Pre load on coilovers

[beeza]

I Have BC Racing coilovers,BR Type.2 of the 4 have blown cartridges,front right and left rear.

I'm not surprised because I drive on some crappy bush roads.Ebay sell the cartridge for 150 and the rebuild looks straight forward.

Ok,as I was searching the net someone wrote that you can blow out a cartridge by not having the correct pre load.Is this true?

I adjusted /changed the pre load to minimal on all 4 corners when I adjusted the height thinking I was possibly making the ride softer...


I'm 99% sure its the cartridge. I was checking the lower ball joints by the meathod in the video below and a sloshing of fluid can be heard in the 2,the front one is worse than the rear.
They don't knock and the car drives/feels fine,no different.But I guess it may just completely crap out one day,do they? Better to fix it?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8mpMRXWZpOY

[Super-DA9]

Ok,as I was searching the net someone wrote that you can blow out a cartridge by not having the correct pre load.Is this true?

I say that's a load of BS

But I could be wrong so lets see what other people have to say

[beeza]

Hmmmm

Here,s a vid on how to pre load the bc coils properly:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HlqOA35NmAw

I did the first step,snug it up but no 4mm tighten up . I'm going to do it now though.

[bennjamin]

Pre loading if you are an actual race car driver - for al
other instances you are simply tightening until the spring is captive.

[beeza]

That makes sense.

Good one benny!

[beeza]

btw I set the pre load as per the video and took the car for a good drive and it feels better,a bit tighter/nicer forsure.

Every application would be different but it's what mine needed especially after removing the rear sway bar.

just need to swap the cartridge on the 2 when I get some spare dosh

[Daveho1]

Why did u remove the rear away bar?

[beeza]

For improved handling.

I can now make small fine adjustments through a hooking off camber corner at speed Without compensating for the too stiff rear which always made me feel the rear was going to break traction . Therefore sometimes I would have to cut the corner if I was a bit too quick going into it and that's dangerous with trucks who take those blind corners a bit wider.

The other reason is that the roads I drive on aren't the best,with the swsy bar those jolts go right through my body.So the car drives through the bumps much more comfortable now.

I also removed the front upper 3 pt strut brace for the same reason.

Now the car has:

Fender braces
front sway bar (stock)
floor/tunnel brace
Monoque bar
ASR Brace

BR racing coilovers

To buddy with that I'm runnin' energy suspensions 2 lower engine mount inserts and a engine torque damper in my ek1 Sedan.Replaced all the major bushes with Mugen ones a while back too.

The rear 4pt strut brace made the car way too stiff also.

[Daveho1]

Lol righto.. Should do a DIY on ASR install and rear sway bar removal for improved handling, Good info there.

Nt srs.

[beeza]

Hahaha nice one!

I know I'm thorough..

I actually read it on here from Ian (iijjee) ages ago.He removed his from his hatch and said that - improved handling.

So it good to pass that knowledge on for others to learn from.

[Daveho1]

well Ian's wrong too then, additionally u should read up on what the ASR brace is for as it serves no other perpose than to prevent subframe damage from a bigger rear sway bar.

[beeza]

Removed the sway,left the ASR because I LIKE IT.

Just for future reference. .I'm wrong sometimes,but we can get along if we try :)

Something I was wanting to find out was - If I removed the sway bar will that mean I need to re-align the rear camber?

It looks like it would release the wheel somewhat and increase the camber?

[Daveho1]

I was more pointing it out so that in te future someone elce dosnt draw the conclusion that removing a rear sway bar is going to improve handling as it simply won't, additionally if the ASR is correctly installed removing it and simply going back to standard isn't really an option due to the drilling out of some threads, that being said its been years since I last did one,As for your rear camber adjustment I think it would be advantageous for you to do some reading on suspension, not trolling seriously, It would be good for you to know.

[u mad?]

Might take my swaybar off my dc2r, weight reduction as well, sick

[beeza]

'good for to me know'?

U come accross as being arrogant dave,dunno if you've noticed

I like to learn by doing things myself,trial and error with a bit of reading to draw my own conclusions.

Every application is different.

Definitely improved handling in mine by removing it.I had it in for 6 years.

Now,if I removed it 2-5 yrs ago I would have said its worse but I drive on bumpy,windy roads full time now and it's better gone!

No jarring,smoother ride.

Rear camber - I personally do think it will change if asr is removed.I adjusted the rear camber using the washer trick.Camber is perfect.

[Daveho1]

Okay well you are mistaken and should do some reading, If that sounds arrogant to you I apologise but knowing how cars work before changing and removing things will save you time and help you make educated decisions.

[beeza]

'knowing how cars work'

Ahhh,all good man.I do appreciate the apology.

I'm not trying tell others if u do this it will be better.

My posts clearly state that I've done this and my car is better for it,the reason why it's better and the accompanying mods I have that achieved this after 10 years of trial and error.

U cant tell me my car has not improved in handling because it has.

But do u remember the reason why it's better?

The roads.i drive on bumpy roads,off camber corners,tricky roads and with the rear sway gone I HAVE MORE fine adjustment in those off camber corners where the rear can break traction (and has) with the rear sway on (too stiff).


Are u starting to see why I make long posts?

[Daveho1]

I assure u I mean no offence I'm just saying that dealing with bumpy country roads by removing the sway bar while it may feel better to you in the cabin isn't really what the suspension setup you have was designed for. You may be better off with more complient shocks and springs for example.

[beeza]

I'm going to the shop (65km to the closest shop).

65k's of hell windy/bumby roads,20 dirt.Rocks,potholes,u name it.

Not too bad when u know where they all are.

The price of living in a very secluded area.

[beeza]

I assure u I mean no offence I'm just saying that dealing with bumpy country roads by removing the sway bar while it may feel better to you in the cabin isn't really what the suspension setup you have was designed for. You may be better off with more complient shocks and springs for example.

YES! :)

I was thinking the same thing mate.

Any ideas on a set up?

I do love the coils and I will replace the cartridges,I've had them for 6 yrs or so but the roads maybe worse where I'm moving so I may just have to change.

I was just after any ideas that I could look into for future reference.

[bennjamin]

Beeza let me point this out to you

You are feeling "butt dyno" or "change from something known". It feels better to you because your brain has come adjusted to a certain fee - it feels better now so good for you. Do whatever you want.








Let me me tell you though - if handling is your thing you NEED a rear sway bar , you are actually going to kill your coil overs quicker without.
For a FWD ROAD car , the best combo is firmer PROGRESSIVE springs combined with a UPGRADED/swaybar coupled with full front and rear alignment plus good tyres.

It seems the driver needs upgrading too . Stuff coil overs are not for the street.

PS running super soft coil overs only and no swaybars is a race car thing - I feel you read this on wiki or some old man forums with open wheelers

[u mad?]

Sounds like you need some long travel rally car style suspension lol

either that or a nissan patrol

[beeza]

I can only say what works for me benny.

U know I value your knowledge but it's not the be end and end all.

It does feel better and I have more confidence now too.

I'm not the best driver but I'm 100% improved from 2006 when I started properly.

'iijjee' on here said the 'rear sway bar removed for improved handling' thing.

It's just better because of the roads.Honestly a rear sway bar out here is just too much/stiff at the rear.

U know me,it's all trial and error but my car is more comfortable on these roads without it.

U are right off course but this is my story that others can hopefully learn from.

Just like I did with ian's post . It's personnel,like buying sunglasses.

[beeza]

Sounds like you need some long travel rally car style suspension lol

either that or a nissan patrol

Haha lol it's not too bad or I wouldn't drive the roads,just gotta know when to go slow and swerve :)

The dirt roads don't have bad grating...that's the worse.A Grated dirt road.

[Super-DA9]

I'd say these guys are on the money with revising your springs/rates.

If you're experiencing a harsh ride on rough roads, it's more likely your springs and shocks, and generally coilovers such as yours are far less than ideal for those outback roads.

Keep in mind that a sway bar, or anti roll bar doesn't have much affect on ride quality when you aren't cornering, as it can freely pivot up and down with the suspension. I would think the ideal setup in your case would be some compliant springs and shocks (ideally some kind of progressive springs) combined with some decent size sway bars.

Maybe consider OEM ITR suspension or Koni yellows with your choice of aftermarket springs.

[beeza]

Yeah I feel ya man,if the new roads I will drive on are worse I'll have to change em out.

Cheers aye!

[u mad?]

http://www.flatoutsuspension.com/products/r57ek


sell current setup, buy these hehe

[bennjamin]

This is hurting my head

Beeza

A swaybar is made to maintain ride comfort with progressive suspension...and a updated one enables more advanced handling in the corners. It also prevents "rolling" or "swaying".

Your can can does NOT handle better with stiff stuff coil overs mate. Get it through your head...stop being stubborn and spreading misleading "...my experience is this so I'm right"

The only way that proper coil overs make a car handle better (than a typical swaybar accompanied car) - are combined with semi or slick race tyres , ultra weight reduction and proper LSD as a minimum.
JUST "Coil overs" will make your road car handle worse on normal road tyres due to improper weight shift between tyres and the chassis. It will make you loose traction far quicker and have far less predictable handling.




But please , remove your swaybar a and run only stuff coil overs on the road. It's entirely up to you.

[Super-DA9]

http://www.flatoutsuspension.com/products/r57ek


sell current setup, buy these hehe

wtb rallycross car

[beeza]

Calm down mate.

It does make my car handle better ON THE ROADS I DRIVE.

They coils aren't stiff,I'm more comfortable without the sway bar and it deals with the bumps better at the rear especially.

For example - one forty through a bend hit a bump 10-15cm hump or dip/hole in the road with the rear tyre.With the sway - BANG! Without the sway it rides through it more/deals with it better.Not scary-ish .. :)

Especially with it's down a good dip.

[beeza]

http://www.flatoutsuspension.com/products/r57ek


sell current setup, buy these hehe

Sweeeeeet.They could cop a beating aye.

[Daveho1]

Buy a patrol

[Daveho1]

Basically your shocks are gonna die and your corner stability will suffer

[beeza]

2 shocks already dying but car feels much better with the pre load though.

I wanna save up for the rally shocks,they look great.

u mad? Best post in the thread.

He's a good man :)

[Daveho1]

you have already killed 2 shocks and by removing the sway bar you add additional load to them, the pre load on the spring won't change this if you are smashing into mounds and pot holes at 140km/h. Really you just need decent shocks that allow for more travel than entry level coilovers, rally stuff ain't cheap and its in excess to your requirements. Buy some KYBs, koni or what have you and avoid pot holes rather than crash into them..also check your wheels for damage

[beeza]

That's just not trueshocks died from 5+ yrs of abuse,sway has only been off a couple of months mate.

The rally coilovers are probably a bit excessive but maybe that's what I need to avoid future issues and it would give me more confidence to go on the harsher roads if needed.

It would be cool.

Cheers dave,I did a good check of everything,all is good ,just the 2 cartridges.

Even the 20 yr old ball joints are fine.

Running 205/60/15 tyres on 15×7 rims.Almost a commodore tyre!

55's just weren't cutting it . Great size tyre for my needs.

Thought about going to 195/70/14 for more sidewall but No,dont need it.

https://tiresize.com/tyre-size-calculator/