PDA

View Full Version : Turbo kit Quote for LS Teg....



LO_N_SXC
11-05-2005, 11:22 AM
Hi
I just recently sent an e-mail to a workshop in NSW for a Turbo kit for my B18B powered LS, I asked them for further details on the kit, and I have just gotten back a reply and goes something like this:
Thank you for your interest in Honda Turbo Kit.
Due to large number of enquiries and Australian-wide orders, we apologize for the delay in replying to your request.

1: What Trim/AR is the Turbo?
Check below

2: Proximately at what Rev range will this kit start making power?
Around 2500Rpm

3: Does the kit include a waste gate? and if so what brand is it?
yes. 35m Xspower Made in USA

4: Are this kits fully engineered?
YES

5: Would there be any problems with the EPA?
Check with state law

6: Does the dump pipe bolt on to the original Catalyst?
Of course not, this is a conversion from NA – Turbocharged However, we will supply the flange adaptor for free

7: How much would shipping cost to Melbourne?
Depends on ur package size. MAX with insurance = $50.00

8: Would I still be able to retain the air conditioning?
Kit No.1 Yes. Kit No.2 No


Briefly, the kit No.1 comes with:

Super T03 Stage 3 Turbocharger

Stainless Steel manifold

35mm wastegate

Downpipe

90-degree elbow

Turbo accessories (Oil return/feed line braided, flanges)

Total Price = $1850.00



Complete Honda Turbo kit No.2 (w/intercooler)

Garrett T3 turbocharger
.42 A/R
.48 EXHAUST

.50 STAGE iii WHEEL
GARRETT HYBRID
GARRETT INTERNALS

(1) SUPER RACE TURBO MANIFOLD
STAINLESS STEEL

( Hand made tig )

(1) Full set of TIG Welded Complete (3) piece 2.5" charge piping.
(1) WASTEGATE DUMPTUBE

(1) SUPER 38MM WASTEGATE

(1) SUPER RFL BOV

(1) SET DOHC CAM GEARS - B 16 / B18

(1) SET SUPER LIGHTWEIGHT ALT / P.S PULLEY SET
INCLUDES NEW BELTS ALSO

(1) SUPER 680mm X 460mm X 180mm INTERCOOLER

Total price $2600.00

Wanted to know what you guys think of this and if it is worth doing? I will be doing all of the fiting of the kit my self since I used to be a Mechanic, but the one more thing in the back of my mind is if I need a chip/ecu or a piggyback? and what should I get?

Cheers!

Alex.

BLKCRX
11-05-2005, 01:46 PM
Three VERY Important factors when designing a turbo kit





Like anything you get what you pay for.

Turbo kit design relies on 3 very very important factors. (Taken from a review I wrote up on www.hondatech.com.au (http://www.hondatech.com.au/))



http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=272#post272


No1 the Turbo,

This is what will 1000% decide how much power you MAKE or don’t make power. If the turbo is not suited for the application you will not make the most efficient power. This is one of the internets biggest Myth. Turbo no A (Size what eva) vs Turbo no B (perfectly designed for the setup) at the Same boost level WILL make massive differences in power… everyone thinks that 6.5 psi vs another 6.5psi setup will make the same power… this is total crap.

Having said that iv designed, tuned, owned and recommended countless turbo setups thought-out the years, iv tuned turbo kits where the turbo lasts for 30 seconds driving from the workshop down the road… bang broken turbo ( due to CHEAP Asian unbalanced turbo’s) iv seen countless t3/t4 turbo not respond and not make power, hell I even owned one as my 1st turbo yrs ago. Design of the turbo, how much air it flows, its compression / efficiency maps is what is important, not how much boost you run.



Having said all of that I can quite clearly say the turbo’s they have both recommended in both kits do not suit the application for maximum power, there cheap nasty commons man’s turbos. Yes they will work, yes they will make boost, yes they will make power, but there is much better options out there now a days. The turbo’s they have recommended is 5 yr old + technology, although you would struggle 2 find a turbo I would recommend for under $2000 alone for the turbo.

I always pose this question to all my clients… why not spend 1000$ or more on a perfectly matched turbo and sell the shitty turbo, which will last longer and make way more power, ie here’s a example I tuned 2 b16 civics last week, one in Melb one in NSW, both guys were friends.. and imported this “kit” who’s name I won’t mention from the USA. The NSW guy used the standard turbo with the kit, as he didn’t want to spend any more money. The client in Melbourne upgraded his turbo to a turbo I recommended and designed for him. Both setups are running 7psi. The NSW car makes 120kw and the Vic car makes 190kw the only difference is the turbo and the Vic car is lightening to drive.



No2 the Manifold Design

Again this comes back to flow, just like in a NA car, some headers work.. some don’t.

Iv tuned owned and tested many turbo manifolds, by far the best manifold iv ever seen made are from a good friend of mine geoff from full race in the USA, but his manifolds are 1100$US + which works out to be like $2200 – $2800 once lanced here in aust (dependent on tax gst and shipping) And yes I still use his manifolds, geoff over the years has made many manifolds, which iv used, and the design keeps improving. Again on my car I picked up over 60kw just from changing manifold design on the same boost level.



The material the manifold is also made out of plays a huge roll in reliability, again iv seen manifolds last for 30min on the dyno before cracking… due to cheap nasty materials and shitty welding / design.





No3 the wastegate

Wastegate, I only trust well named brands like Tial and HKS. NEVER use a copy !! or cheap wastgate. The wastegate regulations how much boost is made from the turbo, usually bleed off from all 4 runners on a turbo manifold. Not regulating boost absolutely will result in boost creep, (boost leaking out to early thus lake of power) or boost spiking making to much boost and over boosting and destroying your engine. I would never risk using any cheap wastegate.



The above 3 items are the critical parts of a turbo kit, the intercooler, size of cooler pipes, exhaust size, filter type etc also plays important rolls on how much power you make, but not as much as the three items mentioned above. The above 3 items also are the most expensive part of any turbo kit, skimp on these parts and you skimp on everything, power money and reliability. But to sum everything up you get what you pay for. Period.



Don’t forget about your fueling system, a set of 440 or 550cc injectors, with a nice spray pattern, to atomize the fuel nicely and a fuel pump, your stock fuel regulator will be fine for almost any boost application under 12psi, along with what you have already mentioned engine management… I think everyone already knows the only ECU I recommend ;-)



The install is a piece of cake, you should be able to do it with your eyes closed if you have mechanical skills… but don’t be a retard and cut your front bar reinforcement to make your intercooler fit, instead modify and it and STRENGTHEN it with something like steal rod… I see way to many shitty installed turbo kits with NO front end support… a shitty plastic bumper won’t do shit if you run into something.



As for the cam gears.. meh use stock !!! you won’t need to dial out any valve overlap.. iv done lots of testing on low boost setups with gears with stock cams on b16a b18b and b18c engines… cam gears only come truly into play when you start changing your cams…. and I bet the ones they supply in kit no2 are cheap n nasty… again I refuse to use any none name branded / trusted parts.



Hope that helps.



Regards James

poid
11-05-2005, 07:21 PM
from the description that just about sounds like an ss autochrome turbo kit. If it is, stay WELL away

Weq
11-05-2005, 07:27 PM
lol i can tell smell a ssautocrhome kit miles away.. say no and never look back!!

BiGANG
11-05-2005, 10:11 PM
so how do u know what turbo is good for what setup, is it a matter of experience or is there some kind of graph you can look at?

BLKCRX
11-05-2005, 10:30 PM
experience

BiGANG
11-05-2005, 10:35 PM
so would there be any kits you would recommend that have a turbo that is suited for a stock internal dc2r motor? or just go get a custom jobbie done.?

shecomb
12-05-2005, 08:00 AM
Custom will take longer and may cost more initially.... but when finished you will be very glad you didn't go for a kit.

LO_N_SXC
12-05-2005, 08:09 AM
I have been contemplating on getting a AVO manifold and then bolting up a turbo that can match what I want out of the car and reliable power, all of other thing like the cooler and so on shouldn't be a problem, the main or hardest bit for me would have to be finding a Manifold to suit and like BLKCRX has directed me to These guys (http://www.full-race.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_22) looks like I will be buying the manifold first of all things and go from there! see Hoe I go.....

MR-VTEC
12-05-2005, 08:15 AM
. Both setups are running 7psi. The NSW car makes 120kw and the Vic car makes 190kw.
Regards James

you got 190kw out of a b16a on 7psi:!:

poid
12-05-2005, 09:45 AM
so how do u know what turbo is good for what setup, is it a matter of experience or is there some kind of graph you can look at?

reading compressor maps helps a lot

Weq
12-05-2005, 05:11 PM
if u want cheap stuff, buy from forums in the US... places like honda-tech sell millions of parts everyday.. shipping isnt even that expsnive..i spent very little and got quality parts.. u just gotta be patience

superR
15-06-2005, 09:28 PM
let me guess.............Too fast 2 furious performance?
I got the same quote.... im planning on going to have a look at it all this weekend. but the only problem is that i only have a slight idea of what to look for when it comes to quality :cool: .

**Ghost**
15-06-2005, 11:49 PM
i'm no turbo expert by any means althought i was seriously thinking about it at one stage so i did some research...

my humble advice (and again its not professional) is to screw all these magic ktis and build a system yourself... on lowest budget (shopping on USA forums as weq said) at one stage i managed to piece together

1. t25 from some r33gtst (very good condition) $350 AUD

2. custom turbo manifold from an exhaust shot ($200)

3. DSM 450cc Injectors (2nd hand) - $250 for 4

4. custom downpipe from exhaust shop ($150)

5. wastegate (i THINK it was called "deltagate" or something but dont quote me, $250

6. VAFC (to run the stupid fuel hack) - $250

7. rx7 Fc FMIC - $50 bucks

now i know the baove sounds like a "junkyard" turbo...and admittedly it is... of COURSE it can be improved upon (no shit), but i took it to a mechanic on paper and he reckoned it would handle LOW boost very well...weakest link in this sort of setup being the VAFC hack... if u can find someone to chip ur ecu, better option

LO_N_SXC
16-06-2005, 09:28 AM
Thanks for the info guys! I never knew my thread was still going on? but yeah I'm planing on making the kit my self and one of my mates has been working on turbokits for starions, ETs and many other cars and looks to know what he's talking about! so most likeley I will get him to make me a manifold and stuff...........

Cheers!

Alex

mr_mojo02
16-06-2005, 11:04 AM
keep us posted on how it goes :D

JESPER
18-06-2005, 04:05 PM
Ive got a shop in NSW and have had this guy comin in for months grilling me on parts and prices. Of course all of my prices were to dear, so he went with a 'lower priced' kit. I wont say from who, but of course its already been mentioned in this thread lol.

Needless to say when he told me I said most of what you all have said and of course I was only being a 'pushy' salesman and didnt know what i was talking about.

The car has been in another shop for close to 4months now, has cost the guy close to 10k to get everything fixed. New mani, new turbo, parts that were meant to be in the 'complete kit' but werent and of course labour to fix the crappy parts.

Pay the extra the first time. I know its cheaper to go overseas, but try and keep it local guys and please don`t bust the balls of the guy behind the desk at your local shop. After all, all we want to do is supply parts so we can get money to build our own cars :cool:

superR
18-06-2005, 08:03 PM
Jesper dont know if im being dense here , but are you saying that he got one of the Too fast 2 furious performance turbo kits? cause i looked at it and it all seems ok ... manifold is thick enough and has equal length pipes, turbo looks to be ok ect ect.
I need to know if it is just crap parts cause i was thinking about buying it during the week.

JESPER
22-06-2005, 02:38 PM
Yeah. The turbo he got with it had to be rebuilt to. I dont want to go around bashing ppl. I give props for eveyone out there tryin to deliever products to people. My post was more directed at saying that theres a reason you pay more for some things and dont go making out that the ppl that do sell good gear are trying to rip you off.

Last words, you get what you pay for...

Weq
22-06-2005, 07:19 PM
guys, ffs, dont by ssuatocrhome, stone mountain racing and xs power crap. NONE OF IT. its ALLL CRAP.

saxman
22-06-2005, 07:25 PM
guys, ffs, dont by ssuatocrhome, stone mountain racing and xs power crap. NONE OF IT. its ALLL CRAP.
and the obx manifold to that list... they're all the same

basically if a shop tries to sell you a manifold that looks like this
http://www.stockreco.com/Mvc-CIVBRTNEW1f.jpg

1. do not buy it
2. leave the shop, as anyone that tries to sell such utter crap obviously could care less about their customers or the quality of the parts they are selling

NTR16N
22-06-2005, 10:01 PM
so who had the DIY turbo install instructions on the site i cant find it?? still undecided :confused:

let us know how everythin is goin?? im doin mah research on it too...