converting kw's to kw's at the wheels

[franki]

hey people. i know my car has 147kw as its a dc5r. but im curious to know what is the kw's at the wheels on a stock dc5r. :honda:

[Q_ball]

prob bout 100-110atw

[Mugen boy]

100-110 if your lucky you lose a fare bit through the drivetrain

[[stealth]]

since its a dc5r... 105-110 easily...

[CJL]

100-110

[IRI]

Isn't drivetrain loss roughly 30%???
Usually if you subtract 30% from stated kw figure you get pretty close to atw kw's.

[DMT]

my lude lude has 147kw at the fly and on the dyno it put out 114.7kw at the wheels which is a 22% loss in power from engine to wheels which is reasonable.

even if the dyno was a bit optimistic id say at least 110kw @ the wheels :thumbsup:

[davidd]

Different Dyno's read differently, but you'd be looking at between 102 - 116 (102 being the lowest i've seen, same dyno same day I saw another stocker pull 109, 116 is the highest I've seen pull at another dyno)

Stock loss is too hard to calculate, and is different for every vehicle....

Dave

[davidd]

My dc5r pulled 107, with a k&n drop in, changed to an sri and pulled 120 on a different dyno, now I know that there is no way an intake can make that much difference, so this is just here to illustrate the point that each dyno is different

[Mugen boy]

basicaly every motor is different, wether asembled by the same person , parts differ in weight ect, and as long as they are within a certain range honda uses them , so some people end up with freak motors they make 10-15kw more than that of a engine that runs to spec, it all about luck of the draw buddy , but as i said above 100-110 kw would be you best bet

[thanh]

i say 100kws atw... cos a stock dc2r is 90kws atw

[Q_ball]

...a stock dc2r is 90kws atw

who told u that?
vtir's comes round about 90 - the gsi a bit under once more.

[IRI]

Here are some actual dyno figures perforemed on the same dyno same day... Not all are stock though....

DC2 vtir 92.5
DC2R 110
DC5R 109.8
RX8 Rotary 125
DC2R 102.2
DC5R 119 (4th gear run at owners request 122.1)
DC5R 100.7
200SX Sr20 174
EK4 89.5 (so close to the 90!)
DC5R 122
DC2R 106.7 (for a stock dc2, this car is awesome!)
DC5R 111.7
EM1 124.5
DC2R 94.7
DC2R 109.2

[thanh]

[QUOTE=q_ball]who told u that?
vtir's comes round about 90 - the gsi a bit under once more.[/QUOTE

I dyno my stock dc2r and i got the figure

[Q_ball]

I dyno my stock dc2r and i got the figure

mustve been underperforming at some rate dude...
majority of dc2r owners that ive spoken to have produced 100+ all the time
tho i do understand that its not always the case

[thanh]

different dyno different output

[|N|]

any result for a d16y4???

[GYPO2C]

dont hold me to this but i remember reading ages ago that the loss in FWD is about 20%, the loss in RWD is about 30% and the loss in 4WD was a little more again. Same deal though....every car is different but that is roughly the loss.

[tegstar83]

basicaly every motor is different, wether asembled by the same person , parts differ in weight ect, and as long as they are within a certain range honda uses them , so some people end up with freak motors they make 10-15kw more than that of a engine that runs to spec, it all about luck of the draw buddy , but as i said above 100-110 kw would be you best bet

That is such BULLSHIT!!!!! Honda does not do such crude workmanship esp on R's the parts are all balanced and precission made, If Honda had such crap suppliers with such inconsitensies they would get rid of them and get someone else to make the parts. Anyway where do get such crap from?? :confused:

[Q_ball]

im tellin yous...
a stock dc2r will run about 100-110kw atw - say 105 jst to be average!!
it should always run that unless of course uve done a couple small mods ere and there
remember, doin mods and not gettin it tuned/done rite can actualy giv you a loss of power!

[IRI]

That is such BULLSHIT!!!!! Honda does not do such crude workmanship esp on R's the parts are all balanced and precission made, If Honda had such crap suppliers with such inconsitensies they would get rid of them and get someone else to make the parts. Anyway where do get such crap from?? :confused:



"DC2R 106.7
DC2R 94.7"

ABove is figures for two stock type r's which proves Mugen Boy's theory. Honda is not some super duper invinsible company where the employees have no emotions and everything is done 100% perfectly with no mistakes....

[Q_ball]

"DC2R 106.7
DC2R 94.7"


agree with u 100% there IRI
well the 1st one sounds bout rite...
dun kno wat the 2nd one was runnin...owner has been farked ova IMO
mustve been a seriously de-tuned jap spec that they sent over here lol
majority that ive come across have always been in the 100-110 bracket

[racinghonda]

Also the wheels that you have on also has a bearing on the dyno figure. If you have big heavy 18" wheels you're going to "lose" up to 5-6kW. Remember that there is extra weight the engine has to spin up and that weight is on the outside of the wheel circumference since its bigger.

[tegstar83]

go watch best motoring vol 1 type R legend and go and see the two R's wich are two years a part run exact quater times and Honda is company where they....... U know what there japs there company runs on precision and efficiency go look at how a honda is put together and then go and look at some other mob then talk

[IRI]

I'm not saying they're not good of course they are... But nothing is done 100% to perfection 100% of the time. +-5kw means jack shit in 1/4mile anyway so of course theyr're times will be same/similar...

FYI Lexus are in Guiness book of records for least manufacturing faults in their production line... ANd that's still 107 faults per 100 cars....

[PLYBOY]

i got my VTI-R dyno'd the other day, and i was stoked with the figures..

120KW's atw.. with 17's.. all i have is H22A injectors, 98' spec 4>1's and full exhaust and intake.. that was tuned with a VAFC ( these are the shiz ) i recommend them to anyone.. have sheets to prove it too!!

[MrThanh]

vafc doesnt do much honestly. you cant increase power substantially just by adjusting AFR. you will need to be able to advance ignition timing to see any real benefits.

you guys need to get your heads out of the ditch because the cars arent making that much power. where are you finding these happy dynos? or are you telling the dyno operator to do the power run in 1st gear?

stock DC2Rs get between 90-100kws bone stock. EVERY car is DIFFERENT (that's right tegstar83) even if they rolled off the production line at around about the same time... the way someone drives a car determines which fuel maps the ecu takes since it is always learning etc so it does affect power. no 2 cars will be the same. close, maybe.. but definitely not the same.

at the end of the day, dyno numbers are just that... numbers. something you can use to show off to your friends and brag about. doesnt mean shit on the track, strip or road.

[j0nbubz]

i know base dc5 produces squat compared to dc5r, but wondering what range of kw atw the base would lie in ??

[MrThanh]

i believe the base is around about 75fwkw stock

[j0nbubz]

wow what a disapointment 30 kw difference hehe cool ^.^

[PLYBOY]

i got an 8KW gain at the wheels using the VAFC..

[Fro-Daddy]

i heardin a fwd car that kw at the fly is approx hp at the wheels...so 147kw at the fly - 147hp at the wheels, which = about 109 at the wheels...

[IRI]

vafc doesnt do much honestly. you cant increase power substantially just by adjusting AFR. you will need to be able to advance ignition timing to see any real benefits.

you guys need to get your heads out of the ditch because the cars arent making that much power. where are you finding these happy dynos? or are you telling the dyno operator to do the power run in 1st gear?

stock DC2Rs get between 90-100kws bone stock. EVERY car is DIFFERENT (that's right tegstar83) even if they rolled off the production line at around about the same time... the way someone drives a car determines which fuel maps the ecu takes since it is always learning etc so it does affect power. no 2 cars will be the same. close, maybe.. but definitely not the same.

at the end of the day, dyno numbers are just that... numbers. something you can use to show off to your friends and brag about. doesnt mean shit on the track, strip or road.

Amen:wave:

[Javed]

120 kw atw's in a vtir? Get farkin real!

[MrThanh]

i got an 8KW gain at the wheels using the VAFC..

i gained 6-7kw at most just before vtec crossover when i got mine tuned.. throughout the rest of the rev range it was less. so what? didnt feel any quicker, power delivery was *slightly* more smooth.. thats about it.

seems like a lot of you guys *hear* a lot.. how about backing up what you say with some dyno plots? :rolleyes:

[BF]

vafc doesnt do much honestly. you cant increase power substantially just by adjusting AFR. you will need to be able to advance ignition timing to see any real benefits.

you guys need to get your heads out of the ditch because the cars arent making that much power. where are you finding these happy dynos? or are you telling the dyno operator to do the power run in 1st gear?

stock DC2Rs get between 90-100kws bone stock. EVERY car is DIFFERENT (that's right tegstar83) even if they rolled off the production line at around about the same time... the way someone drives a car determines which fuel maps the ecu takes since it is always learning etc so it does affect power. no 2 cars will be the same. close, maybe.. but definitely not the same.

at the end of the day, dyno numbers are just that... numbers. something you can use to show off to your friends and brag about. doesnt mean shit on the track, strip or road.

Hit the nail on the head!!!

[PLYBOY]

120 kw atw's in a vtir? Get farkin real!


Would you like Dyno Sheets? Iahve the before and after sheets!!

Can anyone here host it for me

[Q_ball]

that cant have been a stock vtir...

[PLYBOY]

i never said it was stock.. if you look back.. i said it had 98' spec 4>1's, full 2 1/4 exhaust, intake, pod.. and tuned with the VAFC.. i was expecting 110 at least, but i was stoked when it got 112kw before tuning, then after a bit of playing with the fuel etc.. i got 120KW atw..

[**Ghost**]

that must be one generous dyno

[PLYBOY]

that must be one generous dyno

dude.. i thought that was about the average dyno figure anyway... that was with 17's on a roller dyno.. no of this hub dyno shiit

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/plyboy/dyno1.jpg

thats where my dyno plot is.. Proof dude

[BF]

No one doubts that your dyno plot says 120kw atw, what they are saying is it was a generous dyno... =)

But come on guys, the figures are not important... There are more important things to look for in a power curve - i.e. attaining the most linear curve you can...

[PLYBOY]

No one doubts that your dyno plot says 120kw atw, what they are saying is it was a generous dyno... =)

But come on guys, the figures are not important... There are more important things to look for in a power curve - i.e. attaining the most linear curve you can...

Beyond Motorworks is known for not having a generous dyno figure.. but yeh, you can see my orignal curve was shit.. lost power at Vtec, then shooting up 20kw's within about 300rpm.. after the tune it feel so much smoother to drive, not noticably faster though.. i still think the vafc was a mint buy.. hey i only paid 250 for it..

[BF]

Beyond Motorworks is known for not having a generous dyno figure.. but yeh, you can see my orignal curve was shit.. lost power at Vtec, then shooting up 20kw's within about 300rpm.. after the tune it feel so much smoother to drive, not noticably faster though.. i still think the vafc was a mint buy.. hey i only paid 250 for it..

=)

I can't actually see the plot you posted... says I dont have access???

=/

[KB]

Out of interest My D16y8 made 85Kw @ Wheels. Modifications I/H/E. That was with 91Ron ULP and in 4th Gear too.

Now It's just had a full service and I run 98Ron ULP. Goes Even Harder. :D

[smudge]

A guy that I know has been building race engines since the 70’s. His opinion is that “at the wheels” dyno figures are useless for comparing how good/bad an engine is as there are too many variables that affect the final figure. If you want to compare engines use engine dyno’s not roller dyno’s.

(I think that I was the stock DC2R that pulled 102kw at the wheels – I was just curious to see what I would get)