[EURO] Air Intake Comparison

[EuroAccord13]

Ok.. I was so pissed at my assignment and I decided to relax by doing something else. It struck me that many Euro Owners here have either had their Intake system done or are comtemplating to have one.

So For All You Euro Owners Out there thinking of having an aftermarket intake system installed, I hope this will help your decision in some ways...

So here I have, the three main players in the Euro Intake System...

K&N Typhoon Cold Air Intake
CompTech IceBox
Injen Unit




Okay, here comes the Legal Part...
THE FOLLOWING IS PROVIDED AS A GUIDE ONLY! Neither Me Nor OzHonda hold any responsibility for any outcomes of anyone who chooses an intake system for their car based on this comparison. IT is solely based on my Opinions.
If you want more Information, contact the Manufacturers.
K&N, InJen and CompTech did not endorse this comparison.

Basically, read at your own risk!
If you don't agree, you better not read it :D


CHEERS
Nick

P.S : Yoram, do you mind reading the legal part of this and make any changes if needed so as to make the disclaimer easier to understand :) THANKS!

P.S : Boss, I want the Euro Owners to have a read at this before I move this to the Article Section, Is This Ok?:D


Ok, one concern about CAI is the possibility of a Hydrolock, what is it? Hydrolock in simple terms is simply water getting inside the engine and causes your car to stall and it also means a DEAD Engine...

The following diagram below show three Euros and each have a dotted line that in MY OPINION show the approximate highest level of tolerance before water can be sucked in huge amounts to cause a Hydrolock. How I came to this is rather simple. Water is heavier than air, as long as there is still a cavity for air to enter the filter, water will not be able to be sucked up. Water will be sucked up IF the cavity is not big enough to feed the amount of air required i.e. You rev the engine in a flood.... REMEMBER this is MY OPINION, I am not asking you to go try it to verify my opinion, if you choose to, IT IS AT YOUR OWN RISK AND RESPONSIBILITY.

Ok, to the diagram...
I hope it's informative and simple enough for you to understand.. I have the K&N Kit therefore, I know more about it. I've installed the CompTech Icebox before and know about that too. However, for the Injen System, from how I see it, is VERY similar to the K&N Unit except for the positioning of the filter...

NOTE : The K&N and Injen can both be converted into a Short Ram System meaning, Filter SITS in the Engine Bay..

EDIT : I woke up feeling refresh... Removed Legality of Filters on Yfin's Advice....


LASTLY.... It's ALL MY Opinions... No Responsibilty on me for you to listen..

Enjoy.....






http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/EuroAccord13/EuroAccord/AirIntakeReviewWeb.gif

[euro77]

The CompTech IceBox is also legal although the filter sits inside the engine bay but IT IS ENCLOSED. Only thing that makes it Illegal is that the UNIFilter needs to be oiled for it to work effectively, this applies to the K&N Filter, AEM etc etc.

Nice write up Nick. However, I think the CompTech IceBox is illegal because you remove the resonator (correct me if I'm wrong though). Although, most people probably wouldn't be able to tell.

[yfin]

Nick - a couple of things. I would prefer we not say things are legal or illegal until we are sure it is correct in all States. For example:

are you sure oiled panel filters are not legal in all states of Aust? The Comptech filter is oiled but sits in an enclosed box - I can't see oil ending up on the road if it is in an enclosed box. Further - if what you are saying is correct it would make ALL K&N replacement panel filters used in a stock box illegal across Aust. If that is right how does the K&N distributor sell these panel filters legally? They sell them for passenger cars and do not specify in Aust they are for track only.
Re hydrolock:

The diagrams above suggest that the Comptech Icebox would be the easiest to hydrolock. I am almost certain that is not the case. On the US forums people say the Icebox is the HARDEST or impossible to hydrolock due to the holes in the buttom of the airbox. I am emailing Comptech for the technical reason why and will post up response here.

[adammet04]

yeah i agree with yfin about hydrolock on the comptech...most of what ive read in most cases on forums etc = hear say , reckon comptech is safest for hydrolock. but reduction in air flow..

but the diagrams and information in the others looks pretty good so far..

great work on putting together an article like this though :)

[h22a accord]

interesting read. Technicaly changing any part of the intake can be deemed illegal as it MAY affect the emissions. It realy depends on the cop's discretion that looks under the bonnet. I have a CAI on my CD accord but the pod filter is not visible from the engine bay, althogh I've been defected for not having the CAI piping not properly secured...which i simply fixd with a zip tie. As 4 hydrolock, while the chances are increased by installing a CAI, the probability is low if u dont drive through deep water. You can buy special valves that u install in the CAI pipe 2 eliminate any chance of hydrolock but i have seen dyno results that show that the valves negate any performance gain as a result of a CAI 2 begin with.

[VirIIx]

well done mate!

only you spelt Cold Ait(r) wrong for Injen ;)

[Nickt]

Nice work!

But what is the final verdict? You have the K&N and you have installed and IceBox...which is the best option in your opinion?

[EuroAccord13]

Each unit have their own Pros and Cons..

For Example, The K&N Unit has a louder intake hiss as opposed to CompTech which has the filter enclosed inside the box...

Injen/K&N has the wank factor and CompTech is a discrete unit if you don't want the attention...

You might wanna also take price into consideration etc etc etc....

The decision is best left to each individual's discretion... :)

I won't say which one is better.. To me, as long as it has a proven dyno chart of a power increase.. It works...

[Pum[Z]]

Nice Review Nick...

It all depends on personal tastes and what the person wants in the end..

Comptech is the cheapest at all three filter...

Injen & K&N is relatively about the same in pricing... It all depends on the budget as well...

[VirIIx]

budget was no issue for me, i've had an AEM CAI before, cost a bit to get here, plus customs hit me..

i chose my icebox simply coz it's not loud like a CAI, i want to be descrete, yet have a bit of a performance buff :)

[qmjona]

Nick - a couple of things. I would prefer we not say things are legal or illegal until we are sure it is correct in all States. For example:

are you sure oiled panel filters are not legal in all states of Aust? The Comptech filter is oiled but sits in an enclosed box - I can't see oil ending up on the road if it is in an enclosed box. Further - if what you are saying is correct it would make ALL K&N replacement panel filters used in a stock box illegal across Aust. If that is right how does the K&N distributor sell these panel filters legally? They sell them for passenger cars and do not specify in Aust they are for track only.
Re hydrolock:

The diagrams above suggest that the Comptech Icebox would be the easiest to hydrolock. I am almost certain that is not the case. On the US forums people say the Icebox is the HARDEST or impossible to hydrolock due to the holes in the buttom of the airbox. I am emailing Comptech for the technical reason why and will post up response here.


I expect they they are referring to the small hole in the bottom of the air box, it is only say 2% of the size of the opening to the cold air intake pipe, but if thay were to block (by going under water) air would be drawn through the small hole preveting the engine being starved of air to water being drawn in (which I reckon would be very unlikely anyway).

[blkeuro]

I had a K&N Typhoon SRI, Injen CAI and modded airbox w/high flow filter on my last car (integra DC5R). In terms of best to worst it would have been:

- Injen CAI. Best intake system (IMO) for the DC5R. Pulled all the way to redline. Didn't feel any loss in low end torque like others have described.
- Modded airbox w/high flow filter. Gave better throttle response than the CAI, but felt restrictive past 6000RPMs.
- K&N SRI. Piece of sh*t. Was nice and loud, but the car drove like a dog on warm-hot days (didn't take long either - maybe around 30-40minutes was enough).

But from what Im reading from other members, it sounds like the icebox is the way to go for my euro - nice and quiet but improves throttle response.

[yfin]

I expect they they are referring to the small hole in the bottom of the air box, it is only say 2% of the size of the opening to the cold air intake pipe, but if thay were to block (by going under water) air would be drawn through the small hole preveting the engine being starved of air to water being drawn in (which I reckon would be very unlikely anyway).

We couldn't find the hole when we installed the Icebox - have you seen it?

[qmjona]

We couldn't find the hole when we installed the Icebox - have you seen it?

I dont have the icebox, but I assumed that it would have the same thing as the original honda air box. The 'hole' is under in the bottom half, under a small raised section right at the bottom, becuase of this if you just look straight down into it you wont see the hole, you would need to look from the side. Does the icebox have something like this? or does it retain the bottom half of the the original air box?

[yfin]

I dont have the icebox, but I assumed that it would have the same thing as the original honda air box. The 'hole' is under in the bottom half, under a small raised section right at the bottom, becuase of this if you just look straight down into it you wont see the hole, you would need to look from the side. Does the icebox have something like this? or does it retain the bottom half of the the original air box?

The Icebox retains the bottom half - I will see if I can find that hole - Nick and I couldn't find it when installing the icebox but like you say we were looking straight down. If you have pics that would help!

This gives me some comfort from hydrolock as the icebox has the lowest air "horn" of all the intake options.

[qmjona]

Its definatly there if you are still using the standard bottom section.
I'll see if I can get a pic tonight, I only noticed it when I had it out, but if you have a good look, you should see it.

edit.
I had a closer look last night, there are actually 2 holes (slits) in the bottom of the airbox. See pic in gallery http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=508/2381euro_air_box_base.jpg
Not sure how much air they would let in if the intake was blocked off - enough I hope.

[Saxphile]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I couldn't find any information on this. I have the Injen RD CAI installed on my Euro. To be safe, I also got the hydroshield and had that put on as well (http://www.injen.com/hydroshield.html).

My question is, how does that affect the car's ability to go through water? I don't regularly drive through a flood or anything, but sometimes 5-10 cm of water after a heavy rainstorm. Also, I once had an experience of having my car towed through a flood zone (with the engine off, of course), now with the Injen CAI, would I still be able to do the same thing?

Last question, how often do I need to change the filter (http://www.injen.com/filters.html)?

[yfin]

My question is, how does that affect the car's ability to go through water? I don't regularly drive through a flood or anything, but sometimes 5-10 cm of water after a heavy rainstorm. Also, I once had an experience of having my car towed through a flood zone (with the engine off, of course), now with the Injen CAI, would I still be able to do the same thing?

It is very hard to find definitive answers or guarantees when it comes to hydrolock. I mean look at this intake - it is a similar design to the Injen and is available for the CL9:

http://www.f5air.com/images/complete_parts/ca1007.JPG

Interestingly the Fujita web site says this:

Fujita Air recommends the removal of the air intake system during any wet conditions

So this manufacturer is sufficiently concerned about hydrolock they tell you to actually remove it. Sure this is more a concern of litigation - but worth noting that even the manufacturers of these intakes know there is a risk.

One option if you are really worried is to install a bypass valve.

ps - I cant see any issue if your car is towed through standing water if the engine is off.

[curik]

Injen SP1431. Its the best intake you can get. Comptech is U$150 and all you get is some cheap plastic tubes and a foam filter. Injen is about U$220 for the SP1431 and U$190 for RD1430 and you get a pod filter that worths about AU130, plus excellent aluminium tubing which can be converted to Short ram or CAI. By the way SP1431 is better since the a/f ratio remains constant, low end loss is also minimal than RD. No need to worry about hydrolock unless you go offroads or through the jungle often.

[yfin]

Injen SP1431. Its the best intake you can get. Comptech is U$150 and all you get is some cheap plastic tubes and a foam filter. Injen is about U$220 for the SP1431 and U$190 for RD1430 and you get a pod filter that worths about AU130, plus excellent aluminium tubing which can be converted to Short ram or CAI. By the way SP1431 is better since the a/f ratio remains constant, low end loss is also minimal than RD. No need to worry about hydrolock unless you go offroads or through the jungle often.
There are pros and cons comparing the Injen to other intakes. For someone like me, I didn't want the significant noise increase with the injen - so it depends on what you are looking for. Some love the sound, others will find it too intrusive. The other thing to keep in mind is the gains with the Injen don't necessarily demonstrate it is noticeably better with 1/4 mile - eg comparing the Injen vs K&N vs Icebox. I am surprised that they are all pretty much the same on the strip.

[curik]

The good thing about the noise it only happens when you step on the gas. cruising below 3000rpm is exactly the same as stock. When you accelerate, noisy? That is the healthy breath of the engine being unleashed! As in for 1/4 miles timing, it wont be needed since you wont do it on public roads.

[EuroAccord13]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I couldn't find any information on this. I have the Injen RD CAI installed on my Euro. To be safe, I also got the hydroshield and had that put on as well (http://www.injen.com/hydroshield.html).

My question is, how does that affect the car's ability to go through water? I don't regularly drive through a flood or anything, but sometimes 5-10 cm of water after a heavy rainstorm. Also, I once had an experience of having my car towed through a flood zone (with the engine off, of course), now with the Injen CAI, would I still be able to do the same thing?

Last question, how often do I need to change the filter (http://www.injen.com/filters.html)?


Injen's Hydoshield or K&N Drycharger is just to prevent splashes of water from entering the filter, it will not stop your car from hydrolock when it is under water..

With going under water, as long as there is still space for air to enter the filter (while submerged), gravity will pull the heavier component which in this case is water.

[Atjo]

How about euro with mugen front bumper, is the chance of having hydrolock greater than stock bumper considering the hole on mugen is bigger.

[EuroAccord13]

How about euro with mugen front bumper, is the chance of having hydrolock greater than stock bumper considering the hole on mugen is bigger.

It doesn't matter what kit the car has, water will always find the fastest and easiest way in (namely from the bottom) into spots where aftermarket CAI filters normally sit...:)

[Saxphile]

Thanks guys. These were very useful information. Although hydrolocking seems unlikely under normal circumstances, I guess it can be an issue for folks living in tropical weather, with all the storms/typhoons/monsoon.

I agree with curik that the Injen is almost stock-like below 3000 rpm, and as long as I stay light-footed around town I don't find it intrusive at all. On an open road, though, that's a difference matter. Suffice to say that it serves as a warning to people about to be passed. I got the RD before the MR series (SP1431?) came out, but had I waited I'd definitely have gotten the MR series. RD does have noticible loss in low end torque, but hey it's a small price to pay.

What about filter replacement? How often should I do it?

[Chris_F]

no need to replace the filter, the k&N filters can last the life-time of the car if you maintain them properly. Every 20-30,000 km or so, just take the filter off and check it... if its looking worse for wear clean it with a K&N recharge kit then re-oil it and your ready to go again

[Saxphile]

no need to replace the filter, the k&N filters can last the life-time of the car if you maintain them properly. Every 20-30,000 km or so, just take the filter off and check it... if its looking worse for wear clean it with a K&N recharge kit then re-oil it and your ready to go again

I'm assuming you're talking about this:

http://www.tsxparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_38&products_id=94

But as I have an Injen, I'd like to know how often I need to replace/clean this:

http://www.tsxparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_38&products_id=70

Thanks!

[aaronng]

I'm assuming you're talking about this:

http://www.tsxparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_38&products_id=94

But as I have an Injen, I'd like to know how often I need to replace/clean this:

http://www.tsxparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_38&products_id=70

Thanks!
I'd follow the same interval as the panel K&N. They both look like oiled cotton filters.

[Chris_F]

^ yep exactly... panel or pod they are made from the same shit... if anything you might have to clean the pod a bit more because it's more exposed.

[stephen8512]

^ as per what chris said

[TEMPTN]

Just how many people take their cars into deep puddles wouldnt u just avoid it in the first place and use some common sense,
By the time u have water in ur CAI and cause hydrolock you will have water in your car already
im pretty sure little bits or water here and there wont cause a hydolock

my 2 cents are it dosent matter what kind of intake you have you wont get a hydrolock unless ur a fool to drive your car in a puddle 1 meter high

[aaronng]

Just how many people take their cars into deep puddles wouldnt u just avoid it in the first place and use some common sense,
By the time u have water in ur CAI and cause hydrolock you will have water in your car already
im pretty sure little bits or water here and there wont cause a hydolock

my 2 cents are it dosent matter what kind of intake you have you wont get a hydrolock unless ur a fool to drive your car in a puddle 1 meter high
It's actually 30cm. But even with a stock car, those who drive through puddles are not too smart. Cold water + hot sump = uneven expansion that leads to either cracking or seal failure. Worse yet is that when the transmission fluid or engine oil in the sump are cooled down very quickly, a temporary vacuum is created inside the case and it draws a little moisure inside if your seals are old/bad. Happened to our old CD accord. After driving through a flood, auto tranny changes were very jerky. Changed the fluid (looked crap, milky) and all was good again.

[TEMPTN]

It's actually 30cm. But even with a stock car, those who drive through puddles are not too smart. Cold water + hot sump = uneven expansion that leads to either cracking or seal failure. Worse yet is that when the transmission fluid or engine oil in the sump are cooled down very quickly, a temporary vacuum is created inside the case and it draws a little moisure inside if your seals are old/bad. Happened to our old CD accord. After driving through a flood, auto tranny changes were very jerky. Changed the fluid (looked crap, milky) and all was good again.

Well wat ever the depth of the water i just used that 1 meter as a example
(im sorry i didnt pulll out a ruler and measure the height of my stock car )

[aaronng]

Well wat ever the depth of the water i just used that 1 meter as a example
(im sorry i didnt pulll out a ruler and measure the height of my stock car )
Nah, not dogging on you. But I agree with what you said. Even with a stock car, it's common sense to avoid deep puddles.

[Ferrarista]

Sorry to bump this guys.

Who here has the comptech icebox? I'm thinking about getting it because it's an enclosed unit which means its legal. When it comes to other emmision laws its the cat that makes the car comply with emmissions. I remember talking to the RTA and they said an exsposed pod means vapours can be released into the atmosphere thats why they are a defect.

What im questioning is the sound, do you get a sound change? Im not after a Injen type sound but some (better) sound would be great, current owners can you notice a difference in sound? Also, what about performace? Is it noticable?

Cheers

[Ferrarista]

Ok i just answered my own question when it comes to power/torque

http://www.comptechusa.com/images/dyno/tsx_icebox.pdf

More curious about sound though

[aaronng]

Ask Bustersonic13, he has the Icebox. I've heard it, it's similar to stock, but at full throttle, the induction noise sounds cleaner. Hard to describe.

[BusterSonic12]

:thumbsup: yep.. totally stock style, but once it hits 6000rpm, VTEC!!!
also it's louder than stock when you full throttle. "Hard to describe.." YEP true... just sweet i reckon.

Thinking of switching the panel filter to ITG filter, hopefully it can increase a bit of gain from it :D



Ask Bustersonic13, he has the Icebox. I've heard it, it's similar to stock, but at full throttle, the induction noise sounds cleaner. Hard to describe.

[sodaz]

It's louder in general, but not by much. When you're at higher revs the difference is quite noticable. Keep in mind that when you remove the resonator you'll get some vibration around 3000rpms.

[BusterSonic12]

after u installed the comptech icebox, the vibration's reduced. if not that noticable at all. Because i remove resonator, drove around for a week or so, then installed it. i m damn happy about it :D


It's louder in general, but not by much. When you're at higher revs the difference is quite noticable. Keep in mind that when you remove the resonator you'll get some vibration around 3000rpms.

[egSi]

just fyi guys, K&N GUARANTEE their CL9 Typhoon Intakes to make more HP ;) :thumbsup:

[sodaz]

just fyi guys, K&N GUARANTEE their CL9 Typhoon Intakes to make more HP ;) :thumbsup:

But it results in more loss of low end torque and some people don't like the risk of hydrolocking their car. The gains are mainly in the top end too.

[Ferrarista]

I ordered the Ice Box, we'll see how it goes

[Ferrarista]

For those who have installed it on a 03-05 Euro did you remove the front bar?

[aaronng]

For those who have installed it on a 03-05 Euro did you remove the front bar?
If you have fog lights, you need to remove the front bar. Otherwise you can be a contortionist and remove the 3rd bolt through the fog light cover.

[Ferrarista]

If you have fog lights, you need to remove the front bar. Otherwise you can be a contortionist and remove the 3rd bolt through the fog light cover.
Looks like im removing the bar then :(

Thanks!

[EuroAccord13]

Guys!! It's really not that hard to remove that third bolt, a 10mm spanner will do the job via the bottom of the bumper (If memory serves me right).. It's only about 1/5 turn at a time but hell it beats spending all that time to remove and put back a bumper...

[Ferrarista]

Guys!! It's really not that hard to remove that third bolt, a 10mm spanner will do the job via the bottom of the bumper (If memory serves me right).. It's only about 1/5 turn at a time but hell it beats spending all that time to remove and put back a bumper...
You wouldnt have a guide or anything like that?

[aaronng]

You wouldnt have a guide or anything like that?
It's easy. Just 4 screws at the bottom, all the clips at the top and bottom. Pull the side of the bumper that is next to the wheel first. Pull it outwards for both side. Once that is out, you pull the front of the bumper forward starting at the headlights, with even force so that the bumper slides off the hooks. Get a friend to help you support the bumper because there is tubing for your headlight washers as well as wiring for the foglights.

Just remember that there are at least 3 different types of clips, so make sure you group them correctly and reinstall them in the right locations.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5333/bumperremovalga3.gif

[BusterSonic12]

i done a DIY on this before. follow the steps :D

[Ferrarista]

It's easy. Just 4 screws at the bottom, all the clips at the top and bottom. Pull the side of the bumper that is next to the wheel first. Pull it outwards for both side. Once that is out, you pull the front of the bumper forward starting at the headlights, with even force so that the bumper slides off the hooks. Get a friend to help you support the bumper because there is tubing for your headlight washers as well as wiring for the foglights.

Just remember that there are at least 3 different types of clips, so make sure you group them correctly and reinstall them in the right locations.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5333/bumperremovalga3.gif
Thanks, i've removed the bar before to install the fog lamps.

I was more interested if in removing the resinator, if anyone knows where the bolts are to see if i can get away with not taking the bar off

[aaronng]

There is a bolt at the front, that you can't get to if you have fog lights.

[enkay]

hm is there a way to reach it without removing bumper? wat if i had a L shaped wrench or sumthing?

[aaronng]

hm is there a way to reach it without removing bumper? wat if i had a L shaped wrench or sumthing?
If you have a 03-05 standard Euro without foglights, then yes, you can reach it without removing the bumper. You just need to use a 1/4" drive ratchet with the right sized socket (10mm)

[enkay]

hm i got 04 .. but with foglights.. i forgot to mention that..

[aaronng]

hm i got 04 .. but with foglights.. i forgot to mention that..
Bumper off for you, unless you can reach inside from peeling off the undertray where it meets the bumper and remove that single bolt that holds the left foglight to the bumper.

[Ferrarista]

You definatly need to take the bumper bar off

I installed my Icebox tonight and it would have been inpossible (well damn damn long and hard) to do it without the bar off

[sodaz]

You definatly need to take the bumper bar off

I installed my Icebox tonight and it would have been inpossible (well damn damn long and hard) to do it without the bar off

What's your impression of it?

[BusterSonic12]

You definatly need to take the bumper bar off

I installed my Icebox tonight and it would have been inpossible (well damn damn long and hard) to do it without the bar off


got it already??? and u ordered last friday.... JES!! i had to wait for 1-2 week for mine

[Ferrarista]

got it already??? and u ordered last friday.... JES!! i had to wait for 1-2 week for mine
Yeah i was amazed, it took 5 days to get which 2 were a weekend :D :D :D

Impressions? Its exactly what i wanted. Its enclosed so i can get away with it being legal. When driving normal you cant hear it at all, but you start hitting the throttle and you can hear a very nice induction sound and it spins so much better aswell. When you see how much piping crap Honda put in it you'll soon understand how much more you can get out of it but just taking it out.

[BusterSonic12]

:p good to hear that u like it :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
your first performance mod?


Yeah i was amazed, it took 5 days to get which 2 were a weekend :D :D :D

Impressions? Its exactly what i wanted. Its enclosed so i can get away with it being legal. When driving normal you cant hear it at all, but you start hitting the throttle and you can hear a very nice induction sound and it spins so much better aswell. When you see how much piping crap Honda put in it you'll soon understand how much more you can get out of it but just taking it out.

[Ferrarista]

:p good to hear that u like it :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
your first performance mod?
Yup

But now im worrying over hydrolock because the pipe sits rather low in the bar...

[corn_flakes]

Yup

But now im worrying over hydrolock because the pipe sits rather low in the bar...


welcome to the hydrolock paranoia group...

hence my injen is still a SRI....

[as001]

Hey Ferrarista,
Just take off the comptech pipe if your worried about hyro lock should still perform as well


Yup

But now im worrying over hydrolock because the pipe sits rather low in the bar...

[enkay]

oo i know u should just cover the pipe if your afraid of hydro! JOKES.. man i want an intake!

[yfin]

Yup

But now im worrying over hydrolock because the pipe sits rather low in the bar...

Highly unlikely as the Icebox retains the lower portion of the intake box - there are some small holes there that allow the engine to breathe if the intake tract is blocked.

[yourfather]

if you dont wanna hydrolock your car, just dont drive your car in rivers. duh.

[Chris_F]

Highly unlikely as the Icebox retains the lower portion of the intake box - there are some small holes there that allow the engine to breathe if the intake tract is blocked.

exactly what i was gonna say... you shouldnt have to worry about hydrolocking with the icebox

[Ferrarista]

Thanks guys, it makes sense

[enkay]

but i like driving underwater!

[Entity]

which one sounds better though? the injen or the k&n?

[aaronng]

I couldn't really tell the difference between the 2. Could someone post up a vid taken with a proper video camera and the audio compressed to 128kbps mp3?

[martizzle]

where do i buy a comptech ice box in melbourne, or anywhere else that is not too pricey?

[BusterSonic12]

got mine from ebay, damn good and fast :D

[Ferrarista]

where do i buy a comptech ice box in melbourne, or anywhere else that is not too pricey?
Buy it off this guy, dont even bother looking around

http://stores.ebay.com/Acura-of-Escondido-Parts_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZ1QQfsubZQ2d999QQftidZ2QQtZkm

I got mine in 5 days (2 of which were a weekend), delivered with a extra set of cleaners for $290 to my door.

[BusterSonic12]

yep great guy, but forgot to get myself a set of cleaner, so no cleaner now :( need to get some later

[BusterSonic12]

just wondering...
the mugen intake, i never seen it except for the CF cover thingo. is it a airbox like comptech?? or is it some other form of air intake?

[aaronng]

just wondering...
the mugen intake, i never seen it except for the CF cover thingo. is it a airbox like comptech?? or is it some other form of air intake?
It's like the comptech, except that it's made from CF and slightly larger.

[BusterSonic12]

oh okok, just wondering :D thanks for the info


It's like the comptech, except that it's made from CF and slightly larger.

[free2d]

Anyone know which brand of filter element give the best airflow and dirt filtration?

[BusterSonic12]

i heard it's ITG racing air filter, or something. correct me if i m wrong.
i been thinking of putting one in my comptech

[sodaz]

i heard it's ITG racing air filter, or something. correct me if i m wrong.
i been thinking of putting one in my comptech

I've got one in my Icebox right now and it's great for dust filtration because it's got 3 layers of foam but in terms of airflow it's really quite average.

[BusterSonic12]

I've got one in my Icebox right now and it's great for dust filtration because it's got 3 layers of foam but in terms of airflow it's really quite average.

oh... so fast LOL can u feel any gain? also i heard the filter doesn't fit 100%? so what u do to it?

[sodaz]

oh... so fast LOL can u feel any gain? also i heard the filter doesn't fit 100%? so what u do to it?
The filter fits the icebox pretty well. But i got some sealing strips from my friend who is an air conditioning engineer so now it's a perfect fit. The first 15 minutes of driving you feel a very slightly gain in power. But after that it kinda goes downhill. The throttle response becomes a bit more sluggish.

My theory is that the ITG filter does not allow a steady flow of cool air to enter the icebox and therefore the airbox becomes warmer and warmer inside which results in a slight loss of power over time. I've used a hair drier to test airflow and the stock filter is pretty good, the icebox foam filter is close, but the ITG filter almost has no airflow going through it.

[aaronng]

I wonder if Apexi makes a panel filter for the Euro. I can only find part numbers for the Elyssion and Odyssey's k24a. The engine bay layout might be different and not fit in the Euro's airbox.

[BusterSonic12]

The filter fits the icebox pretty well. But i got some sealing strips from my friend who is an air conditioning engineer so now it's a perfect fit. The first 15 minutes of driving you feel a very slightly gain in power. But after that it kinda goes downhill. The throttle response becomes a bit more sluggish.

My theory is that the ITG filter does not allow a steady flow of cool air to enter the icebox and therefore the airbox becomes warmer and warmer inside which results in a slight loss of power over time. I've used a hair drier to test airflow and the stock filter is pretty good, the icebox foam filter is close, but the ITG filter almost has no airflow going through it.

then why you using it if there's less airflow... and doesn't it means decrease in power. then why u keeping it?

[yfin]

The filter fits the icebox pretty well. But i got some sealing strips from my friend who is an air conditioning engineer so now it's a perfect fit. The first 15 minutes of driving you feel a very slightly gain in power. But after that it kinda goes downhill. The throttle response becomes a bit more sluggish.

My theory is that the ITG filter does not allow a steady flow of cool air to enter the icebox and therefore the airbox becomes warmer and warmer inside which results in a slight loss of power over time. I've used a hair drier to test airflow and the stock filter is pretty good, the icebox foam filter is close, but the ITG filter almost has no airflow going through it.

Strange I have never noticed this heat soak problem. Not so sure about this hair dryer test either :D Perhaps you should send your results to the various F1 teams and McLaren using the ITG filter - tell them the stock Honda filter is better. Joke joke.

But seriously, the ITG's party trick is the ability to flow well when it is loaded up with dust and rubbish. As for maximum flow when a filter is clean - of course the thin Unifilter is going to be better. That is because it is thinner than my little finger. What sort of protection is that giving from tiny particles? For protecting your engine the ITG is excellent. ITG claim to provide filtration in the harmful 10 to 20 micron range. They say that the best cotton gauze can not filter below 20 micron and that claim appears to be supported if you search the web. So you decide what you would prefer - 100% maximum power or a compromise that protects the engine as well.

I didn't go for the ITG to gain power. I didn't lose power but not everything is about power. Once I saw the ITG filter compared to the Unifilter it was a no brainer. Yes it is as thick as a brick but gee that is fine by me when it comes to protecting the engine.

Did you happen to add oil to your ITG filter by any chance before install? They come pre-oiled so hopefully you didn't touch it.

[sodaz]

then why you using it if there's less airflow... and doesn't it means decrease in power. then why u keeping it?

I'm using it because i spent the money to buy it in a way. It produces a louder engine note too which is a plus as it masks the vibration noises you get with the icebox.

[sodaz]

Strange I have never noticed this heat soak problem. Not so sure about this hair dryer test either :D Perhaps you should send your results to the various F1 teams and McLaren using the ITG filter - tell them the stock Honda filter is better. Joke joke.

But seriously, the ITG's party trick is the ability to flow well when it is loaded up with dust and rubbish. As for maximum flow when a filter is clean - of course the thin Unifilter is going to be better. That is because it is thinner than my little finger. What sort of protection is that giving from tiny particles? For protecting your engine the ITG is excellent. ITG claim to provide filtration in the harmful 10 to 20 micron range. They say that the best cotton gauze can not filter below 20 micron and that claim appears to be supported if you search the web. So you decide what you would prefer - 100% maximum power or a compromise that protects the engine as well.

I didn't go for the ITG to gain power. I didn't lose power but not everything is about power. Once I saw the ITG filter compared to the Unifilter it was a no brainer. Yes it is as thick as a brick but gee that is fine by me when it comes to protecting the engine.

Did you happen to add oil to your ITG filter by any chance before install? They come pre-oiled so hopefully you didn't touch it.
Thanks for your input.

My hairdryer test is not a very scientific test of course. I've shown the ITG filter to an engineering friend of mine and he also said that the filter will have less airflow. I know that ITG produces filters for F1 cars, but that doesn't mean they use the same design for these filters. I'm pretty sure my car shares nothing with an F1 car, despite what all the Honda ads say. :D

The stock filter is even thinner than the uni filter and your engine won't run into problems using it. Added protection is always welcome but there's a point when it becomes overkill. Personally i'd rather have more power and clean the filter more often.

No, I didn't add any oil to the filter.

[yfin]

You must be kidding me. The stock filter is not thinner than the foam uni filter.

As for cleaning the filter "more often" that is flawed thinking as the problem with the unifilter is filtration is so weak particles are actually flowing through to the engine.

[sodaz]

You must be kidding me. The stock filter is not thinner than the foam uni filter.

As for cleaning the filter "more often" that is flawed thinking as the problem with the unifilter is filtration is so weak particles are actually flowing through to the engine.

Yes the stock filter is in fact thinner than the foam filter, it just looks thicker because it's pleated to increase the surface area. The uni filter's definitely not the best when it comes to filtration but i'm pretty sure you won't have any engine problems provided that you maintain it. I'm still using the ITG, but imo it's overkill as a filter.

[yfin]

Yes the stock filter is in fact thinner than the foam filter, it just looks thicker because it's pleated to increase the surface area. The uni filter's definitely not the best when it comes to filtration but i'm pretty sure you won't have any engine problems provided that you maintain it. I'm still using the ITG, but imo it's overkill as a filter.

Ah, I see what you are saying. I am talking more about the dimensions of the filter as in thickness. You can't compare the filtration ability of the OEM filter and the Unifilter though as the OEM is using multiple layers of paper (not sure how many) vs one thin layer of foam. As for not having engine problems - maybe you are right (assuming people with that filter change their engine oil very often). Time will tell I think.

[Entity]

the thing is, i've been in a euro with the INJEN and i couldn't even tell a difference until it hit 5k...

is that the same with the k&n?

[aaronng]

the thing is, i've been in a euro with the INJEN and i couldn't even tell a difference until it hit 5k...

is that the same with the k&n?
That's how CAIs are. They sacrifice a little bit of low RPM torque, have similar midrange and then give you a nice bump at the top.

BTW, an update with my intake with the airbox, it's SUPERB! I feel a gain through the midrange and highend. My butt is pretty numb, so if I can feel something, there might be a numerical gain.

[Chris_F]

good stuff aaron.. well shielded short rams get my vote too

[sodaz]

That's how CAIs are. They sacrifice a little bit of low RPM torque, have similar midrange and then give you a nice bump at the top.

BTW, an update with my intake with the airbox, it's SUPERB! I feel a gain through the midrange and highend. My butt is pretty numb, so if I can feel something, there might be a numerical gain.

Mate, you know the rules...

PICS OR BAN!!! :cool:

[Entity]

is just opening the lid an option for euros? i had a look and it seems like it will dislodge the down pipe..

[aaronng]

is just opening the lid an option for euros? i had a look and it seems like it will dislodge the down pipe..
Not an option unless you glue/clip the filter to the top half of the cover.

[aaronng]

Mate, you know the rules...

PICS OR BAN!!! :cool:
LOL, I'll be the one doing the banning. It's still work in progress. Today I insulated the airbox with 1.5mm thick rubber sheets. Engine coolant is lower by 3ºC now when cruising, so I assume intake air temperature has dropped significantly. Still waiting on my OBD II scanner to arrive so I can get IAT numbers.

Next step is to do routing for the air from the bumper to the airbox. THen a nice spray to black. Watch out for a DIY.

[sodaz]

LOL, I'll be the one doing the banning. It's still work in progress. Today I insulated the airbox with 1.5mm thick rubber sheets. Engine coolant is lower by 3ºC now when cruising, so I assume intake air temperature has dropped significantly. Still waiting on my OBD II scanner to arrive so I can get IAT numbers.

Next step is to do routing for the air from the bumper to the airbox. THen a nice spray to black. Watch out for a DIY.

Sounds great. Can't wait for the DIY later. :thumbsup:

[aaronng]

Sounds great. Can't wait for the DIY later. :thumbsup:
Here you go: http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53595

[sodaz]

Here you go: http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53595

Sweet. Thanks mate!

[cdjhitman]

guys i know this might sound dumb but wat is hydro locking???

[yfin]

guys i know this might sound dumb but wat is hydro locking???

here you go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock

"In automotive terminology, a hydrolock is the immobilization of an engine's pistons by a liquid (usually water, hence the prefix "hydro-"). Hydrolocking occurs when liquid fills a cylinder on the intake stroke and, due to the incompressibility of a liquid, makes the compression stroke impossible. This, in turn, prevents the entire engine from turning, and can cause significant engine damage if one attempts to forcibly turn over or start the engine. Hydrolocking is often a concern when consumers modify their engines with aftermarket intake systems (e.g. Cold air intake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_air_intake)). A cold air intake typically locates the filter near the bottom of the engine compartment to gain access to colder air, which can also increase its chances of ingesting water should it be submerged.
Another reason for it to occur is in the event of the head gasket cracking or "blowing", which causes the radiator coolant to mix inside the combustion chamber."

[cdjhitman]

:thumbsup: cheers yfin hahaha

[martizzle]

so arrong's euro is stock just apart from that air filter / mi goreng box / alum tube intake ?

btw great job

[yfin]

so arrong's euro is stock just apart from that air filter / mi goreng box / alum tube intake ?

btw great job

minus resonator of course

[Atjo]

I have injen CAI and my mugen bumper is being resprayed now so i put the stock bumper for 1 week. Do i need to put a pipe so the air can flow to the CAI or i can leave it as it is?

[martizzle]

so how much did the resonator cost, after reading all the threads, it sound like a really good mod to do. you get the benifits of both sri and cai... is that right??

[aaronng]

minus resonator of course
Intake resonator. hehe... just in case people get confused.

[aaronng]

I have injen CAI and my mugen bumper is being resprayed now so i put the stock bumper for 1 week. Do i need to put a pipe so the air can flow to the CAI or i can leave it as it is?
You don't need to. But you can always pull off the left foglight cover if you have an 03-05 Euro without foglights.

[aaronng]

so how much did the resonator cost, after reading all the threads, it sound like a really good mod to do. you get the benifits of both sri and cai... is that right??
Hmm, the intake resonator is a stock part on the Euro and it is removed to get more noise than stock.

[yfin]

Saw this on Acurazine... Dynos of the Icebox vs Injen on the same car and same dyno.... Not so long ago I read posts where people would say the Icebox was a waste of time compared to the Injen (what was that based on - noise levels?). Have a look at the pros and cons of each on the curve.

Source: http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34815

***********
Originally Posted by Asahi
Ok, here is what I got. I ran the car bone stock with 4000 miles on it. I had not changed anything in anticipation of trying this test. I bought a brand new Injen (2 piece; cold air) and new Icebox to test. This testing was all done on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno so please don't fixate on the actual values but instead the graphs and actual gains and area under the curves.

This test is on a 100% stock 2005 TSX with nothing changed except the Intake

I will say these are not the results I expected.

What I found was that the Comptech actually made a measurable amount of power at 2500 rpms, the Injen had the midrange power around 3500-4800 and then Comptech edged out the numbers again.

None of these numbers wth an intake alone will set the world on fire or make a big difference based on the weight of the car. I'd guess Hondata will be the biggest single seat of the pants mod and as soon as it is released for 2005's I'll test it.

On to the graphs . . . (Stock = 2, Comptech = 8, Injen = 12)

Stock: (Dyno Dynamics is easily 12%-15% lower than a dynojet)

http://sorbachattanooga.org/pictures/trey/TSX/EPSON005.JPG


Stock vs. Comptech:
Notice the throttle response gain down low. With measurable gains everywhere under the curve after 3600rpm.

http://sorbachattanooga.org/pictures/trey/TSX/EPSON003.JPG



Stock vs Injen:
The Injen made tons of midrange and even some up top but note the slight drop at about 2700

http://sorbachattanooga.org/pictures/trey/TSX/EPSON002.JPG


Comptech vs. Injen:
The one you guys are probably waiting for . . . Notice the gain at 2700 from the Comptech, then the Injen makes more power from 3300 rpm to 4800 rpm then the Comptech makes more power to redline.

http://sorbachattanooga.org/pictures/trey/TSX/EPSON001.JPG

Stock vs Comptech vs Injen:
Both Intakes made power over stock. I kept the Comptech cause it's throttle response was better, it's midrange was good and it's upper end was a lot better than the Injen I tested. The Injen did have more midrange but the amount of power difference was smaller and over all area under the curve went to the Comptech


http://sorbachattanooga.org/pictures/trey/TSX/EPSON004.JPG

[aaronng]

Yfin, the TSX and Euro's ECU takes a while to optimise the A/F ratio for the new airflow. vtec.net found that out when testing the AEM SRI on their TSX. After 2 runs, they kept getting increasing readings, so they allows the car to cruise on the rollers for a few minutes (was it 10 minutes?) before testing again. I doubt this poster actually allowed the ECU to optimise the A/F ratio before testing the intakes.



There weren't any heat soak issues.

We did about 3 runs per setup to verify and stabilize operating temps. There was about 30 minutes between setups while I changed intakes and reset he ECU and then the same 3-4 runs were made to get to operating temps. Would have been more likely to make a run too cool with the downtime between runs but we took that into account.
He had reset the ECU for each intake. So he would need much more than just 3 runs to get the ECU to optimise for the intake. I'd take his results with a pinch of salt because I doubt that the engine was operating with proper optimisation for maximum performance gain.

[yfin]

Yfin, the TSX and Euro's ECU takes a while to optimise the A/F ratio for the new airflow. vtec.net found that out when testing the AEM SRI on their TSX. After 2 runs, they kept getting increasing readings, so they allows the car to cruise on the rollers for a few minutes (was it 10 minutes?) before testing again. I doubt this poster actually allowed the ECU to optimise the A/F ratio before testing the intakes.

He had reset the ECU for each intake. So he would need much more than just 3 runs to get the ECU to optimise for the intake. I'd take his results with a pinch of salt because I doubt that the engine was operating with proper optimisation for maximum performance gain.

Tell me Aaron, when is there ever perfect testing conditions? :) There will always be some testing variance someone can point to - whether it is the way the car is set up on the dyno by the operator, to the ambient air temperature, etc. At least in this test it is the same car on the same dyno.

As far as I am concerned both intakes were subject to similar conditions (he says "numerous" runs after a reset ECU). Post #38 - http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25092&page=2&pp=25

Both showed gains over baseline. If there was a disadvantage to be suffered you could say it applied to both intakes.

As you know - people on this and other forums compare dyno numbers for the CL9 and they are not even on the same dyno. I would say those comparisons should be treated with a pinch of salt. This one has some credibilty. At least this tester used the same car on the same dyno on the same day. He also says he has tuned dozens of Hondas and dynoed over 200 cars on that dyno so he is no noob (well apparently not anyway :) ).

The purpose of my post was not to show the Icebox making 1 measly hp more at peak. That difference is meaningless on the road. The moral of the story as I see it is that the CAI options for the CL9 appear to be similar in gains (but definately not acoustics). None of them stand out above all others as providing significantly more power than the other but there are some differences in the curves that are worth noting (the injen low rev dip for one - no one wants to see a mod cause a drop below base line).

[sodaz]

I've got the comptech icebox myself and i've driven my mate's Euro that has the Injen Cai. The low rev response is not good but my butt dyno tells me that the Injen produces more power in the upper rev range than the Icebox. It's significantly louder too.

[aaronng]

Tell me Aaron, when is there ever perfect testing conditions? :) There will always be some testing variance someone can point to - whether it is the way the car is set up on the dyno by the operator, to the ambient air temperature, etc. At least in this test it is the same car on the same dyno.
Same car on the same dyno is sometimes not enough when you are trying to get the true comparison between parts. I'm just saying that in order to show the potential gains a mod can provide, the testing procedure should have been more rigorous so that the maximum possible gain of each intake could be exposed. In my opinion he should have let the car run on the rollers for a longer period in order to get a better measurement after the ECU has optimised A/F ratios.



As far as I am concerned both intakes were subject to similar conditions (he says "numerous" runs after a reset ECU). Post #38 - http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25092&page=2&pp=25
Same thread, post #28 from 2005 when he originally did the test. He said that he did 3-4 runs per intake to get up to temp before doing a reading.



Both showed gains over baseline. If there was a disadvantage to be suffered you could say it applied to both intakes.
True, unless of course the CAI allowed more air in at WOT high RPM and the ECU needed more iterations to optimise when compared to the Icebox. That's my concern, that the ECU was not allowed enough running time to optimise for the intakes.



As you know - people on this and other forums compare dyno numbers for the CL9 and they are not even on the same dyno. I would say those comparisons should be treated with a pinch of salt. This one has some credibilty. At least this tester used the same car on the same dyno on the same day. He also says he has tuned dozens of Hondas and dynoed over 200 cars on that dyno so he is no noob (well apparently not anyway :) ).
Comparing cars and comparing parts are different because with cars, it is about the package. It is already optimised and ready to go. When swapping parts on one same car, you need to allow ECU to optimise. Just like having mods and a piggyback on a car, but not properly tuning it would give different results compared to if you did.



The purpose of my post was not to show the Icebox making 1 measly hp more at peak. That difference is meaningless on the road. The moral of the story as I see it is that the CAI options for the CL9 appear to be similar in gains (but definately not acoustics). None of them stand out above all others as providing significantly more power than the other but there are some differences in the curves that are worth noting (the injen low rev dip for one - no one wants to see a mod cause a drop below base line).
In my opinion, the Icebox is a good design as even Spoon and Mugen make a similar style intake. None of the Japanese brands tend to go for CAI. That should account for something.

Anyway, I'm just nitpicking over the guy's procedure. I'm anal about those things. :)

[yfin]

I've got the comptech icebox myself and i've driven my mate's Euro that has the Injen Cai. The low rev response is not good but my butt dyno tells me that the Injen produces more power in the upper rev range than the Icebox. It's significantly louder too.

The Injen and K&N make a lot of noise at the 6000rpm switch. Unbelievable noise really.

[Chris_F]

aaronng, and yfin you've both made some really good points.

I agree that the testing procedures weren't ideal but they also provide the best data for comparison ive seen to date.

If anything it goes to show that the icebox and similar designs are well optimised for power across a long duration of the powerband where the injen will likely be more peaky.

[aaronng]

The Injen and K&N make a lot of noise at the 6000rpm switch. Unbelievable noise really.
Is it as loud as SRI? I cover my ears at 4000rpm.

[EuroAccord13]

Is it as loud as SRI? I cover my ears at 4000rpm.

I've tried both the SRI and CAI on the K&N Typhoon kit, the SRI is definitely louder than the CAI...

[sodaz]

Indeed SRI is fricken loud. Too loud imo.

[BiLL|z0r]

Does an Icebox come with a filter or is it seperate. Also does the K&N panel fit in the Icebox or is it totally different shape?

[aaronng]

Does an Icebox come with a filter or is it seperate. Also does the K&N panel fit in the Icebox or is it totally different shape?

It comes with a foam filter. The K&N filter fits but there are small gaps in between the filter and the airbox. You just need to add some rubber strips to make it seal well.

[EuroAccord13]

It comes with a foam filter. The K&N filter fits but there are small gaps in between the filter and the airbox. You just need to add some rubber strips to make it seal well.

I believe the sames goes to the ITG filter as well..

[yfin]

I believe the sames goes to the ITG filter as well..

Yeah, this whole "seal issue" is not so much an issue with the filters - it is more to do with the lid of the icebox. All of the filters fit the bottom of the OEM box fine. The problem is the Icebox lid doesn't form a perfect seal when it is placed on the bottom of the stock lid. That is the case whether you use the filter that comes with the Icebox, K&N or ITG. Same same... It lets in a tiny bit of air from the engine bay (not much - only a tiny amount). Because it is unfiltered air it should be dealt with though. Either use weatherstrips to improve the seal or glue a plastic stencil onto the lid (preferred). I don't trust myself for DIY when it comes to intakes so I just paid $30 for someone to glue a plastic stencil to the lid. One of these days I will post up some photos as it is hard to explain.

[Entity]

didn't wanna start a new thread, and didn't know if this was the right one to ask, but where can i source an INJEN sp1431?

i can't get over the unique sound when you initially step on the throttle... for those who don't know what i'm talking about check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHuu8pvANYY

its insane! and i've heard other intakes including the INJEN RD and K&N.. they sound nice, but got nothing on the SP1431.

[Saxphile]

Got my RD1430 from here: http://www.tsxparts.com/

Hope that helps.

[Entity]

Got my RD1430 from here: http://www.tsxparts.com/

Hope that helps.

i'd prefer something in australia so i dont pay an arm and a leg for shipping.. incidently, how much was shipping for you?

[aaronng]

One of the traders here sell it: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45756

None in stock at the moment, so PM him if he is willing to order one in.

[Chris_F]

the k&n CAI can also be had for $100 less - worth considering

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44581