[Euro] Hondata Update

[aaronng]

Actually read these so Aarong you are wrong based on these articles. But this of course is based on the US model.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=1112&page_number=1

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=460&page_number=2&preview=

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=18&article_id=3967&page_number=1

Those 3 links say that the 350z pulls 14.3 and 14.1 second 1/4 mile times. That's much better than 14.8 seconds. :)

[staryknight]

So peekay how does the Euro drive in cooler conditions with JTune Extreme package ?

[EUR003act]

You can't compare numbers from different dynos. A 350z on a rolling road dyno pulling 155kW means a stock Euro put on the same dyno would show 105kW. Unless you get a gain of 50kW, the 350z will still be ahead.

i will have over 50kw gain form stock soon :) hopefully!

im aiming for most powerful n/a euro in aus :D

[aaronng]

i will have over 50kw gain form stock soon :) hopefully!

im aiming for most powerful n/a euro in aus :D

Go for it! We'll be waiting for vids too. :thumbsup:

[Peekay34]

Well just let me say I hope you have good tyres....... Also a lot of effort went it to this the car was even dynoed at 4:00 am in the morning to be certain for the sole reason of having intake tempatures at a stable cold level.. safe for the car also at lower temps the car made another 5KWS at the wheels.....

[EUR003act]

i made 130kw/atw in 6degree outside temp :p

ive devised for stages of mods... stage 1 is nearly complete! stage two will be done before christmas, and 3/4 before winter next year... by then itll be -4degrees in canberra, so my dyno will kick ass! lol

[Peekay34]

i will have over 50kw gain form stock soon :) hopefully!

im aiming for most powerful n/a euro in aus :D

Interesting well I think I am there already...... but you will have competition....

I will have The Jtune package extreme version custom tune up to 50deg cam angle, with new cam gears and soon some race cams

[EUR003act]

Interesting well I think I am there already...... but you will have competition....

I will have The Jtune package extreme version custom tune up to 50deg cam angle, with new cam gears and soon some race cams

competition is gooooood :thumbsup:

lol but i didnt think 50degree cam was good for the k24? isnt the piston to valve clearance way tooo close for that? hence why on the k24 the VTC only has 25degrees of change, but the k20 has 50?

im gonna grind mine out to about 40-45degrees of VTC :D

[EuroAccord13]

i made 130kw/atw in 6degree outside temp :p

ive devised for stages of mods... stage 1 is nearly complete! stage two will be done before christmas, and 3/4 before winter next year... by then itll be -4degrees in canberra, so my dyno will kick ass! lol


Nice can't wait to see it...

Althought I'm still skeptical about your 130Kws with those mods you did....



I can go on my dyno now and recalibrate the settings and make my 134kws read 180 kws on a 40 degree day if I want too LOL!

[EUR003act]

Althought I'm still skeptical about your 130Kws with those mods you did....

hahaha everyone is!

thats why next time ill get mine dyno'd along with peekay :p

[Peekay34]

Nice can't wait to see it...

Althought I'm still skeptical about your 130Kws with those mods you did....



I can go on my dyno now and recalibrate the settings and make my 134kws read 180 kws on a 40 degree day if I want too LOL!

Cheeky bugger ...you up for lunch this week.

[EuroAccord13]

If Peekay comes to a Dyno day I organise, he will blow the competition away... *thinks of a way to ban him* heeheeheeheehee.....

[EUR003act]

whats peekay got atw now?

hmmmm your all just bluffing :p lol jokes

[Peekay34]

competition is gooooood :thumbsup:

lol but i didnt think 50degree cam was good for the k24? isnt the piston to valve clearance way tooo close for that? hence why on the k24 the VTC only has 25degrees of change, but the k20 has 50?

im gonna grind mine out to about 40-45degrees of VTC :D

Depends how you go with the added quad throttle boddies that may be going on as well..

[EUR003act]

Depends how you go with the added quad throttle boddies that may be going on as well..

hahaha now your really pushing the friendship!! hahaha no fair

[xiang]

i just got back from my mates place.

i tell you what, the euro drives so nicely in cooler weather. i was impressed at saturdays demo. Cooler temperature makes a noticeable difference. Top end pulls and pulls and pulls.

Im enjoying the extreme kit so much.. i don't want to give it back!

[stephen8512]

Great write up sodaz

personally, after its all said and done, i wouldnt fork out 4K or however much it costs for an extreme package, let alone for a mild ECO reflash.
but nevertheless, its impressive and also a shock that Jtune finally after all this time released the package. many euro owners would've thought that the day would never come....but i guess u cant rush these things

that being said, personally i'd prefer a euro being a luxury cruiser rather than a sports car wannabe. each to their own

[Suntzu]

i made 130kw/atw in 6degree outside temp :p

ive devised for stages of mods... stage 1 is nearly complete! stage two will be done before christmas, and 3/4 before winter next year... by then itll be -4degrees in canberra, so my dyno will kick ass! lol

As much as i love my Euro brutha's here in the ACT, On the EXACT SAME dyno that EuroACT used, my car got 86kw at the wheels! So theres some seriously screwed up shit going on at that dyno. It was about 20c when i did it. My cars newer and has only 35 000km to boot.

Im actually looking for another ACT dyno thats decent for a run with my I/H plus Hondata.

Forget all that, why is there so few reviews from SAT? Im keen to hear more about the mild flash given Ive already pre - ordered.

[enkay]

hm, well i was on sat, but i came late and left early (had stuff to do) but yer, i didnt get to go in the cars i just really heard the exhaust (which imho is too big/thick, looks too big for the euro) and see the products which do look good and shiny =P
so yer i dont have any real impressions of the products really hehe

[E-Gene]

Didn't anyone take any photos at all?

[xiang]

ill probably be taking some photos tomorrow.

[tony1234]

ill probably be taking some photos tomorrow.
Jin.when do you have to get the Jtune gear removed?Haha,you'll be depressed after that!!

[xiang]

everything will be off wednesday morning.

haha, i know my car's going to feel so slow.

Ill be at the JDMST meet tomorrow if you guys wanna have a last look at it.

[tony1234]

Here are some pics.http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007002bt2.jpg
hhttp://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007003xt6.jpg
http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007004ao3.jpg
hhttp://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007001yw6.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007001yw6.jpgttp://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007004ao3.jpghttp://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007003xt6.jpgttp://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007002bt2.jpg

[Suntzu]

everything will be off wednesday morning.

haha, i know my car's going to feel so slow.

Ill be at the JDMST meet tomorrow if you guys wanna have a last look at it.

No.

You will get to work on your 14 page review with pics. Start now. thank you for your co-operation.:eek:

[tony1234]

Sorry some didn't upload.Disregard the 3rd.link.:o.I'll try again.

[tony1234]

I'll try again!!http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007003ti2.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007003ti2.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007001rq2.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17112007001rq2.jpg

[xiang]

No.

You will get to work on your 14 page review with pics. Start now. thank you for your co-operation.:eek:

im not one for writing detailed reports, but ill try!
soon soon

[Merlin086]

Thanks for the pics tony1234, I think that's my system hangin' on da wall....

Xiang, would appreciate some pics from the back to see the size of the tips, and under the bonnet would be nice.....

Thanks everyone for the feedback, great to finally have it all happening.

Many of us thought it would never eventuate....some dissapointed and some not, depending on the individuals expectations I suppose.

Anyway, looking forward to personally driving with the mods........

Thanks again all 4 your feedback

[aaronng]

everything will be off wednesday morning.

haha, i know my car's going to feel so slow.

Ill be at the JDMST meet tomorrow if you guys wanna have a last look at it.

What's on your car at the moment?

[tony1234]

Thanks for the pics tony1234, I think that's my system hangin' on da wall....

Xiang, would appreciate some pics from the back to see the size of the tips, and under the bonnet would be nice.....

Thanks everyone for the feedback, great to finally have it all happening.

Many of us thought it would never eventuate....some dissapointed and some not, depending on the individuals expectations I suppose.

Anyway, looking forward to personally driving with the mods........

Thanks again all 4 your feedback
No problem Merlin.That is the exhaust system you'll be getting.The tips are a bit big (as you'll see this Sat.)but otherwise it looks good.I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

[tony1234]

What's on your car at the moment?
Jin has the extreme kit.

[aaronng]

I want to see it tomorrow at the JDMST meet!!! Xiang. can you give me a ride around in your car?

[Omotesando]

With regards to the substantial loss in performance in hot weather, when compared to being in cooler weather:

Is it possible that the stock ECU in the Euro Accord adjusts the settings to be more conservative during hot weather, in order to make it safe for the engine?

What I'm trying to say is, if your car has had the Hondata JTune package installed and re-tuned, then that previous difference in performance during hot and cold weather, might have a much smaller discrepancy, when the packages are installed.

[aaronng]

Is it possible that the stock ECU in the Euro Accord adjusts the settings to be more conservative during hot weather, in order to make it safe for the engine?

Yup, the stock ECU does that using the intake air temperature sensor on the intake arm. :thumbsup:

[xiang]

Yeah, ill take you for a spin with j-toda..
lol, ill be in the blue euro, green p's.

and yeah, like tony said, extreme kit. =]

i thought you moved to melbourne?

[aaronng]

Yeah, ill take you for a spin with j-toda..
lol, ill be in the blue euro, green p's.

and yeah, like tony said, extreme kit. =]

i thought you moved to melbourne?

Yup, but I'm moving back because of work. I drove back up last week to look for a place to rent and will fly back to Melb on Sat.

[tony1234]

I want to see it tomorrow at the JDMST meet!!! Xiang. can you give me a ride around in your car?
What time and where is this JDMST meet,i'd be interested in going.

[Lukey13]

Ah, wouldn't it be nice if somebody took a basic video clip with their phone to show off the extreme package....

Perhaps a shot of the tacho and speedo rising during acceleration and also giving an indication (albeit a poor one) of how the package sounds. :thumbsup:

[Pumped]

Xiang, would appreciate some pics from the back to see the size of the tips, and under the bonnet would be nice.....



The tips are huge!
James did mention the final production tips will be 10mm less then the current ones they have i believe.

Still huge :p

Worried about them fitting in the holes probably when a rear skirt is installed.

[tony1234]

Ah, wouldn't it be nice if somebody took a basic video clip with their phone to show off the extreme package....

Perhaps a shot of the tacho and speedo rising during acceleration and also giving an indication (albeit a poor one) of how the package sounds. :thumbsup:
We were all too busy enjoying the test drive.:p

[Merlin086]

The tips are huge!
James did mention the final production tips will be 10mm less then the current ones they have i believe.

Still huge :p

Worried about them fitting in the holes probably when a rear skirt is installed.

According to James they are currently 110mm and will be reduced for the production run to 100mm.

So that will give you a diameter to work with.

[Peekay34]

The tips are huge!
James did mention the final production tips will be 10mm less then the current ones they have i believe.

Still huge :p

Worried about them fitting in the holes probably when a rear skirt is installed.

This kit was designed with the Honda genuine body kit taken into account there is no way you can cater for all forms of body kits that are available on the market. I have the genuine kit and it fits no problem. Do not go off the current fittment as an example. I have another photo that shows an better example of this at home but I will have to upload later. And yes the tips will be reduced in size by 10mm.

[Pumped]

Ive got a genune Honda rear skirt so if it fits that im more then happy :)

Look forward to seeing it :)

[Merlin086]

I just measured the stock tip and it is 85mm.

The curve in the stock rear skirt is >130mm.

Personally I am happy with 15mm over stock....not too excessive IMHO.

[aaronng]

100mm is pretty good. The question is... how long is the tip?

[xiang]

the tips are close to about 18cms from the baffle, but note the exhaust system is adjustable.

so currently on my car they exhaust has purposely been installed on a tilt just to demonstrate that the exhaust can be leveled, and not all wonky.

the exhaust can also be adjusted length wise if i recall correctly. So you can push the exhaust more in under the car. Or pull it out from the car.

did that make sense?

[Pumped]

:) it did.

Got any photos of the rear?

[xiang]

ill be back in about an hour with some photos

[xiang]

dammit, got the wrong usb cable

[aaronng]

What time will you rock up at P6 tonight? 7pm?

[EUR003act]

dammit, got the wrong usb cable

hahaha :thumbsup:

[tony1234]

What time will you rock up at P6 tonight? 7pm?
How did last night go?Aaron did you get to drive Jins car with the extreme kit?If so what were your thoughts?

[aaronng]

The extreme kit has BIG gains in the midrange. When you shift at redline in a stock Euro, you feel that the car lands in a torqueless zone in the next gear and takes time to build back up. The extreme just continues pulling hard in the next gear without fuss.

While the exhaust does seem loud at idle, it's surprisingly quiet at high RPM full throttle. The extreme is quieter than my car!

[Pumped]

It also seemed quite loud outside of the car but inside was fine!

[TRaNz]

The extreme kit has BIG gains in the midrange. When you shift at redline in a stock Euro, you feel that the car lands in a torqueless zone in the next gear and takes time to build back up. The extreme just continues pulling hard in the next gear without fuss.

While the exhaust does seem loud at idle, it's surprisingly quiet at high RPM full throttle. The extreme is quieter than my car!

So is it a thumbs up from Prof. Aaron?

[Suntzu]

So for those who have driven the mild and extreme. How many tenths you subjectively reckon it shaves of 0-100 kph?????

[johnprocter]

yeah did anyone time a 0-100 with extreme and with just mild flash?

[aaronng]

0-100km/h times are meaningless. That depends more on the driver and the amount of traction you have.

[Suntzu]

0-100km/h times are meaningless. That depends more on the driver and the amount of traction you have.

Ergo: So its cheaper and easier to change the driver than to mod the car?

Doesn't make any sense to me. I know i can drive consistently. So I know i can tell the difference. If i was about to drop $4000 and couldn't feel the difference in acceleration in someone else comparable euro then i would not be dropping the money.:(

I just after a general feeling on if it was substantially quicker or not really when getting on it from a standstill. Im not after exact verification.:)

[xiang]

IMO i feel that being a passenger in the car you wont get a proper feel of any improvement. I believe that you have to be in the driver's seat. That's what i let aaron drive the car.

And yes suntzu there is a noticable difference in accelleration. I dont have any numbers or times to tell you, but it is noticeable. You feel the car pull through the rev range fairly quicker than stock. The upper rev range is where you'll find alot of the tourqe.

My tyres are pretty shonky atm, but i found it was hard to get good traction in 1st gear at 80% throttle.

[jooboo]

I can’t wait to check this out on Saturday at the JTune Brisbane open day, I’m very excited about going for a drive. I hope everyone knows the time has changed from 12pm to 10:30am so don’t be late or you will miss out.

[aaronng]

Ergo: So its cheaper and easier to change the driver than to mod the car?

Doesn't make any sense to me. I know i can drive consistently. So I know i can tell the difference. If i was about to drop $4000 and couldn't feel the difference in acceleration in someone else comparable euro then i would not be dropping the money.:(

I just after a general feeling on if it was substantially quicker or not really when getting on it from a standstill. Im not after exact verification.:)
0-100km/h times are for selling cars. 0-400m times are what differentiates a fast from the rest.

[tony1234]

[/QUOTE]IMO i feel that being a passenger in the car you wont get a proper feel of any improvement. I believe that you have to be in the driver's seat.[QUOTE]
I agree.That's why i asked Jin for a drive.:p

[Pumped]

I dont think 0-100 comparison of Extreme vs Standard shows its true gains

Just from being in the passenger seat the real gains seemed to be when it got going.
Not that the guy launched the car or anything but it just felt considerably faster on the move then a stock euro.

I imagine it would just walk away from a standard car

[aaronng]

When you are at mid RPM and floor the throttle on a stock Euro, it feels like the car is just accelerating smoothly. On the Extreme, flooring it means a little push in the back, as if the car has quite a bit more torque. Basically, the difference is like going from a B16A to a B18C.

And I noticed one thing, the damn throttle lag was minimised by quite a fair bit! Also, the throttle response on the Extreme felt more like a cable throttle rather than an electronic one.

[Merlin086]

Handing over my baby this afternoon to get the mods fitted, pick up Saturday


On a sadder note..............



R.I.P.
MERLIN ( English Mastiff )

06/02/98 - 21/11/07

[ENVSSS]

Sorry to hear that mate...my thoughts go out.

[Peekay34]

Handing over my baby this afternoon to get the mods fitted, pick up Saturday


On a sadder note..............



R.I.P.
MERLIN ( English Mastiff )

06/02/98 - 21/11/07

Sorry to hear it as well. Pets can be a pain but they can be great mates as well.

[xiang]

Sorry to hear too.. 9 years, must suck dude.

Are you going to be the test car Merlin?
If so.. bring 2nd set of undies and extra petrol money!

[Merlin086]

Thanks for your sympathy guys regarding my English Mastiff Merlin, bloody paralysis tick!

But in regard to Jtune, apparently they will have the demo car for test drives, and the demo set on the wall in Sydney is going on my euro as Brissy is the last demo.

...apparently.....

[Suntzu]

Doesn't seem like there were many review or comments from last sat. How disappointing. Im not expecting a lot from the bris meet.

[Merlin086]

Doesn't seem like there were many review or comments from last sat. How disappointing. Im not expecting a lot from the bris meet.

Well, after a few short stints in Brissy, I just drove home 100k's, but...
most impressed despite getting stuck in traffic.
I'll head out for a good test run tomorrow and report back tomorrow night,
I'll post some pics of the engine bay and the tips from the back too.

So far the main thing I have noticed is a much more even rate of acceleration right through the power range, from right down low in the revs, with instant acceleration as against waiting for the revs to build again as per stock. Also a bit louder than I expected, but damn it's a nice deep note.
Anyway, I will do a more comprehensive right up tomorrow night with my impressions.

[ENVSSS]

If it is not too much to ask, how about a small video sample of the exhaust?

[Merlin086]

Did a sound test with my video camera, sounds natural so I'll do a video and post a link to youtube with a tacho shot with sound and a rear view with sound.....hows that sound......?...it'll be there by tonight.

[ENVSSS]

Did a sound test with my video camera, sounds natural so I'll do a video and post a link to youtube with a tacho shot with sound and a rear view with sound.....hows that sound......?...it'll be there by tonight.

That would be awesome! :D

[Pumped]

:) awesome, look forward to some pics/videos :)

[Merlin086]

Man, holy shit, all these derestricted roads within a couple of K's of home, had some fun today.
Bloody thing pulls like a loco, sounds like a V8 and even accelerates smoothly from 30kph in 5th gear. Even accelerates well from 85kph in 6th gear.

Couple of dash lights flashing on but have to get my ecu back yet in a couple of weeks, being a 06 they still have a couple of tweaks to do for the flash yet.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the long awaited sound demo.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEPp61UeaMA

Might try and get a "mobile" video in the next day or 2,try and set my tripod on the back seat..............hmmmm

[yfin]

Sounds good! I see they removed the 4500rpm fuel cut when the car is standing still.

[albii]

All this talk about how much harder it goes and dyno bullcrap are pointless.
I think the j tune guys need to get one on the dragstrip and see if it is quicker than the 15.3 i have seen for a stock euro standard.
The package will be sold on that proof and not the butt and dyno claims.
Give people the hard facts and let them decide if it's worth the buy.

[yfin]

I think the j tune guys need to get one on the dragstrip and see if it is quicker than the 15.3 i have seen for a stock euro standard.
The package will be sold on that proof and not the butt and dyno claims.
Give people the hard facts and let them decide if it's worth the buy.

They did it ran a 14.89. That was the manual lux verison and were struggling to get it cleanly off the line. Given that it ran over 100mph it must have potential for a better 1/4.

[Merlin086]

Sounds good! I see they removed the 4500rpm fuel cut when the car is standing still.

Cutout is at 5000 rpm

I run my stereo off my computer and it sounds excellent through my big speakers, but I suppose the sound will depend on the speakers you are running through.

PS
I am intending to run it down the 1/4 mile when I get my ECU back, and everything is running at peak...probably 2-3 weeks.....

[yfin]

Do you know why they changed that? It is not as if you can launch the car at 4500rpm anyway.

[Merlin086]

Do you know why they changed that? It is not as if you can launch the car at 4500rpm anyway.

To be honest I have never hit cutout before while stationary, so I didn't even know cutout was 4500rpm. Don't know why it is different, but I don't really find it relevant as I would't launch above 4000rpm anyway.

I'll definately ask James about that though...at feedback time...:thumbsup:

[ENVSSS]

That sounds hot, best sounding euro yet! I am a little concerned about how far the tips stick out from the car though...

[Merlin086]

That sounds hot, best sounding euro yet! I am a little concerned about how far the tips stick out from the car though...

They can be adjusted in or out on a slip joint.........:thumbsup:

[euro1986]

i can say merrlin086 car is awsome pulls all they way through 2nd and keeps pulling had great fun

Thanks mate will have to catch up on the cruz ur planning.

[xiang]

Do you know why they changed that? It is not as if you can launch the car at 4500rpm anyway.

when i had it on my car, cut off was still there at 4500rpm

[Merlin086]

Just posted a video from inside running up thru the gears, try and get a better one later this week.
Anybody know a good (free) editing program for windows that will clip and join mov.files?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdhjXY_8umU&feature=user

[TRaNz]

Nice, saw the other clip you had and dayymm, the exhaust sounds awesome as. Nice work for recordin and puttin up mate.:thumbsup:

[BiLL|z0r]

Nice clip. Pity the old Pac Hwy isn't 100 speed limit anymore, 80 is way too slow (esp for testing cars, hehe)

[Merlin086]

Nice clip. Pity the old Pac Hwy isn't 100 speed limit anymore, 80 is way too slow (esp for testing cars, hehe)

Tweed end 100k's.....:thumbsup:..Murbah end is 80k's

[Lukey13]

Thanks for posting that up. You're doing what Jtune themselves refused to do.

The in-cabin sound is quite nice! :honda:

Any chance of a video showing the speedo and tacho going along to the sounds?

[Merlin086]

Thanks for posting that up. You're doing what Jtune themselves refused to do.

The in-cabin sound is quite nice! :honda:

Any chance of a video showing the speedo and tacho going along to the sounds?

Damn, just can't change gears, steer and hold the camera at the same time, if only I can hold the camera in my mouth.....lol

Just have to organise a co-pilot....er.....photographer to sit in the back

Might try and get a outside approach and departure shot thru the gears too,
as it sounds to "the people in the street"

Give me a cpl of days.........:thumbsup:

[TRaNz]

Helmet cam....or something alike, get a hat, dux tape the cam to the hat....and sha-bang, you have helmet cam....just not with a helmet, but with a cap....LoL

[johnprocter]

merlin should work for jtune

[Merlin086]

merlin should work for jtune

LOL.......too busy drivin' my euro..........:thumbsup:

....and making movies......:angel:

[Pumped]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8523/accordee3.jpg
Thanks for the vids :)

So thus far it seems your enjoying it? :)

[Merlin086]

^....lol.....:thumbsup:

Man that cracks me up........rofl

Hard not to plant the right foot it sounds soooo niccccce.........

But even the ppl mowing their grass look when I do.........:eek:

But also enjoying what seems like massive amounts of torque.......:thumbsup:

Very easy to putter around town in 5th gear in "stealth mode"...:cool:

[Pumped]

lol there probably scared of all the extra Killerwasps!

all sounds good, hope it all gets done before christmas!

[johnprocter]

if i was $10,000 richer i'd get the extreme package and the comptech supercharger from overseas XD

[Merlin086]

if i was $10,000 richer i'd get the extreme package and the comptech supercharger from overseas XD

Never felt torque steer before now, I'd hate to think how you would get the power down.....upgrade clutch, LSD....etc..:thumbsup:

Need the Legend 4WD running gear...:p

[aaronng]

Even with the comptech SC, 1st gear will pull without losing traction in the dry. In the wet however........

[7ypeR]

Hey guys.

We helped put together Merlin's car on Friday evening the day before the demo. Something happened and the other distributor HondaCare ended up installing the kit.

All I can say (without offending anyone) is that the Euro is a bucket of sh*t from the factory. The kind of slow that makes you not buy the car. I went in the car before and after the conversion and let me tell you, the car is completely transformed. Let me say it again, the car is COMPLETELY transformed. As the others said, it pulls through all the gears, throttle is WAY more responsive, and low-end to mid-range has ALOT more useable torque. You no longer need to rev the crap out of it to get it moving. The car definitely has some good speed behind it. I even dare say that it would run head to head with any NA Type R's (depending on driver of course).

Thats my 2 cents anyways.

[yfin]

All I can say (without offending anyone) is that the Euro is a bucket of sh*t from the factory. The kind of slow that makes you not buy the car. .....You no longer need to rev the crap out of it to get it moving.

Somewhat of an exaggeration! Not that long ago an Australian made 5litre V8 was running the same 1/4 mile as the manual Euro (around mid 15). How people's expectations have changed...

And as for revving the crap to get it moving - I could also say I felt the same thing when driving a DC5R. Most Hondas need revs on board before the pace arrives.

[EUR003act]

All I can say (without offending anyone) is that the Euro is a bucket of sh*t from the factory. The kind of slow that makes you not buy the car

you dont buy a $41k euro because its fast... if you wanted fast youd buy a rex...

and as
yfin said above me, the euro still beats a fair few car with much larger engines...

ive had my go against DC5 type s before, and trust me, he didnt get away...

[Merlin086]

Quote:
__________________________
Originally posted by 7ypeR
"All I can say (without offending anyone) is that the Euro is a bucket of sh*t from the factory. The kind of slow that makes you not buy the car."
...
I have to disagree with the above statement.

The reason being that most euro buyers realise they are purchasing a "medium sized (and weight)family sedan" and do not expect sports car performance.

That having been said, personally I believe, as many other Euro owners would agree, it is a great car to mod due to the potential of the technology that is built into it.

The lack of power/torque for a car with the euro's potential handling etc is a disapointment for many owners as the car, with similar power to the jtune xtreme package, (from the factory) would make it very competitive in the "sports sedan category" against turbo 4's.

My main gripes with the lack of power/torque in after 1 yr of owning a euro
is the constant downchanging gears around town due to the lack of torque.

Also, with highway driving, using cruise control in 6th gear I manage to get about 6.5L/100k's, however having to change back to 4th or 5th to pass (as 6th gear is useless for this) I find it a nuisance to have to constantly reset the cruise control. Now I've got some mumbo in 6th gear!

Speaking of a 5.0L SS 179kw Commodore VT, I sold mine in January, to be honest I was glad to get rid of it, piece of crap...IMHO
I had traded in a V6 VTi 147kw 98 Accord, great car, crap gearbox.
Anyway, that got me hooked on Honda cars.(Always owned Honda bikes)

The funny thing is Euro, VT SS V8 and 98 Accord VTi all have about the same power to weight ratio.
So, my last 3 cars would all do theoretically approximately the same 400m times.
If I really wanted to get to 100kph as quick as possible I would get a 1000cc road bike and do it in under 3 sec.

Having been used to 6's And V8's, what I was missing was torque.
By upgrading the power on my euro, I am now getting the torque I was after, but also have a damn quick car down the 400m.(for a family car)

Interesting to do a power to weight comparison.
(close enough anyway )


Euro Lux 1440kg - 140kw =10.28kg/kw
Accord VTi V6 1480kg -147kw =10.06kg/kw
VT SS 5.0LV8 1800kg -179kw =10.05kg/kw
07CivicTypeR 1345kg- 148kw =9.08kg/kw
06 Accord V6 1480kg -177kw =8.53kg/kw
Integra TypeR 1160kg -147kw =7.89kg/kw
VZ SS 6L 1660kg -260kw =6.38kg/kw

Euro Lux 1450kg -196kw =7.39kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 40%gain)


Euro Lux 1450kg -182kw =7.96kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 30%gain)

But, personally I was not after a car that would blow off Rexys at the lights, but a car that was tractable at low revs, and not have to be contantly changing gears. Love driving a manual, but lots of traffic and my busted hip and pelvis gives me hell! (note-Honda motorbikes don't have air bags!)

Having ridden large capacity road bikes, I liken it to riding a 1000cc road bike, compared to a 600cc sports bike on which the gearbox gets twice the use to to the revs required.

Anyway, having had the opportunity to do a lot of driving in different conditions this week with the xtreme package, I can honestly say it has exceeded my expectations performance wise.
It has turned my euro into a beast....lol.....almost

Okay, now who's gonna shoot me down?...............:)

[cupnoodle]

Does anyone know what kind/figures of fuel consumption we're looking at with the Jtune extreme?

[Merlin086]

Haven't done a tankful yet but I've been testing with frequent redlining and my consumption is showing ....10.5L/100k's after half a tank.
I was going to report back after a tankful to do a proper check from full to full.
I live close to many 100k,110k and derestricted zones, hence many full throttle tests to.....ummmm...100kph......well, maybe 110, so I am surprised at the low reading on the odometer.

[cupnoodle]

Damn so much more power and not much more fuel consumption. Soso tempting...........just gotta convince the misses -_-

[Merlin086]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and reckon on my next trip I can still achieve 6.5L/100k's

I generally get around the 9.2 so leadfooting it reading 10.5 is, well, friggin' unbelievable IMHO, but a tankful will tell.

[BiLL|z0r]

+ since it's a new "toy" consumption is gonna go up anyway as your "testing" it. After a few weeks and you're used to the new power band it should go back to normal or maybe even drop as you press the accelerator less to generate the same amount of power.

[BiLL|z0r]

Well I went for a ride for a few hours with Merlin today in his Extreme JTune Euro so thought I'd give my feedback. First let me just say he had a box trailer on the whole time as he was picking up his old exhaust so he couldn't really give it heaps, esp around corners. Also let me point out the parts are not final production on this car yet so it could differ slightly but it's pretty damn close.

Pro's:
Much better low end torque and usable power band. You rearly need any thing above 6k rpm. You don't feel vtec anymore though since it's almost always on if you give it a lil bit of stick.

Con's:
Exhaust is waaaayyyy too loud IMHO. Unless you're in 6th and literally cruising with little to no gas you can here it. It is a nice sound, don't get me wrong, but I did have to raise my voice and repeat the odd sentence because of the exhaust noise. It's especially loud with the windows down.
James marketted it as a quiet exhaust so I'd hate to hear loud. The sound does resonate a fair bit through the cabin. I believe different manifold bushings are

Comments, not good or bad:
You can't hear the CAI over the exhaust. I do personally like an intake sound over an exhaust sound.
The exhaust tips are big but not overly huge. You certainly see other cars with cannon's that are bigger. It's a personal preference. It would be nice to have a different shape. I quite like the stock shape of the oem tips.

Would I buy it?
Unsure but it wasn't final parts and not a true test since we had a trailer on the back. I'd really like to try a mild tune to see the difference with similiar mods. The amount of exhaust noise did put me off a little as it's much larger than expected.

[yfin]

Euro Lux 1450kg -196kw =7.39kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 40%gain)

Euro Lux 1450kg -182kw =7.96kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 30%gain)

Okay, now who's gonna shoot me down?...............:)

I'll give it a go....

Sorry got to query those numbers.

If the Jtune hub dyno shows 125kw at peak stock and around 158kw with extreme that is 26.4% increase so around 177kw at the engine.

[Merlin086]

:thumbsup:
I'll give it a go....

Sorry got to query those numbers.

If the Jtune hub dyno shows 125kw at peak stock and around 158kw with extreme that is 26.4% increase so around 177kw at the engine.

I am only speaking theoretically, hence the "if", so until the dyno is done after my ECU is back etc, I can only speculate.

But, is it reasonable to quote a 30-40% gain at the flywheel as the comparison I am doing is using manufactured quoted flywheel KW?

Besides, Yfin, u r still the quickest here...by far...:thumbsup:

[aaronng]

But, is it reasonable to quote a 30-40% gain at the flywheel as the comparison I am doing is using manufactured quoted flywheel KW?

No, yfin's method of calculation is correct. You have to compare before and after readings on the same Jtune dyno to get the percentage gain, and then apply that percentage to the manufacturer quoted flywheel kW. So it's 177kW.

[Merlin086]

No, yfin's method of calculation is correct. You have to compare before and after readings on the same Jtune dyno to get the percentage gain, and then apply that percentage to the manufacturer quoted flywheel kW. So it's 177kW.

Sorry, but I can't do that as a comparison unless I put all the other cars on the same dyno...der...

Or would you like me to put them all down the 400m for u..............:eek:

[johnprocter]

so with the mild flash how much extra KW at the wheel would you get compared to stock?

[7ypeR]

And as for revving the crap to get it moving - I could also say I felt the same thing when driving a DC5R. Most Hondas need revs on board before the pace arrives.

Maybe it was just me then. As I said "no offending intended" or something along those lines :p . Look perhaps I may have over exagerated. The car (euro) just doesn't drive like 2.4L motor. There's just no torque there. I'm sure if you kept the car at boiling point, it would run with dc2's & dc5's. But what i'm talking about is the effort to bring it to vtec. The euro owners would know what i'm talking about.

P.S Why would you buy a rex, it's a subaru at the end of the day :eek:

[aaronng]

Maybe it was just me then. As I said "no offending intended" or something along those lines :p . Look perhaps I may have over exagerated. The car (euro) just doesn't drive like 2.4L motor. There's just no torque there. I'm sure if you kept the car at boiling point, it would run with dc2's & dc5's. But what i'm talking about is the effort to bring it to vtec. The euro owners would know what i'm talking about.

P.S Why would you buy a rex, it's a subaru at the end of the day :eek:

On contrary, the stock Euro has less torque when in VTEC than when at a lower RPM. :) Try 2nd gear. The Euro pulls harder at 4000-5000rpm than at over 6000rpm.

You have to remember, eventhough it is a 2.4L engine, it's still an inline 4. If you want more torque, it needs to be a 2.4L V6 or I6.

[sodaz]

The car (euro) just doesn't drive like 2.4L motor. There's just no torque there. I'm sure if you kept the car at boiling point, it would run with dc2's & dc5's.

The Australian DC5 engine is not really any stronger than the Euro's imo. It makes 147kw (only 7kw more) at a high 7400rpm and makes a lot less torque (only 192nm compared to 223nm). It needs more revs on board to get it going since it doesn't have the capacity. The only reason it's quicker than the Euro is because it's much lighter with shorter gearing.

[Merlin086]

On contrary, the stock Euro has less torque when in VTEC than when at a lower RPM. :) Try 2nd gear. The Euro pulls harder at 4000-5000rpm than at over 6000rpm.

You have to remember, eventhough it is a 2.4L engine, it's still an inline 4. If you want more torque, it needs to be a 2.4L V6 or I6.

I think you need to do some more reading aaronng and not continue to state your opinion as fact.

Try starting here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_ratio

Torque output is primarily based on bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine.

Search is your friend......:thumbsup:

[yfin]

so with the mild flash how much extra KW at the wheel would you get compared to stock?

Looking at the dyno the mild flash is more about gains below peak power and torque. The peak difference is not all that much.

Stock on hub dyno is around 125kw - with mild flash and intake it is around 132kw.

So that takes it to around 148kw at the engine (assuming stock is 140kw).

But I think the stock car is underquoted by Honda from the factory and probably is closer to 147kw than it is to 140kw. Or it could be the drivetrain is just very efficient as more powerful 147kw rated cars read similar to the Euro on the same dyno.

[ENVSSS]

I think you need to do some more reading aaronng and not continue to state your opinion as fact.

Try starting here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_ratio

Torque output is primarily based on bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine.

Search is your friend......:thumbsup:


I can agree with both Merlin086 and yfin in this discussion. I also own a SSS Nissan Bluebird with an I4 2.4Ltr, 112kw/210nm. It is a little undersquare compared to the Euro and I can definitely notice more torque than the Euro below 3000rpm but above that point the Euro is better, despite being a little heavier.

[aaronng]

I think you need to do some more reading aaronng and not continue to state your opinion as fact.

Try starting here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_ratio

Torque output is primarily based on bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine.

Search is your friend......:thumbsup:

With a 6 cylinder engine, you get more combustion cycles per rotation of the crankshaft, thus giving you the feeling that it is not struggling to build up torque and revs. Haven't you noticed that even an older 2.5L V6 or inline-6 revs up very willingly from idle when compared to the Euro's modern engine? :)

Bore and stroke defines the optimum range of RPM efficiency. Oversquare engines stay efficient at high RPM while undersquare ones are less efficient since they have a longer stroke but have better response at low to mid RPM.

[Merlin086]

With a 6 cylinder engine, you get more combustion cycles per rotation of the crankshaft, thus giving you the feeling that it is not struggling to build up torque and revs. Haven't you noticed that even an older 2.5L V6 or inline-6 revs up very willingly from idle when compared to the Euro's modern engine? :)

Bore and stroke defines the optimum range of RPM efficiency. Oversquare engines stay efficient at high RPM while undersquare ones are less efficient since they have a longer stroke but have better response at low to mid RPM.

Typical aaronng, there you go talking "feelings", I am talking FACT!!!


This article will explain it better than I can, especially as it is discussing the K series engines.

http://books.google.com/books?id=0rYGvv3fEuUC&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=engine+design+torque+stroke&source=web&ots=MB2tZz7N41&sig=Ny99LSlQDXtsbrk0xMvmn2gOYW0

[aaronng]

Typical aaronng, there you go talking "feelings", I am talking FACT!!!


This article will explain it better than I can, especially as it is discussing the K series engines.

http://books.google.com/books?id=0rYGvv3fEuUC&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=engine+design+torque+stroke&source=web&ots=MB2tZz7N41&sig=Ny99LSlQDXtsbrk0xMvmn2gOYW0
And here you are quoting a wiki article that has no references. Anyone can write a wiki article. I know I have. I don't trust wiki articles except for light reading unless they are referenced.

Remember, pistons and rods have inertia too. The higher the number of cylinders you have for the same capacity, the lighter the pistons and rods. The lighter the pistons and rods, the lower the inertia and you require less energy to increase their velocity (and RPM). ;)

If you are so adamant that the k24a being undersquare is the reason why it has more torque at mid-RPM, then tell me why does the b18c, which is also undersquare has most of its torque at the upper RPM range? Peak torque can be shifted upwards around using cams of longer duration and lift. It's not only dictated by bore/stroke ratio. Of course, in a k24a, it is also limited by poor filling efficiency above 5000rpm.

[yfin]

No, yfin's method of calculation is correct. You have to compare before and after readings on the same Jtune dyno to get the percentage gain, and then apply that percentage to the manufacturer quoted flywheel kW. So it's 177kW.


Sorry, but I can't do that as a comparison unless I put all the other cars on the same dyno...der...

Or would you like me to put them all down the 400m for u..............:eek:

Merlin - not sure what is unclear about what Aaron or I have said.

If on the same dyno the Jtune stuff shows 26% gain at hubs (peak)- that percentage increase can be used to work out the gain from Honda's figure of 140kw at the engine. 140 * 1.26 = 177kw

The thing is the peak power for the extreme package is not its biggest selling point. It is the gains lower in the rev range that are most impressive.

[aaronng]

BTW Merlin, did you read that external link in that Wiki article you posted? It says that you can't predict how revvy the engine is based solely on the bore/stroke ratio. Here is the link so you don't have to go through that article again: http://g-speed.com/pbh/bore-vs-stroke.html

[jooboo]

Quote from JTune website

“Dyno Results – The Extreme package provides maximum improvement for both power & torque throughout the rev ranges combined with a vtec point of 3148. Gains of over 45% are seen in both power & torque at 6000rpm. Peak power is generated by 6000 which is maintained all the way to Redline at 7200rpm”

In fact when you do the math’s 105.7kw vs 158.3ks @ 6000rpm is almost a 50% increase in power mid range, now that’s worth talking about !!!!!!!

Me and my brother were at the APC open day last week for JTune and went for a drive with Merlin and believe me the mid range performance is mind blowing, who cares about peak performance mid range is where we all drive, although still a 26% increase at peak power is still nothing to sneeze at.

I think Merlin summarized it nicely it exceeded his expectations and it exceeded mine for sure.

[Merlin086]

Just to clarify what I wrote....

"Euro Lux 1450kg -196kw =7.39kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 40%gain)


Euro Lux 1450kg -182kw =7.96kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 30%gain)"

Please note the "if"

It was speculation and not stated as fact.
Suppose I could have quoted 26% gain @peak (edit typo)
......................

"Torque output is primarily based on bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine."

Please stop reading into my statements what I didn't say!

Nowhere did I profess to be quoting accurate dyno figures as it was a theoretical comparison.

Nowhere did I state that factors such as cam angles, component weight etc, don't influence available torque, but it is a fact that the primary reason for torque output is bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine. Don't blame me!

[jooboo]

Just to clarify what I wrote....

It was speculation and not stated as fact.
Suppose I could have quoted 26% gain @6k rpm.
......................



At 6000 rpm there is much more than a 26% gain its a 50% gain.

[sodaz]

Keep in mind that between 6000-7000rpm the stock car makes an additional 20kw on the hub dyno. The Jtune car's power actually drops after 6000rpm.
The stock car has a dip at 6000rpm so it makes the numbers look even more significant (which is why they picked that point for comparison). Essentially what the extreme package does is it moves the peak power back and smooth out the power curve which makes the car more drivable but in terms of peak power gains it's not really that impressive. 177kw at the crank seems about right.



In fact when you do the math’s 105.7kw vs 158.3ks @ 6000rpm is almost a 50% increase in power mid range, now that’s worth talking about !!!!!!!

[Merlin086]

At 6000 rpm there is much more than a 26% gain its a 50% gain.

Oops...corrected.....:thumbsup:

Kick my butt pleez, my proof reader was at lunch........:thumbdwn:

[Merlin086]

Keep in mind that between 6000-7000rpm the stock car makes an additional 20kw on the hub dyno. The Jtune car's power actually drops after 6000rpm.
The stock car has a dip at 6000rpm so it makes the numbers look even more significant (which is why they picked that point for comparison). Essentially what the extreme package does is it moves the peak power back and smooth out the power curve which makes the car more drivable but in terms of peak power gains it's not really that impressive. 177kw at the crank seems about right.


Power curve?....there is no noticeable power curve...believe me....I have done a bit of testing this week!

I dare not speculate any more on the actual output of my car on a different dyno but the driveability is certainly more than 26% better IMHO, probably cause I don't drive around between 6-7000 rpm......

Now that would get some unwanted attention.......:thumbsup:

PS going to do a Db test from inside and out too.

[aaronng]

"Torque output is primarily based on bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine."
...

Nowhere did I state that factors such as cam angles, component weight etc, don't influence available torque, but it is a fact that the primary reason for torque output is bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine. Don't blame me!
No, the primary reason for torque output is NOT bore/stroke ratio. :) That is my argument. The primary reason is capacity, the 2nd reason is how well the engine breathes (both in and out). Bore/stroke is at best the 3rd reason.

Otherwise, why does the F22C with an 87 x 90.7mm bore and stroke (0.959 bore/stroke ratio) make 220Nm? That is almost the same amount of torque as the K24A's 223Nm using an 87 x 99mm bore and stroke (0.879 ratio). By your reasoning, the k24a should make much more torque than the F22C because it is more undersquare (by quite alot). Note, the K24A3 has a capacity of 2354cc while the F22C has 2157cc. Even with an extra 197cc and an even more undersquare design, all it can muster is 3Nm advantage? ;)

Bore/stroke ratio is NOT the primary reason for torque output.

[sodaz]

Power curve?....there is no noticeable power curve...believe me....I have done a bit of testing this week!

I dare not speculate any more on the actual output of my car on a different dyno but the driveability is certainly more than 26% better IMHO, probably cause I don't drive around between 6-7000 rpm......


The power curve I was referring to is the dyno's power curve. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The Jtune's curve is much flatter than the stock car which means there's no sharp drops or gains. The peak power is produced at a lower 6000rpm compared to stock (closer to 7000rpm) so for everyday driving it's better but if you're going all out the difference is not as much.

[yfin]

In fact when you do the math’s 105.7kw vs 158.3ks @ 6000rpm is almost a 50% increase in power mid range, now that’s worth talking about !!!!!!!


Since when is 6000rpm mid range?! :D

[sodaz]

Since when is 6000rpm mid range?! :D

LOL that's so true. Mid range is like 3000-4000rpm.

[Merlin086]

The power curve I was referring to is the dyno's power curve. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The Jtune's curve is much flatter than the stock car which means there's no sharp drops or gains. The peak power is produced at a lower 6000rpm compared to stock (closer to 7000rpm) so for everyday driving it's better but if you're going all out the difference is not as much.

Cool man, I wasn't contradicting you.
I was just saying that if you look at the graph, the "curve" is almost non-existent and that is how the car drives.
No noticeable vtec point, just a smoother,even rate of acceleration under power.

[aaronng]

Yes, I was very impressed as to how linear the Jtune extreme was. The bonus to this was when you shifted to the next gear, the car would then pull hard again without hesitation. That is something I haven't felt on other Euros even with other aftermarket I/H/E setups and piggyback tuning, even Toda headers!

[EUR003act]

Yes, I was very impressed as to how linear the Jtune extreme was. The bonus to this was when you shifted to the next gear, the car would then pull hard again without hesitation. That is something I haven't felt on other Euros even with other aftermarket I/H/E setups and piggyback tuning, even Toda headers!

you havent driven my car :p

lol jokes, my car has nothing below 5000.... and when you shift from 1st to second at 7400rpm, theres way too much hesitation before you feel it "pulling" again... :(

[phobolism]

On contrary, the stock Euro has less torque when in VTEC than when at a lower RPM. :) Try 2nd gear. The Euro pulls harder at 4000-5000rpm than at over 6000rpm.

You have to remember, eventhough it is a 2.4L engine, it's still an inline 4. If you want more torque, it needs to be a 2.4L V6 or I6.

why would a 6 cylinder with same displacement numbers provide more torque, itd just b smoother wouldnt?

[aaronng]

why would a 6 cylinder with same displacement numbers provide more torque, itd just b smoother wouldnt?

I'm not talking about peak torque (223Nm @ 4500rpm) but the actual torque at RPM lower than peak torque RPM. I find that in the Euro you get caught out with lack of torque at low RPM (waiting to hit about 3500rpm after which it pulls nicely), while a V6 or I6 of similar capacity doesn't have that problem and just revs up nicely. It's because a 6 cylinder has 1.5 times more power strokes than a 4 cylinder engine in each revolution of the crankshaft. At low RPM, the time in between power strokes in a 4 cylinder is longer than in a 6 cylinder, so you take longer to get the RPM up.

[EUR003act]

hence why the M3s I6 3.2L is such a beast!

[johnprocter]

just curious guys if i were to get the mild tune done and crashed one day etc would my insurance company be able to see that it has been tuned? and like not pay me out for the crash or whatever? thanks

[Suntzu]

Fark I wish theyd get on the the mild flash. Im super keen and my orders been in for a long time. Im hoping for a 15% increase with I/H and mild flash. As per their website. With the lighter weight of my standard and add 15% power I reckon ill be happy for my $1500 investment. Good BFB. :)

[Omotesando]

Just to clarify what I wrote....

"Euro Lux 1450kg -196kw =7.39kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 40%gain)


Euro Lux 1450kg -182kw =7.96kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 30%gain)"

Please note the "if"

It was speculation and not stated as fact.
Suppose I could have quoted 26% gain @peak (edit typo)
......................

"Torque output is primarily based on bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine."

Please stop reading into my statements what I didn't say!

Nowhere did I profess to be quoting accurate dyno figures as it was a theoretical comparison.

Nowhere did I state that factors such as cam angles, component weight etc, don't influence available torque, but it is a fact that the primary reason for torque output is bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine. Don't blame me!


I don't see the point of argument here to be honest, and without bothering to study the details of who is arguing with who and who has which point, to me, obviously a longer stroke engine (under-square) is designed to have more bottom end torque, so the torque curve distribution shifts towards the left side on a graph. In sacrifice, top-end power will be slightly restricted as the bore is narrower for top-end breathing, also, piston speed increases too much so it cannot rev as freely as a short stroke engine (such as F1 engines with around 2.5:1 bore to stroke, so the stroke is very short).

The theory goes that the ideal ratio is supposedly to be 1:1 as it has the balance of low end torque and high end revs, and the torque curve (which is 100% proportional to acceleration curve) will be flat. Think new 2.2L S2000 and the older Nissan SR20 engines. Good balance of everything.

Engine design, friction levels, number of cylinders, etc, are other parts of the equation but overall the bore/stroke ratio is quite relevant to the engine's performance.

And let's not be confused about 'peak torque' as I sense too many people get confused with. Here we're only talking bout torque distribution curve by design.

The Euro's success lies with the fact that it has good mid-range torque for a 4 cylinder NA but fairly adequate or even sporty top-end power/torque, with good revs on board for an 'under-square' design. Its not a conventional design but as a family sports car isn't usually over-revved, it satisfies 80% of Euro Accord buyers who need more low-mid range torque but still has high end torque.

Funnily enough, if you have driven the normal Accord 2.4L, in fact, that car has been tuned to have even more low-mid range torque than the Euro Accord version, despite basically same engine design, yet, that car lacks the high-end torque/power of the Euro Accord.

One could argue that the Euro Accord can be 'tuned' to have both better low-mid range torque like the Accord 2.4L as well as keeping the higher-end torque/power at higher RPMS. :p

[Merlin086]

^
Damn well written as a overall summary.........:thumbsup:

Shouldn't offend too many.....lol

[BiLL|z0r]

I've driven the normal 2.4L Accord and found it had no balls at all anywhere in the rev range. It was an auto though but that is also comparing to an auto Euro.

[Merlin086]

The diifference is

06 Accord VTi 2.4.....218 Nm @4000 rpm
06 Accord Euro 2.4...223 Nm @4500rpm

[aaronng]

The Accord 2.4L's engine has milder lowcams than the Euro and also smaller ports, narrower intake plenum and its highcam intake lobe much milder as well.

[Omotesando]

Thanks for pointing that out. So obviously that Accord is not meant to have been 'tuned' with as much higher end power by secondary design.

To me anyway, having driven a few Hondas to see the differences, the 2.4L Accord had more low end torque available than the 2.4L Euro Accord. Granted its not much.

BTW, I've always waited forever for Honda to release a performance coupe to outperform the M3s and AMGs and Audi S's. Now Lexus/Toyota has seen the dark side before Honda has.

[yfin]

Fark I wish theyd get on the the mild flash. Im super keen and my orders been in for a long time.

Didn't they tell you when this would be ready when you ordered?

[tony1234]

Fark I wish theyd get on the the mild flash. Im super keen and my orders been in for a long time. Im hoping for a 15% increase with I/H and mild flash. As per their website. With the lighter weight of my standard and add 15% power I reckon ill be happy for my $1500 investment. Good BFB. :)
From what i understand you won't be seeing it until approx. mid January.

[johnprocter]

just curious guys if i were to get the mild tune done and crashed one day etc would my insurance company be able to see that it has been tuned? and like not pay me out for the crash or whatever? thanks

can someone answer my question please :( is there anything visually different?

[Merlin086]

No nothing visually different, although driving it would be a giveaway.

[EUR003act]

No nothing visually different, although driving it would be a giveaway.

but insurance company would have no idea how a normal euro drives compared to a jtune flashed euro... besides, if your in a big accident anyway, i dont think your car will be driving anywhere afterwards... think about it this way, after a crash your car goes to a repair yard, there, a representative of the insurance company looks over your vehicle for any non claimed items... im 100% sure they wouldnt be able to tell youve got your ecu tuned... even if they could, it would only have been to fix you air/fuel ratios right? :p

[Tobster]

but insurance company would have no idea how a normal euro drives compared to a jtune flashed euro... besides, if your in a big accident anyway, i dont think your car will be driving anywhere afterwards... think about it this way, after a crash your car goes to a repair yard, there, a representative of the insurance company looks over your vehicle for any non claimed items... im 100% sure they wouldnt be able to tell youve got your ecu tuned... even if they could, it would only have been to fix you air/fuel ratios right? :p

Except for the fact that the car goes back from the repairer to a Honda dealer to have the ECU settings for the ABS, DSC, etc. reset (speaking from experience).

If you don't disclose everything to the insurance company (you'll find the clause in your policy somewhere), they don't have to cover any costs, and you may find yourself footing the bill not only for your own repairs but anyone else's too ...

[Pumped]

If you don't disclose everything to the insurance company (you'll find the clause in your policy somewhere), they don't have to cover any costs, and you may find yourself footing the bill not only for your own repairs but anyone else's too ...

Thats not exactly true,
theres lots of laws in place for which an insurance company would need to have solid proof that the non disclosure of a certain modification could have led to the accident/damage which occured.

It use to be how you say it but theres some pretty strong consumer based laws when it comes to insurance and denying claims, they may try to deny it but they have to have a pretty solid case in order for it to be completely successful if the claim is taken to court

[johnprocter]

yeah but if theres nothing visual then they wouldn't be able to tell.. because they dont have a stock euro to compare the drive with anyway.. (assuming the car is in a drivable state etc)

[tony1234]

It's not detectable by Honda scan tools so Jtune say.

[Suntzu]

Got an update. Its happening soon. Ill be o/s when it does but ill get my mild flash done when im away. So i wont be able to report in until late Jan. Im excited :)

[Pumped]

How soon? :p

any updates on when the Extreme kits are expected to ship?

[jooboo]

Updates on JTune

http://www.jtune.com.au/news.html

Civic Type R Mild Flash is due out 4th of Jan 2008 !!!

[Gibbo]

CTR due on 4th Jan... Havent we ALL heard this before ??? Lol to all those poor civic owners who are hoping to get it then...
On a less cynical note is any one doing a DIY with the extreme kit ? If things pan out and I keep my Euro I will most likely be getting the extreme kit but will have to fit it myself, due to my remote location. So any experiences or tips would be great. Cheers guys (& girls)

[ENVSSS]

CTR due on 4th Jan... Havent we ALL heard this before ??? Lol to all those poor civic owners who are hoping to get it then...
On a less cynical note is any one doing a DIY with the extreme kit ? If things pan out and I keep my Euro I will most likely be getting the extreme kit but will have to fit it myself, due to my remote location. So any experiences or tips would be great. Cheers guys (& girls)

Me too! I am doing my extreme pack myself. I'll let you know when I get it....:p

[Pumped]

CTR due on 4th Jan... Havent we ALL heard this before ??? Lol to all those poor civic owners who are hoping to get it then...
On a less cynical note is any one doing a DIY with the extreme kit ? If things pan out and I keep my Euro I will most likely be getting the extreme kit but will have to fit it myself, due to my remote location. So any experiences or tips would be great. Cheers guys (& girls)

Not sure we've ever been given a Firm release date before though, just a "coupla days" style response

If i go with the Extreme kit ill be installing myself

[enkay]

ooer

As of the 4th of January 2007 we will have our Ultimate Euro package available.

The ultimate package is an upgrade for all Extreme owners which includes the installation of Toda Cams and valve springs.

This package is designed for the all out NA fan, providing maximum possible power using the latest technology in exhaust design and cam shaft design.

Price $2500.00 + installation

For more information please email us info@jtune.com.au
http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1772

ultimate package =D

[cupnoodle]

ooer

http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1772

ultimate package =D

2500 on top of the 5000 for the extreme? that's steep..

[Merlin086]

I think I'm happy with the torque steer how it is!.....lol

[johnprocter]

hahaha wtf cant u get a custom turbo or some shit for $8000?

[aaronng]

hahaha wtf cant u get a custom turbo or some shit for $8000?

ECU would take up about $3000 of that, then a few hundreds more for tuning. Not much leftover for a turbo.

[johnprocter]

well how much at the wheel you reckon you'd total up with a euro after spending 8grand on it with this extreme and ultimate shit lol

[ENVSSS]

well how much at the wheel you reckon you'd total up with a euro after spending 8grand on it with this extreme and ultimate shit lol

Well if you look on the Jtune website it states approx a 15% increase over the extreme pack...so approx 180+ @ the hubs?

[johnprocter]

impressive but i dunno if its worth 8grand lol

[baboo]

whao...this hondata thing is still not available?

my goodness.......

[johnprocter]

it is available.. www.jtune.com.au

[Merlin086]

whao...this hondata thing is still not available?

my goodness.......

Should have come to the Brissy demo a few weeks ago and checked it out.

Got the full package on my car, could have taken you for a drive...:thumbsup:

[stephen8512]

Should have come to the Brissy demo a few weeks ago and checked it out.

Got the full package on my car, could have taken you for a drive...:thumbsup:

hahaha steve (baboo) has an R34 GTR. dont think he'll be lookin back at gettin a euro anytime soon

[sodaz]

hahaha steve (baboo) has an R34 GTR. dont think he'll be lookin back at gettin a euro anytime soon

HAHA so true. GTRs are on a different league altogether.

[Merlin086]

HAHA so true. GTRs are on a different league altogether.

Fair enough, but my car's not 4 sale anyway........lol

But I'm sure he wouldn't be the first to make the switch from a skyline...:eek:

.....or his missus might drive one(if he has one)..........:thumbsup:

...but then if he drives a R34 he probably can't afford one(missus)...:thumbdwn:

[sodaz]

Fair enough, but my car's not 4 sale anyway........lol

But I'm sure he wouldn't be the first to make the switch from a skyline...:eek:

.....or his missus might drive one(if he has one)..........:thumbsup:

...but then if he drives a R34 he probably can't afford one(missus)...:thumbdwn:

Baboo used to own a Euro and was one of the earliest modders from what I remember. He's also tracked his Euro a lot. The Euro's a great daily driver but if you're after some serious performance, the Euro isn't really that good of a platform even with extensive mods (unless you turbo it). You'll get a lot more bang for buck if you spent the same amount of money on the GTR.

[10KRPM]

8 grand.....that is expensive for 180@wheels.

now someone needs to make a turbo kit for the euro and do comparisons.

[johnprocter]

8 grand.....that is expensive for 180@wheels.

now someone needs to make a turbo kit for the euro and do comparisons.

i 2nd that

[yfin]

did someone say turbo?

http://www.nnomo-racing.com/honda_nnomo_produkte/honda_nnomo_fotos/honda_nnomo_turboteile/honda_accord_cl9_turbo.jpg

[johnprocter]

yfin i told u not to post pics of my car man wtf.. LOL

[baboo]

Should have come to the Brissy demo a few weeks ago and checked it out.

Got the full package on my car, could have taken you for a drive...:thumbsup:


I would've loved to take a ride in the hondata'd Euro.

Here's couple of videos when my euro was taken to the track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrt_H2bJsgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWj4mtmdmBM

If hondata was available back then, I'm pretty sure I could've gone a wee bit faster!:thumbsup:

[EUR003act]

did someone say turbo?

http://www.nnomo-racing.com/honda_nnomo_produkte/honda_nnomo_fotos/honda_nnomo_turboteile/honda_accord_cl9_turbo.jpg

please tell me you have more pics of that euro!!!! :D

[10KRPM]

more specifics please about the turbo euro.

what turbo?
comp ratio?
ecu?
intercooler size?
etc etc etc

[yfin]

see this thread for turbo euro
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46909&highlight=german

[Pumped]

Question to those that have had this system fitted to there car,
whats the exhaust noise like at Highway Cruising speeds 100-110km/h?
Any drone/annoying amount of noise?

[Merlin086]

Question to those that have had this system fitted to there car,
whats the exhaust noise like at Highway Cruising speeds 100-110km/h?
Any drone/annoying amount of noise?

Apparent on the youtube vid I posted.


Supposed to be rectified by changing the brackets on the production run.

Have advised James noise level needs to be reduced. He is developing inserts for the mufflers for a reduction of Db.

[Suntzu]

Im not saying much else except this..
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8043/ecudr2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and that im excited.:p

[EUR003act]

hahaha YAY!!! :D

[mr747]

so is there any results as yet??

[Lukey13]

So who would like to provide a review of their newly installed Mild Reflash?

[Pumped]

Did they actually get released?!!

Still heard nothing about the Extreme package, Dont think ill bother anymore, sick of waiting, 6-10 weeks turned into over 12 with no word and no replies to emails..

I think ill upgrade cars soon anyway

[Merlin086]

Did they actually get released?!!

Still heard nothing about the Extreme package, Dont think ill bother anymore, sick of waiting, 6-10 weeks turned into over 12 with no word and no replies to emails..

I think ill upgrade cars soon anyway


My ECU should be back from Jtune on Friday for the extreme.

Was to be beginning of February for the production parts to arrive, but James just told me today that there will be more delays due to manufacturing problems.

I've still got the prototype on mine, so I have no choice but to wait..:thumbdwn:

Haven't been able to drive my car much at 102db or else I won't have a license.......:eek:

[yfin]

There are posts from September 2007 during the pre-order where members are saying parts will be ready in 6 to 10 weeks.

So now Merlin you are advised of more delays? What does that make it - March 2008, or at least 6 months after the preorder? :confused: I just can't understand how this is possible.

[johnprocter]

its a very unique marketing campaign you could say

[Merlin086]

There are posts from September 2007 during the pre-order where members are saying parts will be ready in 6 to 10 weeks.

So now Merlin you are advised of more delays? What does that make it - March 2008, or at least 6 months after the preorder? :confused: I just can't understand how this is possible.


My guess is we can probably blame the FN2R entering the equasion ......:thumbdwn:

And too much talking up..........:thumbdwn:

[tony1234]

There are posts from September 2007 during the pre-order where members are saying parts will be ready in 6 to 10 weeks.

So now Merlin you are advised of more delays? What does that make it - March 2008, or at least 6 months after the preorder? :confused: I just can't understand how this is possible.
I agree.I'm trying to remain positive regarding the Jtune gear but they're not giving us much to remain positive about!!!

[Lukey13]

Having sent my ECU off for reflashing on Monday I spoke to Jtune on Wednesday and they advised they still hadn't done the reflash but indicated it should be done on Thursday. I hope so as going without a car from Sunday through until Friday is a hassle.

[Merlin086]

Having sent my ECU off for reflashing on Monday I spoke to Jtune on Wednesday and they advised they still hadn't done the reflash but indicated it should be done on Thursday. I hope so as going without a car from Sunday through until Friday is a hassle.


Good luck, I sent mine by overnight last Thursdayto arrive by Monday, and will apparently be posted today, Thursday. Four days for a reflash....hmmmm?

I expected to be running the extreme prototype for about a month from Nov.24 before the final production parts were fitted, now it looks like closer to 4 months.

But I can't drive around much anyway because of the 102db, shame they forgot to make it legal. After contacting the EPA I was advised that the limit for the 03-05 model is 90 and for the 06> is 82 db. However James tells me that the prototype muffler inserts have been developed now after voicing my concerns after I did the db test to EPA requirements.
Apparently it is much quieter now, but for a product supposedly ready to go after 2.5yrs developement, there has been far too many further delays, along with critical factors overlooked, such as legality.

A case of too many eggs in the basket?...or simply poor business decisions combined with too much talking up?

I'm looking forward to driving my car again when it doesn't feel like I'm driving in a drum on wheels.
Love the power and torque, but the noise is way too much after a short period in the car,once the initial novelty has worn off.

[EUR003act]

i dont know about NSW, but i thought in ACT that the legal requirement was 96db... and thats measured at 1m from the exhaust tip at 4500rpm...

82db is very quiet? i mean, i normal conversation is like 75db... im not saying your wrong, cause youve researched it, but it just seems realy low...

[Merlin086]

i dont know about NSW, but i thought in ACT that the legal requirement was 96db... and thats measured at 1m from the exhaust tip at 4500rpm...

82db is very quiet? i mean, i normal conversation is like 75db... im not saying your wrong, cause youve researched it, but it just seems realy low...


It is governed federally by the EPA, not sure about individual state requirements.

However I believe that the EPA would over-ride any state legislation.

To EPA standards it is measured at exhaust tip level or a minimum of .2m at a distance 0f .5m at a 45deg angle @4350rpm (for the Euro)

And yeh, my stomach growls louder than 82db..that's a ridiculously low level to meet. I intend to fit a Apexi ECV (just arrived @$225)to quieten down a further 10db for stealth mode.....:cool:

[tony1234]

The things i hear from Lukey and Merlin re:delays on reflash and so on make me reluctant to get even the reflash.:(

[aaronng]

It is governed federally by the EPA, not sure about individual state requirements.

However I believe that the EPA would over-ride any state legislation.

To EPA standards it is measured at exhaust tip level or a minimum of .2m at a distance 0f .5m at a 45deg angle @4350rpm (for the Euro)

And yeh, my stomach growls louder than 82db..that's a ridiculously low level to meet. I intend to fit a Apexi ECV (just arrived @$225)to quieten down a further 10db for stealth mode.....:cool:
The each state has its own EPA department. I can't find a website or any mention of an EPA department in the federal government...

From NSW EPA, it's 90dB now (used to be 92dB 1-2 years ago).

[tinkerbell]

it is governed in NSW by: Department of Environment and Climate Change

via: Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2000


Subdivision 1 Motor vehicles

13 Use of motor vehicles on road

(1) A person must not cause or permit a motor vehicle to be used on a road if the motor vehicle is capable of emitting noise at a level in excess of the maximum noise level specified in Schedule 1 for that kind of motor vehicle.

noise limits:


Schedule 1 Prescribed noise levels of classes of motor vehicles

Motor car
Any engine
Any mass
Any height

Before 1 January 1983 - 96dB(A)
On or after 1 January 1983 - 90dB(A)

testing proceedures:

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragview/inforce/subordleg+537+2000+sch.2+0+N

aarong - it never used to be 92dB

Merlin - the 80dB is the new FEDERAL adr compliance requirement, i.e. cars built after 06 must be designed to be 80dB...

and all cars complianced to ADR's must remain compliant, despite the NSW legislation beign contradictory... (at this stage)

[tinkerbell]

the new 06+ requirements are detailed here in ADR83:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/management.nsf/lookupindexpagesbyid/IP200511015?OpenDocument

ADR83 replaced the previous ADR28, which is detailed here:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/management.nsf/lookupindexpagesbyid/IP200614159?OpenDocument

[Seiken]

I'm having the same issue as well with the reflash and i had it sent off last week....these guys are absolutely f...king hopeless and told everyone that it would be a 24 hour turnaround on their own forums. The flash according to them take approx 1 hour.....

Emails don't even get answered when I ask about it, yet any other inquiry about purchases get answered within like an hour or so......

I needed my car for work and it'll be a week without it from tomorrow...

If you are gonna purchase anything from these guys, don't expect anything on time which you might have already deduced from this entire thread with all the delays and stuff.....

Here's hoping that i would get it back this week, but i ain't counting my chickens.....

[Pumped]

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/214801/2/Coffin_nail.jpg

I think all the negative feedback on there lack of service, the fact they dont write back to my emails and the constant lies about release date just really puts the nail in the coffin for me.

Im over waiting :)

Time for a new car me thinks :)

[Omotesando]

And how loud is Sharapova's shriek again? 102dB or thereabouts?

[aaronng]

the new 06+ requirements are detailed here in ADR83:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/management.nsf/lookupindexpagesbyid/IP200511015?OpenDocument

ADR83 replaced the previous ADR28, which is detailed here:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/management.nsf/lookupindexpagesbyid/IP200614159?OpenDocument
Ahhh, I see. Thanks for the info. The 92dB figure I saw must have come about when I was cross-eyed or drunk..... :zip:

[tron07]

my old sub can make 125dB without cranking the amp gain to even 50%...

I wonder what dB a ferarri makes.....

[Merlin086]

Ahhh, I see. Thanks for the info. The 92dB figure I saw must have come about when I was cross-eyed or drunk..... :zip:

..and surprise.. it's a Federal Law....:eek:

The figures I quoted were supplied to me by a Federal EPA Officer over the phone.

[tinkerbell]

it is a stretch to ADR's "law"...

the actual enforcement laws of the ADR's are state based.

the state laws make a breach of federal ADR's an offence. the ADR's simply describe the standards.

[tinkerbell]

learn more about Australian Design Rules here:

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/index.aspx

and here (small .PDF):

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_07_-_australian_design_rules_nov_2007.pdf

[Merlin086]

it is a stretch to ADR's "law"...

the actual enforcement laws of the ADR's are state based.

the state laws make a breach of federal ADR's an offence. the ADR's simply describe the standards.


Or put simply the states enforce the Federal Laws such as the ADR's.

[tinkerbell]

Or put simply the states enforce the Federal Laws such as the ADR's.

wrong.

put simply, the ADR's are not laws.

[Merlin086]

wrong.

put simply, the ADR's are not laws.




"Any new ADRs endorsed by the ATC will, subject to consideration by the Australian
Minister for Transport and Regional Services, be given force in law in Australia by making
them National Standards (ADRs) under section 7 of the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989."

........reference...........
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 83/00 — External
Noise) 2005
Explanatory Statement
Appendix A
2004 Regulation Impact Statement
(ADR83/00 and other standards)
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/6AB008009ABB6AA8CA2570BA00063460/$file/ADR+83.00+RIS.pdf


Anyway, the Jtune xtreme is 102db measured to EPA requirements..:zip:

...according to my db meter.....;)

[tinkerbell]

they are still not LAWS,

as it CLEARLY states in your post the ADR's are STANDARDS, to be given force in law, not as law...

sheesh! :zip:

[Merlin086]

they are still not LAWS,

as it CLEARLY states in your post the ADR's are STANDARDS, to be given force in law, not as law...

sheesh! :zip:

Would you be happy with...

"Federal Legislation enforceable in law by the states".....

......sheesh:zip:.....talk about getting technical....this ain't no court..

Seems like I had better zip my lip concerning this topic, even though I'm driving a car with the xtreme package fitted, and this thread is titled (Euro)Hondata Update.

Getting way off subject here.............:zip:

[TODA AU]

Merlin086 - Are you happy with how your car performs or not?

[tinkerbell]

Would you be happy with...

"Federal Legislation enforceable in law by the states".....

......sheesh:zip:.....talk about getting technical....this ain't no court..

Seems like I had better zip my lip concerning this topic, even though I'm driving a car with the xtreme package fitted, and this thread is titled (Euro)Hondata Update.

Getting way off subject here.............:zip:

mate, i am just clarifying the comments you made earlier today,

you are right - this ain't no court, but if you get pinged with a 102dB car - you might be in one (or james will be by implying these meet ADR requirements!!!!)

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7531&stc=1&d=1199938352

http://www.jtune.com.au/products.html

this is a breach of advertising laws (both federal and state) if it is false, misleading or deceptive...

[Lukey13]

Just got off the phone from James at Jtune and there's a big problem...

Unfortunately the reflashing equipment has been "frying" ECUs during reflash - two test ones and a customer's one.

James has offered to send back ECUs immediately and make arrangements for new equipment to be used in about 4 weeks.

Looks like the Civic FN2 reflashes are working ok. :eek:

[johnprocter]

loool who would of thought that the FN2 ones would be finished b4 the euro ones

[Merlin086]

Merlin086 - Are you happy with how your car performs or not?

Very happy with how the car performs, but the noise level within the car is unbearable after a very short period.
Subsequently I have driven only about 1,000k's in the past 8 weeks instead of my usual 5,000k's over that period, due to the noise level inside and out.

I too was of the belief that it would meet ADR's, having read the Hondatech website.
Obviously they got so rapped up in the dyno figures thay forgot to make it legal.

That having been said, and remembering that I am running the production prototype, I advised James of the db level shortly after installation, and he has told me he has had inserts manufactured for the mufflers which have apparently reduced the noise level considerably.

My understanding prior to installation was that it was the pre-production kit that was being installed on my car but has turned out to be the semi-final prototype. I have some serious harmonics happening in my car almost right through the rev range, but I personally believe this is due to the prototype headers being too short and I believe is too close and vibrating on the crossmember, although this has been apparently rectified by lengthening the header pipes for the production run.

My expected 4-6 week wait for replacement parts to make my car reasonably quiet inside and out will likely be 4 months.

It has been marketed as completed project but it appears far from it, but I supposed it should have been expected considering documented delays.

Probably my ECU that got fried...........:eek:

[yfin]

Just got off the phone from James at Jtune and there's a big problem...

Unfortunately the reflashing equipment has been "frying" ECUs during reflash - two test ones and a customer's one.


Alright fair enough... but why is this only discovered now? If you look at post #1 to this thread they were calling for "test vehicles" in May 2005.

With all the test vehicles and all the R&D since that time, surely such a critical aspect of the actual tune (ie the actual flash process itself) would have been tested a long time ago. :confused:

[ok2]

Alright fair enough... but why is this only discovered now? If you look at post #1 to this thread they were calling for "test vehicles" in May 2005.

With all the test vehicles and all the R&D since that time, surely such a critical aspect of the actual tune (ie the actual flash process itself) would have been tested a long time ago. :confused:

While all the delays certainly raise some questions with their manufacturing and/or business approach :eek: this latest one could just be a piece of equipment that has gone bad (assuming that it is not the same as used for the other ECUs).

Wonder what the story is the poor guy whose ECU was fried i.e. are Jtune going to replace it (including reprogramming of keys) or he out of pocket ?

[sodaz]

Unfortunately the reflashing equipment has been "frying" ECUs during reflash - two test ones and a customer's one.

James has offered to send back ECUs immediately and make arrangements for new equipment to be used in about 4 weeks.



All the delays and hype and now this....That's enough info for me not to get the reflash. Case closed. :thumbdwn:

[Omotesando]

I think if they guarantee that your ECU wouldn't get fried (afterall its bloody hot these days, certainly makes electronics more susceptible to frying), then there wouldn't be a problem.

It just seems like too many problems at once though..

[tony1234]

All the delays and hype and now this....That's enough info for me not to get the reflash. Case closed. :thumbdwn:
Yeah,me too.:(

[TODA AU]

Very happy with how the car performs, but the noise level within the car is unbearable after a very short period.
Subsequently I have driven only about 1,000k's in the past 8 weeks instead of my usual 5,000k's over that period, due to the noise level inside and out.

I too was of the belief that it would meet ADR's, having read the Hondatech website.
Obviously they got so rapped up in the dyno figures thay forgot to make it legal.

That having been said, and remembering that I am running the production prototype, I advised James of the db level shortly after installation, and he has told me he has had inserts manufactured for the mufflers which have apparently reduced the noise level considerably.

My understanding prior to installation was that it was the pre-production kit that was being installed on my car but has turned out to be the semi-final prototype. I have some serious harmonics happening in my car almost right through the rev range, but I personally believe this is due to the prototype headers being too short and I believe is too close and vibrating on the crossmember, although this has been apparently rectified by lengthening the header pipes for the production run.

My expected 4-6 week wait for replacement parts to make my car reasonably quiet inside and out will likely be 4 months.

It has been marketed as completed project but it appears far from it, but I supposed it should have been expected considering documented delays.

Probably my ECU that got fried...........:eek:
Really?
So you're happy & though your system is a prototype that you just had to have & not the finnished product, you feel like complaining anyway just for the sake of it.?
And a production replacement is comming to sort the noise out at no additional charge, yet here you are with all manner of negative comment?
You know your system is not the system refered to on the website but pretend you were somehow mislead???
Seriously, If it were upto me, I'd tell you to enjoy a cup of concrete.:thumbdwn:


As for the equipment failing,
Guys... Shit happens. It will be sorted, but shit happens.
Fair dinkum, you lot are going on like a bunch of little girls.:thumbdwn:
Think about it.


& don't start a shit fight over my comments.
It's nothing personal, just a reality check.

[EuroAccord13]

R & D testing of prototypes does obviously involve product failures and such. I understand the situation as I myself have been involed in numourous testing of prototypes in my previous rides that I have owned... There were successes as well as failures....

Mr. Honda himself said "Sucess is 99% failure"

If the prototype R&D works, good but in most cases, failures do happen, it's part and parcel of R&D.. We need failures to find the problem so we can solve it.....

[BiLL|z0r]

Failures are part of everyday and I think we all accept that.

Merlins gripe is the car is ILLEGAL to drive. Will JTune foot his defect bills? I doubt it. At no stage was Merlin told that the system will be perfect but legally for road use is important. If he had an accident (or worse) and his car wasn't legal then I would hate to be in Jtunes shoes.

I've riden in Merlin's car for several straight hours (as a potential customer) and to be honest I was put off the whole thing simply because of noise. Power was great but what's the point. The prototype is still there for the public to see, experience and HEAR. It may do more harm then good.

I'm sure Merlin accepted the prototype as was under the impression a final product wasn't too far away. Now we all know how good Jtune are with time frames and dead lines. I'm sure they are all nice people and very experienced but it seems to me they need to concentrate on current projects before taking on more and more and giving unrealistic deadlines. There are only so many hours in the day after all. I could be wrong but that's at least the impression that is given.

[yfin]

Really?
So you're happy & though your system is a prototype that you just had to have & not the finnished product, you feel like complaining anyway just for the sake of it.?
And a production replacement is comming to sort the noise out at no additional charge, yet here you are with all manner of negative comment?
You know your system is not the system refered to on the website but pretend you were somehow mislead???
Seriously, If it were upto me, I'd tell you to enjoy a cup of concrete.:thumbdwn:

As for the equipment failing,
Guys... Shit happens. It will be sorted, but shit happens.
Fair dinkum, you lot are going on like a bunch of little girls.:thumbdwn:
Think about it.

& don't start a shit fight over my comments.
It's nothing personal, just a reality check.

Merlin is a customer who is paying for all this. He says expected replacement parts would be 4 to 6 weeks. Now likely to be 4 months. Do you really think he needs a reality check? The noise is also unbearable - that is his experience - it isn't complaining just for the sake of it.

Of course equipment fails, etc. But it is unfair for you to have a go at Merlin and everyone else (the girls comment).

And are you commenting here because you are a dealer of the product (according to the Jtune website)? Or are you commenting because you genuinely believe Merlin is being unrealistic?

Members have been crying out for real customer experiences with this product for some time. Now we have some real world experiences posted and the dealers don't like the comments? You would have remained silent if Merlin had a glowing review.

[Merlin086]

Really?
So you're happy & though your system is a prototype that you just had to have & not the finnished product, you feel like complaining anyway just for the sake of it.?
And a production replacement is comming to sort the noise out at no additional charge, yet here you are with all manner of negative comment?
You know your system is not the system refered to on the website but pretend you were somehow mislead???
Seriously, If it were upto me, I'd tell you to enjoy a cup of concrete.:thumbdwn:


As for the equipment failing,
Guys... Shit happens. It will be sorted, but shit happens.
Fair dinkum, you lot are going on like a bunch of little girls.:thumbdwn:
Think about it.


& don't start a shit fight over my comments.
It's nothing personal, just a reality check.



Perhaps I should add a few quotes from the Hondatech site :-
.................................................. ...............................

"Our JTUNE exhaust system is designed to be quiet but producing maximum gains in power, drive ability and fuel economy."

"Sadly in today’s world gone are the days of loud exhaust systems as the law is being more and more tough, these days people opted for stealth installations. Our system has a few major primary goals, maximum power, in both mid range and up top, maximum drive ability, and increase fuel economy and most of all not overly louder than stock"

"All the Jtune equipment will be fully ADR37 tested and certified for both sound and emissions, making the upgrades legal within Australia. Final results of the performance increase will be released along side of the product release"
.................................................. ......................................

If you installed the system on someone's car leading them to believe it legal and they came back with a massive fine, and a defect notice.....I suppose you would tell them to.... enjoy a cup of concrete.

I suppose the point I am making is that I have a 50k car now that I can't drive cause someone forgot to consider legal issues....and I have paid $4,450 for a prototype having been told it was the finished product except for tailpipe diameter and rear bracket.
I was told my ECU would be 2 weeks and final parts would be 5 weeks.
ECU has been 7 weeks so far still waiting, supposed to be back today.
Was told on Wednesday that final parts will be another maybe 2 months making 16 weeks.
However, on the hondatech site another customer has just had the extreme kit fitted to his car with, I assume, the modified headers and muffler inserts.
I must comment that as a paying customer I feel let down that I will have to wait another 2 months for my car to be driveable while modified parts are being installed on new customers cars.

End Part 1

[sodaz]

Also keep in mind that when the quiet tips are installed it will also reduce the power output. The Comptech exhaust with quiet tips in barely outperforms (1-2hp or something) the stock setup so I would expect the same to happen to the Jtune system. The website promised a street legal product but before James got complaints from us he didn't even think of developing quiet tips. So if we didn't say anything the system will be released and installed as if it's legal. No one would suspect anything until they got pulled over by a cop and defected.

It's quite clear that this indicates that no proper noise related testing was done during development.

Things can go wrong during development (which is why they had test cars) but I expect the final product to be reliable. If they fry my ECU during reflashing who's going to pay for the replacement? Can you imagine the inconvenience and frustration that can arise from that? Imagine not being able to drive your car for a long time while waiting for a new ECU.

[Merlin086]

Also keep in mind that when the quiet tips are installed it will also reduce the power output. The Comptech exhaust with quiet tips in barely outperforms (1-2hp or something) the stock setup so I would expect the same to happen to the Jtune system. The website promised a street legal product but before James got complaints from us he didn't even think of developing quiet tips. So if we didn't say anything the system will be released and installed as if it's legal. No one would suspect anything until they got pulled over by a cop and defected.

It's quite clear that this indicates that no proper noise related testing was done during development.

Things can go wrong during development (which is why they had test cars) but I expect the final product to be reliable. If they fry my ECU during reflashing who's going to pay for the replacement? Can you imagine the inconvenience and frustration that can arise from that? Imagine not being able to drive your car for a long time while waiting for a new ECU.

In actual fact it would be illegal to take it down a drag strip in NSW which I understand have a limit of 95db, although measured in a different way to EPA requirements.

[aaronng]

In actual fact it would be illegal to take it down a drag strip in NSW which I understand have a limit of 95db, although measured in a different way to EPA requirements.

I think it's 95dB to the spectator stand. With other tracks, it's similar, measured to the edge of the track fencing. So you can be very much louder than the EPA's 90dB @ 1 meter.

Edit: For Winton, it's 95dB measured at 30metres from the track edge.

[Pumped]

Might be a stupid question but how the crap do top fuellers run then lol

[tony1234]

I think Merlin086 has every right to be pissed off.

[Merlin086]

I think it's 95dB to the spectator stand. With other tracks, it's similar, measured to the edge of the track fencing. So you can be very much louder than the EPA's 90dB @ 1 meter.

Edit: For Winton, it's 95dB measured at 30metres from the track edge.


I believe that's correct, I intended to do a proper test but I've been in hospital and don't have a ECU now.......I will when I get it back...

Although I have noticed when driving past people mowing their grass, even if I limit revs to 3k they still stop and look as it is obviously louder than their mower while revving.

[tony1234]

I believe that's correct, I intended to do a proper test but I've been in hospital and don't have a ECU now.......I will when I get it back...

Although I have noticed when driving past people mowing their grass, even if I limit revs to 3k they still stop and look as it is obviously louder than their mower while revving.
You're kidding.That's NOT good.:thumbdwn:

[Merlin086]

You're kidding.That's NOT good.:thumbdwn:

Yeh, personally I'm really pissed off now after comments from TODA AU such as .........

"And a production replacement is comming to sort the noise out at no additional charge"

Like I should have to pay extra to make it legal!!!.....get real TODA AU !!!

Quote from today's post from Hondatech............

.................................................. .................................................
"Adrian from Toda Racing Australia insuring total product compatibility and reliability for the Australian market for all our packages."
.................................................. ..................................................

...so TODA AU....you must be Adrian?


Comments like "Seriously, If it were upto me, I'd tell you to enjoy a cup of concrete."
...and...."It's nothing personal, just a reality check."

....hmmm, sounds pretty personal to me...but don't ask the question if you don't like the answer!

But sounds to me like YOU fXXXed up TODA AU!!

...and are getting defensive......!

[Merlin086]

You're kidding.That's NOT good.:thumbdwn:


And it's a shame I have to resort to my personal experience to justify my comments for TODA AU's sake.

His comments can only help to justify peoples' doubt in the product.

Shame they have people with an attitude like that involved at all, it can only be detrimental IMHO.

[baboo]

It takes 3 years to develop and still haven't finish.
that tells you that much about the product and ppl behind it.

sorry to hear about your experience Merlin086

[Lukey13]

This is now the 6th day of having my ECU sent away and it looks as though it still hasn't come in today's mail either.

By Monday it would have been 9 days without access to my car. :(

Such inconvenience is hugely frustrating when my ECU still hasn't been reflashed anyway.