how to make a car rev longer?

[Fro-Daddy]

first of all, i dont mean how do you remove the redline cutout or anything...just what mods makes the cars rev out longer? coz ive seen some rev to 10,000rpm and dunno what it is that theyve done to it to make it do that without summin blowing up...

[ekslut]

Those people have done everything in the engine to get it to rev to 10,000rpm. At that high revs, it put heaps of strain on all the engine internals, therefore pretty much everything needs to be upgraded. As well as fuel system, and I would be thinking that you would need a fairly good oil pump as well.

[SINISTR]

yup - its all in the Engine Build!

[Scoota]

Someone's been watching wayyy too much Initial D :p j.k

Nah, its been done, but mainly v-tec engines though
Alot of work is involved

[panda[cRx]]

Someone's been watching wayyy too much Initial D :p j.k

Nah, its been done, but mainly v-tec engines though
Alot of work is involved

or BMI's "battle at 10,000rpm"

and dude it is VTEC, not V-TEC, VTECH or VTEK

[^^v]

a well balanced engine..

[ekslut]

Actually how would the crankshaft hold up at those sorts or RPM?

[egSi]

how? my question is why? lol

[Macros]

how? my question is why? lol

power is made from torque and rpm

[Nikki]

depends on the way its all put together and the dosh spent

[redliner]

what about aftermarket ecu?

[ekslut]

defiently need a aftermarket ecu, and a good one

[Terry]

EF? get a spoon B16A......thats all done and can rav safely till 9000rpm:D

But yeah.....u need to brake the engine up and swap all the cams valve and everythings.......either way is expensive job:o

[Fro-Daddy]

ahh ok cool, coz i know power = torque x rpm so the more rpm usually the more power you can extract with the right tuning

[gnx1987]

obviously strong internals. short stroke. strong valve springs (to avoid valve bounce). cams. good bearings all around......good ecu......like someone mentioned before, well balanced bottom end.....I think the rest is just power. I.e. when the engines reving so high, it's sucking air in so quickly obviously you need an awesome intake setup unless your turbo of course. Just on short stroke you should see the crank on an F1 engine it looks like less than a 60 mm stroke from the pic I saw in this mag (comparo the m5 v10 hits peak at 8250, it's got a 75mm stroke)

[keric_02]

rev'n at 10,000 puts soo much strain on the engine... if u're gonna do that, u'll probably need new internals with it

[SKREMN]

My motor (currently being built) will rev up to 8500, 9000 rpm (hasnt been tested yet) i've got a jdm ecu and new jdm internals bigger fule pump and injectors and bigger oil pump, bigger manafold and throttle body and full port and polish but to make it all 100% you gotta get the motor blue printed which blances and tests everything back to the original specs, as well as that i got a blockguard (got pic but dunno how to insert them here only new) got one of ebay it sits in your block and reinforces the piston sleaves.

[pgclee]

you just need to re-balance your crank, change to a H or I beam Conrods, a Type R Oil pump, bosch Fuel pump, Fuel press Reg, 290-330cc injectors, Type R Valves, port and polish your cilinder head (Air flow test) + balance it, change to the B16b cams (or higher spec) + TI retainers + high rated valve springs + adj cam gears...and Power FC...you also might consider a bigger outlet of extractor and a 2.5inch piping catback + spoon N1 moffler...B16 can rev higher than B18's...shorter stroke = less friction = less stress to the engine...hmm..not to forget...your TB to be bored up + intake manifold as well...

is not easy to reach 10k rpm (or more)....needs quite abit of money dude...so..keep it at 9,400rpm...you might save alot more...

[**Ghost**]

pgclee wot about pistons?|

[pgclee]

use the JDM or Spoon over size piston will do...or if you want to spend more money, then get Toda, and if you are richer, get Jun (Cosworth piston) or if you are too rich..send the whole car to Cosworth...may be they can help u...hehehe..

[Limbo]

high RPM kills engine, even if you manage to get the engine to do that kind or RPM it will need regular rebuilds to keep it doing those rpm. That's why race car engines get rebuilt every race.

I know i had my 20v reving at 9k with aftermarket computer and it needed a rebuild after 1 yr.

[ITRBoI]

have to do a major engine rebuilt

[Q_ball]

engine rebuild with forgys, new cams, rods, cylinders, injectors, bearings....the whole lot basically + an aftermarket ecu will set u in good stride to rev at least till 9k :D

[Mateoo]

put a rotor in it :p

[aznsiko]

to get it reving harder tehn you need to chip your ECU.. but again.. to rev that high the engine needs alot of work done.. because at that high the internals are put under alot of stress.. so not suggested on a stock car... wid a stock engine..

[pgclee]

go 11,000rpm!...haha...get yourself a heart attack...!!...hehehe...

dude..i reckon you don't go and do what ever 10,000rpm..there is still alot about Vtec that can make the car fast..small bucks spent may also worth the money...hehehe..

[pgclee]

modification such as...an ECU, Cam gears, fuel reg and final gear...i think you can rock on with an ITR any time...not even 2.5k including tuning and fitting...rev till 9200rpm would be fine...

[ProECU]

OK
none of these comments are totally accurate. Let me explain.

There are mainly three reasons why engines in stock form should not be revved higher than factory specs, and these reasons are the key as to what needs to be addressed if you want to go higher.

1. RODS
Power remainig constant, Piston to head clearance is chosen based on rod material stretch properties under certain rpm's. Stock rods are more than capable of revving higher, however the more rod stretch, the more likely the piston top is to kiss a valve or head, depending on the clearance. Forged rods are not a neccesity for higher revs if the clearances are adjusted accordingly.

2. Head Valve Train.
Springs & Retainers are chosen such that the spring pressure is just enough to withstand the forces generated by the cam lobe profiles at a max rpm (chosen as a function of rod & crank displacement).
Uneccesarily high spring pressures will accelerate wear on your vales & seats.

3. Engine Geometry
This pertains to the size of the crank & length of the rods.
Engine Deck Height remaining constant, the larger the crank, the smaller the rod length. The opposite holds true also.
So, a shorter rod, larger crank will cause piston speeds to be very large in comparison to the opposite scenario, and since F=ma, the forces on the cylinders are larger with shorter rods.

If you're interested in engine physics and what is required to make an engine rev higher, or produce more torque etc etc, grab yourselves a copy of "Smokey Yunnik's" engine building handbook.

Hope this explanation helps

[pgclee]

proECU...i'm starting to think that...did u learn it by paying that kinda big bucks to get the engine reving and gain your experience thru that...or you're just doing according to the theory??...hmmm....it caught me thinking that...when u say a shorter rod...hmm..means?..please define it...thank you...and also...what do you mean by bigger crank....hmm...

[rev-tech]

easiest way to rev to 10k.........get a rotor! :D

but if you must do it with a piston engine, well basically everything has to be balanced to perfection, if not the engine is going to shake like hell and something will get wrecked! well it will get wrecked anyway!!
The valvetrain has to cope with opening and closing at those speeds!! not to mention bearings and the likes

You want to drop the rotating mass down as much as possible as well, so a lightweight bottom end would work well.

Shane

[sifoo]

conrods, rod bolts, head bolts, a good r/s ratio and balancing is a MUST

[mj3610]

i'd be happy with 8400rpm :D

[destrukshn]

longer rods, more revs, less torque
shoter rods, less revs, more torque

eg.
ss v8, redline isn't high, as the strokes are longer.

but all depends on the application you want.

i'm quite sure that's how it works, if i'm wrong, please correct me.

[JohnnyVtec]

To get 10,000 you should be prepared to spend 10,000



Thats just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers,:thumbsup:

[destrukshn]

$10,000? only?

i reckon it'd be more... lol.

[ZeForce]

shorter rods, more revs, less torque
longer rods, less revs, more torque

eg.
ss v8, redline isn't high, as the strokes are longer.

but all depends on the application you want.

i'm quite sure that's how it works, if i'm wrong, please correct me.

Its the other way around,

Long rod, compared to stroke, => high revving with narrow 'peaky' torque curve

Short rod => lower revving but with a 'broader' useful torque curve

[destrukshn]

that's right.. lol, makes sense doesn't it/
lol.
short rod has more more room to travel.
lol.
go figure.

[Slow96GSR]

Just go get an formula motor and go above 10k! If you want to go that high yes you NEED the built motor, ecu, fuel system and other parts but you also need a tuner that knows his stuff and a lot of time on a dyno. You'll spend almost as much on the build labor and some parts as you will on dyno time and tuner time. I can go past 10k but I never will. I like the idea of my parts being stronger than I need and producing more than enough power to get me down the track. I have the option though to go faster but don't need to all the time. Spend your money else where as you will need $30kUSD/$39kAUD easy including the tuning time. I'd do a mild build and toss on a turbo kit and save up until you can afford for your car to be down 3-4 months at least.

[ewendc2r]

PROECU -- Thanks for clearing that up (with a very simplified explanation as there are MANY factors that come into play including harmonics above certain RPM) -- I was banging my head against a wall reading some of the responses before reading yours.

People shouldn't post an answer unless they ABSOLUTELY know its correct.

[ProECU]

Thanks
posted that over a year ago.... proof people don't read, lol

[destrukshn]

shit.. lol, someone bought up a old thread.
lol.

[Slow96GSR]

Ya. I've seen threads that were brought up on my forum that were well in excess of 4 years old. People do a search and don't look at the dates!!

[ewendc2r]

hahhahhaha sorry!!

[nigs]

Shit *****, my car rev's to 10,000 in neutral. :wave:

[AsH_]

i idle at 10,000rpm

LoLz

[NeRV]

just get a motorbike, rev's higher and faster.

[TRUMAN]

someone i noe's done their internals for their vtec engine and it revs hard.. smashes heaps of turbo cars =). GO N/A Yo! arm and a leg it will cost ya

[robert nguyen]

how abt jus lighten everyting.. or chuk in the engine from the suzuki cappucino.. thats wat i call a rev monster!

[Vinnie]

chuck in a motorbike engine ;) sum1 put a hayabusa engine in an escort and turbod it and it revved to about 15k from memory :D ran 13 sec quarters too...

besides, any engine can rev really high u jus have to be prepared to go thru a lot of engines :p

[koldfire]

i was dreaming then accidentally downshifted and rev till 11krpm on B16A for 1 second long...FREAKED! it's got titanium springs n retainers though... wonder if that would damage anything...

[MaskedAP1]

with the ability to rev up to 10k rpm, you AT LEAST need better/stronger springs and retainers, and also an ECU to remove your redline(fuel cut point) but my question is, why you want 10K rpm? even with bigger cams like these stage3, it wont make any more power at 9-10k rpm range.

here is an example for you. this is one of my friends allmotor B20Vtec, with his build, the motor has no problem to rev up to 10k rpm, but have a look at where his peak power at and how it drops afterwards. he had a run with255/182 at best, power delivery was very rough and it was a small spike at 7000rpm with that run, so the graph didnt as smooth as this one.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v208/MaskedDC4/bretsb20vtecDA.jpg

for others that interested in his motor here is a pic of it, and i also have his dyno clip
http://photobucket.com/albums/v208/MaskedDC4/brendsan-r.jpg

[kayot1k]

lol at koldfire "
i was dreaming then accidentally downshifted and rev till 11krpm on B16A for 1 second long...FREAKED! it's got titanium springs n retainers though... wonder if that would damage anything... "
WTF man, what are you on.

[chingaling]

Someone's been watching wayyy too much Initial D :p j.k

Nah, its been done, but mainly v-tec engines though
Alot of work is involved

IT YOUTUBE.COM

[ProECU]

you're not serious are you?

That dip in power at the end is because it's hit the rev limiter. Power production tapers off gradually until a point then it dies.
The graph below does not taper, it jsut dies!

The redline on that motor, according to that graph is 8.5k, not your imaginary 10k.
If you believe its a 10K motor based on that dyno plot, then you'll believe pigs fly!

If you're saying that the engine was run upto 10k and subsequently it was determined that there was no power up there, then I believe that, but I assume the engine builder and tuner have determined 8.5k is optimal due to the geometry and build of the engine.

btw: There are cams on the market that make power to 10k, it doesn't appear this engine was cammed that way, and it wouldn't make sence to build a b20 that way.



here is an example for you. this is one of my friends allmotor B20Vtec, with his build, the motor has no problem to rev up to 10k rpm, but have a look at where his peak power at and how it drops afterwards. http://photobucket.com/albums/v208/MaskedDC4/bretsb20vtecDA.jpg

[barefootbonzai]

Fark that looks like an animal. YOUTUBE that shit for sure!




for others that interested in his motor here is a pic of it, and i also have his dyno clip
http://photobucket.com/albums/v208/MaskedDC4/brendsan-r.jpg

[MaskedAP1]

ProECU, they set the redline at/about 8.5k rpm, what i was saying is, with his build, his motor able to rev up to 10k rpm, but there was no point to rev that high bcz the way they build his motor.

[MaskedAP1]

Fark that looks like an animal. YOUTUBE that shit for sure!

try and see if you can watch
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/MaskedDC4/th_dynoRun.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v208/MaskedDC4/?action=view&current=dynoRun.flv)

[ProECU]

you're in Sydney and this is a LEFT hand drive ??

[MaskedAP1]

yes, just moved to sydney, and used to live at vancouver canada.

[xtercii]

that's krazii power for an NA motor, what sort of time is this car running?

[MaskedAP1]

i didnt have a chance to watch him run, its winter in vancouver. im guessing he should be at low 13 range.

[vtecbrad]

watch this one for a spoon civic 11000RPM, very nice to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl8T9KFgjWc

[Mr_will]

i was dreaming then accidentally downshifted and rev till 11krpm on B16A for 1 second long...FREAKED! it's got titanium springs n retainers though... wonder if that would damage anything...

rofl. which part of your imaginary tacho were you looking at to see 11000 rpm

[JDC5R]

if you mishift ie go from 3rd gear to 2nd gear instead of 4th it is absolutely possible to see 11000rpm+

[silver_screen]

its kinda hard to go 3rd to 2nd.... ... y would u wanna go 10k in a piston motor anyway??? my rotor is being built to sing all the way to 13k :D

[notorious_ahmie]

if it aint a rotor it aint a motor..13b ftw!

[destrukshn]

booooo to rotors.
lol.

my mate once asked me..
how many pistons does a rx7 have? -_-
lol.

[IN73GZ]

if it aint a rotor it aint a motor..13b ftw!

you could get minus rep points for comments like that!

[notorious_ahmie]

i could give u a few minus rep points to head yO!

but anyways regards to whyy u would make it longer..its simple..wen ur racin some1 at the drags...and there losing valuable time changing gears and ur just revvin the **** off the eng..and considering ur makin good power all the way through then ur gonna win(obviously depending on the other car..plus if its a rotor then no way lol)

[ProECU]

this thread has been butchered and turned to shit. mods close it!

[silver_screen]

hahah i agree... and please dont say if it aint a rotor it aint a motor.... because its not a motor.. its a rotor... Piston Engine and Rotary Engine please... and i have beaten a rotor in a civic b4... it was very stock rx7 ser3 and the civic in question was a very worked EK coupe lol

[notorious_ahmie]

ur a gronk.. its a motor that rules above all..

u say u have beaten a rotor..so have i wen i had my civic..BUT it was modded as was ur 'a very worked ek coupe lol'

but wen u spend the money on the rotor that u or whomeva spent on workin that coupe..then answer my question..who will win..prolly even half the money spent and that rotor would kick ur ass..

stick to ur series 3 and ill stick to my 6

[destrukshn]

6 ftw
lol

[VTi_b0i]

remove the rev limiter, that will make it rev longer....

[destrukshn]

lol.
you can only rev to a certain point even without the rev limiter.

[VTi_b0i]

lol it will still rev higher then b4 ;)

[aaronng]

This thread has gone past its use-by date....