Bang for your bucks – VtiR Civic / Vtec CRX

[TODA AU]

By request,
Bang for your bucks – VtiR Civic / Vtec CRX (B16A ~ B16B engine)

As with other bang for bucks posts…

If you only ever drive on the street, stop reading here…
If you drive on the track…
The following parts are must haves…
Oil cooler / low temp thermo fan switch…
If you can’t afford a good aftermarket radiator, at least fit a low temp thermostat.
Both are better…. Suspension & brakes also need to be addressed.
These aught to be addressed before you chase any extra HP.
As for getting more power, Honda’s are pretty fussy…
The actual parts combination is everything…
It must be put together exactly right… I can’t stress enough how important this is.
Once it’s put together right, it can be tuned… This also should be spot on…
The three work together, if 1 side has a weakness, power suffers…
Examples: Your pipe dream combination isn’t right… Power suffers…
Your mechanic doesn’t really know what he’s doing… Power suffers…
Even with perfect combination & assembly, with crap tuning… Power suffers…

Low budget – never going to get an ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive (EG: ATS)
#4 – Intake (CAI – Eg: Injen / Mugen)
#5 – Header + cat + cat-back system
#6 – Type R camshafts / adjustable cam pulleys (optional)
Power output: 106~110kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)

Medium budget – Stop @ ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive (Eg: ATS)
#4 – Intake (CAI – Eg: Injen / Mugen)
#5 – Header + cat + cat-back system
#6 – Spec C camshafts / valve springs / adjustable cam pulleys / oil pump gear /

fuel pump - optional / fuel pressure regulator - optional / ECU / dyno tuning.
Power output: 114~118kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

High budget – best power delivery
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Type R Intake manifold & throttle + (CAI – Eg: Injen / Mugen)
#5 – Header + cat + cat-back system
#6 – Ported head / Spec C camshafts / valve springs/ Titanium retainers / adjustable cam pulleys/ Hi power timing belt / oil pump gear / fuel pump / Forged pistons 12.5:1 / modified stock rods / fuel pressure regulator / ECU / dyno tuning.
Power output: 122~126kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

NB: Add 1.8L stroker kit for more power. 132kw ~ 136kw (Spec B camshaft)

Maximum effort (extreeme budget) – Change to B18CR engine. (Std intake manifold)
#1 – Lightweight flywheel (Consider super single or twin plate carbon)
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Type R gearbox & Lower final drive
#4 – Intake (CAI – Eg: Injen / Mugen)
#5 – Header + cat + cat-back system
#6 – Ported head / Spec C camshafts / valve springs/ Titanium retainers / adjustable cam pulleys/ Hi power timing belt / oil pump gear / fuel pump / Forged pistons 12.5+:1 / TODA sleaved engine block / lightweight aftermarket rods / fuel pressure regulator / injectors / ECU / dyno tuning.
Power output: 146~154kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

Race engine - Improved production car / drag - Use B18C engine as base
#1 – Hyper R or twin plate carbon clutch
#2 – Type R gearbox with cross gear kit
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake - Muiti throttle (Sports injection) or suitable alternative.
#5 – Header + cat-back system (65~70mm)
#6 – Ported head / Spec C camshafts / valve springs/ Titanium retainers / adjustable cam pulleys/ Hi power timing belt / oil pump gear / fuel pump / Forged pistons 12.5+:1 / TODA sleaved engine block / lightweight aftermarket rods / fuel pressure regulator / injectors / ECU / dyno tuning.
Power output: 156~162kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)
For D series (Incl ZC) engines…

Due to poor aftermarket support & lower outputs

An engine swap offers better value than modifying the existing engine.

Cross gear kits do exist for the std civic gb, best to compare the price with a Type R swap…

For cuircut cars, remove std Type R LSD & replace with clutch pack style dif centre. (Cusco, ATS, KAAZ, etc)



4cyl FWD shootout reference
150 ramp rate / 80 inertia
Correction per dyno weather station.

Avoid temptation to use B20 engine...
This engine block is not as strong & does not last.
Further the crankshaft is not capable of sustained high rpm.
For 2L & over capacity, use B18C engine as base.
Comment away...
Cheers

Adrian

[ian]

have you got cost estimates for low & medium budget mods please adrian.

[wynode]

Nice work Adrian thank's for that!

So if you were in the market for a LSD for the track you'd advise something aftermarket as opposed to the ITR LSD?

[raff]

great post!

should be a sticky!

been waiting for one of these posts for civic/crx for a while....

[**Ghost**]

yay... : )

[z3lda]

now u just need ti add price tag to that and it'll be complete :D:D:D

[DMT]

upto 136 fwkw from a 1.6lt n/a and upto 162 fwkw from a 1.8lt n/a its amazing the power outputs these engines can muster when built properly!

i only got an average 115 fwkw from my 2.2lt (H22A) which is pretty stock

good info though, how about some quad throttle bodies added to the list :thumbsup:

[Astro]

can u actually use ITR camshafts with vtir valve springs?

will it support it? or is the valve springs too weak?

[hoonda]

yeah, cost estimates would be good

shouldnt JDM b16a2 be pushing your 'low budget' figures w/o camshaft but with ecu anyway? or is this just more a general type of thing with AUSDM engines in mind?

[panda[cRx]]

good info though, how about some quad throttle bodies added to the list :thumbsup:

not too much point unless its a track only car. would be a bitch to get them engineered coz i guess u'd need a box around them.:o

[TODA AU]

can u actually use ITR camshafts with vtir valve springs?

will it support it? or is the valve springs too weak?

ITR cams are ok as a drop in if the rpm limit is never increased.
Should you change the ECU & increase the rev limit at a later date.
Be sure to fit a set of ITR intake valve springs to the inlet valves & move the existing intake valve springs accross to the exhaust side. This will prevent valve float should you up the rev limit using ITR cams.
For sustained high rpm, ITR lost motion assemblies should also be used.

[TODA AU]

good info though, how about some quad throttle bodies added to the list :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Quad throttles are mentioned in regard to the race engine.

#4 – Intake - Muiti throttle (Sports injection) or suitable alternative.

I don't recommend these for the street due to exessive drive by noise & non compliance with any road laws. Though they offer great gains throughout the rev range, particularly mid range & offer incredible response. They really don't suit an application where the car often sees a public road.

[jackosimm]

great write up mate, some great info there, good work:thumbsup:

[**Ghost**]

hey Toda-AU, in terms of I/H/E combination... is the following

ARC Intake
AUSDM ITR 4-2-1 Headers
AUSDM ITR piping from headers to cat
Custom 2.25 Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel B-Pipe welded so its ONE PIECE with the muffler (straight through exhaust with resonators basically)

is the above combination good enough to achieve the power figures of the "cheapo budget" dyno output?

[TODA AU]

hey Toda-AU, in terms of I/H/E combination... is the following

ARC Intake
AUSDM ITR 4-2-1 Headers
AUSDM ITR piping from headers to cat
Custom 2.25 Mandrel Bent Stainless Steel B-Pipe welded so its ONE PIECE with the muffler (straight through exhaust with resonators basically)

is the above combination good enough to achieve the power figures of the "cheapo budget" dyno output?

Hey...
Probably not what you want to hear, but in short, no...
IMO, The ARC airbox belongs in the bin.
This product is bordering on garbage.
It does not offer any real performance gains over the std airbox, only noise.

AUDM ITR headers are rather ordinary. You're better off with the std B16A cast iron exhaust manifold. The only benifit the ITR manifold offers is a slight weight saving. They are nothing compared to JDM ITR headers.
Good example:
Using AUDM ITR headers on a stock bottom end B16A with JUN Step 3 cams & springs, ITR intake manifold, ITR throttle, Mugen Twin loop cat back, S2000 cat, Apexi power FC.
The power output peaked at 108kw.
Changing the header to a JUN (M-Bit) 4-2-1 item, the power could be then tuned up to 118kw. There's more in this car by way of intake, which, like the ARC box, is less than ideal. That being a "Simota" whale's penis.
An Injen CAI, AEM CAI or Mugen intake would see power then be able to be tuned to around 120kw.

The pipe from the header to the cat should be no problem.
It is smaller than used with JDM headers, but it'll be OK,

Re 2.25" exhaust. It should be ok. Though I can't vouch for what it might sound like. The X-force twin loops are a good idea if you're using a cheaper exhaust & want a deeper sportier note without the fart can sound & excessive noise.

[**Ghost**]

thanks man... but 2 questions

1. what is wrong withthe ARC intake? right now i'm running twin K/N filters top and bottom btw not the paper ones nemore

2. So are u saying the AUDM ITR headers are actually worse off than the standard EK4 B16A? or the same?

[genesis]

I need some advice as well for my b16a2 setup...

At the moment I have the following:
- custom intake with dc2 airbox with k&n pod
- JDM ITR 4-1 header (with 2.5" collector)
- custom 2.5" stainless exhaust with spoon n1 muffler
- exedy organic clutch kit and lightened flywheel
- plus other extensive suspension mods, etc.

I am planning on building up the head with some stage 2 cams, valve springs, retainers, flat valves, lma's, ITR intake manifold + throttle body and power fc. I have also been contemplating buying an ITR lower block and putting this built head on it. That's if I can find one for a good price.

My goal is alot more midrange torque and about 120kwatw.

Any thoughts guys?

[siba]

hey man i have a 97 civic coupe n im not sure what the ebgine type or if its an ek1 or ek4 how can i tell????

[**Ghost**]

pop ur bonnet... and read the engine plate... look at ur rego (the sticker) and read the engine code...

[Choongas]

hey man i have a 97 civic coupe n im not sure what the ebgine type or if its an ek1 or ek4 how can i tell????

97 should be a d16

[TODA AU]

thanks man... but 2 questions

1. what is wrong withthe ARC intake? right now i'm running twin K/N filters top and bottom btw not the paper ones nemore

2. So are u saying the AUDM ITR headers are actually worse off than the standard EK4 B16A? or the same?

The ARC airbox is not a clever design.
Seriously, It is no better than the factory airbox with the lid off.
it is just an ugly, alloy boxy intake that tends to suck in a lot of hot air.
I simply cannot endorse it.
(Example: You may have seen the DC2R in last month's Speed magazine.
It has an ARC airbox. This made the car an absolute prick to tune.
Plus, no matter what, the results are inferior to what the std intake is capable of & that car is down on power because of that intake.)
Honestly, just because it has a bit of a name, in no way imparts performance.
If somebody recommends this product, you should ask why?
Because it really doesn't work.

Regarding the AUDM headers,
Years ago we tried this sort of thing with a variety of other mods.
The AUDM headers are crap. Don't ever waste a cent on buying them, because the gains simply are not there over what you've got.
They're not worse, but they're no better.
Save your money for something that actually works.

[TODA AU]

I need some advice as well for my b16a2 setup...

At the moment I have the following:
- custom intake with dc2 airbox with k&n pod
- JDM ITR 4-1 header (with 2.5" collector)
- custom 2.5" stainless exhaust with spoon n1 muffler
- exedy organic clutch kit and lightened flywheel
- plus other extensive suspension mods, etc.

I am planning on building up the head with some stage 2 cams, valve springs, retainers, flat valves, lma's, ITR intake manifold + throttle body and power fc. I have also been contemplating buying an ITR lower block and putting this built head on it. That's if I can find one for a good price.

My goal is alot more midrange torque and about 120kwatw.

Any thoughts guys?

Be sure the person putting it together knows what they're doing.

If they can't build it, only a fool would have them tune it?
But if they can't tune it, is it wise to have them build it?

This lil mantra aught to help you narrow the feild... ;)

[ek004]

as always adrian very informative...

just some questions regarding the exhaust system,

is there a particular exhaust manifold or size of the cat back system we should be using in regards to the above mentioned mods?

obviously TODA is our best bet with the header are there any other headers on the market that you might recommend? , also the exhaust sizing thereafter?

also in regards to tuning.. just take it to adrian well worth it,
a DYNO tune by a particular workshop compared to Adrian's road tune on my car is best described as night and day!

ps. If I was interstate I would travel to have adrian tune my car luckily I live in the same state.


Cheers
Dave

[**Ghost**]

the thing that depresses me about htis thread (besides from some1 with qualified expertise telling me i've chosen wrong parts...ahhaha)... is the difference between the "High Budget" and Medium Budget specs.... ffs... almost 2000-3000 bucks spent rightttt there in between the 2 stages i estimate....for 10kw at wheels...... god damn...

[TODA AU]

just some questions regarding the exhaust system,

is there a particular exhaust manifold or size of the cat back system we should be using in regards to the above mentioned mods?

obviously TODA is our best bet with the header are there any other headers on the market that you might recommend? , also the exhaust sizing thereafter?


G'day Dave,

Cheers for the vote of confidence & sorry about the delay replying.

Ok, re headers.
As long as you remember you get what you pay for.
For those tight budget, the X-Force headers offer reasonable bang for bucks & in my mind are arguably the best of the cheapies, both in performance & looks.
There is no question that they don't perform nearly as well as the TODA header or a number of other Japanese headers for that matter.
What makes them the best of a bad bunch is their low cost & bling looks.
Appart from lower power output @ WOT accross the rev range, the other significant difference is part throttle power.
This is something cheap headers still fall down on & why IMO saving up to purchase the best headers available still makes sense over buying something right now.

For a near stock B16A use the 4~2~1 header + 2 1/4 cat back.

On cars with programable ECU's & ITR cams as a minimum, the X-Force 4~1s offer the best peak power, though torque suffers in the low end, the power from 5000 to 8500rpm is not bad.
(Certainly better than AUDM ITR headers & a variety of other nasty & cheap headers)
In fact, if you need a bench mark, they're as good, if not a poofteenth better than JDM ITR 4~1s.
Further, they also suffer in the 1500~4000rpm range with noticably lower torque when compared to your high end products.
Further, this torque loss in not recoverable on the dyno through tuning.
Regarding exhaust size, 2 1/4 (57mm) inch mandrel bent is enough for most mild B16As.
Once cams & compression come into it, 2 1/2 inch (63.5mm) mandrel bent offers sharper topend performance.
Of note, most Japanese systems, such as Mugen are 60mm.

Regarding mufflers,
I can strongly reccomend the X-Force twin loop mufflers for keeping the car quite & still delivering strong performance.
(No resonance with a soft, deep sporty note - resonator required)

[TODA AU]

the thing that depresses me about htis thread (besides from some1 with qualified expertise telling me i've chosen wrong parts...ahhaha)... is the difference between the "High Budget" and Medium Budget specs.... ffs... almost 2000-3000 bucks spent rightttt there in between the 2 stages i estimate....for 10kw at wheels...... god damn...

Regarding the escalating costs.
Unfortunatly there is a deminishing return on investment with all cars when it comes to getting more power.
This is even more apparent when following the NA route which these bang for bucks posts address.
FWIW, as an example.
The 1st say 15kw come relativly cheaply,
then each 1kw after that costs more & more until say the last 1kw, costs as much as the 1st 30...
The further you go the more expensive things become & the more critical the combination becomes.

For the record, IMO modifying cars is a complete waste of money & a terrible sickness of the mind.
Further, It is a sickness I am proud to say I have been infected with for over 15 years.
In that, I'm happy share my experience with what does & does not work.
Which is one of the reasons I originally posted the bang for bucks thread for the DC2R.
This thread covering Civics & CRXs is a follow on from that.
If in writing this, I can help guide you guys through the minefield;
(so to speak) & make some sensible desisions modifying your cars, then this thread has been a success.
I figure, if you're going to do something silly, you might as well do it right.
Cheers

Adrian

[**Ghost**]

thanks Toda, i figured as much : )

I really do like NA tuning but i the money isnt that "small" to me to the point where i woudl spend 500 bucks on 1kw after I/h/E...

hmmm i know it might sound funni but i still stand by the ARC product... i do admit it doesnt LOOK good in teh engine bay all exposed and all, but since i've ducted cold air (after removing the resonator) its actually quite good : )

as for the AUDM ITR headers i did feel a significant gain once i got em... i might change em over to DC sport or Xforce 4-2-1 afterwards but right now not fussed...

so wot u reckon of getting a VAFC1 to tune the i/h/e now? I'm never going to get cams btw and hondata is too expensive... i can get a VAFC1 for like $200, install it myself, then pay another $250 for dyno tuning...reckon its worth the 450?

[TODA AU]

thanks Toda, i figured as much : )

hmmm i know it might sound funni but i still stand by the ARC product... i do admit it doesnt LOOK good in teh engine bay all exposed and all, but since i've ducted cold air (after removing the resonator) its actually quite good : )

so wot u reckon of getting a VAFC1 to tune the i/h/e now? I'm never going to get cams btw and hondata is too expensive... i can get a VAFC1 for like $200, install it myself, then pay another $250 for dyno tuning...reckon its worth the 450?

Fair comment...
Having already purchased it, it's in your best interest (financially) to make it work.
The VAFC can squeaze more out of your set up.
$200 will more than cover that no problem at pretty much anywhere...
Alternativly, The same $400 spent will also get you a set of X-Force headers...

[raff]

so TODA AU...you reccomend xforce 4-2-1s over jdm itr 4-1s?or did i miss read?

[TYPE-ONE]

thanks for the info..

[**Ghost**]

yeh thanks for the info man... hahaha i promise i';ll support u back when i can afford the premium goods u sell : )

[TODA AU]

so TODA AU...you reccomend xforce 4-2-1s over jdm itr 4-1s?or did i miss read?

On a near stock B16A, yes...
If it's fairly modified...
Then I said the X-Force 4~1's are as good if not a poofteenth (a small amount) better than the JDM 4~1's.
That was to give an idea of performance. They're not top shelf, but for someone who simply must do something right now and can't wait to save up for something better. They'll do alright.
That said,
If the budget is so tight that these lesser parts come into play...
You end up missing the whole point of the thread...
Honda’s are pretty fussy…
The actual parts combination is everything…
It must be put together exactly right…
Again, I can’t stress enough how important this is.


yeh thanks for the info man... hahaha i promise i';ll support u back when i can afford the premium goods u sell : )

LOL... No worries...

[SPEEDCORE]

ps. If I was interstate I would travel to have adrian tune my car luckily I live in the same state.

Or if Adrian doesn't mind travelling interstate himself.... *testing waters* ;)

[**Ghost**]

so y are XFORCE 4-2-1 better than JDM 4-1 for only mildly modded cars? i never understood that ?

[CONAN]

they are better, isnt that all u need to know
*stratches his head*

[steve]

i dont want this to start a brand bashing thread but...
i am only plannin on doing the i(injen)/h(?)/e(vision) mods coupled with a vafc2 to my b16a2,
so my question is, is it worth justifying the $800+ extra to get the toda 4-2-1 header compared to a x-force 4-2-1? i was preparing to purchase the toda header however if the power difference is not substantial, ie 7~10kw across the majority of the rev range, is there much point?
I know alot comes down to tuning but as a general rule of thumb how much extra kw do these toda headers make?

[pornstar]

steve, my personal experience with toda headers is that they are well worth their money, it feels like the car has more torque throughtout the rev ranges

[ek004]

i dont want this to start a brand bashing thread but...
i am only plannin on doing the i(injen)/h(?)/e(vision) mods coupled with a vafc2 to my b16a2,
so my question is, is it worth justifying the $800+ extra to get the toda 4-2-1 header compared to a x-force 4-2-1? i was preparing to purchase the toda header however if the power difference is not substantial, ie 7~10kw across the majority of the rev range, is there much point?
I know alot comes down to tuning but as a general rule of thumb how much extra kw do these toda headers make?

Toda is a better header, if you have been doing some forum surfing the dyno charts have proven this, as well as the many owners that have this product.

However whether you can justify its purchase depends on you. If you would like to take your power mods to the next step, then im sure many experienced people will recommend that you get the better header to begin with, but if your happy to have the simple i/h/e, then maybe settle for what you think is better for the money spent. Its just a matter of working out whats best for you, if you get toda now and get cams later, it will save you buying the better header at a later date to make the most of out of the cams etc etc etc

[raff]

TODA AU in terms of I/H/E is a SIMOTA CAI/ DC SPORT 4-1 CERAMIC/ 2.25" MANDREL BENT cat back with high flow cat substantial in terms of those parts? and would you recommend using a VAFC2 along with a dyno tune? or not worth it?

cheers
-RaF-

[TODA AU]

TODA AU in terms of I/H/E is a SIMOTA CAI/ DC SPORT 4-1 CERAMIC/ 2.25" MANDREL BENT cat back with high flow cat substantial in terms of those parts? and would you recommend using a VAFC2 along with a dyno tune? or not worth it?

cheers
-RaF-

I'm not familiar with the "Simota CAI" so I can't really comment on it...
(Is it the "Whale penis" intake ? - I don't think much of them)
DC sport 4~1's & the 2.25 are ok.
As for being substantial,
Basiclly, the above parts are not top shelf & won't deliver the same results as top shelf parts.
The VAFC & VAFC2 is not something I reccomend,
Though I happly tune them if that's all the guy's got, you should be aware that you can only squeaze a bit more out using these things.
That is, it's not ideal. A programable, stand alone ECU is far, far better.

[saxman]

That is, it's not ideal. A programable, stand alone ECU is far, far better.
and with the freeware ecu set ups available these days, generally cheaper than a vafc... at least out here

[raff]

TODA AU the simota intake simply says TWISTER CAI....dunno wat the 'whale penis' is

what ecu do you recommend?

[TODA AU]

TODA AU the simota intake simply says TWISTER CAI....dunno wat the 'whale penis' is

what ecu do you recommend?

http://www.simota.com.au/HTML/Final%20Images/SIM-H003F-RE%20super%20inlet%20filter%20kit.jpg
Whale penis... lol

ECUs
MOTEC - AUTRONIC - HONDATA - APEXI PFC

[raff]

thanx for the info toda au....with regards to the intake its not the whale penis its this CAI

http://www.simota.com.au/HTML/Final%20Images/SIM-CA3%20cold%20air%20ind%20system.jpg

[revNhevN]

ECUs
MOTEC - AUTRONIC - HONDATA - APEXI PFC

Is this in order of preference.?

[TODA AU]

http://www.simota.com.au/HTML/Final%20Images/SIM-CA3%20cold%20air%20ind%20system.jpg

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
No worries...
This works quite well... :)

[Paul1985]

lol at whale penis, its an ugly looking intake IMO, the whale penis that is..

[TODA AU]

Is this in order of preference.?

Pretty much... (But not totally)
All are lap-top programabe & can deliver exellent results. (Tuner dependant)
So the preference is IMO...
Though I personally love MOTEC software & the way their ECU's work... (Think)
The AUTRONIC PnP ECU's are just awsome.
& I have to admit, I'm starting to love this ECU also.
One thing is for certain, this is a particularly underrated ECU. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

FWIW, The Autronic, Hondata & FC are all basiclly plug & play.
The MOTEC needs to be wired in. (A plug in loom isn't difficult)

The FC is great value, so long as it's tuned on a laptop.
If not, you don't get the most out of it.

Back to bang for bucks...
The S100 offers arguably the best value for money on the market.
Though it may not be the ultimate ECU, it does everthing well & won't break the bank.

[MoDCoN]

First post, wow....

You said the Simota CAI was bad, and then when he posted the pic of the 'high performance' one you said that was good... Is there a whole lot of difference???

[ONV73C]

Pretty much... (But not totally)
All are lap-top programabe & can deliver exellent results. (Tuner dependant)
So the preference is IMO...
Though I personally love MOTEC software & the way their ECU's work... (Think)
The AUTRONIC PnP ECU's are just awsome.
& I have to admit, I'm starting to love this ECU also.
One thing is for certain, this is a particularly underrated ECU. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

FWIW, The Autronic, Hondata & FC are all basiclly plug & play.
The MOTEC needs to be wired in. (A plug in loom isn't difficult)

The FC is great value, so long as it's tuned on a laptop.
If not, you don't get the most out of it.

Back to bang for bucks...
The S100 offers arguably the best value for money on the market.
Though it may not be the ultimate ECU, it does everthing well & won't break the bank.

TODA_AU - ECU is gonna be my next (and last last engine mod) lol (apart from lightnd fly wheel) :D

i was gonna go Apexi PFC... hwever i didn't think hondata was compatable with b16a?

i've got i/h/e, ctr cam, cusco adj cam gears, HD clutch. Which of those 2 ecu's do u recommend for my setup?

[TODA AU]

First post, wow....

You said the Simota CAI was bad, and then when he posted the pic of the 'high performance' one you said that was good... Is there a whole lot of difference???
http://www.simota.com.au/HTML/Final%20Images/SIM-H003F-RE%20super%20inlet%20filter%20kit.jpg
The above intake really is no better than any other short ram intake.
& IMO is nothing more than junk.

The CAI, is similar to other good performing CAI's
http://www.simota.com.au/HTML/Final%20Images/SIM-CA3%20cold%20air%20ind%20system.jpg
The gain in a CAI is not just the cold air.
The length & diameter of the inlet is important.

[TODA AU]

TODA_AU - ECU is gonna be my next (and last last engine mod) lol (apart from lightnd fly wheel) :D

i was gonna go Apexi PFC... hwever i didn't think hondata was compatable with b16a?

i've got i/h/e, ctr cam, cusco adj cam gears, HD clutch. Which of those 2 ecu's do u recommend for my setup?

With a car as old as yours, (DA Integra) you'll need to stuff around a bit either way.
You'll need to upgrade the OBD0 to OBD1 for hondata & OBDII for FC

[ONV73C]

With a car as old as yours, (DA Integra) you'll need to stuff around a bit either way.
You'll need to upgrade the OBD0 to OBD1 for hondata & OBDII for FC


so that means, new ecu, new dizzie, new harness etc etc ?? :mad:

is there any better solution?

settling for vafc wont really be that ideal...

[Farkis]

gday im in the process or aquiring a JDM b18c (VTIR) half cut, and i was looking at getting a JDM b18c5 ITR LSD gearbox,what do you think of the match and what mods would you recommend first

Cheers

[TODA AU]

so that means, new ecu, new dizzie, new harness etc etc ??:mad:
is there any better solution?
settling for vafc wont really be that ideal...
Sorry about the delay replying, I missed this one...
To use any ecu there will be wiring issues that'll need to be sorted or see if you can find a real early Hondata, can't even remember what it's called. (PM James, he'd know for sure)
It comes down to dollars, what you can save by doing it yourself, what you are willing to spend on this car & where you draw the line.

Re a VAFC, it'll work to a point.
But like any piggy back ECU, interceptor or the like,
It cannot affect rpm limit or have absolute control of ignition & fuel.
Honestly, the VAFC is pretty much as good as any of these cheap engin management solotions made localy.
It's when you alter the engine internal they fall down... Cams, compression etc... That said, It can still be made to work well on mild build-ups but it's not ideal & there are better alternatives - at a price.

[TODA AU]

gday im in the process or aquiring a JDM b18c (VTIR) half cut, and i was looking at getting a JDM b18c5 ITR LSD gearbox,what do you think of the match and what mods would you recommend first

Cheers
Good combination,
VtiR engine is an exellent base for making a quick little car.
Gearbox is clearly a good choice.
See 1st post for order of modification. (Do flywheel & clutch 1st when the engine is out of the car)
Resist the urge to fit a B16A head unless you intent to change the pistons also.
VtiR engine uses flat top pistons & will lose performance with reduced compression. Low port helps a little but not enough to recover lost compresion.

[Newcivic]

Thankks!

[pgclee]

Actually, outta curiousity, adrian, how many Honda have you done before? and can you define the price of low, medium, high budget?
and why izit B20 not reliable?

i'm just interested to know...if i offended you in anyway here, sorry...

thanx..

[**Ghost**]

adrian right?

in this post u recommended (for cheapos/povos/students anonymous :P) xforce headers yet in another somewhere the DC5Rs ones were condemned to be shite.

Do Xforce just make better b16 headers nad crappy k20a ones? or is it something else?

cheeers

[del501]

TODA_AU,

I just got my delsol with b16a2 my plans for i/h/e are Injen CAI, 5 zigen headers, and mugen catback zorst. what do you think of that setup?? i would like to purchase a cheaper zorst system could you list me some brand that would give around the same amount of power but cheaper cause damn $1300 for mugen zorst is damn expensive. IF I HAD MONEY I GO ALL OUT TODA :D

[Dylanamus]

Adrian: you mentioned ATS lower final drives, but they don't provide one for the Y1 cable transmission. They only support hydro transmissions. Which brings me to ask, would converting to an S80 transmission say from a b18c5 be y viable option?
I had a look around for ITR trannies but didn't find anything, so I don't really know how much they cost or whether or not there are any issues with the conversion. My apologies if this is a bit of a noob question...

[ekslut]

Adrian: you mentioned ATS lower final drives, but they don't provide one for the Y1 cable transmission. They only support hydro transmissions. Which brings me to ask, would converting to an S80 transmission say from a b18c5 be y viable option?
I had a look around for ITR trannies but didn't find anything, so I don't really know how much they cost or whether or not there are any issues with the conversion. My apologies if this is a bit of a noob question...

Yes, you can convert from cable transmission - hydro. I have done this using the Hasport conversion kit and I am running a CTR gearbox.