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View Full Version : how strong is the TypeR engine?



cheebye
20-01-2004, 06:57 PM
I have heard that the type-r engine's come equipped with forged pistons and conrods?? can't remember where I got it from but wasn't too sure.

How strong are the internals, and how much punishment can they take? I don't mean constantly redlining it as that's what they were built for! :P

I mean, like for example if I were to Nos it or turbo the engine, how much abuse can they really take b4 needing to pull it apart and strengthen it further?

also.. what about the gearbox as well?

thx.

VTEC16
20-01-2004, 10:59 PM
They are a very strong na engine.....they wernt built for turbo applications, so i would assume they wouldnt be too great if you wound up da boost.

vti-2
20-01-2004, 11:14 PM
I mean, like for example if I were to Nos it or turbo the engine, how much abuse can they really take b4 needing to pull it apart and strengthen it further?

also.. what about the gearbox as well?

thx.

You could safely run upto about 8psi on an ITR engine. That's hard daily driving. Anything above that, and even with the stronger internals it has you will start melting or blowing things up.

Don't listen to people that say you can't boost an ITR cause of the higher compression. That's all BS. A decent builder will be able to do it. There are a few boosted ITR's in Melbourne. One is red and i was talking to some of the boys about it earlier tonight but can't remember the plates or who the owner is. From memory he was running about 12psi but had a bit more work done to it.

Nos? Talk to pornstar on this forum cause he's run Nos on a few of his Honda's.

As for the gearbox, it should hold easily. The clutch should be ok for a short while too, before it will be time to upgrade. :D

trippy
20-01-2004, 11:41 PM
Well i know of a certain yellow type r in melb that is runing boast n he is getting around 150kw at the front wheels n he has no internal work done, he had the turbo was installed when the car had 20,000km on it and now it has 70,000 and the car is still running the standard clutch from when the car was new. The only thing he has changed the most is his tires.. hehehe..
I went for a ride in the car in the mountains, and he could keep up with a Sti 03....
Is an amazing car when in n/q format, but boasted this car is unbelievable, no lag and has serious top end, can rev the car all teh way to 9400 redline.

UR2L8
21-01-2004, 01:51 PM
trippy: 150kw isnt that much, thats about 10kw extra from stock N/A. You could get 150kw easily without boost. Like Vti-2 said, 8psi should be fine and the stock internals cope very well with turbo probably one of the best out of any N/A original car but anything above that, you haveto do some serious strengthening.

civex98
21-01-2004, 01:56 PM
UR2L8...u'll find that a stock ITR doesn't pull anywhere near 147kw at the wheels...it's rated at the flywheel
150kw at the wheels is actually quite a bit of power at the flywheel considering how much power is actually lost between there and the front wheels..

poid
21-01-2004, 02:05 PM
exactly right, h22a's seem to dyno around the 105kw mark so that would put the type-R around there also at the front wheels. So adding 40% more power, and some low-down torque would make a huge difference

[[d a n n y]]
21-01-2004, 02:37 PM
trippy stated it's from the front wheels

which means 150KW at the wheels figure

good 50KW more than the stock N/A

Civic Type R
21-01-2004, 04:08 PM
Toda make awsome kits for the Type R and im sure the guys there can correct me, that you can build a B18C7 to 240HP quite easily.

LatinoHatchCrap
21-01-2004, 04:20 PM
Toda make awsome kits for the Type R and im sure the guys there can correct me, that you can build a B18C7 to 240HP quite easily. if its at the flywheel it can be made for sure but yo'll need a lot $$$$ and some awesome tuning.

UR2L8
21-01-2004, 05:29 PM
civex98: The ITR Aus Spec is 176Hp at the wheels (131kw). The JDM's are a bit more, not exactly sure the figure. But 150kw (201hp) is very much achivable with ITR N/A. And probably even cheaper too.

XXpl0Sive
21-01-2004, 05:31 PM
150kw at the front wheels is quite respectable!
How much did it cost him to do this?

Xenon
21-01-2004, 06:18 PM
UR2L8: The itr would not make 131kw at the wheels..where did u get that figure from? :shock:

As stated before, the stock itr should make around the 100kw mark at the wheels...to gain 50kws keeping N/A means big bucks because the ITR engine is already highly tuned..

A turbo kit would be a MUCH cheaper alternative to make that extra 50kw..however reliability and driveabliitly (is there such a word??) might be an issue..also handling around corners might be a problem! .....HELLO TORQUE STEER :)

UR2L8
21-01-2004, 06:32 PM
I do not belive an ITR Aus spec is 100kw thats....134hp. There is no way thats true. Here is a site with a USDM ITR and they are practicly the same as AUS spec, and shows dyno tests with just headers http://www.ap-engineering.com/header.html
The ITR is around 176Hp at the wheels, and there is no way its 134hp. Were do you get your gueses from Xenon? A stock ITR with Toda headers get 190HP at the wheels stock everything alse. With a good set of headers, flywheel, piggy-back system/ECU, good exhaust, plugs..., and some dyno tuning, you should be hovering around the 200HP at wheels mark.
We are talking about a TypeR Integra I assume and not a Vtir.

XXpl0Sive
21-01-2004, 06:42 PM
Drive train loss is ~70%, if you take 70% of the 147kw at the fly, you'll get 100kw.

Xenon get's his 'guesses' from dynocharts I'd assume. To re-state, a Type-R puts ~100kw atw. :)

Xenon
21-01-2004, 06:50 PM
Umm.. dont take the US dyno readings too seriously..

They have a habit of overstating their figures..

It is more useful to gauge your cars average power output with people who have done their dyno readings in aust..

XXpl0Sive
21-01-2004, 06:58 PM
Stock ITR.
http://www.teamevade.com/forum/phpBB2/download.php?id=797
Courtesy of 'Matty' from TE.

And I think I've seen Tofu R's dyno sheet somewhere, he pulled just over 100 at the wheels..

Tofu
21-01-2004, 08:30 PM
usa dyno figures and the dyno figures here are two completely different things

there is no way a stock ITR (dc2 or dc5) can pull much more than 100kw at the wheels period...
it's not a guess..it is fact

A'PEXi
21-01-2004, 11:11 PM
150kw is quite good, anymore info on the turbo setup?...

dc2r
22-01-2004, 12:28 AM
As everyone says... stock AUSDM Type-R only puts out about 90 kw atw. From what I can remember from the last ClubRSX dyno day, most stock Type-R's put out only average of 90 kw atw. There's another dyno day organised by ClubRSX and OzHonda are invited, so if you rock up and see the stockies have a run, you will see what we mean.
150kw atw is very good for a Type-R because these things are light, and so the power to weight ratio is crazy! There was a red boosted dc2r featured in Fast Fours/Hot 4's a while back and it was running 12 sec quarters I think.

Civic Type R
22-01-2004, 12:48 PM
usa dyno figures and the dyno figures here are two completely different things

there is no way a stock ITR (dc2 or dc5) can pull much more than 100kw at the wheels period...
it's not a guess..it is fact
dynos are all different.
Marz'ITR pulled 118kw at the wheels.
My Civic VTiR with IHE pulled 113 kw at the wheels last weekend.

[[d a n n y]]
22-01-2004, 04:24 PM
usa dyno figures and the dyno figures here are two completely different things

there is no way a stock ITR (dc2 or dc5) can pull much more than 100kw at the wheels period...
it's not a guess..it is fact
dynos are all different.
Marz'ITR pulled 118kw at the wheels.
My Civic VTiR with IHE pulled 113 kw at the wheels last weekend.

in first gear?

LatinoHatchCrap
22-01-2004, 05:06 PM
thers no way a stock ITR will make 190hp at the wheels just with a TODA header :shock:

UR2L8
22-01-2004, 05:39 PM
A stock ITR is between 160-176Hp at wheels. Everyone sais that and shows that. Only Xenon, Xlodded and tofu think that an ITR is about the same as "Corrola Sportivo" or some crap. So if a TypeR is no more than 131Hp at wheels LOL!!! then an S15 is what? no more than 140Hp at wheels? get real. A JDM ITR is 176HP give or take a couple HP, thats everywere on every site you can possible find that shows its results.

poid
22-01-2004, 06:00 PM
read above once again, US dyno's tend to be more optimistic and give higher power figures than Aussie dynos.

Hence the following:

On an aussie dyno a stock ITR will dyno around the 100kw at the wheels mark
Hence, a dyno reading of 150kw at the wheels is a sizable improvement, and not something you can replicate with simple bolt ons.

The readings above have been similar on dynos all over the country. Hell you may as well be saying you went to a dyno place, dyno'ed 100kw at the wheels and you'll pick up 50kw from I/H/E cos a yank ITR dyno'ed 200hp at the wheels with those mods.

The figures are NOT comparable.

As far as the rolla sportivo comparison, the current ones dyno around 80-85kw at the wheels, despite having a 'quoted' 141kw at the flywheel. I believe the older turbo ones had slightly higher power at the wheels. The differences there are higher drivetrain loss, but as you can see the figures still seem reasonable.

As far as s15's go, i've heard of stock power figures around 115-120kw at the wheels from them (depending on the dyno of course!!)

tofu R
22-01-2004, 06:04 PM
stock itrs have 100kw ?
hehe

i got 100 .. therefore i am stock !
=P

UR2L8
22-01-2004, 06:20 PM
Just went on a quick run, I got 158PS which is 157....HP. That was done on and RSM with G-Sensor and on even slope(im not sure if that matters). Im not saying that an RSM is the benchmark for showing results but sure is a close aproximate to a dyno result.

pornstar
23-01-2004, 02:46 AM
u know what, if ur sure that it makes around 150 stock id only be too happy for u to come to the dyno with us and prove it man. It will really show how bullshit the gtech is, and how much the yanks overstate their hp

dc2r
23-01-2004, 11:22 AM
Please come to the dyno... I either want a good laugh or a good surprise!

Jim80y
23-01-2004, 11:33 AM
Are you guys retarded or something you cannot compare dyno figures from different dynos! In the US the most common type are Dynojet and Mustang Dynos, here most of the dynos I've seen are Dyno Dynamics. The US dynos read considerably higher than the aussie dynos. And as for using a Gtech or RSM, you definitely cannot compare those with dyno readings.

UR2L8
23-01-2004, 11:41 AM
Dont yall worie fellas, in a few weeks il be going on the dyno here in Melbourne but with a few mods. And 1st thing I will get them to print me a copy and I will post it up here. But my RSM gave me a 159PS reading yesterday and I dont think that its that far off the genuine HP reading. But we will see.
Another thing, how much are stock Integra Vtir's?

Civic Type R
23-01-2004, 11:50 AM
]]

usa dyno figures and the dyno figures here are two completely different things

there is no way a stock ITR (dc2 or dc5) can pull much more than 100kw at the wheels period...
it's not a guess..it is fact
dynos are all different.
Marz'ITR pulled 118kw at the wheels.
My Civic VTiR with IHE pulled 113 kw at the wheels last weekend.

in first gear?
yeah reverse :roll:

UR2L8
23-01-2004, 11:55 AM
Shit thats heaps, very nice for a Civic 113kw, must have some mods. Im not sure but those guys must be on crack or pot or something along those lines who say an ITR which is a racing engine wich is completly different to the Vtir's is like same or simmilar power. Even the ITR's windsheild is thiner than the Vtir's, thats how much different they are.

pornstar
23-01-2004, 12:09 PM
Look, back awhile ago, Jacob Chang who had one of the most modified ITRS around made 95kws at the wheels. I know each dyno is different but most of the aus dynos are completely different to the usa. Id like to see 300whp stock motor and only turbo kit...

dc2r
23-01-2004, 12:13 PM
jim80y you funny kent! yes maybe some of these guys are retarded.... LOL!
UR2L8, stop kidding yourself man. The AUSDM DC2R is 141kw at the FLYWHEEL. At the wheels, that would come up to about 90 kw. I'm not denying that my Type-R is less than 100 kw at the wheels, although I haven't dynoed her yet (waiting for the weekend to get exact figures), but I know that wheel power figures doesn't say anything. Dyno's are really just for comparing your engine mods to how you had it before and after. So what if a skyline has 120kw atw or whatever they get... Doesn't mean anything because in the end, the car as a WHOLE package plus driver is what matters.
And keeping with topic, the Type-R engine is very strong. :)

UR2L8
23-01-2004, 01:09 PM
Whos to say that US Dyno's are crap and Australian ones are the best and most accurate? look il see how it is with me on the dyno soon.
Im not kidding myself, it just dosent make sence what your saying, so a Porsche GT2 say is 400HP rated, but its actualy 390HP? wtf.

pornstar
23-01-2004, 01:15 PM
no1 said that the dynos in the usa are crap, they are just overating their hp.

but dont be disapppointed if u get only 90kws or so, cos thats what stock R's pull man.

i mean if they pulled 150hp at the wheels and james is running a gt30 on it to only get 200kws at the wheels at 12 psi...

XXpl0Sive
23-01-2004, 01:16 PM
A stock ITR is between 160-176Hp at wheels. Everyone sais that and shows that. Only Xenon, Xlodded and tofu think that an ITR is about the same as "Corrola Sportivo" or some crap. So if a TypeR is no more than 131Hp at wheels LOL!!! then an S15 is what? no more than 140Hp at wheels? get real. A JDM ITR is 176HP give or take a couple HP, thats everywere on every site you can possible find that shows its results.
1. Get my name right ;)
2. Yes, the power output of a Type-R is 'simialar' to the Sportivo, but the reason why the Type-R is 'faster' is because it weighs almost 200kg lighter.
3. FYI, a SR20DET, stock, will put around 100-110kw at the rear wheels, what is so 'unreal' about that!?!?

Anyway, stop kidding yourself and come to dyno day ;)

XXpl0Sive
23-01-2004, 01:18 PM
And YES the Type-R is a 'strong' engine.

Are you sure you understand what 147kw means when they print it in the specs? It means the engine can put out 147 at the FLY WHEEL. Simple physics tells us that to transfer this power to the wheels there will be energy lost. Hence, when I say it makes ~100kw AT THE WHEELS, I mean a car has lost 30% of it's original power through the drivetrain - which is also what everyone here has been saying to you!

So to conclude, take the KW it makes at the fly wheel (you will find that most if not all car advertisements/specs print the kw at the flywheel) and multiply by 0.7 to get a rough estimate of how much power it really puts out at the wheels.

UR2L8
23-01-2004, 01:30 PM
So then when they show the graphs, they somehow digitaly modify it do they? try going through heaps of sites espcialy ones with graphs in it, see how much they say. Almost all of them are between 160Hp-176Hp at wheels. Only here will you get otherwise.
Enough arguing, just settle at this, we have different views on things and so be it. Theres no right and wrong.

UR2L8
23-01-2004, 01:34 PM
I thought it was "70% loss through drivetrain" before and now its 30%? make up your mind man. Is it 30% loss or 70%loss. Seems like a bit of mind changing going on.

XXpl0Sive
23-01-2004, 01:35 PM
Are you going to Australian ones or U.S ones.

We are in Australia, and everything we do is relative to Australians. There is no point comparing Australia to U.S dynos, regardless of their accuracy, everything is different, how do you know they run the same configurations as us, their air pressure, their petrol's octane etc.

I've already posted a dyno of a stock DC2R done in NSW for you, I have access to more if you want to see them. There's more here:
http://www.teamevade.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1225&postdays=0&postorder=asc&star t=15

XXpl0Sive
23-01-2004, 01:38 PM
I thought it was "70% loss through drivetrain" before and now its 30%? make up your mind man. Is it 30% loss or 70%loss. Seems like a bit of mind changing going on.
It's ~30% loss. And ~70% of the power gets transferred through to the wheels.

pornstar
23-01-2004, 01:56 PM
UR2L8, hp and kws not the same thing man.

anyways, ignorance is a virtue, im not arguing with no fool, if the us can do it on their dynos, it must be doable on aus dynos. And if thats not the case, ill use the GTEC :p

tinkerbell
23-01-2004, 01:59 PM
THIS is the ABSOLUTE FUNNIEST thread EVER - and this place has had some bloody funny shit babbled incoherently at times...

PS last time i checked were are in Australia and we compare power figures from Australian dynos...

tinkerbell
23-01-2004, 02:00 PM
ROFLMAO @ RSM too!!!

dc2r
23-01-2004, 02:04 PM
and in KW... not HP

pornstar
23-01-2004, 02:08 PM
Errrr what is this KW u speak off? :p The dynos i read from are all in HP, Hp is all that matters, cos in the US where we live, the US dynos make so much more hp.

Aww fvck, i cant spend anymore money on a dyno, so ill use da GTECH cos i know its reliable, it said my ITR can run high 13s....STOCK :p

eknine
23-01-2004, 03:09 PM
diverts away some heat in here

click this (http://asia.vtec.net/beystock/honda/integrar/)


:D :arrow: :D

Civic Type R
23-01-2004, 03:55 PM
Look, back awhile ago, Jacob Chang who had one of the most modified ITRS around made 95kws at the wheels. I know each dyno is different but most of the aus dynos are completely different to the usa. Id like to see 300whp stock motor and only turbo kit...
I know Jacob.
Ive had coffee with him at Crown cafe strip a few years ago :D
what happened to his tuning shop on Heidelberg Rd ?

Jim80y
23-01-2004, 04:00 PM
It's still there. But he is no longer affiliated with them in any way.

Civic Type R
23-01-2004, 04:00 PM
I cant believe we are all arguing over ****ing dynos again !!!
move on girls.

All dynos machines are different. Get over it.
sheeeesh

pornstar
23-01-2004, 04:00 PM
hmmm the tuning shop ur reffering to is ART. Its not his shop it was his friends, Dean, they have moved up the road abit, and I think he has new partners now.

Jacob no longer in aus from what i know, i cant really say on a public forum what happened.

Civic Type R
23-01-2004, 04:03 PM
He was a funny charactor :)
I remember seeing his car and later seeing it in the Motor magazine.
damn that was a few years back.

pornstar
23-01-2004, 04:11 PM
u shoulda been there when the cvnts head got so big on Phillip Island lolz

it was funny as, i was in the pit with him when a scooby driver comes over and shakes his hand at his times. boy did he get a big head haha :)