1994 Civic VTi vs 1990 Corolla SX 20v

[2NTICN]

Hey i just got rid of my Integra but im looking for something smaller but still has sum balls? Now im a genuine honda lover and would love to go with a civic but im considering buying a Corolla Hatch SX 20V. They have a twin cam engine over the vti's single and i believe they have a tiny little bit more power? Anyones input is welcome...
thanks guys :honda:

[Hondavirgin]

Has it had the 20v engine swapped into it? I think they have a fair bit more power than the vti's if it does have the 20v engine and not the normal SX engine.

[2NTICN]

i thought all SX hatches came with the 20v engine dont they?

[bennjamin]

the 20v makes 120kw ( dont quote me) - and is very peaky with power delivery. Ive been told this engine is not that good to drive around normal street driving as it has such a narrow powerband ?!? IE sluggish around the streets. Id look at a honda IMO.

[Honda_Pda]

hmmmmz... go the honda civic..
has a better look to it...
well thats my opinion..
= )

[raff]

if u want twin cam just go an EG SI mate!

or save abit more cash and look for sumthin with a b16 ie eg converted or ek4

-RaF-

[2NTICN]

ben plz explain a little more? very sluggish round the streets? and narrow powerband? wat do u mean by this?

[spoondc2]

if u want twin cam just go an EG SI mate!

or save abit more cash and look for sumthin with a b16 ie eg converted or ek4

-RaF-

What engine does EG Si have?

[egSi]

eg si has zc dohc 96kw stock. bad ass imo ;)

as per 'sluggish on streets'

i think ben means u have to rev it to a certain point to make power
ie no revs no go.

[2NTICN]

i dont wana spend all that much though, if i had about $14k to spend id get a teg vtir, but im only 17 and i want a lil car that aint too expensive but still has sum gutz for what it is?

[Hondavirgin]

i thought all SX hatches came with the 20v engine dont they?

as far as i knew they all had the 100kw version of the 16v 4AGE.

[type one]

What engine does EG Si have?

ZC a.k.a D16A8

D16Y1 Vti and D16A8 produce same power on paper but on the road OH members favour the ZC...

[samsider]

corolla sx's are all 16V unless a conversion has been done.
But if the corolla ur talking about is 20V then id go with that over a civic anyday

[Vivski]

If you want cheap to run, the VTi is good on fuel.

[Honda 94 DANTE]

yeh im 17 and drive a honda 1994 civic vti ther gusty not to bad, i spent stuff al on it its all stock the only thing i have done is put a pod n get it tuned a lil.
i dont know nething bout corollas but to me i would go 4 the civic much better looking.

[FR33K]

im pretty sure the SX's are all 100kw 16v

i think the 20V rollas are the FX's
very rare though.. (arent they imported ?)

[chinkdood]

sx aint 100kw
only the japspec GTI rolla is 100kw flat
n i dont think rolla's came in 20v stock unless its the levins imported.
the older model rollas sx have around 80ish KW
im pretty sure but not 100% but i used to own the GTi n its signifcantly faster than the sx :P

[keric_02]

the corolla would be cool but i'd still stick with a honda

[egads]

yeah i used to have a 1.6 20v converted holden nova ae92 hatch (same shape as corolla sx), mated with a close-geared g/box. like some of the guys have said, power is all up in the higher revs and really isnt suited for daily driving hence the reason i sold it. dont get me wrong though, it was a fun little hatch with vvt :D

oh and normal ae92 corolla sx came with 1.6 100kw 16v engines

http://members.optusnet.com.au/yeavy/eevee/autos/nova5.jpg

[Stoosh]

brand loyalty! stick with the honda...might be a bit more sluggish then the rolla, but looks way sexier

[J-MuN]

no one flame me, havent read all the posts thoroughly but why dont u go a VTi-R instead of

the VTi?... if u want balls, the VTi-R has more than enuff...

[Civ_97]

if u want a corolla u could always buy one cheap at auctions with high mileage, then track down a 4AGZE and whack it in

[FR33K]

sx aint 100kw
only the japspec GTI rolla is 100kw flat
n i dont think rolla's came in 20v stock unless its the levins imported.
the older model rollas sx have around 80ish KW
im pretty sure but not 100% but i used to own the GTi n its signifcantly faster than the sx :P

maybe u should know what your talking about before u post mate

Make TOYOTA Family COROLLA Model Variant SX Power 100 kW Torque 147 Nm

[SPEEDCORE]

My my aren't we all an ignorant bunch! Just treasing :p

Seriously though.... anyone that says a 20V has a narrow power range has never driven one. Complete and utter BS. Do not let the information you have gathered about current celica engines be dragged across into the last generations of the 4AGE.

Also do not look at the Silver and Blacktop 20Vs differences as just 5ps. This is very very wrong. There was a lot of lightening of components in the bottom end of the B/T and also the head is vastly different... ports, quelch area... even the ITBs are different.

As for the way the engines feel driving them..... Silvertops feel like a 16V Redtop with good I/H/E.... blacktops feel very different and very strong compared to silverstops.

Claimed hp of these two engines I am very sceptical of.... especially the S/T The B/T I still feel got close to the 165 ps (clamied) I personally would say closer to 150hp.

As for choosing an old Corolla or a Civic..... hard choice.... to me power isn't everything.... and your more likely to get a more enjoyable ride (handling wise) out of the civic for the amount of $$$ you throw at it.

[egSi]

^^^ sif

[SPEEDCORE]

^^^ sif

Come again now?

[egSi]

Come again now?

hehehehe ;)

[type one]

finally i think the conclusion is got the Honda - well DERR we belong to a Honda forum, post this question up on toymods and see what they say.

[keric_02]

its hard to find a 20valve corolla... most times u'll hav to do an engine swap to get one

[FR33K]

like some of the guys have said, power is all up in the higher revs and really isnt suited for daily driving hence the reason i sold it.


guess the same could be said about vtec engines.. mainly the b16

[2NTICN]

so your overall verdict is.... go the civic vti, if u can afford it go a teg vtir, if u can find a 20v maybe take a look at it, but i wouldnt waste time with a 16v? hows that sound????

[egads]

so your overall verdict is.... go the civic vti, if u can afford it go a teg vtir, if u can find a 20v maybe take a look at it, but i wouldnt waste time with a 16v? hows that sound????

how about the si? twincam, though no "vtec" its still a tight package! :D

[spoondc2]

So which one are more cost effective?
Cheap corolla SX + 20V BT or cheap EK4 + engine work?

[SPEEDCORE]

so your overall verdict is.... go the civic vti, if u can afford it go a teg vtir, if u can find a 20v maybe take a look at it, but i wouldnt waste time with a 16v? hows that sound????

There is nothing wrong with 16V 4A-GE..... my whole debate behind the two is look at an EG from 94 then look at a corolla from 90. Most corollas from that age have had a pretty hard life and it usually shows in the body work.

spoondc2 "So which one are more cost effective?
Cheap corolla SX + 20V BT or cheap EK4 + engine work?"

Cost effective will be corolla with 20V..... if I was going the 20V in a corolla, I would try to source a AE82 "Twinky" as opposed to a AE92. "Twinky" in Australia originally came with a 88kw 4A-GE.... very good for its time for a 1.6 in the mid 80's.

The AE92 SX and GTi all had the 4A-GE Redtop which was 100kw (claimed). They are a very strong motor and will put up with a fair bit of abuse..... just look out for the usual tell tail signs of some young dickhead having owned it with the engine being bit tired and the gearbox well worn due to misuse and no regular servicing. Bodies on these corollas (AE82 and AE92) are getting quite long in the tooth also.

[Stroza]

ok ok.. since i've had both cars and motors ill be best to tell you the difference..

i had a 20v rolla seca SX.. pretty much stock and it went alright.. it was the blacktop 20v.. im assuming your buying the silvertop.

power wise the car go's alirght (stokc form), thats if you have the shorter ratio gear's.. if not your going to be revvin the car for ages to hit your rev limiter (8.2k silvertop, 8.5k blacktop)... that fact that the car has VVT makes it a smooth motor.

After some mods the car really starts to boggy.. aftermarket ecu, full exhaust, internal work and hello "Is that tacho reading 11k???" i know ive finished building a worked silvertop 20v. 0.5mm oversized piston's, newrings, new bottom end bearings, shoot-pinned and linished crank, metal head gasket, 320duration inlet cam 272degree exhaust side, custom adjustable cam gears that with inconjunction with VVT, heads been reshimmed, valves re-clipped, mild port n polish head and would be all tuned by a microtech computer...

As for the D15B motor/VTI car.. handled like a gun! power wise, not really that great.. even though i had a larger cam, exhaust and CAI.. what made the car seem fast was that it was light, and did i mention it handles as if on rails...

I would prefer the car too have a shorter ratio gearbox that uses that sweet VTEC sound..

either way it comes down to personal likes and dislikes...

i think acutally the 20v silvertop motor only make 105-110kws and the blacktop 110-115kws... Toyota quotes 120kws but since the motors aren't fresh from the factory you will see loses.

my own advice the 20v is the better of the 2 motors since it has more torque.. however the EG civic is better in the looks department.... The corollas shape seems too out dated.

[Stroza]

and just to get some clarification...

the 20v motor was never introduced/installed to the Austraian corolla engine bays..

these motor were only avaliable in the AE101/AE111 levin and onwards..

[aaronng]

Anyone has a vid of the 11k rpm redline of the worked 20v?

[spoondc2]

There is nothing wrong with 16V 4A-GE..... my whole debate behind the two is look at an EG from 94 then look at a corolla from 90. Most corollas from that age have had a pretty hard life and it usually shows in the body work.

spoondc2 "So which one are more cost effective?
Cheap corolla SX + 20V BT or cheap EK4 + engine work?"

Cost effective will be corolla with 20V..... if I was going the 20V in a corolla, I would try to source a AE82 "Twinky" as opposed to a AE92. "Twinky" in Australia originally came with a 88kw 4A-GE.... very good for its time for a 1.6 in the mid 80's.

The AE92 SX and GTi all had the 4A-GE Redtop which was 100kw (claimed). They are a very strong motor and will put up with a fair bit of abuse..... just look out for the usual tell tail signs of some young dickhead having owned it with the engine being bit tired and the gearbox well worn due to misuse and no regular servicing. Bodies on these corollas (AE82 and AE92) are getting quite long in the tooth also.

Hmm..... Sorry i don't really understand, so you mean to get a AE82 SX and put a AE92 engine on? or the way around?

You really make me interested :rolleyes:

[SPEEDCORE]

After some mods the car really starts to boggy.. aftermarket ecu, full exhaust, internal work and hello "Is that tacho reading 11k???" i know ive finished building a worked silvertop 20v. 0.5mm oversized piston's, newrings, new bottom end bearings, shoot-pinned and linished crank, metal head gasket, 320duration inlet cam 272degree exhaust side, custom adjustable cam gears that with inconjunction with VVT, heads been reshimmed, valves re-clipped, mild port n polish head and would be all tuned by a microtech computer...

Tell me more about the custom adjustable cam gear..... that still incorporates VVT! I've never heard of such a thing and have only ever seen your regular aftermarket cam gears for the 20V that end up losing the VVT.

11k rpm seems a bit optimistic with that setup..... where you even seeing power over 8800?

[SPEEDCORE]

Hmm..... Sorry i don't really understand, so you mean to get a AE82 SX and put a AE92 engine on? or the way around?

You really make me interested :rolleyes:

No such thing as a AE82 SX.... there was a AE92 SX. I was saying that if I was going for a FWD corolla with a 20V... I would try to source a AE82 "Twincam" aka "Twinky" over a AE92.

And by the way.... forget about it.... stick to your clio.... you will regret doing up an old car.

[spoondc2]

No such thing as a AE82 SX.... there was a AE92 SX. I was saying that if I was going for a FWD corolla with a 20V... I would try to source a AE82 "Twincam" aka "Twinky" over a AE92.

And by the way.... forget about it.... stick to your clio.... you will regret doing up an old car.

Oh i see... but isn't the AE92 have more power? What's the pros of the AE82 ?

And you are right, i am still fighting with myself for this

[Hondavirgin]

AE82 will be a lot lighter i'd imagine for one thing.

But if you've got a Clio, why you thinking of switching to a similar but older car?

[spoondc2]

AE82 will be a lot lighter i'd imagine for one thing.

But if you've got a Clio, why you thinking of switching to a similar but older car?

AE82 engine is lighter you mean?

Yeah I am switching car but since i have 2 cars so i am switching both

[aaronng]

Tell me more about the custom adjustable cam gear..... that still incorporates VVT! I've never heard of such a thing and have only ever seen your regular aftermarket cam gears for the 20V that end up losing the VVT.

11k rpm seems a bit optimistic with that setup..... where you even seeing power over 8800?
From what I know about the 20V, with 320º intake you're seeing no power below 6000rpm and everything above. You should be looking at around 240hp flywheel if you can spin it to 11k rpm.

[spoondc2]

From what I know about the 20V, with 320º intake you're seeing no power below 6000rpm and everything above. You should be looking at around 240hp flywheel if you can spin it to 11k rpm.

Takumi's AE86 !?!
240ps on engine
Group A spec
Rev to 11000rpm......

[SPEEDCORE]

You guys make it sound like a 20V can be tuned easily to the same specs of a Formula Atlantic.... :rolleyes:

So who wants to start actually building a Formula Atlantic 20V.... or even the old 16V Formula Atlantic?

Back about 4 years ago it was $5k just for the crank :o

[spoondc2]

You guys make it sound like a 20V can be tuned easily to the same specs of a Formula Atlantic.... :rolleyes:

So who wants to start actually building a Formula Atlantic 20V.... or even the old 16V Formula Atlantic?

Back about 4 years ago it was $5k just for the crank :o

Hahah i am not interested on that, someone did it in hk before and the engine end up rebuilding after each race. Yeah it does produce big power but people use have b16 could get similar power without doing much rebuilding work

I just want something for daily drive and don't want it to be too slow

[rakfint]

Is it just me or has this thread gone slightly off topic? haha

[aaronng]

Takumi's AE86 !?!
240ps on engine
Group A spec
Rev to 11000rpm......
Initial D is fiction man....

But this 11k 4AGE, there was one AE101 4 sedan in the Eastern suburbs with a 20V 11k redline.. crazy... To make power higher up in the rev range, you just need the right cams. Spinning at 11k without blowing the engine up, that takes the most work.

Back to the topic... Although I am a 20V 4A-GE fan, I'd still go for the VTi...

[Lokmok1234]

How much are you willing to spend? and if your are just looking for an everyday driver, the civic should be the go!. they can be be a very fuel economic car when driven gently, if you want it to go hard just add a vtec boost controller. The vti engine is a pretty good engine as revs are easy to get when needed. and you do get most power at 3000 rpm+.

[fusion_VTi]

eg si has zc dohc 96kw stock. bad ass imo ;)

as per 'sluggish on streets'

i think ben means u have to rev it to a certain point to make power
ie no revs no go.

sounds like a honda :p

[SPEEDCORE]

Back to the topic... Although I am a 20V 4A-GE fan, I'd still go for the VTi...

Agree :thumbsup:

[Hondavirgin]

AE82 engine is lighter you mean?

Yeah I am switching car but since i have 2 cars so i am switching both

no, the car itself.

[Captiva_Blue]

I had exactly the same dilema as you, I test drove about 5 Rolla SX and GTi (same car basically except for a few minor visual tweaks) and 6 Civic Si and VTi before finally settling on the '94 VTi and I haven't looked back.

The stock engine in a '90 SX (4A-GE 16 valve, 100kw, 5spd) is very nice and can handle almost anything you can throw at it..PROVIDED it has been well looked after, if not, it will eat itself from the inside out.

The car itself is resonably well put together but the overall finish and feel of the car, interior especially, is much better on the civic and the paint on the Rolla is prone to spider cracking if it has spent most of its life out of a garage.

The Rolla pulls well from down low and feels pretty meaty to drive as opposed to the civic which is quite peaky but the handling of the civic is far superior, it has a much lower centre of gravity and the suspension design of the civic is much more advanced than the corolla.

As an overall package, the civic is miles better especially if you consider that the Rolla is a fair bit older and you're unlikely to find one with less than 250000kms on it. If you're wanting to mod either one, the civic is a much better place to start from.

(BTW: AE92 Rolla never came to Oz with the 4A 20valve engine and 6spd box. Always gotta be careful when buying a car that's had a transplant coz you have no idea what shortcuts have been taken in getting it in there. If you get one, make sure you see all the engineering documentation and if possible, talk to the guy who did the transplant to get a feel for whether he/she is dodgy or on the level).

Happy hunting.

[greecegun]

I haven't driven a 20 valve AE92 or a 94 VTI but I did have a 91 AE92 SX 26V (stock) and now have a 96 Civic VTiR. Whilst I am not comparing apples with apples, the Civic is vastly superior in handling, braking and steering to the AE92. The new owner of the AE92 has spent $$ on the suspension, I've driven it and it still isn't very good. You have to lower and stiffen them to buggery and then they are not as usable on a variety of roads.

I reckon that even when the AE92 SX came out it wasn't very good suspension wise-even something like the Mazda Astina SP was apparently a lot better in this dept.

From what I have heard the handling of the older gen 94 Civics was also a lot better than the Corollas.

I'm sure a AE92 with a 20V or 4AGZE would go really well when flogged, but the handling of a car (which is just as important, even more so) with even more power than the 100KW stock version would be pretty scary...:( The build quality and finish of the Corollas is also crap compared to the Civics.

Stick with the Hondas:honda:

[Stroza]

You guys make it sound like a 20V can be tuned easily to the same specs of a Formula Atlantic.... :rolleyes:

So who wants to start actually building a Formula Atlantic 20V.... or even the old 16V Formula Atlantic?

Back about 4 years ago it was $5k just for the crank :o

TRD TUNED CRANK WILL COST 2.2K FROM BELLS GARAGE IN SYD...

as for the adjustable cam gears... they came with the motor once i bought it... i just changed the cams to much large duration...

the cams actually over lap during idle, giving it a sound of a rotor motor.. I have never been able to tune the motor but im sure it will be capable to rev to 11k.. dnt know about power wise??? i mean with sucha high revin motor cooling will be an use, also you dnt want the motor to seize up.. so i have also installed NEW bottom end bearings and with 20v's they work off oil squirter's, i have kept this and have gone to the extra expense of installing an oil cooler.

the 20v cranks are good and durable.. the one i have has been shoot pinned, linshed and balanced.. i dnt see how this can be an issue.

[Stroza]

Initial D is fiction man....


true but check this out... seems pretty much exact to the cartoon.

http://www.belperformance.com.au/gallery/galleries/AE86%20Cruise%2006-04/10.jpg

http://www.belperformance.com.au/gallery/galleries/Circuit%20Club%20Track%20Day%202/WP_0275.jpg

http://www.belperformance.com.au/gallery/galleries/AE86%20Cruise%2006-04/01.jpg

This one even has fujiwara tufo shop :) writen on the side.

http://www.belperformance.com.au/gallery/galleries/AE86%20Cruise%2006-04/cruise7.jpg