50-JDM-High-Comp-Pistons-Rings-Acura-Honda-CivicType-R/191791982154?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms

Anyone had any experience? There are piston kits all the way through the price range which well exceed the Honda genuine. You get what you pay for?

Thanks

I remember that RS machines pistons used to be popular for B series rebuilds. Not sure what they cost but it might be worth having a look at.

Don't really know about NPR, never heard of them.

[YeahByuddy]

CP is good

[rc_]

I've used those NPR ones in the first link. There are reviews on Honda tech etc and many reports of successful builds.

Mines in a b18c2, has done a bunch of track days without any issues. It never burns oil like it used to pre-build and feels like it picked up a few kw.

The castings seemed pretty good, but I have no idea if the teflon coating will last. It looks different to the oem coating on c7 pistons.

One thing to check is if they are USDM versions (I think p73AO?) because they have lower compression than the jdm. I think the Audm is the same as us anyway.

Just keep in mind they most likely won't be as durable as an OEM or forged pistons. So far mine have been good for a few years in any case.

[beeza]

Hi aldo,how many km on the b18c7?

cool read btw :)

[aldo10]

Thanks for the responses folks much appreciated.

Beeza had tallied up 215000 kms. Previous owner had given it a bit of a hard life I suspect. Interesting that the machinist has found that the seller to me wasn't telling the truth on a rebuild. All internals are originals. He tells me the bottom end has never been apart.

I thought it went pretty well to be honest and the fuel economy was ok too. He says they are a pretty robust engine.

Anyway I just want a tight motor that I can put some distance work on without having to cart a 44 gallon drum of oil with me.

My final oil consumption test revealed 6 litres of 10/30 synthetic was chewed up in 4200kms.

[beeza]

Yeah,that's heaps.

Thank you mate u got me to look into it.

Looks like about 1 litre of 10/40 nulon full synthetic in 3000k's.157,000k's.Same engine. Was compression tested 220/240/240/240 but added cerma which restores compression,so need to test again and monitor oil consumption. I've only had the engine for the said 3000km.

I know these engines burn a bit of oil,seems mine is burning a bit more due to lower compression in the 1 cylinder like yours but not as bad...,yet ;)

Thanks for sharing this mate.

[YeahByuddy]

They usually blow up at 160'000kms

[aldo10]

Compression in mine was still all above 200. Oil control rings were gone.

[beeza]

Piston rings?

So these pistons will bump up the compression by the looks of it. It says 11.8 - 12.6 depending on head/block combo.Stock is 11.1

Must be cause they are oversized?

[rc_]

Piston rings?

So these pistons will bump up the compression by the looks of it. It says 11.8 - 12.6 depending on head/block combo.Stock is 11.1

Must be cause they are oversized?

Oversized bore will lower the compression slightly but not much. Don't go by what the eBay ad says it is too general, use some of the online calculators for b series. The calculators vary a bit so it will only be a rough idea.

[beeza]

Ah true.So they are a stock replacement then,but .5mm over sized? A compression is tester only $20 off ebay,just bought one.

[aldo10]

At this stage I'm unsure of the oversize spec. I'll know by next week. He's just left it up to me which piston brand I would like to go with.

The vehicle is a long term keeper so decisions.

[rc_]

Ah true.So they are a stock replacement then,but .5mm over sized? A compression is tester only $20 off ebay,just bought one.

Yes, stock P73-AO dome shape.

Check your stock pistons, the part number should be on the top. If they are p73-AO they are the same dome volume. Otherwise P73-OO (JDM) are higher compression, I think 10.6:1 vs 11.1:1. I would think the audm are the same as usdm with the lower compression, But with an unknown motor beat to confirm the part number on the piston or cc them to know for sure.

If I were to do it again I'd probably get some oem pistons from the US or amayama, they are much cheaper than here.

Example

http://www.icbmotorsport.com/intyrpikitb1.html

[beeza]

Nice one rc,bookmarked! Thanks mate.

So to swap over pistons only,car goes up on hoist,remove sump etc and pistons are removed from the underneath yeah? 5-6 hours labour + pistons.

600 + 400 = $1000? Does this sound right. Need to change anything else while it's open?

I'm just planning for future. .

[Super-DA9]

Nice one rc,bookmarked! Thanks mate.

So to swap over pistons only,car goes up on hoist,remove sump etc and pistons are removed from the underneath yeah? 5-6 hours labour + pistons.

600 + 400 = $1000? Does this sound right. Need to change anything else while it's open?

I'm just planning for future. .

The engine is generally removed from the vehicle and completely pulled apart. The block needs to be bare to be bored and honed..

There's heaps of info around the web on rebuilding engines. I would advise doing some reading..

[beeza]

Would advise not to advise lol

Have read heaps but I have questions,do you mind if I ask?

No bore and hone,just replace pistons only.Have seen it done.

My question is if I replaced the pistons now would that avoid a bore and hone or you should do them both really anyways.

[Super-DA9]

Would advise not to advise lol

Have read heaps but I have questions,do you mind if I ask?

No bore and hone,just replace pistons only.Have seen it done.

My question is if I replaced the pistons now would that avoid a bore and hone or you should do them both really anyways.

Lol how will the new piston rings break-in if the cylinders aren't honed? I'm intrigued.

[YeahByuddy]

Just give em a quick rub with 180 grit, she'll be right

[beeza]

LOL there's ALWAYS one isn't there.

Now,instead of Google searching it,I'm gonna ask another question super-man.Just to give you a good ol' laugh :)

Hone-ing lol doesn't mean you need over sized pistons? But how do you really know if it requires a re-bore?

[Super-DA9]

LOL there's ALWAYS one isn't there.

Now,instead of Google searching it,I'm gonna ask another question super-man.Just to give you a good ol' laugh :)

Hone-ing lol doesn't mean you need over sized pistons? But how do you really know if it requires a re-bore?

Dafuq are you on about?

I'm saying that new piston rings need a honed cylinder wall to break-in.

You are telling me that it's possible to simply fit a new set of pistons and rings without any machine work.. Can you also explain to me why you would do this, knowing that your piston rings won't break-in properly?


Just give em a quick rub with 180 grit, she'll be right

I'm gonna do this next time I do a rebuild. Good info in hear.

[beeza]

Cheers gotcha.How do you know if you need a re-bore though? Inspection and measurement?

[Super-DA9]

Cheers gotcha.How do you know if you need a re-bore though? Inspection and measurement?

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar29948_18.gif

http://bfy.tw/C0j8

first result

[beeza]

Nice link :) hehe

Yeah Have to inspect and measure.

[rc_]

There's no point in replacing pistons only. If they are worn out of spec or failed then you will need a bore and hone anyway at the least. You also will need to ensure correct piston to bore clearance then as super-da9 says the honing is important for bedding in the rings. While it's out you would at the minimum replace the bearings as well, clearances have to be checked at the same time the crank may need polishing or linishing of the journals.

There's many things to check when the block is apart, it really needs full inspection before reassembling anyway. The cost will always be more than you think, if you do all the removal, tear down and reassembly yourself I'd guess prices around the 3k mark once you factor in all the consumables/gaskets/seals etc that would be needed. That is for a cheap build too without any fancy brand name parts bumping up the price.

[Super-DA9]

There's no point in replacing pistons only. If they are worn out of spec or failed then you will need a bore and hone anyway at the least. You also will need to ensure correct piston to bore clearance then as super-da9 says the honing is important for bedding in the rings. While it's out you would at the minimum replace the bearings as well, clearances have to be checked at the same time the crank may need polishing or linishing of the journals.

There's many things to check when the block is apart, it really needs full inspection before reassembling anyway. The cost will always be more than you think, if you do all the removal, tear down and reassembly yourself I'd guess prices around the 3k mark once you factor in all the consumables/gaskets/seals etc that would be needed. That is for a cheap build too without any fancy brand name parts bumping up the price.

:thumbsup:

With old engines like these it's almost not even worth it if you don't do most of the tear down and assembly yourself.

[beeza]

Only if cylinder walls are damaged.

This video has a description of parts changed and why.Also swaps em' out from UNDER the car.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KmdpRxWq7gA

[beeza]

Taken from the comments:

"boris lizz

hello nice video.i have one question ,can i just fit in my new piston rings like u with honing or boring the cylinder wall? my cylinder walls look good.most people say, it is good to hone if not the piston rings will not seat well and engine will burn oil.hope to hear from you thanks."


"Replace piston ring in the cylinder liner does not need to wear down. If the cylinder liners are worn. Need Cylinder Boring. And replace the oversized piston rings. Please check the roundness of cylinder liners. And boring lines.*This video shoot. Engine overheated cylinder head gasket damaged Replace cylinder head gasket set and piston ring group. And cylinder liners is not damaged. Replace the piston ring STD. To improve the situation on the engine oil."

[Super-DA9]

Beeza, that is not the way to do it matey.

It's very obscure and far from ideal. I would not trust the comments in a strange youtube video to tell you how to properly carry out something as important as an engine overhaul...

This is really information that you will find in books and proper articles about rebuilding, such as the SA designs book on rebuilding B series or some of the articles on websites like evans tuning which is why I advise you do some extensive research yourself, since the information is out there for you. That's how I got all my info when I rebuilt my B18 so there's no reason why you can't.

I was really trying to avoid spoon-feeding but none the less, here's the issue with this method you're suggesting. As a matter of fact, piston rings will always require break-in. They will always have high spots on them that need to be worn down during this process, and that's exactly what honing is for. To give the piston rings an abrasive surface to wear against. Getting the break-in process right is a huge deciding factor in whether your rebuilt engine is going to perform well or chug oil.

The tl;dr is:

New piston rings = honed cylinder walls. Always. It's never recommended to try and take dodgy shortcuts just to save having to pull the block from the car.

Now can we please stop clogging up this poor guys thread lol

[beeza]

Alright,cheers for that.

[Hondarally]

And pulling pistons out through the bottom? Dunno how Honda design their blocks but I haven't come across too many blocks that let you pull the pistons out through the bottom. Usually the castings are designed to give you strength around crank journals, so pistons won't fit through the opening.
You can fit new pistons and rings without a hone job, but that's akin to a paint job without even bothering to wash the car first.
Once stripped, measure the bores (diameter, taper, ovality) and work out what remedial works are needed. If you're really lucky, you can use original bores and pistons, just new rings. This is a quick, cheap and rough rebuild that will get you going again. More likely you'll need a slight oversize with the first oversize set of pistons and new rings.
Don't forget to replace bearings at the same time. The increased BMEP will kill your old bearings in no time.
Do it once, do it right and don't be afraid to spend a few $$ on quality parts.

[beeza]

Thanks Hondarally,cheers mate.

[aldo10]

Fellas I'm at the stage of looking at big end an main bearings. Honda mentions something about colour coding.

Does anyone know what this is about? Is that sizing or placement on the crank?

[Super-DA9]

Its sizing..

[rc_]

Fellas I'm at the stage of looking at big end an main bearings. Honda mentions something about colour coding.

Does anyone know what this is about? Is that sizing or placement on the crank?

Unless you are buying oem bearings you won't get the same tolerances of bearings.

Your builder should measure the clearances for you but essentially aftermarket ie ACL only come in standard or extra clearance for race application (can't remember what they call this exactly). Honda bearings come in different grades to keep tighter tolerance on clearances. It is marked on the case and crank, you can only see this after disassembly.

Go buy one of these, it will answer pretty much all your questions and guide you through the build process.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/360604443521

[Super-DA9]

That is a very helpful book when you are new to the whole rebuilding process

[aldo10]

Appreciate that. Thanks I'll have a read.

[aldo10]

Hi fellas I tried ICB Motorsport and seems they don't do orders to Australia.

[aldo10]

Hey guys I’m stuck with locating the fuel pump fuse. I’m ready for start up on this Integra but need to momentarily stop the pump. Any help much appreciated.

[PJT]

Hmmm. Just unplug it :P but I think it’s under the dash labeled pgmfi.

[aldo10]

Cheers. I’ll check it out. I thought it was under the bonnet. I can’t access the boot area. Cars been sitting for 5 months getting the engine/box rebuilt. Just trying to wind the motor over for oil pressure before it fires up.

I’m excited lol.

[PJT]

Cheers. I’ll check it out. I thought it was under the bonnet. I can’t access the boot area. Cars been sitting for 5 months getting the engine/box rebuilt. Just trying to wind the motor over for oil pressure before it fires up.

I’m excited lol.

Don’t need the boot. Just take off the useless rear seat. Pump cover is right under it ;)

[aldo10]

All done cheers [emoji6]

Well motor fired up nicely. I’ll have to wait a few days before I can take it for a run.

This whole process has dragged on a little lol. Shoulda just saved a little and bought the new turbo Type R.

[PJT]

All done cheers [emoji6]

Well motor fired up nicely. I’ll have to wait a few days before I can take it for a run.

This whole process has dragged on a little lol. Shoulda just saved a little and bought the new turbo Type R.

But then you wouldn’t have all this knowledge! :P

[aldo10]

Too true lol.

Drives great! Good to take it for a run and not have a black rear bumper.

Everything feels good. Clutch, gearbox etc. no check lights on the dash etc.

There is a lingering issue that affected the motor prior to rebuild and still does. As it comes off a cold high idle and you are driving, if you come up to a set of lights off the throttle it almost stalls. Once it’s hot it’s perfect. It’s sort of that initial 3 to 4 minutes warm up period.

I had an old Pulsar with this issue and it was an idle up solenoid?

Could it be the same? Clean up or replace?

[aldo10]

Well after 900 kms the motor has freed up a little and driving sweet. Lol.

It’s been a long project lol. Finally!

Started off at around 10L/100kms and now getting 7L/100.

Oil pressure is getting to 75psi at 2000rpm.

So far so good.

[PJT]

Nice work. I had idle problems that turned out to be dirty Throttle body and iacv.

[aldo10]

Thanks. I’ll get in there and clean things up with some carby cleaner. See what damage I can inflict lol. Apart from that I can say things are perfect.

[aldo10]

Fellas, is carby clean safe enough to spray into this IACV?

It looks like a concertina style rubber boot. I know what carb cleaner does to rubber.

[PJT]

I used brake cleaner but took the rubber gasket off first.

[aldo10]

Well I used throttle body cleaner. It’s worse. Lol. Stalls constantly now coming off revs. Bloody pain in the butt.

I’m getting over this car real quick now lol.

I have a perfectly reliable turbo diesel Hilux that just doesn’t play silly games. Lol

[aldo10]

Well I’ve done a few drives in it now and it has improved quite a bit. Still not perfect but very good.

[aldo10]

Well a new IAVC unit from Honda at a scary price has sorted it out totally. The old unit was dicey when the air cond was running.

[aldo10]

Hi fellas, it seems the problem has returned. Certainly scratching my head now. I even went to the trouble of replacing the oxygen sensor in the exhaust.

Can anyone suggest where else to look?

It’s in the warm up phase of a cold start. Once the engine is warm it’s fine. When the engine is dead cold it’s fine too. It’s just as it gets up to operating temperature.

[DSoulCRX]

sounds like an idle stepper issue or maybe there is a vacuum leak somewhere and once everything heats and expands it seals to the point it doesnt affect the idle? try making a vacuum tester and connect to the throttle pressurize it and listen for air leaks in the intake gasket etc, use soapy water to look for bubbles. Make sure you do it with a cold engine to replicate when the car idles poorly.

[aldo10]

sounds like an idle stepper issue or maybe there is a vacuum leak somewhere and once everything heats and expands it seals to the point it doesnt affect the idle? try making a vacuum tester and connect to the throttle pressurize it and listen for air leaks in the intake gasket etc, use soapy water to look for bubbles. Make sure you do it with a cold engine to replicate when the car idles poorly.

I can check for vacuum leaks. I replaced the IACV with a genuine new Honda unit. Seemed to resolve it but no. Idling with a load on the motor, air cond, head lights and wipers etc causes the engine to stall.

[Vvvtec]

have you tried turning it off and on again

[aldo10]

I can’t say I’ve tried but once you restart after a stall, it just jumps straight back up to a healthy idle.

[aldo10]

Hey fellas just a question on Ryco oil filters. One catalogue shows me a Z79A and another shows me Z411?

For a B18C7?