Motec M400 vs Wolf 3D v.4 vs Emanage

[sharky]

hi,

Im trying to decide what ECU to tune my DC4 on. Ive looked into the Motec M400 because i want to keep boosting my teg an option and i was quoted $2900 for the unit + $600 installed and tuned + $150 - 450 if i need new sensors. Im going to look into the wolf 3D but im not sure if they make them for honda's. Ive heard that Emanage's can stuff up on hondas and render the engine a paper weight. Has anyone out there had experience with ECU's, any suggestions? Price is not the biggest concern but I dont want to spend a lot on something i do not need.

[panda[cRx]]

throw emanage off the list :p

thought of microtech? or even hondata?

what mods do you have and what do you have planned?

[pornstar]

why? emanage works well for low boost

[raff]

sorry to hijack dude but how is the e-manage on na with usual mods IHE??


anybody had experience with this?

[TODA AU]

Should read...
Genius level ECU vs Average Joe ECU vs Wannabe an ECU.
You get what you pay for...
If money is no issue, there is no discussion required.
Simply buy the best.
(NB: Any of them are only ever as good as your tuner)

[BLKCRX]

How is the E manage useful at all ? someone please show me real data showing how the E manage works ? (none of this internet myth saying yes it does.. ) how does it gets over the whole limits of the stock ECU rev limits and closed loop / open loop ? how does it control for increased injector sizes and fuel pressure ? simple fact is it doesn’t.. The fact is, the car’s that do run E Manage work .. JUST … but they would run MUCH better and safer using other options out there.

Andy aka Mr pornstar you know your self the 100 of times iv explained to you ECU’s throughout the years iv known you, I remember explaining E manage when I lent you a Hondata ECU to move your car from Adrian’s workshop when Adrian from Razztech installed your turbo kit and engine for you, to get your turbo civic car working whilst you were waiting on your SMC autronic to be installed. I remember explaining and talking and feeding your brain with knowledge about ECU’s and E manage and how they don’t’ work when I filled your car up with petrol !! (meh u still owe me money for that !) and I also remember talking to you on numerous other times….
I even uninstalled a E manage system for you and your friends, because of how badly it effected the vehicles performance….the stock ECU alone worked better…. So please don’t say something like you said above, don’t let fellow Honda owners waste money on things that just don’t work !! like E Manage.


The Motec m400 is a fantastic ECU will do everything n anything you want it to.
So is the Wolf v4 3D, the wolf software has improved a lot over the years, and compares very closely to the Motec although the map resolution is't as definable, and the windows software is very mouse click happy… and not that friendly.
Having said that, there are 10x more people that can tune Motec than wolf, and 10x the amount of support. go with what ever you have best local support with, and FORGET about E Manage as a option ever !!
Fuel management is no1 priority in any setup !! Only use the best !! if you can’t afford it, save your money until you can.

Regards James

[pornstar]

How is the E manage useful at all ? someone please show me real data showing how the E manage works ? (none of this internet myth saying yes it does.. ) how does it gets over the whole limits of the stock ECU rev limits and closed loop / open loop ? how does it control for increased injector sizes and fuel pressure ? simple fact is it doesn’t.. The fact is, the car’s that do run E Manage work .. JUST … but they would run MUCH better and safer using other options out there.

they work fine on all the daily driven turbo civics ive seen, hows ur daily driver? broken again? whats wrong this time? is it the tune that vin from sti did or ur bodgy job? i remember, we went for a cruise once, one of those times when BLKCRX is fixed and driveable, i think someone pulled over and claimed that he had loose intercooler pipes, found out that it was his ecu playing up? its ok, what excuse you going to come up with now? FACT: daily driven turbocharged cars that can actually work on the street, some of them use e-manage, and they work well when the tuner knows what he is doing.

Andy aka Mr pornstar you know your self the 100 of times iv explained to you ECU’s throughout the years iv known you, I remember explaining E manage when I lent you a Hondata ECU to move your car from Adrian’s workshop when Adrian from Razztech installed your turbo kit and engine for you, to get your turbo civic car working whilst you were waiting on your SMC autronic to be installed. I remember explaining and talking and feeding your brain with knowledge about ECU’s and E manage and how they don’t’ work when I filled your car up with petrol !! (meh u still owe me money for that !) and I also remember talking to you on numerous other times…. No I think you'll find that u were feeding me with bullshit lies and more lies and more cover ups and whatever else, Adrian from Razztech, who did all the work on your car, and the other cars that you claimed to build lent me that ecu as a favour. If you want, we can get Adrian and a few of the other CRX boys that you claim to have worked on to get on here and post about it? When will you stop taking credit for work that isnt yours? Or when you going to stop saying that your car is daily driven when its broken 364 days of the year. Or how your daily driven ride was towed to the drag strip? If you want proof, if the mods let me, ill gladly show it. So since AGE lent me a hondata, you would like me to thank you? or thank you for the bullshit? what happened to th 14k rpms CRX that you claimed that you built? I can keep going if you like...

I even uninstalled a E manage system for you and your friends, because of how badly it effected the vehicles performance….the stock ECU alone worked better…. So please don’t say something like you said above, don’t let fellow Honda owners waste money on things that just don’t work !! like E Manage.
You uninstalled it? you have a funny brain bud, very funny, your memory always takes credit for work that isnt yours. Theres actually a few members on here that run this ecu and it works on their daily driven rides, no need for me to tell them to buy a special superdupa hondata to do it whena greddy can do the same job for low boost.


The Motec m400 is a fantastic ECU will do everything n anything you want it to. Yes thats right, cos you have tuned hundreds and hundreds of them :rolleyes: If you have tuned so many and your this great god of tuning for Hondas, why get Vin from STI the old BGT to tune your car what only 3 years ago, even though you hvae been tuning since 7 years ago according to you. So is the Wolf v4 3D, the wolf software has improved a lot over the years, and compares very closely to the Motec although the map resolution is't as definable, and the windows software is very mouse click happy… and not that friendly.
Having said that, there are 10x more people that can tune Motec than wolf, and 10x the amount of support. go with what ever you have best local support with, and FORGET about E Manage as a option ever !!
Fuel management is no1 priority in any setup !! Only use the best !! if you can’t afford it, save your money until you can.

Regards James

[**Ghost**]

well he did say it would be useful with "low boost" man...

[pornstar]

its ok gary, id like him to continue, i got alot id like to show ppl, its up to him if he wants to keep at it.

[EK9]

guys, please keep this between yourselves or use pm. respect the original thread starter and keep it on topic... if this keeps up the mods will come get ya ;)

[pornstar]

im on topic, sum1 started, ill just finish :) my apologies to the thread starter

As for your original question, greddy works well for low boost, but as Adrian from Toda has already said, u get what u paid for. Many in the industry believe motec and autronic to be the best.

Aside from that work from a budget in choosing ur goal, if greddy is what u can afford and u only want low boost, then it will suffice. theres a few members on here that run it on turbo setups, if u need, pm me and ill tell u who to speak to.

[Phantasm]

Perhaps opinions from people with biases towards any particular brand of edu.. should be reviewed carefully before being taken for granted.

Also if someone is starting a thread on a topic such as this, its obviously there knowledge in the area is limited and the last thing they need is conflicting answers as listed above to confuse them more.

If you guys are all so knowledgeable surely you can come up with straight answers that will be beneficial for the thread creater, and not just fill pages apon pages with arguments that are obviously not going to result in a winner.

[panda[cRx]]

i'd be more concerned WHO does your tuning than WHAT they tune with. i have seen wonders done on relatively cheap ECU's like microtech (eg. andy li's daily driven 11.74sec crx) :thumbsup:

i have also seen things like the '14krpm crx' with hondata that pornstar mentioned that blew up a few days after the tuner (BLKCRX) handed the keys over the owner.:thumbdwn:

[mr crex]

sharky you're a fellow adeladian ... PROECU bud ;)

[saxman]

look further into the capabilities of emanage. Yes, it can work for low boost applications, and lots of people do, however, your fuel control is severly limited, your timing control is basically non existant, you're tricking the ecu into not seeing boost instead of having it deal with it correctly, etc. You might as well pick up an v-afc and use a missing link... you'll get about the same control.

Also, one of the guys out here recently contacted greddy about the emanage and it's use with larger injectors, and was told it can only support 50% larger than stock sized injectors reliably, so for those of us running 240cc injectors stock(as most hondas seem to do), that means you're limited to 360cc... most turbo set ups are going to call for at least 450cc

[bennjamin]

great to see discussion on such a topic guys - but remember to keep all real life incidents/ experience noted as valid "constructive criticism".

Do not go off slandering each others work etc - keep the negative comments to PM as EK9 previously stated.

[sharky]

cheers ppl. ProECU have come highly recomended by many ppl so theres no question. Im going to go with the Motoc M400, i was quoted $2950 for the unit, damn expensive and blows my budget out by a few months but it also means what ever mod i decide to put on further down the track it can handle it, no questions asked. And lets face it ppl a B18B engine needs all the top shelf help it can get ha ha

[saxman]

you really have to look into what all you need the ems to do when deciding which one to use... no use paying for a $3000 ems if a $500 one can do the same job... and honestly, I think if you have to ask if you need a $3000 ems, you probably don't... if you've done the supporting mods to justify it, you'll probably know what's needed to control them

[sharky]

basically, a turbo kit is on the cards, and its not a matter of if its when. Ive heard that honda ecu's can be extremely tempermental with other ems's when turbos a put into the mix. And Ive learnt the hard way about paying for parts that arent the best. Personally id rather sh*t hot than "what i need" when it comes to the ecu. I admit when you crunch the numbers its not the best power vs $$$ ratio but I want to go to sleep at night knowing when i start up the engine in the morning it will do just that.

[saxman]

basically, a turbo kit is on the cards, and its not a matter of if its when. Ive heard that honda ecu's can be extremely tempermental with other ems's when turbos a put into the mix. And Ive learnt the hard way about paying for parts that arent the best. Personally id rather sh*t hot than "what i need" when it comes to the ecu. I admit when you crunch the numbers its not the best power vs $$$ ratio but I want to go to sleep at night knowing when i start up the engine in the morning it will do just that.
well, my point was that for something like a mild turbo set up(or hell, even a rather built one), running something like uberdata, which is a free software, is going to be equally as capable as running some $3000 software. It's simply a case of it does everything you need it too... when you get into a situation where you start needing individual cylinder control for fuel and timing, etc, then you can start justifying the higher price, but there's no reason to spend more if you're not going to ever use the extra options.

[poid]

sharky, are you going with MoTec because thats what your tuner is most comfortable with? If so, thats fine. But if he is comfortable with something more in your budget I would suggest you go with another ECU. For example, an Autronic will be just as capable on your Honda and save you a bit of money in the process. As would a Haltech, or any decent ECu for that matter.

Just have a chat to your tuner, and make sure he is comfortable with what you choose. You will never need the capabilities of a MoTec however over any of the other ECU's mentioned

[wlee2]

well i see you got motec on the list so autronic aint to far.. off =P.. but i have plenty cars on autronic that run absalutely perfect (im bias to autronic though so =P)

i have seen 2 greddy emanage cars they both run perfectly fine. on the street
i seen a nice teg with a microtech in it..

all of them was through andy.. this in a span of a few short months, admitedly i dont go looking around out of the circle but i have yet to see many other ecus.. those 3 are the only ones i really know of.. well i heard of motec..but not seen one.. heard of hondata (along with the wild "rumors") but yet to have seen one.. like is said YET!! to have seen one..

they all work fine.. as long as it suits your purpose. your price and your goals..


but obviously as i said up above.. and all my other post (im autronic bias) get the autronic if you can afford it =P..


just as the rest of it goes.. i think someone mentioned its the tuner that makes the difference. the ecu just give you more options =P.. IMO

[sharky]

Fair enough Saxman, good point. I talked to a tuner here in adelaide (not pro ecu) who is very confident to tune a motec on my honda, he is motecs supplier and tuner here in adelaide. But also one of my best mates cousins is also a trained techy in motec. Bottom line im choosing Motec because they come with such an outstanding rep.

[pornstar]

Sharky, motec wont fail ya, if the guy knows what he is doing, and isnt a shittalker who claims to know how to tune, or have tuned so many that makes him a godlike tuner. I've seen one particularly fast motec honda, that Toda_au built and its farken fast :)

[sharky]

the supplier/tuner was pretty systematic in describing what needed to be done, how long and how much. My mates cousin has done the course but i dont know his experience, he has none hondas im assuming. He owns a jaw droppingly fast Motec tuned R34 GTR which he tuned himself.

[ah8118]

well IMO its just down to what u are comfortable to pay with and what u like... its your car dude! so, if you are comfortable paying out on a motec, like it, and can find someone confident in tuning it then go for it dude... some people who can afford it wants wats best for their rides... we've all been there.... good luck with your ride buddy!!!