BAR-Honda Guilty!!

[mikes94]

The Court of Appeal has found BAR-Honda guilty of running an underweight car at the San Marino GP.

They have been stripped of their San Marino results and banned for two races. A further 6 month ban has been suspended for 1 year.

Shame has been bought upon the Honda name :thumbdwn:
I dont know what to think at this stage... :(

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

Fire those mechanics responsible, and start a new motorsport team, BAR-OzHonda

[bigteethygrin]

that really sucks!.. they've been flirting with the limits of the rule book on so many occasions and this time someone really fukt up hey. I wonder if they are allowed to do testing and developement during their suspension period?

[Javed]

Holy ****in shit. Are you serious?! ARGHHHHH

[nEUROtic]

I dont think the verdict is harsh considering

a) what they were facing (Total Ban - 1 million euro fine)
b) They WERE cheating
c) Fuel is not to be used as ballast

So yeah its unfortunate but not undeserved.

[^^v]

all i can say is that the damage is done...
the Honda name has been tarnished by these events :thumbdwn:
very dissapointing...



BAR lose Imola points and handed two-race ban
ICA find BAR Honda guilty of cheating
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BAR Honda will now miss the Spanish and
Monaco Grand Prix
BAR Honda were today banned from competing in the next two Grand Prix after being found guilty of cheating at last month's race in San Marino.

The verdict was handed out by motor racing's governing body the FIA after its International Court of Appeal ruled that the car Button drove to finish third at Imola was underweight.

In addition to being excluded from the next two races BAR have retrospectively been thrown out of the San Marino race meaning the ten points they gained there will be wiped off the record books.

In addition, they have also been handed a six month suspension suspended for one year should they be found guilty of breaking F1 rules a second time.

BAR, who vigorously deny they used an illegal fuel system to gain an advantage on their grid rivals, were facing the risk of being thrown out of this season's championship altogether - the punishment demanded by the FIA.

E.A.
Source AFP



source f1live.com

[panda[cRx]]

i think would be better to cop the 6 month suspension on the chin now and start fresh next season

or is the 6 months only if they f_ck up and get caught again?

[^^v]

oh well... i guess things could be wrose... 2 race ban n loss of points is better than being throw out of the comp imo...
i hope this doesnt hinder the re entry of a 100% Honda owned factory team
fkn BAR/BAT .. i blame them for this! lolz

[LUD02C]

Poor Honda, BAR controls all this but Honda does look over it.
The 2 ex-employees who gave the "tip-off" will be "sorted out" i'm guessing.

[Javed]

Im seriously gutted right now. And the suspended sentence is if bar **** up again. I think it is because bar are always lookin to exploit the rules. Poor farking honda, they are gonna get a bad wrap from this. I hope Nick Fry's appeal is successful. Doubt it tho :(

[^^v]

*shattered*
man u gotta feel for the drivers...
n i wonder how pissed off Jenson is.. he must be fumeing.. n poor Taku :o



Mosley feels BAR Honda's sentence is lenient
The team will restart season on May 29
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Max Mosley's first comments
after the BAR Honda verdict

FIA president Max Mosley said he felt the sentence against BAR Honda meted out by the four-judge panel at the FIA's Paris headquarters had been lenient.

"The facts in this case are very clear," Mosley told the BBC. "The team was asked to pump the fuel out of their car. They left 15 litres in the tank and told us it was empty. Under the circumstances, we feel they have been treated rather leniently."

But in a statement the FIA's appeal court said that it was not possible on the evidence they had heard to prove that BAR had deliberately cheated.

"Their actions...show at the least a highly regrettable negligence and lack of transparency," the statement said.

Imola track scrutineers intitially found Button's BAR had conformed with the legal minimum weight limit when they inspected it. When the car was weighed immediately after the race it was found to be above the weight limit but it was below the limit when the fuel tank was drained.


FIA scrutineers at the track accepted BAR's explanation but the FIA, suspecting the car was loaded with petrol as ballast, put the case before the its International Court of Appeal.

And in its ruling the court declared: "The inspection revealed that on top of the 160 grams of fuel that was emptied, 8.92kg of fuel still remained in a special copmartment within the fuel tank and a further 2.46kg remained in the bottom of the fuel tank.

"These quantities remained in the vehicle after the BAR Honda team had confirmed "That's it" when asked if the draining process was completed."

The ruling means that BAR will restart the season in Germany on May 29 without a point.

Button's first podium finish of 2005 now goes to McLaren driver Alexander Wurz. The fifth-place gained by Button's Japanese teammate Takuma Sato has also been cancelled, allowing Canadian Jacques Villeneuve to claim fourth for Sauber, with Italian Jarno Trulli moving up to fifth for Toyota. Williams duo Nick Heidfeld, of Germany, and Mark Webber, of Australia, are now credited with sixth and seventh while Italian Vitantonio Liuzzi is now credited with scoring a point for eighth place on his debut with Red Bull Racing.

Source AFP

[^^v]

this is a pretty fkn long read... n most of it is gibbrish to me..
but for the ppl that wanna know the exact details concering the matter...



ICA's complete verdict in BAR Honda case
All the details from the court's decision
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The ICA has handed out its verdict

The International Court of Appeal (ICA) handed out its verdict today in the case against BAR Honda. Here is the complete information on the verdict, as published by the FIA:

Appeal submitted by the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile, on the grounds of Article 185 of the International Sporting Code

CASE

Decision n° 49 taken by the Stewards of the Meeting concerning car n° 3, competitor Lucky Strike BAR Honda (driver Jenson Button), after the San Marino Grand Prix on 24 April 2005 counting towards the 2005 FIA Formula One World Championship

Hearing of Wednesday 4 May 2005 in Paris

The FIA INTERNATIONAL COURT OF APPEAL, composed of Mr Xavier CONESA (Spain), elected President, Mr Erich Sedelmayer (Austria), Mr Pierre Tourigny (Canada) and Mr Vassilis KOUSSIS (Greece),

Meeting in Paris on Wednesday 4 May 2005, at the headquarters of the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile, 8 place de la Concorde, 75008 Paris,

Ruling on the appeal brought by the FIA against decision n° 49 taken by the Stewards of the Meeting of the San Marino Grand Prix on 24 April 2005, having refused to take any action against the competitor Lucky Strike BAR Honda who they considered was not in breach of the FIA Regulations as regards the weight of the car,


Having heard:

For the FIA, appellant, represented by Mr Pierre de CONINCK, Secretary General of the Sport Division, assisted by Mr Sébastien BERNARD, Head of Legal Affairs, and Mr Charlie WHITING, Head of the Technical Department,

For the Respondent, the Motor Sports Association (MSA), represented by Mr Terry Lankshear, Secretary General, acting both for the MSA and for the competitor Lucky Strike BAR Honda, assisted by Mr David PANNICK QC, Lawyer at the London Bar, Mr Simon TAYLOR, Solicitor in London, and Ms Caroline McGRORY, Lawyer,

For the knowledgeable parties, Mr Geoff WILLIS, Technical Director, Lucky Strike BAR Honda, Mr Craig WILSON, Chief Engineer, Lucky Strike BAR Honda, Mr Nick FRY, Chief Executive Officer (Lucky Strike BAR Honda), Mr Ron MEADOWS, Race Team Manager (Lucky Strike BAR Honda), Mr Alistair GIBSON, Chief Mechanic (Lucky Strike BAR Honda), Mr Darren BEACROFT, N°1 Mechanic (Lucky Strike BAR Honda), Mr Chris FRY, Team Truck Driver (Lucky Strike BAR Honda), Mr Yasuhiro WADA, President Honda Racing Development, Mr Otmar SZAFNAUER, Vice- President Honda Racing Development, Mr Nick BROOKES, Director British American Tobacco, Mr Jo BAUER, FIA Formula One Technical Delegate, Mr Kris de GROOT, FIA Formula One Technical Team, and Mr Alan FULLER, FIA Formula One Technical Team,

Having acknowledged that the procedure was in order and the appeal admissible, the rights of each of the parties having been duly examined, both in the proceedings which preceded the hearing and during the hearing itself, the appellant, the competitor and the knowledgeable parties having been duly heard and having provided all the detailed explanations requested from them during the hearing and having received answer, with the help of a simultaneous translation system which did not provoke the slightest criticism on the part of the competitors,


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Nick Fry during yesterday's meeting
at the FIA headquarters

WHEREAS the appellant the FIA has requested the International Court of Appeal to cancel the decision taken by the Stewards because it did not respect the technical and sporting regulations of Formula One as well as the rules of the International Sporting Code,

WHEREAS for its part the defendant argued that it conformed to all the relevant rules above,

WHEREAS Article 1.9 of the same Technical Regulations stipulates that the weight of the car “is the weight of the car with the driver wearing his complete racing apparel, at all times during the event”, and must not be related with the weight of the car in ‘running order’ as defined in article 1.10.

WHEREAS with regard to the weight of the car, Article 4.1. of the Technical Regulations, without mentioning the fuel, requires that at all times during the event, whether or not the driver is weighed separately, the weight must not be less than 600 kg,

WHEREAS in this regard, the requirements of these regulations are supported by Art 77-a-4 and 77-b of the Sporting Regulations of Formula One which anticipate that the car must be weighed with the driver at the time of the practice, and that after the race every car crossing the line shall be weighed with the weight of its driver added, with paragraph c of the same article specifying that if the weight of the car is less than the minimum weight required by Article 4.1. of the Technical Regulations, the car will be excluded from the event, save where the deficiency in weight results from the accidental loss of a component of the car,

WHEREAS, taking into account these requirements, the car, at all times of the event, must weigh with the driver a minimum of 600 kg and that Lucky Strike BAR Honda tried to argue that the car must be weighed with the remaining fuel in the tank after the race, which is not supported by any rules of the Code and Regulations, and leaves the FIA as well the competitors in a regrettable state of uncertainty,

WHEREAS the only interpretation possible which can give any guarantee in this regard should be, as is contained in Article 4.1., that the weight of the car with its fuel tank completely empty at the end of the race, must weigh at least 600 kg, and this interpretation flows from Articles 1.9, 4.1, 77-a, 77-b and 77-c of the Sporting and Technical Regulations above, WHEREAS the defendant Lucky Strike BAR Honda was unable to satisfy the requirements of Article 2.6, which states that “It is the duty of each Competitor to satisfy the FIA technical delegate and the Stewards of the Meeting that his automobile complies with these regulations in their entirety at all times during an Event”.

WHEREAS, the presentation of the team of fuel consumption data cannot guarantee that the vehicle complied at all times with the minimum weight requirements of Article 4.1,

WHEREAS, after having been drained of all its fuel, vehicle N°3 of the Lucky Strike BAR Honda weighed 594.6 kg, and therefore did not conform to Article 4.1 of the Technical Regulations, the only way in which the vehicle could meet the requirement of the minimum weight of 600 kg was to have used fuel as ballast, which does not conform to the requirements of Article 4.2,

WHEREAS the evidence submitted to the Court confirmed that both vehicles competing for Lucky Strike BAR Honda in the event concerned had the same specification fuel tanks,

WHEREAS the inspection revealed that on top of the 160 grams of fuel that was emptied, 8.92 kg of fuel still remained in a special compartment within the fuel tank and a further 2.46 kg remained in the bottom of the fuel tank. These quantities remained in the vehicle after the BAR Honda team had confirmed “That’s it” when asked if the draining process was completed,

WHEREAS it is not possible for the Court to find, on the basis of the evidence that it was provided with, that Lucky Strike BAR Honda deliberately committed fraud, their actions at the time of the emptying procedure of the vehicle after the event, and the fact that they did not use their right in accordance with Article 2.4, to address a request for clarification on the rules to the Technical Formula One Department of the FIA, show at the least a highly regrettable negligence and lack of transparency,

On these grounds

As to the form,

DECLARES and RULES that the appeal brought by the FIA is admissible

As to the content,


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INVALIDATES the decision N°49 of the Stewards at the San Marino Grand Prix on 24 April 2005, Giving a new RULING,

DECLARES and RULES that the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team failed to comply with Articles 1.9, 4.1, 4.2, 2.6 of the Sporting Regulations and also violates Article 151-c of the International Sporting Code,

EXCLUDES Lucky Strike BAR Honda team from the event in question,

SUSPENDS the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team from the next two events in the FIA Formula One Championship,

SUSPENDS the team for a period of six months after the above- mentioned two events, with this penalty suspended for a period of one year,

LEAVES it to the sporting authority to draw the consequences of the present decision while rectifying the classification of the event accordingly,

LEAVES it to the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team to pay the costs, which will be calculated in accordance with Article 190 of the International Sporting Code,

The PRESIDENT

Source FIA

[LUD02C]

Well, 8L is enough for around two laps at most circuits.
Average F1 fuel consumption is around 75L/100km
Imola is 4.93 km hence 3.7L per lap

Part of me is saying they cheated get rid of them and the other half is saying maybe a fine and 1 race suspension would be enough.

I'm guessing they (FIA) want to make an example of if you cheat you will end up like BAR-Honda.
OH well, whats done is done but the reputation will last a lot longer.

[Kawasaki]

thats sad, cheatings cheating. So what do you think honda take over at the end of the year?

[jackosimm]

hmmm bugger, well if they were found for cheating I spose it's all fair:thumbdwn: This'll learn em'

[^^v]

BAR Honda's reaction to ICA's decision
'This penalty is wholly and grossly disproportionate'
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Nick Fry

Following the decision of the FIA International Court of Appeal (ICA) earlier today, Nick Fry, Chief Executive Officer of B·A·R Honda made the following statement in relation to the ruling:

"B·A·R Honda is appalled at the decision of the FIA International Court of Appeal and asserts that the judgement is contrary to all of the evidence heard yesterday. The team proved that it complied with the current regulations and the FIA now acknowledges that the regulations are unclear.

"We repeat that at no time did B·A·R Honda run underweight at the San Marino Grand Prix and this was also unchallenged by the FIA.

"While the International Court of Appeal rejected the FIA's original accusations of fraud and deception, B·A·R Honda says that this penalty is wholly and grossly disproportionate.

"The team is advised by its legal counsel that the judgement is plainly wrong based on the evidence presented and it is currently examining its options."

Press release
BAR Honda

[^^v]

BAR HONDA to appeal against the decision



BAR Honda fight race ban
The team looking for a way to race this weekend
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BAR Honda want to race this weekend

BAR-Honda plan to go to court to claim their place on the grid for the Spanish Grand Prix after being thrown out of the event here Thursday afternoon.

The team were banned from this weekend's race and the next race in Monaco after a court of appeal hearing in Paris concluded they had failed to comply with the regulations at the last race in San Marino.

But they are determined to continue racing this weekend and in a statement team principal Nick Fry said: "BAR- Honda is appalled at the decision of the FIA International Court of Appeal.

"The team asserts that the judgement is contrary to all of the evidence heard yesterday. The team proved that it complied with the current regulations and the FIA now acknowledges that the regulations are unclear. We repeat that at no time did BAR Honda run underweight at the San Marino Grand Prix and this was also unchallenged by the FIA."

While the International Court of Appeal rejected the FIA's original accusations of fraud and deception, BAR Honda believe that this penalty is wholly and grossly disproportionate.

The team are advised by their legal counsel that the judgement is plainly wrong based on the evidence presented and are currently examining their options.


The team is already set up in the Barcelona paddock and Fry confirmed that they have some of the best sporting lawyers in the world working on their case. "It's the team's objective to race here this weekend," he added. "We need to get some judgement from a court pretty soon, probably tomorrow (Friday) morning. I think we need to get the car into qualifying so I think that will be our final deadline.

"I've spoken to (race drivers) Jenson (Button) and Takuma (Sato) and they are fully aware of the situation. Obviously what they want to do is go racing. Our practice times at the last test were impressive so we came here to win a race.

"It's especially disappointing for both of them. The next two races are crucial to us and given our performance in the last race and given our performance in testing, these are both races we can win."

Australian Minardi team chief Paul Stoddart took the FIA to court at the Australian Grand Prix in March to protest their decision not to allow his 2004-specificaion cars to race in Melbourne and won the case. But his team, who are consistently at the back of the grid, subsequently changed their plans and ran to the 2005 regulations after the future of the Australian Grand Prix was threatened due to the court's decision.

Spaniard Fernando Alonso, the world championship leader who drives for Renault, said that any team failing to observe the regulations should be appropriately punished.

"We all know there are regulations and if you break them this is what happens. Jenson (Button) drove a terrific race at Imola and it must be very disappointing for him, but I am sure they will be back," said Alonso.

Source AFP


interesting to hear Alonso's comments... after his idiotic comments earlier

[Javed]

Man I hope they are on the grid, cos they were set to kick ass this week at Barcelona.

[JESPER]

I just dont know. I mean, its Honda, they are always on the edge of everything, I really dont think they 'overlooked' something and were wrong. Nor do I think they would cheat. Its been said that the rules were unclear, they merely(sp) took use of this. If they are smart enough to use that, then thumbs up to them.

[civ_sik]

bar is ghey, go the red cars

[civiceg9]

"cancel the decision taken by the Stewards because it did not respect the technical and sporting regulations of Formula One as well as the rules of the International Sporting Code"
I wonder what the stewards at the GP do then. Might as well let FIA take the F1 cars home to check it out.

the information contridicts
Article 1.9 “the weight of the car with the driver wearing his complete racing apparel, at all times during the event”, and must not be related with the weight of the car in ‘running order’ as defined in article 1.10
Article 4.1. of the Technical Regulations, without mentioning the fuel, requires that at all times during the event, whether or not the driver is weighed separately, the weight must not be less than 600 kg.

"The FIA now acknowledges that the regulations are unclear. We repeat that at no time did BAR Honda run underweight at the San Marino Grand Prix and this was also unchallenged by the FIA."
I think BAR just happen to find a hole in the rules as the stupid F1 Article is so shit.


stupid BAR and FIA (ICA is run by FIA people)
can Honda buy out BAR tmr and rename it to Honda F1 Racing? :D
bring on GPWC!!!

[Vivski]

Well, this is bumfuzzling. The FIA wants to ban a team from F1. Why? Because they were trying to exploit a loophole. Every team tries to exploit loopholes, that's what gives you the edge.

Remember when Bridgestone were found to have illegal spec tyres? They rolled onto the sidewall for more grip. Did the FIA call for Bridgestone to be banned from F1?
No seriously... did they? I can't remember.

Not sure what the FIA is planning. Shouldn't you be encouraging teams in F1? Especially high profile ones like BAR Honda. Give them a fine, take a few points, close the loophole or ambiguity and continue.

I don't see what the fuss is about. The teams are always trying to exploit the rules. If you ban every team which exploits the rules, you have no F1. The punishments have to be significant and proportional. Fines and point deductions should be sufficient.

I'm pretty certain that no team complies with the rules 100%. There are always interpretations of ambiguity and loopholes to exploit. It's unfortunately the way it is.

[Hondavirgin]

I'm pretty certain that no team complies with the rules 100%. There are always interpretations of ambiguity and loopholes to exploit. It's unfortunately the way it is.

just coz everyone else is doing it it makes it ok? Rules are rules, you break them you wear the consequences. If it's an ambiguity then its up to you to prove you were right, happens in law all the time, its all open to interpretation.

Anyways, its only two races. i think thats a fair punishment. Anything less wouldn't even be a punishment. Just stripping imola points would be what? 8 points or something, as opposed to 8 points plus the chance of 16 more.


Having said all that, I'm all for GPWC!

[Vivski]

From what I've heard, I think 2 race suspension and 6 month suspended plus being stripped of points is fair. Maybe take away all their points for the season so far (which isn't much).

It may've been unclear in my post, but I think 2 races is a good punishment. Shame to penalise Button and Sato who may or may not've known about it. What I don't think is a fair and proportional punishment is the FIA calling for a total ban. That's just stupidity.

[Hondavirgin]

oh, yeah, i agree, whole season was crazy.

[Fr3aKi3]

i say boot BAR/BAT or whatever its called now.. (as u can see i havnt been keeping up with f1lately)
it'd be great to hav a full blown honda team...

just my 2c

[nEUROtic]

i say boot BAR/BAT or whatever its called now.. (as u can see i havnt been keeping up with f1lately)
it'd be great to hav a full blown honda team...

just my 2c


Honda own "80%" (not sure - open for correction) of the team now. They arent able to just say right we wanna make our own team now. If BAR hada been excluded its not like honda coulda said "Yeah cool no worries we are HONDA now" and rejoined the championship.

[^^v]

Honda own "80%" (not sure - open for correction) of the team now. They arent able to just say right we wanna make our own team now. If BAR hada been excluded its not like honda coulda said "Yeah cool no worries we are HONDA now" and rejoined the championship.

no no.. i dun think its 80% just yet...
they owne something like 45% ... well somewhere around that mark annyway...

[mikes94]

Even if Honda were to buy out BATs 55% (Yes Honda owns 45% at the moment) ... although the team would be badged Honda, the employees would more than likely still be the same “cheating” BAR employees.
Note my sarcasm here – whether they are actually cheats or not is irrelevant, they will from now on in be known as the “cheating team”.
You should hear what people on the F1 forums are saying … effectively now BAR = Honda = Cheaters and all their previous accomplishments (ie. last years 2nd place in championship) are viewed as being the result of cheating (regardless of whether its true or not).
As I said in my first post this whole episode has brought shame upon Honda and nothing can remove this now regardless of the truth.

[^^v]

thats so true...
the accusations alone inflicted damage to Honda...
its sucha shame...

[nEUROtic]

Yep mud sticks, and yes what you were saying about them being just HONDA, and keeping all staff would be the same. I doubt highly bernie would let that happen anyway, would kinda defeat the purpose of the punishment wouldnt it if they could just rebadge.

[Fr3aKi3]

Honda own "80%" (not sure - open for correction) of the team now. They arent able to just say right we wanna make our own team now. If BAR hada been excluded its not like honda coulda said "Yeah cool no worries we are HONDA now" and rejoined the championship.


i didnt mean it in that way...
i'm all for dishing out punishment when deserved and all that

my point (which i didnt emphasize properly, my bad...) was that if Honda had much more input, such as Toyota with their team. Then chances of something like this would be minimal if not non existant.

gimme JGTC or Super GT (i think its changed names...) over F1 anyday
more exciting to watch, the rules make cars performance on a level playing field

[mikes94]

News just in ... BAR-Honda are going cop the 2 race ban (and not take the matter to the civil courts as they were suggesting after the decision).

I'm shattered ... no BAR-Honda for 2 races ... and even after that their name is disgraced.

[Fr3aKi3]

would they still be allowed to test?

[jackosimm]

good point about not punishing jenson and sato too much cause chances are they might not of known, and an un-intentional mistake from the team, I think the current punishment is fair however, only way to learn

[bigteethygrin]

jensons just surrounded by ppl who make mistakes huh.. first managers taht cant read contracts properly to mechanics that cant read scales properly :)... the guy cant get a break

[jackosimm]

yeah I know, he has hardly had any luck, BAR changing to michelins that year improved drastically and were looking good through my eyes to start battling for the championship after the last couple of years performances, but daym they just car get it right in that team

[LUD02C]

An interview with Nick Fry, just the last few questions.

Q. What are you going to be discussing with the other teams?

Fry: In the first instance we want the teams to be supportive of our situation. We know we never ran under 600kgs and the other teams are fully familiar with that as well. I don't think any of our competitors think that we have cheated or done anything wrong. That's the first thing we want from them. And obviously, the rules being interpreted this way, with this level of penalty, has serious implications. Formula 1 and its technical challenge is to get as close to the edge. That's the nature of motorsport. It has made everyone along the pitlane think twice about their own cars given the fact that if you do transgress, or even appear to transgress, the penalties are very significant. I know there are a lot of thought-provoking discussions going on.

Q. Do you really think the others are going to support you?

Fry: The other teams, especially the motor manufacturer teams, are completely glued together, so we will decide collectively what to do as the result of this.

Q. The inference is that you seem to have a much bigger collector tank than strictly necessary. What's your technical justification for that?

Fry: What you will find, and I don't think there's any secrets now, is that our fuel system runs at 50 bar pressure. A road car runs at about two bar. Many of the other teams are running at much lower pressure than us and I know that other teams that have tried to run at the pressures that we run at, have encountered exactly the same problem that we have, which is that you need a large amount of fuel pressurising the system. Our car has to carry 6kgs of fuel in the tank and, without that, the first thing that happens is that the fuel pump starts to get air into it and very shortly thereafter, the engine starts to see air going into it instead of pure fuel and obviously that starts to damage the engine very quickly. In the environment where we have got to last two races, we can't have that happen. It's almost like a home central heating system. We need a header tank of fuel to push pressure against the pump to make sure that the fuel pump and the engine only see fuel, and not air. So we need to carry fuel. That, in our view, is not ballast, it is like oil or water or any of the other fluids in the car. It's necessary. The car would not be able to go into parc ferme or run in the event without that fuel in it. And, in our case, its 6kgs. That's just the fact of our system and I'm absolutely certain that other teams, if they do advance to very high pressure systems, are going to find exactly the same problems. This is a pure engineering issue.

Q. That being the case, how do you design it out of the car?

Fry: We will be doing two things in the next couple of weeks. Number one is that we will either design our system so that we don't need to carry as much fuel to prime the system or, two, we are going to have to carry yet more fuel so that effectively at all times we will be 6kgs over the weight limit. That's something our engineers will have to grapple with over the next two or three weeks.

Q. How has (technical director) Geoff Willis taken this?

Fry: Geoff is under a lot of pressure and we attribute no blame to anyone for this. We are fully supportive of Geoff and the rest of the engineering team and I'm sure when you see the witness statement in the pack that we put before the court, you are going to see that everyone has acted with tremendous integrity. What you will find in the witness statement is not only statements from our team but also a statement from Sir Frank Williams talking about the credibility and integrity of Geoff Willis and Craig Wilson, both of whom came from the Williams team. So it's not just us fully in support of Geoff, it's others along the pitlane that know there is no way in a million years that Geoff would countenance anything other than strict obedience to the rules.

Q. If you were running a bigger collector tank than has been used in the past, did you not seek to clarify it with the FIA beforehand. And if not, why not?

Fry: The system is very straightforward and the manufacturer has confirmed that our system is not unusual in any way. The FIA actually looked at our tank in detail in Malaysia, and again in Bahrain, and nothing was said. It was just accepted as a regular, ordinary fuel system and so I think it has confirmed that there is nothing different about our system.

Q. But that only became relevant at Imola?

Fry: I'm not sure that's the case. It's very easy to see how it works, the FIA didn't ask any questions about us and our car was at all times over the weight limit at Imola. No-one in the FIA court or among our competitors has ever accused us of running under weight. The car always weighs significantly over 600 kilos.

Q. How would you propose the FIA now checks cars to see that they are not running under weight?

Fry: The FIA conclusion was that the rules weren't altogether clear and what I would expect would be a clarification of the rules, which should be fairly easy to do because one of the things we brought out in court was that in other FIA series, and we specifically talked about sportscar racing and touring cars, it's very well defined. It specifically says the car must be effectively dry of fuel and I think that's the simplest way of doing it. The Formula One rules, and we've learned this to our cost, don't say that. We completely maintain we obeyed the rules as written, but we acknowledge, as the FIA do, that the rules are far from clear.

[LUD02C]

FIA President Max Mosley has accused BAR of a "crude" and "primitive" attempt to break the rules - and revealed he suspected them before the season even started.

The FIA successfully appealed to have BAR punished for entering an underweight car in the San Marino GP, after which Jenson Button's car was found to have a secondary fuel tank.

Mosley claims he was stunned to learn of BAR's device, which kept a quantity of fuel apart from the main tank.

"You have got to be crazy to do it," said Mosley at Barcelona prior to this weekend's Spanish GP. "People don't do that sort of thing in Formula One any more."

"It's the sort of thing people do in a club race, low-grade racing. It's crude, it's primitive, it's not sophisticated electronics."

Mosley claims he was aware of paddock gossip over the winter which suggested BAR were running cars which did not meet regulations.

BAR strenuously deny any wrongdoing and insist they never ran under the 600-kilogram minimum weight during the San Marino Grand Prix.

But Mosley said: "Everybody who was really in the know in Formula One strongly suspected something was going on. There was a general rumour in Formula One that this was going on.

"The 2004 season is closed, there may be an issue between the teams but as far as we are concerned it is closed. The truth is they went on too long if they were doing it last year.

"I personally heard about this during the winter from someone who does not work in Formula One but works in top-level motorsport in the United States.

"The reason I didn't tell [technical delegate] Charlie Whiting at Imola was because if it's true they would know this rumour was going around and nobody would be so stupid as to do it at their first competitive race.

"My intention was to talk to our people about it at this race."

The FIA had asked their International Court of Appeal to exclude BAR from the rest of the season, having accused them of "fraud".

The appeal court did not agree with that assessment of BAR's behaviour.

Mosley added: "Confronted with what appeared to be a deliberate infringement, BAR have pleaded stupidity and the judges have given them the benefit of the doubt.

"I suspect that the judges in the appeal court felt there was some doubt and they were not willing to go all the way and say fraud.

"That would have been the end of the season for BAR-Honda. I think two races reflects the disapproval for the negligence."

BAR have argued that they did not break the rules because nowhere is it explicitly written that a car must weigh 600kg or more when drained of fuel.

They insist data proves they never competed with an underweight car, but Mosley claims "the only way we can be certain is to take the fuel out and weigh it".

He added: "It is for the team to prove they never went under 600kg. Once you analyse it clearly there is no debate, to the extent that in the appeal we didn't even send a barrister."

[LUD02C]

Just read that BAR have scaped the appeal.
No BAR for 2 races!

[Vivski]

You seem excited to see the back of BAR, Jason.

Well, from this and the other thread, I'm pretty sure of my stance. The FIA are wrong on this one. And I don't think BAR should be suspended at all. If the FIA want to change the rules to outlaw this, then they should do so. It's easy... you write "Before and after the race, the car must have a dry weight of over 600kg." That is not stated in the regulations, is it? Therefore the FIA cannot prove that BAR cheated and ran it's car under-weight.

From what BAR says, they need that fuel in the car the whole time, so it wasn't running under-weight. And not the FIA nor the officials for San Marino have proven otherwise.

And for the FIA to try to ban the team completely over this doesn't give the teams much faith in their governing body.

Can anyone remember what happened when Ferrari and Bridgestone were found to be cheating with their tyres? I can't remember what the FIA and Max Mosley said.

[LUD02C]

I actually wasn't happy when I heard they aren't racing this weekend.
I was wanting to see Jenson fighting it out with Alonso and Michael hell even Kimi.

Thing is, if they cheated they deserve the fine/suspension.
I'm 50/50 on this.

But I don't think banning them from 2 races is a solution at all.

[^^v]

Second to last paragraph...



http://www.f1central.net/newsphotos/april/a/jbut230403.jpg
(GMM) Banned F1 team BAR packed up and left Circuit de Catalunya without the single turn of a F1 wheel.

Team trucks, carrying the '007' cars, rumbled out of Barcelona late Friday, although the motorhome stayed put -- to entertain Honda and BAT bigwigs.

''We believe we could have won (here),'' said a gutted CEO Nick Fry, and Jenson Button (http://www.f1central.net/profiles/item/formula_one/driver/15/Jenson-Button/view.html) commented later that he would've been even stronger at Monaco.

Fry said the two-race ban, to not be challenged further so as to save F1 'a damaging fight,' would - to honour contracts - cost BAR more than $10m.

Then there's the Button issue, and the fact that meeting performance criteria to retain the 25-year-old Englishman is now near-impossible.

''We've certainly made things more difficult for ourselves,'' Nick Fry admitted.


Written: Sat, 07 May 2005 05:36:23



so i guess this means button will be leaving at the end of the season... unless some merical happens n BAR Honda wins every race from the European GP onwards

[pornstar]

You know the problem with all of this is the uncertainty in the wording. Max Mosley claiming them to be cheats certainly doesnt do anything for the reputation of the sport.

Fuel is not to be sued as ballasts, but the BAR honda team argue that the extra bit that they keep in there is merely to keep the car running "at all". IE its not ballast to them, but something that must remain in the system for the car to be running. But serisouly if your going to CHEAT over fuel, wouldnt u think they woulda used more than the 5kg difference found?

In any case, It sucks cos I know i personally wont be watching the next 2 F1 comps. Max Mosley is just a c0cksucker that cant take the fact that his the one fvcking the sport up. Taking it out on every team other than ferrari, yeah thats a good way of managing a competition u fvcking r3tard, how about posing simple solutions and working with the rebel teams to get to a solution.

meh to all of this, everyone pushes rules, its not cheating. The tribunal couldnt find bar CHEATED, they found them lacking transparency and not for getting the issue clarified, but clearly, if they did nothing intentional, they shouldnt be punished but the rules clarified in future.

[^^v]

Could there have been more cheats?




http://www.f1central.net/newsphotos/march/a/bara190302davidson.jpg
(GMM) As the shudder of BAR's two-race ban is still felt up and down pitlane, it has emerged that three more teams may also have been running an iffy fuel setup.

Britain's 'Guardian' newspaper said the trio is believed to have 'modified (their tank's) design' after BAR were found guilty of using fuel as ballast and running an underweight contender.

But, at Imola, FIA stewards did not also check - for example - the Ferrari (http://www.f1central.net/profiles/item/formula_one/team/2/Ferrari/view.html) F2005 and Renault (http://www.f1central.net/profiles/item/formula_one/team/8/Renault/view.html) R25's own fuel system.

''We have not even the slightest reason to believe other teams are doing this,'' FIA president Max Mosley said at Barcelona.

However, BAR's fuel cell supplier - ATL - revealed that it builds a near-identical design for several other teams.

Mosley admitted that there are 'similar systems' in pitlane, but that BAR's offence was using fuel as ballast in the secondary tank.

[panda[cRx]]

i just had to post this :D....
http://www.distortedempire.com/new-sig.gif

[^^v]

ahahahahahahaaaa... the one with sato n button is hilarious...

[Javed]

Mosley is really out of line here. His comments sound like a personal attack on BAR. His comments are very immature and unprofessional for a person of his position. The rules and regs were unclear, so the damage that has been brought upon the reputation of BARHonda is completely unjust. Their car wouldn't even last 5 laps if they ran underweight, due to what Nick Fry has already stated about the pressure of the fuel system. I think Mosley is just pissed off because BAR are always trying to push the limits, which is NOT cheating. And for him to say he suspected them due to rumours he had heard was very very childish. How can he say that he would not suspect any of the other teams if he was merely going on word of mouth? The top 3 cars should have been inspected the same. Jenson's car would not have made the distance if that car was running underweight.

[MoonSha]

I don't like this Max Mosley chap at all, the bullshit he spits out after tha fact is a pathetic attempt to cover his own arse and shift all blame of "cheating" onto Bar Honda. I haven't followed this very closely but his "revealed suspect" from the start of the year is absolute bullshit, if he is so all knowing why didn't he get the car pulled apart earlier? Isn't that his job?

[LUD02C]

A few interesting articles from f1-live.com

BAR Honda gets FIA warning
The team's comments under investigation
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http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/imgactu/05/fry-barcelona_050505_220x153.jpg
The FIA didn't appreciate
some of BAR's comments

Motorsport's world governing body, the FIA, on Monday warned the BAR-Honda Formula One team to accept their two-race ban or face further punishment.

BAR-Honda were given the suspension, which forced them out of the Spanish and Monaco Grand Prix races, after Jenson Button's car was found to be underweight following the San Marino Grand Prix.

The team were fiercely critical of their punishment, first promising to fight the decision of the FIA's International Court of Appeal before withdrawing that threat and criticising the severity of the penalty.

The FIA said Monday that they are examining BAR's comments to see if they can be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute. The FIA statement said: "No manufacturer, however large, will be allowed a concealed or unfair advantage. Those unable or unwilling to accept this have no place in Formula One.

"They should also understand that any sport is likely to impose further sanctions on a competitor which attacks the integrity of the governing body when caught breaking the rules.

"Statements attributed to the management of BAR-Honda are currently under investigation in the light of the team's obligation to do nothing 'prejudicial to the image and dignity of Formula One racing' or 'prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally'.


"The manufacturers concerned came into Formula One for their own reasons. They were not invited - they invited themselves. Each of them accepted the rules and structures of the sport as they had done on many previous occasions."

The FIA also dismissed criticism of their appeals court, which five of the Formula One engine manufacturers want replaced by the independent Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

There was widespread belief in the paddock that BAR were not treated unduly harshly and concerns about whether the FIA's appeal court is truly independent of the governing body.

DaimlerChrysler, Renault, BMW, Toyota and Honda, which owns 45 percent of BAR, called for an "independent appeals process administered by an internationally recognised body."

Source FIA
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Ferrari must improve qualifying performance
Jean Todt's number one priority
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http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/imgactu/05/todt-barcelona_080505_220x155.jpg
There is a problem...
Ferrari failed to score a championship point in last Sunday’s Spanish Grand Prix at the Circuit de Catalunya outside Barcelona, following poor qualifying from both drivers and eventual retirement for Michael Schumacher with two deflating tyres.

“It’s getting more difficult," admitted Ferrari Team Principal Jean Todt. "Every race where the others score six, eight, ten points more than us makes it more difficult for us. But it’s a long championship, there are 14 races to go.”

In terms of resources, Todt admitted that “we have everything. It’s up to us. We don’t do a good enough job, that’s clear. We’re not going to find excuses. There’s not a lot missing. But we must start in front. If we start in front we will be strong.”


That, in a nutshell, is Ferrari’s current handicap: qualifying. And in turn, that is caused by the lack of performance of their tyres over one lap. Of all the things that Ferrari have to improve, that would be Todt’s priority.

“I would say it is mainly that first lap. It puts us in a difficult and critical situation. It’s so much easier when you start ahead. If you start in front you remain in front. We are quite good on durability up to a certain point, but we have to analyse what happened (here). We had an engine problem on Rubens’s car, which completely compromised his race, even if it wasn’t caused by fundamental new parts on this part of the engine. I would say unfortunately it’s things that normally happen, because we have been so successful without having any failures and then suddenly they come. It’s under our control, it’s up to us, we have to work better.”


http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/imgactu/05/schumacher-barcelona_080505_220x141.jpg
A difficult race for Schumacher...
Todt pointed out that there are advantages and disadvantages to being the only competitive team on Bridgestone tyres. “We are alone fighting with Bridgestone tyres. As I have said, Bridgestone is a great partner, great, because we’ve won more than anybody else with them. But if we have the slightest problem, which is the case at the moment, we end up with eight cars in front of us. But do I complain? No, we know this, but we wanted this situation.

“Having said that, we would have nothing against another top team on Bridgestone. It would definitely help in testing,” continued Todt before explaining Bridgestone’s current situation with one lap tyre development. “They are working on it, but you know then to achieve a result is a question mark, and before the next race? It can be two races, three, five or anything.”

The Spanish Grand Prix was won by Kimi Raikkonen by over 20s from Fernando Alonso, who had won the last three races. Was Todt surprised by Raikkonen’s pace? “It was the same pace at Imola when Raikkonen was in front, and definitely Alonso was struggling for a while today,” said Todt.

Michael Schumacher had been third when he retired; could he have finished second? “I don’t want to guess. The only thing I know is that he was heavier than the others, which allowed him to be third when he retired. Unless a specific problem arose, he would have been fighting to improve the situation. Whether he would have done it or not, I don’t know.”

But Todt has been encouraged by the performance of the Ferrari F2005 since its debut three races ago. “We were very competitive in Bahrain until we were in the race. At Imola we were very competitive but we started too far back. Here, today, we were very competitive until we had a problem, and we started too far back. It’s what I said. We are competitive, but at the moment we don’t score points, which is no good. It’s better not to be competitive and score maximum points, but that wouldn’t happen either.”

Ferrari Press
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAR gambled and paid the price
Says Ferrari's Jean Todt
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http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/imgactu/05/todt-barcelona-wri_080505_154x220.jpg
Jean Todt

Ferrari team principal Jean Todt on Monday backed the sport's governing body, the FIA, over their decision to ban rivals BAR Honda from the Spanish and Monaco Grand Prix races.

BAR, who finished runners-up to Ferrari last year, were last week found guilty of running their cars illegally at the San Marino Grand Prix and Todt said they have rightfully been made to pay.

"If you play, it all depends on the limit where you want to play and where you don't want to play," said Todt. "For them, they take a risk and you can get the cost of it, and that's what happened.

"Whether the punishment was enough or not enough, I'm not going to comment on the decision that was taken. I don't like people to judge us, so I would feel uncomfortable to say that and then to judge them. All I will say is that Ferrari would never have got themselves into the situation where they (BAR Honda) have been."

Jenson Button and Takuma Sato were forced to sit out the race here last Sunday and will miss the glamorous race in Monaco next week before returning to the grid for the European Grand Prix at the end of May.


They were accused of running underweight at Imola, the fourth race of the year, but have continued to protest their innocence since the ban was handed out by the International Court of Appeal last Thursday.

BAR's season has been a massive disappointment and the team are yet to score a point after retiring both cars from the first three races and seeing their double finish in San Marino scratched from the record books.

Ferrari are in similar trouble, however, and Todt has no sympathy for BAR as he focuses on turning around the fortunes of world champion Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello.

Schumacher finished second behind Fernando Alonso in San Marino but Todt said: "We lost that race because of them, because of the many laps Michael spent (behind Button). But all that is history. You must always leave what has happened, you cannot re-make races. It's too easy to criticise others, to judge. All I can say is that we need to improve.

"It's easy to say but difficult to achieve because our opposition are very strong. We are competitive, but at the moment we don't score points, which is no good. It's under our control, but it's getting more difficult (for the title). Every race where the others score more points than you it makes it more difficult. But it's a long championship, there are 14 races to go.

"We have been like this already in the past. We like winning, but we accept losing. But if you ask me which I prefer, the answer is easy. We don't do a good enough job, that's clear. We're not going to find excuses."

Source AFP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Those who think we are out of it do not know us'
Says Michael Schumacher
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http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/imgactu/05/schumacher-barcelona_080505_220x151.jpg
'It is far from over' - Schumacher


The result was a headline writer's dream: Schumacher and Ferrari left deflated, or something along those lines. The result could have given Michael a hangover but the surprising thing (or perhaps not too surprising) is that he is far from feeling gloomy a day after his retirement from the Spanish GP.

Instead Michael wanted to again thank all those behind the scenes. "Those who consider us to be out of the running do not know us," he declared. "Of course it wasn't the greatest result in the race for the title; that is clear enough. Despite this, the season's opening races have proved just how much can change during a single weekend and how quickly they can change. So, I'll say it once more: the season is a long one and lots could still happen. Obviously the title challenge has got harder but all is not yet lost. We will go on working and battling. As I said yesterday, it is far from over."

Rubens will be back out testing as early as tomorrow (Tuesday). Michael will be behind the wheel at Maranello on Wednesday and Thursday. "We will not be swayed by all the worry. We will work calmly on our weak points and we will get back to being competitive as soon as we can."

Source Ferrari Press

[pornstar]

Ill put 5 bucks now that ferrari are out of it against ya jase :)

[jackosimm]

Yeah I think BAR should cop it on the chin. Good response to the appeal by the FIA threatening harsher punishments if they continue with the appeal!
Love Todt, what honesty! saying they have everything and its up to us, we arent doing a good enough job. Good on him! And like Jean and Michael said, its a long season, still only the begining!! Anything can happen from here and it will certainly make the remaining races extremely interesting! Good post there Jase good articles:thumbsup:

[Javed]

Actually, Todt is an arrogant prick. The fact of the matter is Jenson was not running underweight, so he cannot say it is BAR's fault they did not win. Schumacher was bnot behind button that much either, and his pass was relatively given to him. Farking bullshit, sore loser.

[Vivski]

I think it's time for BAR to shut up. They copped a dodgy one, they've made their point and now they must move on. Work on the car and drivers and hit the ground running when they get back into it.

Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher are right. Get the qualifying right and they'll win race after race. Schumacher it a great competetor and once he's ahead it will be very hard to beat him and the Ferrari tacticians.

It's a long season, but I don't think Schumacher can win from here. He'd need a lot of luck and mistakes from Alonso and Renault. Even if he won all the races from now on, he still might not win the championship. But it's possible. Only takes a couple of races to change the championship.

[jackosimm]

yeah BAR should simply move on i think. Michael may yet win, long season, and if they climb to the usual dominance itll be good, but thats unlikely, I reckon we are set for a great season till the final race!

[Javed]

Get real! Schumacher has no chance!

[^^v]

as the manufacturers go its still wide open.. BAR r still in with a chance hoho

but as for the drivers championship... imo i dun think the great Michael can do it... unless Bridgestone turn their tyre performance around.. its all over red rover...

[jackosimm]

true that about the tyres, there not copin this year:thumbdwn: anywho, its all exciting:D

[Hondavirgin]

Get real! Schumacher has no chance!

I'd never say that about Schumacher, the man is a god who has worked miracles before....

plus, they have money to burn, a private test track to use 7 days a week, and a tyre company who is trying to custom design tyres to their needs.

[civ_sik]

GO FERRARI AND baR hopefully they can make it more compeditive

[LUD02C]

Ill put 5 bucks now that ferrari are out of it against ya jase :)

Done champ! :p

I don't know how you guys can call Todt a prick?
He is being honest in a sport that honesty is hard to get.

Can BAR test during this ban?
If they can, they are stupid if they keep going on with the media and not test.

Michael and Ferrari will not quit, when was the last time you heard a driver did 200 laps in testing then 3-4 days later starts qualifying and then races? (spain 05)

I think the Renaults have major competition with McLaren and Toyota now and that works in Michaels favor.

I reckon, when BAR come back at Nurginring (sp) they will be red hot.

[pornstar]

Hehe, ok guys, this post is NOT to be deleted, there will be a 5 buck note being sent to me at the end of the season when MS is not the champ :)

BAR will come back with a vengeance....I hope :)

[LUD02C]

Hehe, ok guys, this post is NOT to be deleted, there will be a 5 buck note being sent to me at the end of the season when MS is not the champ :)

BAR will come back with a vengeance....I hope :)

I think I'll be recieving that $5 bucks! :thumbsup:

[Vivski]

I'll take your money too Jase. How much do you want to give me?

[jackosimm]

Yeah bit unfair calling Todt a prick, read what he just said, and that certainly isnt the first time him or michael have accepted the faults. Like Jase asked, Can BAR test? Id hope not cause their waisting time at the moment :thumbdwn:

[pornstar]

haha is jase taking on 2 ppl for ms to be the champ? remember, im saying MS cant be champ, and i got 5 riding on it, jase pays :)

[LUD02C]

I'll take Vivski on as well.
You are both on.
Michael not champ this year, i'll pay both of you $5

[pornstar]

Deal has been done :)

[jackosimm]

Deal has been done
you ready to wave that $5 bye bye's:wave: ? lol na this actually should be interesting, both very likely

[^^v]

im pretty sure BAR can test during their exclusion..
i read sumwhere (i think f1live) that BAR r planning to break the 'gentilmens' agreement (about the allocated 30 days of testing during the season) in response to the lost track time they woulda had in the GP's...

[Vivski]

You're on Jase, $5 on Schumacher not 2005 World Champ.

I don't think he'll do it, 'cos there's too much opposition. If he has a bad round, he'll have Kimi and Jarno if not Ralf and Fisi infront of him. But we'll see.

[jackosimm]

good on them, have as much as they want I say, 30 isnt enough for sure:thumbdwn: follow Ferrari

[Vivski]

So what now? Will BAR have to run overweight for the rest of the season or will they redesign?

[LUD02C]

Is the BAR V8 chassis different to the current shape?

[^^v]

the one they ran at Mugello was a 'lightly' modified 007...
im sure their final design will be different...
i've heard rumours that the 008 is already under development...

Geoff Willis describing the engine...


...Really, really low and shorter than usual, with a lack of power and a lower stroke curve compared to the actual V10, as logical.

[LUD02C]

I heard that because its smaller and lighter, chassis design's will be changing abit and that aero will have to change.

More money, more money
Oh wait, this was to "save" money.

[jackosimm]

yeah they said it was more like a moto GP engine lol...killing the sport...killing it

[Javed]

Ill put $20 on schumey not winnign the season.

[jackosimm]

make it $5 and ur on lol! yeah i know im a stingie c*^t

[LUD02C]

Jackosimm, Javed is yours dude.
I already got 2 bets going.

[jackosimm]

booya! I think we've made a very healthy investment:p

[pornstar]

healthy? how is making a loss healthy ;)

[Javed]

My Offer of $20 still stands.

[^^v]

http://www.f1central.net/newsphotos/march/a/bara180301.jpg
(GMM) BAR believe that six of its nine F1 team rivals also ran a potentially underweight car at Imola.

A document released publicly by the banned Brackley squad revealed how team manager Ron Meadows had, in the event that BAR's fuel system was deemed illegal at the circuit, prepared multiple protests.

''We believed,'' Ron wrote in a court submission, ''that (their) fuel systems ... were similar to ours ... and would have ... contained fuel after being weighed.''

He added, however, that no other car's fuel system - although near identical - was also checked by the FIA for illegality.

Meadows' protests, though, never saw light of day as stewards deemed the 007 system legal -- until the FIA appealed.



source f1central.net

[^^v]

glad to see em move on...
lets hope this is the last we hear of such incidents...



FIA Court of Appeal judgement 'fair'
A statement from BAR Honda
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http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/imgactu/05/bar-appeal_040505_220x154.jpg
B•A•R keen to put the Imola saga behind them
What follows is a statement from B•A•R Honda in which they announce that they now accept that Formula One cars must be above the minimum weight requirement at all times with fuel removed from the car. The team now claim that the findings of the Court of Appeal were 'fair'.

Having investigated the matter fully, including making extensive enquiries of other teams, B•A•R Honda now accept that Formula One cars must always weigh more than 600kg when completely empty of fuel and that this applies even if the car's fuel system is such that some of the fuel in the car is unusable. Before making these enquiries it was the team's honest belief that fuel which could not be used during the race did not have to be removed before the car was weighed.

On this basis B•A•R Honda accept the decision of the FIA Court of Appeal as fair in the circumstances and recognise that the judges in this, as in other cases, are fully independent, being lawyers and professional judges of high standing who give their service on a voluntary basis.

B•A•R Honda want nothing more than to compete with other teams in the Formula One World Championship on an entirely fair and equal basis and look forward to rejoining the competition at the European Grand Prix.

E.A.
Source BAR Honda



source f1live.com

[jackosimm]

My Offer of $20 still stands.

$5! lol, or you trying to lose $20 to someone else aswell?:p lol

[civ_sik]

yea think bar is over it now

[jackosimm]

B•A•R Honda want nothing more than to compete with other teams in the Formula One World Championship on an entirely fair and equal basis and look forward to rejoining the competition at the European Grand Prix.



Thats great, good to see them accept it and look forward to the future:thumbsup:

[LUD02C]

They have a very competitive car, I just think them missing 2 races wasn't the right solution.

But, enough negative talk.
More talk about how good there cars are going to be and how Sato will find another way of not getting any points. :p

[pornstar]

They have a very competitive car, I just think them missing 2 races wasn't the right solution.

But, enough negative talk.
More talk about how good there cars are going to be and how Sato will find another way of not getting any points. :p

hehe like schuey ;)

[jackosimm]

lol I dunno what to come back at that....maybe 7 world titles....

[pornstar]

erm, lucky we talking aboutt his season u by goner :p

[jackosimm]

oh dont worry im aware im aware, who's winning out of taku and schuey? this season or championships? Your call:p

[Vivski]

Taku is the leading driver for his country as far as points go. So he's the best Japanese driver. But Michael is the second best German driver so far this season.

But he has infinity times more points than Sato. Lol.

[Vivski]

Hey, if somehow my Civic conformed to F1 regs, if I entered it, I'd be on level points with both Sato and Button!

[jackosimm]

hahaha I like that, I'll use that one until they score some points. Just reading the title on this thread and damn we've pushed it off topic:D

[civ_sik]

Hey, if somehow my Civic conformed to F1 regs, if I entered it, I'd be on level points with both Sato and Button!

lol true... interesting way to look at it lol :wave:

[^^v]

maybe hes not a bad guy after all .. hmmmm but then again... lolz



http://www.f1central.net/newsphotos/april/a/tsat020402.jpg
(GMM) When BAR return to the track next Friday, team chiefs might want to slip Bernie Ecclestone a quiet 'thankyou.'

The 74-year-old 'supremo' revealed at Monte Carlo, where the Honda-owned squad will serve out a two-grand prix ban, that he persuaded FIA president Max Mosley not to chase a one-year ban for cheating.

''I told him to come back from that a little bit,'' Bernie said, ''because I was worried Honda might leave (F1).

''It would also not have been good for the sport.''

Ecclestone also basically admitted that his FIA job offer to liaise with the teams is a Mosley plot to appease damaged-beyond-repair relations.

''Max enjoys confrontation,'' he smiled, ''but I'd rather just get on and get the job done.''


Written: Fri, 20 May 2005 10:05:33

[Vivski]

''... because I was worried Honda might leave (F1)."
''It would also not have been good for the sport.''

Gee, no shit!

[LUD02C]

I still do think that someone didn't pay Max the right amount or anything at all and now he wants them to hurt.

[jackosimm]

why won't max just leave. Didn't think ol Bernie was that sorta bloke, although looking at that, all he wants is F1 to make more money and with BAR there, bingo

[civ_sik]

yeh f1 would be bad with nine teams, its bad enough with 10