Civic Type R conversion

[Limbo]

Hi guys, i've got some real doozes for you all. I've managed to get my hands on a ITR '99 head complete (head only), 5 lug conversion and ITR 5 speed.
I am currently converting these into my ek4 vtir (b16a2). Now here goes the questions...

1) will the ITR head bolt straight up to the b16 block? or is there any work i need to do? only reason for this was the ITR head was in working order and i don't want to pull it apart and sperate the goodies inside. Will it basically make it almost the same specs as the CTR? As i have a type R head with a 1.6L block?

2) Which computer should i run? the b16a one or the ITR computer? will i be able to run the ITR computer? Not looking at going aftermarket as yet as the conversion is taking up the costs.

3) Is the final drive of the ITR box the same as my Vtir? I know the other gears are shorter..., are they all standard LSD?

4) Are the timing belts the same with the b16 & b18 (can someone confirm)? if not which belt do i use now?

Any help would be appreciated as i am looking at doing the conversion very soon.....

[sesshoumaru]

The Aus spec ITR final drive is 4.7, ur EK4 is 4.4.

Ill leave the rest to someone else :P

[ah8118]

hmm if i am not wrong, itr and ctr heads are the same. difference between type r engine and b16a is that the type r have a higher lower block, different pistons, rods etc. u should be able to bolt the itr head staright on. but i'm not 100% sure. as for the itr final drive, its 4.785, compared to ek4's 4.4. that i'm pretty sure. hope this helps.

[Limbo]

What about the 5th gears, are they both close to each other or is it much shorter on the ITR? (just checking to see how much of a guzzler this gearing is gonna cause)

[civex98]

from what i know, the CTR engine is actually closer to a destroked B18 block with a B16 head.
I believe the Type-R head is developed from the B16 head as it flows better than the B18 head.
so, yeah.....i suppose you would get some gains as supposedly the type-r head's are ported and polished so allow better flow than the stock B16A head, but without the destroked b18 bottom end, you will be still far from an actual b16b engine (ctr engine).
not to mention all the other stuff that has been done to the ctr engine :p
did you get the valve cover? that's always good for a bit of bling :D

if i am wrong in anyway, just tell me and i'll deal with it :P

[hondar]

Hi guys, i've got some real doozes for you all. I've managed to get my hands on a ITR '99 head complete (head only), 5 lug conversion and ITR 5 speed.
I am currently converting these into my ek4 vtir (b16a2). Now here goes the questions...

1) will the ITR head bolt straight up to the b16 block? or is there any work i need to do? only reason for this was the ITR head was in working order and i don't want to pull it apart and sperate the goodies inside. Will it basically make it almost the same specs as the CTR? As i have a type R head with a 1.6L block?
yes it will bolt to the head staight. No its not the same as CTR. CTR use 1.8l block. CTR is basically a destroked ITR. You need CTR cranks and Pistons as well for a start. If i were you, nothing replace displacement. Its better to go for 1.8 than 1.6 unless you are running a competition for all 1.6 litre class only

2) Which computer should i run? the b16a one or the ITR computer? will i be able to run the ITR computer? Not looking at going aftermarket as yet as the conversion is taking up the costs.
Stick with the ITR computer.


3) Is the final drive of the ITR box the same as my Vtir? I know the other gears are shorter..., are they all standard LSD?
ITR 98 spec is 4.785 final drive with LSD, yours is a 4.4. CTR is a 4.4 with LSD

4) Are the timing belts the same with the b16 & b18 (can someone confirm)? if not which belt do i use now?

b16a uses b16a timing belt, b16b and b18c uses b18c timing belt. :D

Any help would be appreciated as i am looking at doing the conversion very soon.....

[Limbo]

Thanks for all the help guys. Yeah it would be good to go for the compete ITR engine, but i was only able to get a complete Head, and yes i did get the red cover.

I guess from this i can put the head on

Run the ITR computer

and run a b16a timing belt

Did i misinterpret anything guys?

[spoondc2]

Is it better to use 1.8 Toda kit?
Just curious......

[Civic Type R]

Ummm what your doing isnt a conversion but merely an engine upgrade.

Regarding the ECU, I have dyno tested the ITR Mugen N1 racing ECU vs the JDM ITR ECU and the VTiR ECU with my car and JDM worked B18cR.

You will be safe using your existing VTiR ECU. However i had already installed a Walbro 450HP fuel pump to raise the fuel pressure to 50PSI at the injectors so you will need to do that first. The VTiR fuel pump is 43PSI and you will starve the engine when VTEC engages.

BTW. all 3 ECU's got the same top end power but all had very different power and air/fuel curves.
In order or ranking.
1. Mugen ECU - unbeatable in every RPM, except for VTEC engagement of 4700rpm. Gains of 20HP@wheels in midrange over other ECUs.
2. VTir ECU - modest power curve and much stronger that the ITR ECU
3. JDM ITR ECU. - crappy power gains

[VT3C]

interesting that the P30 was better than the P73..

only thing to note tho, the ITR (P73) ECU will have higher redline and rev-limit for better use of the type R cams on the type R head.

Remember the thread is about a stock B16A bottom end with stock ITR head.. so the results for your engine ( being so wild internally ) may not apply.

Interesting to see how this goes..

[VT3C]

ohh hang on.. adam is your VTiR ECU "P2T" or "P30" ?

P2T = AUS
P30 = JDM

[Civic Type R]

here is the Dyno chart.

The blue line is the Mugen N1 Race Use Only ECU
The red line is the stock Civic VTiR ECU
The green line is the JDM ITR ECU

but also take note of the air/fuel curves :)

http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2/280dyno-chart-med.jpg

[Civic Type R]

ohh hang on.. adam is your VTiR ECU "P2T" or "P30" ?

P2T = AUS
P30 = JDM
P2T

[Limbo]

Thanks there Civic. I think the main difference will be where the rev limiter cuts in. Looks like the vtir ECU cuts earlier(which i already knew) i guess i will run the standard vtir ECU until i can afford the power FC in my next project upgrade.

Thanks for the fuel pump tip, i'll see if i can get my hands on an ITR fuel pump to make up the difference.

How bout the injectors? are the ITR ones bigger? (i think they might be that's all)

[faijai]

Hey limbo, sorry for OT:

NooB Question here.

Ive heard of people putting on smaller capacity heads on bigger blocks. Whats the advantage of putting bigger heads on smaller blocks?

[Limbo]

Apparently the ITR has the same head as the b16A, except that it has been ported & polished. Also the ITR head has all the valve spring & retainers to enable the engine to rev higher without having valve float problems. I guess i could of just got the ITR cams and gotten new valve springs and retainers, but this one is complete and working so i might as well use it.

[Civic Type R]

How bout the injectors? are the ITR ones bigger? (i think they might be that's all)
leave them. You wont get any gains for their duty cycle and spray pattern are amost the same, if not identical.

[VT3C]

I guess i could of just got the ITR cams and gotten new valve springs and retainers, but this one is complete and working so i might as well use it.

nah man the type R heads are Ported and Polished BY HAND !!

That means higher-flow...

not to mention the red valve cover is good for 30 ponies ;)

[Limbo]

Apparently the ITR has the same head as the b16A, except that it has been ported & polished. Also the ITR head has all the valve spring & retainers to enable the engine to rev higher without having valve float problems. I guess i could of just got the ITR cams and gotten new valve springs and retainers, but this one is complete and working so i might as well use it.

I thought i had already said that?