Re Adrian:Turbo charging Honda's

[deltaboy]

To Adrian and other members,

I am seriously interested in turbo charging the type R. Im choosing the AVO kit because it offers bolt on turbo's without changing too much internals. Avo kits are said to be durable and reliable because it was specifically designed for honda engines. However, i understand that custom made turbo's are quality driven but end up costing too much.

Speaking for myself, i think that many people here along with myself want the cheapest horsepower in the least amount of time money could buy. As bad as it seems the AVO kit offers something too good which could be decieving to motor illiterate (newbies) such as myself. what do you reckon since you know more about engines? For roughly 6-7k i could get an AVO bolt on turbo kit including exhaust and clutch change which will offer me a boost of 50kw, however, will this kit offer me the opportunity of more power if i choose to further mod the engine down the track? or will it become insignificant?

and another question i could not find a real conclusive answer to, what happens to v-tec when turbo kicks in at roughly 3k rpm while vtec kicks in at 5.7k rpm?

You've said that the turbo is too small for the 'bang your bucks dc2r' N/A setup, but you've also said that the AVO kit could also become a basis for a more powerful setup. If you have time, could you outline this setup or a more better one which would help curious newbies such as myself work their way down?

Taking into consideration that when we look at modifying cars, we are looking for the most efficient and reliable mods for long term benefits.

mistakes cost money and we cannot afford to make mistakes.

I've done a search here and found that AVO kits are quite popular. So if any members of this forum are interested in turbocharging their honda's then show your support of interest.

Thanks

[franki]

I want to get the AVO kit for my dc5r next year. but im scared itl ruine my motor. :honda:

[ian]

delta boy: i think as a beginner to turbo (as am i), a kit would be suitable. although, after doing a lot more research and speaking to the right people you'll eventually see which way is right for you.

franki: i have been told that if your car is correctly tuned, a turbocharged modification on your car will last as long as you take car of it.

[deltaboy]

delta boy: i think as a beginner to turbo (as am i), a kit would be suitable. although, after doing a lot more research and speaking to the right people you'll eventually see which way is right for you.

franki: i have been told that if your car is correctly tuned, a turbocharged modification on your car will last as long as you take car of it.

Ian, i totally understand that a kit would be suitable. however. I am just unsure that the bolt on turbo kit offered by AVO will give me future opportunities to enhance other engine parts or whether it will become insignificant if i choose to upgrade.

Basicly, for cost wise. Will it benefit me in the long-run.

i am seeking advice whether the AVO could offer me a more powerful setup and what it is as stated by Adrian of Toda Au 'Bang for your bucks Dc2r'. The AVO kit is mostly designed to work off the stock engine. What if there are further mods to the car such as a change in cams etc etc. will the AVO kit be good to use or will it become insignificant and ineffective.? Thats one of the point i am trying to stretch out.

I have yet to contact AVO dealers but i am assuming they will give me a more biased answer. so the question is out for all to comment on.

[wlee2]

IMO for the street the AVO kit is more than enough to give you a heart Thumpin..

doing internals if u wanna run HUMUNGO Boost =P.. which would prolly give the owners of the WRX and Evos next to you a heart attack

ohh and as for doing internal.. .. well thats really expensive itself =P.. its labor intensive.

one thing you goto ask yourself is what are you aiming for ? drag car ? street car ? race/street car or pure race?

avo.. mm they have that rollerbering turbo.. thats nice and fast spooling i forget though umm gt28R.. but yeh just read the above im just talking shit from this POint forward.. . <---- this point forward.. .. ...

[TODA AU]

For roughly 6-7k i could get an AVO bolt on turbo kit including exhaust and clutch change which will offer me a boost of 50kw, however, will this kit offer me the opportunity of more power if i choose to further mod the engine down the track? or will it become insignificant?

and another question i could not find a real conclusive answer to, what happens to v-tec when turbo kicks in at roughly 3k rpm while vtec kicks in at 5.7k rpm?

You've said that the turbo is too small for the 'bang your bucks dc2r' N/A setup, but you've also said that the AVO kit could also become a basis for a more powerful setup. If you have time, could you outline this setup or a more better one which would help curious newbies such as myself work their way down?

mistakes cost money and we cannot afford to make mistakes.


The AVO kit will deliver the goods on a standard engine.
As a straight bolt on kit, it is quite good.
It isn't however designed to suit a heavily modified engine.
In that, you are correct in sugesting it will deliver the desired 50kw gain, but when you want more at a later date. It won't be up to the task.

Regarding what happens to Vtec.
The answer is quite simple... Nothing.
The Vtec function remains & is at the core of why DOHC Vtec turbo engines make so much power for their capacity & why they are happier with turbo's generally found on much larger engines.

Regarding using the AVO kit as a basis for a more powerful setup,
This can certainly be done, but perhaps that should have read, you can make a powerful kit using the AVO cast exhaust manifold as a basis.
Almost everything else in the kit is not good enough.

Regarding making mistakes...
A zero error rate is alsways desired.
Using cheap parts & kit's can cause problems if you or your mechanic are faking it when it comes to knowing what they're doing.
I'll go into greater detail later... When I've got more time...
Untill then, what is your budget.. Really?
How much power do you really want??
& What are you going to do with it?

[deltaboy]

I believe a reasonable budget that many people USUALLY spend on their car
range up to 7k-10k over time. Thats after servicing and maintanence. However, because a lot of people don't get everything in one go so i know it is inevitable that they will exceed this budget due to other factors.

I've read somewhere that many people will aim to go for performance parts and will not realise that simple things such as coilovers and brakes should be taken to consideration.

So how much i would spend i could not give a direct answer because there is a lot of other factors i must aknowledge. So giving you a rough estimate i WOULD want to aim roughly around 7-10k. Its kinda hard to say how much because maybe someday down the track i might want to spend more or less as well as cost of changing brakes etc to suit the power.

This should be reasonable for most people here i hope.

How much power?

Well as much as i could punch out with the budget. by saying that, i want more power but less engine wear. so i WOULD sacrifice extra money to get better performance parts knowing that it may be a one off payment which may last me.

What am i going to do with it?

Simple hobby. I'd be lying if i said i didnt want to build my car to out run other cars.

Thanks.

[BLKCRX]

I always question any turbo kit, what’s the difference between a kit and a custom designed kit ?

To turbo charge a Honda you need the following minimum items (very basic list)

Turbo Manifold
Turbo + filter for intake part
Injectors
Intercooler (blah you could run without one but..) + Intercooler pipes
BOV (blah you could run without one but..)
Downpipe (turbo to your exhaust)
Oil feed / lines from the back of the block to the turbo, then a oil drain from the turbo to the oil sump
Sometimes also u need water lines
Plus a ECU to control everything

The hardest thing to do is choosing the correct parts, this is why cost factors can change more than 1000% this is why some kits and parts are cheap, and some are expensive. Quality does cost money !

Regards James

[franki]

but from what ive been told, the avo kit is good as its designed for that little bit extra. 50kw's. if your car is already quick but u just want that little more like me without haveing to spend loads of money for power that may not even be needed. :honda:

[BLKCRX]

Ill stay with custom all day every day, and keep repairing redesigning everyone’s turbo kits…

See the difference in a custom setup is Turbo A with X manifold runnin 6psi vs turbo B with X manifold runnin 6psi vs Turbo C with X manifold running 6psi could be differences from 110kw at the wheels to 220kw at the wheels... its all about the correct combination, not just what you can afford.

Regards James

[wlee2]

turbo C prolly cost alot more though =P...

[BLKCRX]

well u don’t get something for nuffin in this world.. do you.

[hong_ung]

hey guys
im looking into a bolt-on turbo kit myself
I got a qoute for a HKS bolt-on turbo kit for a dc2r
he qouted me $4900 jus tto supply the kit
it comes with everything except the intercooler, i asked bout injectors but he said the kit will run with standard injectors
the kit sounds pretty good for the price and the brand, but im also looking int the avo kit aswell

[deltaboy]

true, but have you got a reasonable setup which we could work on?

[DLO01]

Hey people. I have an Avo stage 2 kit on my del sol B16A2. I am very happy with it and the car is a blast to drive, if I had the choice again I would have gone a custom one. The Avo kit is expandable to a limit. The GT28R turbo is good for roughly 200kw at the wheels, which is heaps for a little civic, crx or delsol. If you do go for more boost with the Avo kit after you do your engine internals etc the things that would most likley fail is the rubber piping and clamps. Even when you strengthen your engine internals you might be happy with the GT28R, but hell your engine should handle more than the GT28R can offer, hence you'll be looking at a bigger turbo.

Ask yourself how much more grunt do you want. There are lots of factors. If your happy with a good gain, I think the Avo kits are good. If you think you'll want more get a package designed together. If your like me and lots of others, you'll get used to the new power and want more after.

Hope this helps. :thumbsup:

[wynode]

I see a good turbo kit package as being a mass produced custom kit :)

After all, they do their own research into it if you ask me (i'm not talking about ebay turbo kits though, things like Greddy is what i'm reffering to).

[DLO01]

I see a good turbo kit package as being a mass produced custom kit :)

After all, they do their own research into it if you ask me (i'm not talking about ebay turbo kits though, things like Greddy is what i'm reffering to).
Aye :thumbsup: I agree Wyn.

[wlee2]

I see a good turbo kit package as being a mass produced custom kit :)

After all, they do their own research into it if you ask me (i'm not talking about ebay turbo kits though, things like Greddy is what i'm reffering to).


ditto..

i love that AVO Kit with the GT28R only down side is the rubber tubbing but i think of it as an easy install rubber eisier to work with than hard as metal =P
(how much is that kit? im guessing close 7 - 8 k mark ?)

[deltaboy]

AVO stage 1 5,200 uninstalled - dc2 integra
4,800 civic uninstalled

[DLO01]

Just remember though that stage 1 at least for the civic and crx does not come with the larger injectors, larger fuel pump and stand alone Link ecu as the stage 2 does. Stage 1 uses the stock injectors, fuel pump and a piggyback. :D

[deltaboy]

could you mix and match parts. such as hypothetically speaking change the rubber tubing or perhaps intercooler etc. or must you use the kit AVO supplied with it?

[BLKCRX]

Yes you can jsut buy the AVO turbo mainfold... and select your own turbo ;) select your own intercooler.. n buy your own injectors ;-)

Regards James

[GSI-PSI]

but what were trying 2 say is that the AVO kit is pretty much sumthing 4 nothing wen considering how much money goes into some custom jobs. At the end of the day he just wants to beat a few cars such as a wrx and this is definately possible with even a stage 1 AVO kit. Now that was proven by myself in my dc4 gsi so if he has problems in a type r there must be something wrong lol. Trust me, Go the AVO kit.

P.S. What stage kit are u thinking of purchasing?

[Stoosh]

where can u find out some info on the AVO kits?

[GSI-PSI]

contact avo direct or look up their site

[deltaboy]

yes, but like DLO01 said, you'll want more power. Modifying is like cosmetic surgery.

AVO kits are indeed good for power. BUT, if you decide to upgrade internals, this and that. Then you will have a problem because what the kit offers wont be any use. so in the end its more of a cost issue. ie; with roughly 7-10k will i get the best possible setup which will enable opportunities to open if i choose to upgrade, or will i have to start over.

Turbo charging, 50kw all day everyday. BUT, say another turbo that costs more at say 1k extra giving you a boost of 100kw. what would you go for? but by saying that you might have to upgrade other things as well so yeh..=/

I also want to upgrade the internals as well instead of keeping OEM that AVO works on. As you know, upgrading internals offer greater KW so it would be bettter to get a turbo that you could use in conjunction with greater internals. this would = super KW.

but being amature at this, i might be wrong, there may be some way around this.

the AVO website could be found at:

http://www.avoturbo.com

[GSI-PSI]

look it sounds like u need 2 really sit down and speak 2 AVO and explain it all to them. Basically Leo from AVO has a stage 2 kit on his vtec civic and he has done all internals on the car 2. When u purchase the kit you have a choice of different powered gt28r turbos. These kits will definately be fine with engine upgrades. Upgrading your internals will only compliment the turbo's performance. And the manifold they use will enable u to put a T3 turbo if need be in the future. The only other thing u might need 2 replace is the ecu if u get a stage 1 kit because this uses a piggyback link whereas if u get a stage 2 u will get a complete ecu replacement. Stage 2 kits are more worth it if u are going to do future upgrades because u get 4 new high powered injectors and a heavy duty fuel pump. All kits come with extra injector. Oh and dont waste ya money on a blow off valve, u need 2 hear the tu tu tu tu come outa the teg :P

[wlee2]

IMO the AVO kit is heaps more than you really need for the street.. when u upgrading internals that getting hardcore =P.. this is the poin you start asking yourself.. ok i can beet 98% of the cars on the road now to take out the other 2%..

then again thats my opinion.. your welcome to really do what u want =P..

was there any reason u wanted to upgrade internals when stock internals can take u up close to like 10 psi on a vtir engine.. and thats already NUts..

[wynode]

yes, but like DLO01 said, you'll want more power. Modifying is like cosmetic surgery.

AVO kits are indeed good for power. BUT, if you decide to upgrade internals, this and that. Then you will have a problem because what the kit offers wont be any use. so in the end its more of a cost issue. ie; with roughly 7-10k will i get the best possible setup which will enable opportunities to open if i choose to upgrade, or will i have to start over.

Turbo charging, 50kw all day everyday. BUT, say another turbo that costs more at say 1k extra giving you a boost of 100kw. what would you go for? but by saying that you might have to upgrade other things as well so yeh..=/

I also want to upgrade the internals as well instead of keeping OEM that AVO works on. As you know, upgrading internals offer greater KW so it would be bettter to get a turbo that you could use in conjunction with greater internals. this would = super KW.

but being amature at this, i might be wrong, there may be some way around this.

the AVO website could be found at:

http://www.avoturbo.com
It really depends on what you want. You need to answer the questions that Adrian (TODA AU) asked you before about your budget, the application and what YOU want from a turbo kit.

For boosting your car at low psi on a low budget the AVO kit is good value for money. But if you want to do more, you might as well go for a custom job and get it done all at once.

Some people intend to just boost their car and then leave it like that. But once they start, one thing leads to another and they end up spending more $$$ and doing much more than they first anticipated.

So like Adrian said..........it all depends on what you want.

[wlee2]

ok sounds like you made your mind up already u wanna work the internals.. IMO the type R engine is a beautiful piece of work.. u really wouldent wanna deHONDArise it =P, when i say that i meen when u start replacing internals to me it starts feeling less and less like a honda. remember thats just My opinion

most people get shocked anyway when they hear boost under a honda. because its a rare site.. well in aus it is in america everyone has one =P.. im guessing when u said working internals im thinking lowering the compression to throw in more boost right ? forgeed internals ladiladida.. so on.

most people stop at bolt ons because of the cost. not everyone has the money. im not entirely sure you can do your internals as well as buying a turbo kit ecu, and tune it for 7 k either. unless u just meen the turbo kit..

your right 7 k isent alot to work with, but you could just up the boost =P.. IMO just go with the turbo kit and stay at that..

[wynode]

Nice speach but you seem to have this obsession with 'internal mods'. Rebuilding the internals won't necessarily give you more power but the main this is reliability for a boosted setup. The stock rods/pistons will handle boost for so long.

You are looking for a definitive answer but don't have a definitive questions based on what you want.

The AVO kit is a good kit to start off with, but if you want more..........then take it from there. YOur questions seem to be a mix of "I want the AVO kit because i'm on a budget and "But what if I want more after this". So it's hard to give you a precise answer.

If you want too bost your ITR and run more than the minimum boost taht the ITR can handle with an AVO kit, then you might as well do internals and get a custom kit that will suit how much power you want to make from the car.

[BLKCRX]

i didnt want to buy a kit which i will have to throw parts away if i change the stock parts to performance parts.

That’s the reason why you need to go custom !!!!

If you build your engine, the only thing you might keep on the AVO kit would be the manifold, if your talking serious boost, but even then there are much better manifolds out there take make way more power on the same amount of boost.

Its all about how much money you want to spend, and how fast / how much power you want to make.

Regards James

[deltaboy]

yes sir. LOL

do you have a good setup that we could all follow?

LOL Adrian said he could put out a bang for bucks turbo if he has time. and if there is enough interest.

So, is anyone here interested or is it just me?

[Javed]

Mate you seem to be beating around the bush. Like wynode said you have no definite q's its all rambling crap from what I can see. The kit will only last for so long, you need figure this shit out for yourself by going and speaking to people who will actually be doing the work on your car. There is no definite answer as it comes down to your needs. So go on hurry up and boost the mofo :P

[deltaboy]

Ok.

Forget about the previous posts.
It is from a newbie point of perspective. (me)

Aopologies if it has gotten everyone confused or mixed up.

Now,

Adrian has said that he will do a basic bang for bucks for turbocharging your honda's.
Although it only serves as a guide only, many of us who want to decide to turbocharge their honda's for that extra boost could undestand what is going on if they choose to do so.

is anyone here interested? if not then he will not do it.

so please show your support if you want this guide?

Thanks

[GSI-PSI]

just go AVO mate ;P

[Weq]

import a kit from the US
cheaper.

[BLKCRX]

If u wanta go above avo spec's one day, sell the kit down the track and make a loss on it, and start again !

The problem is thow there is no such thing as bang for your buck mods when you turbo a car... cut a corner and your car will have a higher chance of going BANG, or will make much less power !!

Take a simple thing like choosing a turbo manifold.. iv tuned more than 50 different types, from home yard , to custom, to cheap internet ones, to cast ones,, to the best of the best. Price ranges from 200$ for a home yard, to $3000 for the best.

One thing I can say thow the best DOES make way more power, at the same boost level on the same engine, on the same setup. Its just like NA headers there’s cheap X forces ones, or Expensive Toda Headers, and we all know Toda headers make the Best Power….
Boost is’t boost, its how efficacy you make boost, and how much power you make.

Its do it correctly the 1st time... or go home to mummy and cry.

Regards James

[[zeth]]

Ok.

is anyone here interested? if not then he will not do it.

so please show your support if you want this guide?

Thanks

A guide would be good Mr Toda :D

[franki]

yeh, im interested in adrian doing a turbo bang for buck, instead of argueing you guys are here to help each other, if i wanted that shit i would go to fast fours. i am interested in turbo charging my dc5r somewhere within the next 2yrs, so a bang for buck would be great. thankyou adrian for spending the time to help people, not argue with people. :thumbsup: :honda:

[staryknight]

Id vote for a turbo bang for your buck thread too, as i think most people who want to turbo their n/a hondas dont really know enough about it, and such a thread would be quite educational, so as to help people not screw up their engines, etc. All in your spare time of course Adrian. ;)

[TODA AU]

LOL...
No worries guys...
I'll do one over the weekend.

Sorry for not posting for a while, I've been flatout...
Working on something big... In the near future, all will be revealed...;)

[deltaboy]

Hows this?

I've done heaps of research and by far this is the best one i've come up with for a bolt on kit atm.

I spoke to AVO the other day and they explained a few things to me about the type R. (DC2)

With the Type R model you will need the stage 2 kit.
the stage 2 kit runs a full stand alone ecu 4 larger
injectors (500cc) + a larger fuel pump. The type R model needs more fuel &
better engine management as it put's out more power that is why you need the
stage 2 kit.

AVO Stage 2 Price supplied $ 6450.00 kit comes with fitting instructions if
you wish to fit it yourself.

The std DC2 clutch is not to bad we had a customer who had the std clutch on
the car with are stage 2 kit for about a year.

The kit comes with an air cleaner dual entry which works well but if you
wish to change that you can as long as the size is the same.

The stage 2 kit puts out 145-155kw's at the wheels with 8psi of boost on the
Type-R models.
The kit & turbo used is good for up to 200kw at the wheels. Turbo is a 320hp
ball bearing unit. for an extra $500 it can be upgrade to a 400hp ball
bearing turbo that is good for
220kw's at the wheels with modified engine internals.

Do you traders, mechanics and experts think this is by far a good deal?
Especially when i am going to change my cam kits etc to toda.