Honda Radiator Coolant Life

[Haanda]

Anyone out there got any thoughts as to the practical life of the Radiator Coolant put in by the factory? (Honda All Season Antifreeze/Coolant Type 2)

The Maintenance Schedule in the owners manual gives a time/distance span as "200,000 kms/10 years, then 100,000 kms/ 5 years therafter, EXCEPT FOR SOUTH AFRICA, AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND models," but then does not give any time/distance for the latter. (Page 468 of the 2011 issue of the Accord /Accord Euro owner manual)
However the Service Manual says change it at 200,000 kms orn 10 years. (120 months)

Seeing that most advise to change the auto trans fluid earlier than what the Service Manual says, what about Engine Coolant?

Also, opinions on a suitable alternative to the Honda labelled coolant, which would not be made by Honda anyway and is probably way overpriced? (I'm thinking on the lines of something like "Nulon Blue." ..... http://www.nulon.com.au/products/cooling_systems/Blue_Long_Life_Premix_Coolant)

[Martin77]

Maybe Honda didnt design their cars to last more than 300,000 km.
I think the reason for 5 years interval instead of the original 10 is for conservatism as we may not be able to change the entire coolant if we drain from the bottom of the radiator.
Nulon has a new blue coolant and when I saw it thought that its for our Honda. Can you please check this? It has a long life too.

[beeza]

I use nulon pre-mix,buy at repco.

Drain a little out and compare to fresh coolant.There's a coolant change diy on here by aaronng,I can't find it,can someone?

It has an old vs new comparison pic.

3 years is heaps.Swap it out for 20 bucks..

Undo clamp on bottom hose on radiator and stick the garden hose in the top hose and flush the ols out completely (remove thermostat).

Or pay $140 to have it reversed flushed.Only needs doing if old though.

[Haanda]

Thanks guys.

My 2012 CU2 Euro is only approaching 50K Kms.
My gut feeling was to change it at 5 years, irrespective of K's traveled, but I wanted to get other opinions first.

[beeza]

For increased cooling efficiency remove thermostat for good. Mine has been removed for a year now.

Never uses coolant and is always cool.

I do a 1400km drive 6-8 times a year too.

I Love it gone.

No cooling issues here.

EDIT: I Cut the guts of it out left the outside,so no leakage.

[Martin77]

For increased cooling efficiency remove thermostat for good. Mine has been removed for a year now.

Never uses coolant and is always cool.

I do a 1400km drive 6-8 times a year too.

I Love it gone.

No cooling issues here.

EDIT: I Cut the guts of it out left the outside,so no leakage.

This is not for everybody as it depends on the drive (short or long). Taking the guts out of the thermostat, will mean that it will take longer for the engine to reach operating temperature. Maximum efficiency (including fuel) has been designed and optimized at engine operating temperature.

[Haanda]

The Thermostat is only there for engine warm up. Once the engine is at operating temperature it will be fully open, so there would be no difference once the engine is hot if a thermostat is present, unless of course it fails to open at all.
Overheating is caused buy many issues. Contributing factors can be: A blockage in the cooling system; incorrect engine timing; low coolant level; radiator damage; failed pressure cap; blown head gasket; no oil; water pump failure, failed or perished hoses, to name a few of the more common ones.

But I don't have any cooling issues on this car, which has been used in city driving in temps up to 43C and never overheated or played up, including making smooth transmission changes on those very hot days. (On that latter note, I change the auto tranny fluid every 20,000 kms on the cars I own, but that is covered in a different thread.)

I just don't buy doing 200,000 kms on a fill of Radiator coolant! :)

I think a system flush and refill with Nulon Blue will be the path I will take.

[beeza]

The fuel you save isn't noticeable but a blown head gasket due to a stuck thermostat isn't good. Happened to my old suzuki swift.

The big difference haanda is that the coolant temp never goes (only maybe on a really hot day) above the C.Only moves a little.

Advantages:

More power (heat robs power)
Uses no coolant
The sensitive 1 volt sensors all over the engine will last longer/less prone to failure - due to much lower temperature fluctuations.
Cooler in the cabin.

I bet you can think of more.

But no one on here would be brave enough to just remove it.

P.S. If I lived in tassie,I might keep it.

[Martin77]

It is better to change it earlier. I would do the same.
Does anyone know which coolant the cl9 is suppose to take? I bought my car second hand and it has been changed (pump was charged) with green coolant? I think the blue coolant is better but afraid in changing it as the chemistry might be very different. Yes, you say it is OK to change it as long as I flush it first. I'm not too confident about my flush able to remove the green coolant entirely.

[bennjamin]

oem honda thermostats seize open
If you non honda thermostat and or non honda coolant you can seize the cooling system with all sorts of gunk

PS don't remove your thermostat. Leave it in place it's not a race car

[beeza]

I got this from hond-tech:

Stuck thermostat,stuck open

*is allowing coolant to flow through theradiator*at ALL times. Therefore when stopped, you have no airflow thru theradiator. This allows car to reach normal operating temps. Once back moving the airflow will cool the coolant/radiator enough to OVERCOOL the car because the OPEN thermostat is not working.

Basically, a thermostat will regulate the amount of coolant aloowed to flow into the*radiator*to dissapate heat.

Confused? Most are.


Yeah,I only drive country roads no traffic lights..

[Martin77]

That paragraph from Honda tech is not very helpful. The thermostat has nothing to do with airflow. Its water flow.
Previously a failed thermostat would fail shut. This is bad for the engine. If Hondas thermostat fail open, it is good as it is fail safe (engine doesn't overheat because of a failed thermostat).
The thermostat doesn't regulate engines temperature by regulating its degree of opening, it is usually open or close (fully) in a narrow temperature band.

[beeza]

Just read it a few times,it's spot on.I think if you removed the 'therefore' it reads better.

The thermostat is a engine temp regulator..

[Haanda]

Lots of interesting theories here. Many moons ago I once ran an XYGT I owned, without a thermostat and it made no real difference except for a very long warm up on cold mornings.
But those cars had no computers controlling fuel mixture etc, unlike nowdays, where engine temperature is critical in the computer control systems fine tuning of the fuel mixture.

The problems one can have with reliable engine running, if a temperature sensor goes bad, is enough to give one ulcers (: ( Happened in my daughters Toyota--- took us days to trace the problem.)

Our Euro has been into the Victorian Alpine region in Winter and around rural central NSW in Mid Summer, without any cooling issues.

The gent who looks after the mechanical side of our car is an ex Gibson Motorsport engineer (from the days of Mark Skaife and Jim Richards and then Craig Lowdnes when he crossed from HRT to Ford) and knows what will and will not work, to get top performance out of a car, be it a "set the points and plugs gap and ensure that the correct jets are fitted in the carby " (and then leave it alone) to a modern day computer controlled, fuel injected engined vehicle. I will be getting him to sort out the radiator flush when the time comes.

[beeza]

*"set the points and plugs gap and ensure that the correct jets are fitted in the carby " (and then leave it alone).

Haha nice nice!!

Ahhh shoot,those days,the cars were so much more user friendly.

Now,it's computers and seemingly more complicated.

It took me a few years to get my head right round it,it does make the journey more rewarding though.


My mate has a 1927 chevy tourer.Talk about simple,I think that car is epic.Advance/retard ignition timing on the steering wheel,open top,will go places our civics and accords cant go,85km/h on wooden spoked wheels that flex!!
And the cool factor,check it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gsu7NU2lo4A

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m3Wx6V6ZGwM

[Haanda]

:cool: Love it ha ha....A REAL car that doesn't look like every other car on the road. :)

[beeza]

Awesome aye :) He completely restored it,stripped completely and rebuilt it.He has all the parts to build another one,the frame is under the house.

It opened my eyes hahaha

Super easy to drive where the model T of the same era was Difficult and dangerous.

[Martin77]

The thermostat only speeds up the warm up period to reach engines operating temperature. It doesn't regulate the temperature. You may notice a difference with its removal only if the thermostat is faulty, partially open or the thermostat is too restrictive (doesn't allow the designed amount of fluid to flow through). Many older cars have a thermostat that failed shut, its removal will ensure that a thermostat failure doesn't overheat the car.

What determine the temperature is the engine heat load and its cooling system (mainly radiator size, fan, travel speed). Other minor things that could influence the temperature a little include water flow (pumps, restrictions), water to coolant ratio, etc...

With this, I am wondering why electric water pump is not part of all cars. With sufficiently sized radiator it will control engines temperature much better, which could eliminate the need of a radiator fan.

[Haanda]

Probably because of longevity and reliability issues.
If the electric motor packs up, goodbye engine. At least with a belt driven pump you get longevity.
Mind you, many early cars, right up to the early "low light" Morris Minor (with it's pre WW2 designed 850cc side valve engine) did not even have a water pump and coolant circulation was done by "thermosyphon" effect.

[beeza]

Regulate,meaning maintain the temperature because without it my cars coolant temp hardly moves at all.

All the differences I noted on the previous page,wasn't faulty.

What car/cars did you try it on Martin?

[beeza]

Haanda,the water pump driven by the timing belt on my car,forces the water through the system.When the thermostat is shut,there has to be a build up of pressure in there,major pressure I would imagine. ..

Doesn't it make sense to remove that pressure if there are no consequences. Which I have found none.In fact I believe when I back of the throttle my car doesn't lurch forward,cause no pressure needs releasing.

Also sending a load of cool water through the engine after being quite warmer causes spikes in temperature.That's not good.

[Fredoops]

I changed from honda blue to normal green coolant 5 years ago. And I just change it every 3 years in a 50 50 mix.

[AndrewRox22]

I changed from honda blue to normal green coolant 5 years ago. And I just change it every 3 years in a 50 50 mix.

Mine came with green when I bought it so have been doing the same as well every 3-5 years..... still do a full flush everytime though.

Our newer honda has blue, on the fence about swapping it over as well

[beeza]

Don't you wanna pay top dollar for the oem stuff?

I heard you can have all sorts of problems if you don't use oem LOOOOOOL

[Fredoops]

I believe honda had been using both green and blue for a period of time. So it could be either.

[beeza]

My mate has been using the red coolant for 4-5 yrs now,no issues.

The only other thing I've changed in the coolant system is put in a low temp radiator fan switch,which turns the radiator fan on a few degrees cooler than the stock sensor.

I'm sure you guys know about em.

[minircc]

I am using the Nulon One (yellow coolant) which is compatible for Honda. Comes with 10 year and 1,000,000kms warranty. Yep, 1,000,000!

[minircc]

Also, i connected the obd2 scanner on the car when i drove to healesville sanctuary. Coolant temp ranged from 60 to 85. A good sign.

[AndrewRox22]

I am using the Nulon One (yellow coolant) which is compatible for Honda. Comes with 10 year and 1,000,000kms warranty. Yep, 1,000,000!

do you have a link to the warranty?

I know they claim 10 years and 1,000,000km but there's no warranty i dont think...

also when changing colours you really need to make sure you get all of the old stuff out with a few complete fills of water, one of the reasons our 2013 will be staying with blue

[minircc]

https://www.nulon.com.au/products/Cooling_Systems/One_Coolant

It doesn't mention warranty, but it does say guarantee. Under the specifications tab is where it shows Honda compatibility.
I won't be leaving it in for 10 years or 1,000,000kms, just thought it's a funny claim. Maybe taxi's will like it because they actually do that many kms.

I have used Nulon products for many years so trust their stuff, especially coolants.

I just drained the radiator, made sure it all came out of the heater and the coolant reservoir.
Didn't do any water flushes.

Then mixed the Nulon with de-mineralised water (50/50) and in it went, and made sure engine idled until there were no bubbles and fan went on etc..
I have driven it for a few weeks already, there isn't any trace of blue in the coolant. Just yellow.

I know what you mean though, normally i also like to keep it oem colour.

[minircc]

btw Nulon also have the blue version of the coolant.
https://www.nulon.com.au/products/Cooling_Systems/Blue_Long_Life_Concentrated_Coolant

[jjman]

This is a common fallacy that still pops up alot.
Not having a thermostat is bad for a non-race car as well as unnecessary in the first place.
-modern thermostats seize open, not shut- so unnecessary in the first place.
-the extended warm up time from having no thermostat means more time spent at a high wear state both due to the non-optimal operating temps of the engine components, as well as a longer period of richer fuel mixture (cold engine temp fuel maps) which accelerates bore/ring wear.
-finally, in cold winter conditions your car will run too cold as it cannot get up to proper operating temps and the aforementioned issues will be occurring. so it is not true as per the below post that the thermostat is only there for warm-up. it is also to maintain operating temps in colder conditions.
Finally, you wont have more power. the thermostat is there to keep temps at optimum operating temps. you can only go backwards from here. and not having a thermostat in wont do anything to reduce the peak temps you will reach on a very hot day (e.g. in traffic with air con on).

thermostats are there for a reason on all normal road cars. you bettering the R&D of a century of automotive industry...

[beeza]

It's good to get some nice sounding info.They say 'all seize open' yet mine was seized shut a year ago.I was using the car to charge a battery for solar for 2 hrs once a week for 6 months. Direct connection with jumper leads.I was doing it and found the coolant boiling,then found the seized closed thermostat. BOTTOM RADIATOR HOSE WAS COLD.
I use a product called sm-33.It ceramic coats the working engine parts,giving them protection. "Technology from the future" as they say. I also regularly use moreys upper cylinder lubricant.
If I drove in traffic I would put it in but I don't. I have no air con.I just moved to a cooler area but it's not cold.Cold is snow or close to it.
Proper operating temps.. it's only a d16 lol my car loves being cooler cause heat is the enemy and I've reduced it . It suits my car but after learning a bit more about it I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. ..try at your own risk..my engine cost me $0 so nothing to lose.

[beeza]

Cerma stm-3 not sm-33 lol that's for mouth ulcers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hGwOLk8x7Sg

[Martin77]

Does the Cerma additive makes a difference for you beeza? I think they are about $100. Its supposed to last a long time.

There are other ceramic additive that cost significantly less like liqui Moly ceratec or liqui moly engine protect that claims to protect and reduce friction. They cost about $40.

[beeza]

Cerma is the shiz man.The others don't compare and it's forever . I've done it to 2 engines,an auto and a manual. It pays for itself due to less accelerator pedal being applied.
If you read the comments in that vid you will see the skepticism that they are up against.

[jjman]

usually it is when people put aftermarket cheaper thermostats in that are what ends up jamming shut.

anything below 5-10 degrees (celsius) on the highway will overcool your motor.

a cooler motor is not a more powerful or efficient one (cooler intake air yes, but not the motor). usually it is 85-95 degrees that motors are performing their best- depending on the setup of the motor. do the coolant temp diagnostic function on your multimedia/climate control and you will see that is exactly where CL9s sit.

good luck with all those additives man. most do FA and can cause other problems in the engine. good quality oil, maintenance and running it within ideal operating range is what makes engines perform best and last the longest.

[beeza]

Ah true,my thermostat was a cheapie.

5-10 degrees,below that will over cool the engine. Sounds good mate,I will check that out,cheers!

Check out the cerma jjman,it really is a great product.

"Cerma STM-3 is not an additive*– it's a catalyst, and therefore does not alter the state of the motor oil circulating ... Cerma STM-3 does not mix with the oil, it uses the oil as a carrier to move it around the entire engine."

[beeza]

An overcooled engine can suffer from the following :*
(a) Increased cylinder wear.
(6) Dilution of oil due to poor vaporization of petrol.
(c) Greater formation of sludge.
(d) Oil does not thin out properly and fluid friction losses are increased.
(e) Engine does not achieve full power.
(f) Burnt gases, which leak past piston, condense in the crankcase to form corrosive acids in oil.
(g) Lower thermal efficiency i.e. more consumption of fuel.
Table 12.3. Most Probable Causes of Overcooling.

Int

[beeza]

Cold climate stuff I.e usa,Europe,tassie :)

Thanks mate,will keep this in mind since I moved to a cooler area.

[jjman]

ok cool i will check out the Cerma product. as there are some products that can do a good job. i.e. there are some really good friction modifiers out there that can really do a great job in their specific application.

best of luck mate and enjoy the cooler climate.

[beeza]

Thanks jjman,good to hear ya knowledge mate.

[Fredoops]

Just so we're clear....

All those "cerm [insert name here]" that's all the rage in the past 10 or so years.

Despite all the "secrecy" are just chemical ceramic...

In particular. Boron derivatives. Usually Boron Nitrate aka: White Graphite.

Your average engine oils and other industial lubrication mixes actually already have it.... as a zddp replacement.

All youre doing is adding to what's already a part of the oil.

Bascially all those additives are in one way or another. Dry/solid film lubricants.

There's nothing special or secrete about them.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/861/solid-film-lubricants

All yall have been doing is more or less just using another form of moly that's been around for 50 years+.

[Fredoops]

.

"Cerma STM-3 is not an additive*– it's a catalyst, and therefore does not alter the state of the motor oil circulating ... Cerma STM-3 does not mix with the oil, it uses the oil as a carrier to move it around the entire engine."

hogwash.


What's written above is exactly how zddp and moly and boron nitrate work in every day engine oils. Zddp and moly had been used for 50 plus years.

They're selling you somthing you already have. And make it sound like it's something special when it's how any other engine additive had been working for 50+ years.

Boron nitrate is $75 per 100 grams and it'll last you 20 years if you so wish it. Cut out the middle man, or you guys get it from engine oil additive suppliers like ExxonMobil.

Here's another one of those Boron Nitrate additive sellers. At lease those gus are open and honest about what they are selling you:
http://www.topspindesign.com/business/bn_additive.htm

This one even have titanium nano-oxide with the boron.

Guess where you heard titanium nano-oxide before?

Castrol Edge **Titanium**, yep. It's in your everyday oil too.

[beeza]

Nice one Fred.

REPPED.

Would you know where I can order the tsd bn product?

[Martin77]

We are a little off topic (radiator coolant).

Liqui Moly ceratec, I'm sure its boron nitride based. I used this on my previous car (lancer), maybe its a little smoother at idle.

I was buying brake pads from brakes direct and it seems like they sell roil platinum (metal conditioner). You should ask Greg, Matt or Nathan from brakes direct and maybe you could trial one for us. I don't think brakes direct would sell snake oil....

[beeza]

That looks like a treatment that only lasts with the oil.So when you change the oil it's gone.

Cerma is lifetime

boron nitrate said good for 20 years.

Liquid moly says With long-term effect for 50,000 km.

[Martin77]

From what you are saying cerma is the better product. You may have found a secret to keep your engine running forever.

Talking about coolant, has anyone used penrite coolant test strips to test the condition of the coolant? I'm thinking that condition based monitoring would be better than routine coolant replacement as we know the current condition of the coolant, which may need replacement sooner than expected.

[Richard B]

I'm not sure what the Penrite strips actually test. AFAIK the only real issue with old coolants is degraded corrosion inhibition. The various anti-freeze and anti-boil additives break down much more slowly than the corrosion inhibitors added to coolant additive.

If you follow standard practice and replace your water pump every time you replace a timing belt, you will never encounter the effects of degraded coolant unless you capture your coolant and poured it back in or something.

If you fill your cooling system with plain water, you can do your normal driving as long as your cooling system is in good order. Just don't go towing your boat over the mountains

Cooling systems are (mostly) over-engineered so they can deal with extreme temperature situations. Taking that into account I once drove my old Accord hundreds of kilometers with a punctured radiator but loosening the radiator cap and turning the cooling system from pressurised to atmospheric. As the leak was high up I didn't lose much coolant once the level in the radiator dropped to where the hole was.

Of course by doing that, the temperature gauge will happily show half way while the system boils dry :eek: so you need to check how much water is left in the radiator every now and then.

[beeza]

LOL,Martin,there's no secrets here mate.The strips sound good.I haven't tried em.

Wow,that's mad Richard,like something I would see on bush mechanics!

Bush mechanics FTW.

[Martin77]

Wow,that's mad Richard,like something I would see on bush mechanics!

Bush mechanics FTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55pdUjNgwAY

[Martin77]

If you follow standard practice and replace your water pump every time you replace a timing belt, you will never encounter the effects of degraded coolant unless you capture your coolant and poured it back in or something.

If you fill your cooling system with plain water, you can do your normal driving as long as your cooling system is in good order. Just don't go towing your boat over the mountains

Cooling systems are (mostly) over-engineered so they can deal with extreme temperature situations. Taking that into account I once drove my old Accord hundreds of kilometers with a punctured radiator but loosening the radiator cap and turning the cooling system from pressurised to atmospheric. As the leak was high up I didn't lose much coolant once the level in the radiator dropped to where the hole was.

Of course by doing that, the temperature gauge will happily show half way while the system boils dry :eek: so you need to check how much water is left in the radiator every now and then.

Thanks Richard.

[beeza]

Been talking with John Murray,the FOUNDER and CEO of cerma,this is what he said,bless him for being online and available,6 hrs I had a reply on youtube!
He knows what it takes in this world to keep your head above water,EVEN WITH a superior product like his.
Thanks John.


John Murray

Brett,*Thanks for the post,,, As to those suggesting cerma is boron nitride or white graphite or any other out dated technology? NOT!*Cerma technology was developed in 1999 by me while running a company that was employed by both private and gov. entities that had problems with engineering, mech application, etc! Cerma was originally designed to reduce harmonic signatures ( see metallurgy testing), later STM-3 was applied to reduce smog in engines (see EPA testing) we tested the product for over 5 years prior to selling one drop of cerma treatment, (all public testing is on site)*But more directly: Cerma STM-3 is a new technology that has never been utilized in the world of engines before. to the nay sayers well? I would say technology is always evolving and to say it is something old or a rehash of same old thing, prior to doing the research on the technology, just shows how ignorant some can be.Evolution can be very scary to those that are stuck in there own outdated world. I would ask them if they are aware that in 1999 computers were 1000 times less powerful, cell phone were not smart, internet was Small , and AOL was the ISP leader.... Evolution, things change , improve, we USA landed mar's , but to some the earth is still flat and there fine with that.. God bless them.

[Fredoops]

Grand statement with no answers. Sounds like a pyramid scheme salesman.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=958555

STM-3 is a Polyether or Polyester-modified polydialkylsiloxane mixed at .5 to 2.5 percent by volume in a carrier. It goes further to state that a 100% siloxane product is available from BYK Chemie USA, Inc. as BYK-333

Here's the "patent":
http://www.google.com.au/patents/EP1786890A1?cl=en

If you got a patent what's stopping them from just saying what it is?

And why was the patent withdrawn in 2011 after an examination report by the patent office?

Oh btw if you want this additive in bulk:
http://m.1688.com/offer/520576388879.html?spm=a26g8.7662792.1998744630.2.d lc29R

Mixture in the patent is 0.5% by volume in base oil.

$290 CNY for a kilo. Which is I think $50 aud give or take.

[beeza]

The company has only grown in leaps and bounds since 2011.

Gotta be doing something right.

Enlighten me on the patent thingy..

[Fredoops]

Well if you take something that's worth not a whole lot then sell it for 100x it's cost price of course you make money.

Look. Someone decided to put some paint additive into engine and see how it go.

He think he hit gold mine. So he gets something that's $60 a kilo, repackage and sells it to you at what? $100 for 8oz (which isn't 8oz of the poly/silicone stuff, the patent tells you the formula)?

The guy put in a patent in 2004 claiming all those benefits . The patent office thinks about it and issued a examination report in 2008 (bascially a "please explain" and "give further info"). Something happened or didn't happen that resulted in the patent office shutting down the patent application in 2011.


Also, there seems to have been some drama with the company a few years ago
http://m.ripoffreport.com/r/cerma-technology-inc/internet/cerma-technology-inc-sells-cermax-branded-products-for-lubrication-ceramic-lube-staceyv-334703#comment_3

You'd think that if someone had stolen your formula before already, you'd push through with the patent application to make sure it doesn't happen again. Appreantly not

Bit of context. My mum used to work with venture capitalists back in the day. Where they would be flooded with claims/inventers wanting funding/investment. Most would have patents pending. Half of those patents don't check out. Go figure.

[Martin77]

Good job Fred for doing the investigation. And thanks Beeza for clarifying that cerma is not Boron Nitride.

I bought cerma once and it does help with lubrication. In saying that, $100 is expensive for one dose (2 oz). How much did you get it for Beeza?
Given the price of Liqui Moly Ceratec or Engine Protect (motor protect in USA), $50 is reasonable for this sort of product. More people will try it and if it is good, people will tell others about it.

There are good additive as mentioned before, where we need to replace it at every oil change and it cost approx $15 per treatment. This include Liqui Moly MOS2, Lubegard Biotech (from Amazon) and others. $100 gets 6 treatments and you have the flexibility of not using it (in the future) if the product is not good. I think the improved lubrication is the same but we need to consider the cost and longevity.

[Fredoops]

There are good additive as mentioned before, where we need to replace it at every oil change and it cost approx $15 per treatment. This include Liqui Moly MOS2, Lubegard Biotech (from Amazon) and others. $100 gets 6 treatments and you have the flexibility of not using it (in the future) if the product is not good. I think the improved lubrication is the same but we need to consider the cost and longevity.


That. Is the golden question.

One can claim an additive do what ever it does.

Is it any better than $15 worth of Zinc (I get the rislone zddp, last 2 oil changes)?

Or a $16 bottle of MOS2?

[beeza]

Cheers Martin,I was quite thrilled to talk to the creator himself and such a quick response (YouTube).I paid 96 and 64 for manual transmission .

U can buy it on amazon,ebay has 1 seller or:

https://www.cermastore.com/treatments.html

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00AZONNHS/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483250843&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=cerma+stm-3+manual+transmission&dpPl=1&dpID=41Hs87sDISL&ref=plSrch

http://m.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?isRefine=true&sid=morecoenergy

Um,no,lubrication is not the same as those cheap additives,not the same at all but do ya own research yeah.

+1 for cerma,lets move on lol

[Martin77]

Thanks Beeza,
I think cerma will work differently with different cars.
I put cerma on my lancer (car is gone now-transmission) at about 360,000 km on the clock. I put the cerma shortly after an oil change (John's recommendation) and drove it as per instruction ( took a detour from normal route to work) on the day it was put in. My drive to work is 35 km each way and mostly 80-110 km/hr. I didn't notice significant change until one day I took my car to Bathurst (for work) in an area where there are a lot of hill climb. This is about 8000 km after I put the cerma and noticed significant difference. I changed the oil probably 4000 km after that and I wasnt 100% sure, if the improvement carries over to the next oil change as I always use good synthetic oil (redline and motul).
I think cerma works if the car temperature get elevated to a certain high level and I'm not sure if it will work with Honda as it is a relatively smooth engine. My brother has an old laser and it runs hot. It probably work well with that car. So I think cerma is not for every car or everyone. It won't work if we drive it gently.

Let's move on. John Murray would need to send a free sample to Fred and I so that we could do more testing with it. Can you please ask John to do this?

[beeza]

Free samples. .No Martin lol

[Fredoops]

Let's move on. John Murray would need to send a free sample to Fred and I so that we could do more testing with it. Can you please ask John to do this?

I don't want it,

They 'inventor" already put his formula in the patent application for all the world to see.

it's just industrial paint additive (BYK-333. he said so himself), if I want it I can make it myself, and I don't. So there.


It' bonds and coats metal, it's "permanent" (until it wears off) just like zinc, i already have zinc, why do I need a 2nd layer of metal bonding material?