Exhausts for VTi-R??

[Wazza]

I have been thinking about buying an exhaust system for a fair while now, and my pick would be a Mugen Header/Twin loop cat back combination, but I havnt been prepared to spend that much money for a car that is never going to go on the track, and because I am unsure of the power gains. I know you get what you pay for, but is the difference in price between say Mugen and X-Force really proportional to the power gains? I've listed some possible combinations below, and would really appreciate feedback from people that have these on their cars, with expected costs and power gains....

-Mugen 4-2-1 Header/Mugen Twin Loop Exhaust
-JDM 4-1 Header/Mugen Twin Loop Exhaust
-Toda 4-2-1 Header/Mugen Twin Loop exhaust
-Spoon/Vision 4-1 Header/Spoon/Vision Exhaust
-Apexi Header/Apexi Exhaust
-X-Force Header/X-Force Exhaust

I should add that I don't really want an overly loud exhaust, which probably cancels out Spoon etc

Thanks,
Waz

[kousoku]

deffiinatly spend the money on a header, but for the cat back, don't bother, any australian made cat back will give you similar results.
i have an n1 replica for sale at the moment in the parts for sale section.

if you didint' wanan spend over 1000 for the header then go xforce, or hurricane.
and if you want overall cheaper set up. buy 2nd hand stuff =D
up to you
the choice is yours.

btw. in a test, the toda headers came out with the largest gains, something along the lines of 9hp.

[hebe]

If you don't want an overly loud exhaust i reckon u should just get an axle back x-force twin loop and also like a stock ITR b-pipe...oh and x-force headers if you're on a budget else i reckon just go the jdm dc2r headers and get the heatshield too then you're set with a stock looking + quiet system :)

[kousoku]

read here: this topic has been talked about quite often.

-> http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152
and
-> http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152

[fried]

lol@ mo and alex promoting sales ;)

[kousoku]

lol@ mo and alex promoting sales ;)
i promote only quality products.
and only using this space as a promotion because it is also helping to solve thread starters problem ;)
:D

[Wazza]

Thanks for your input guys,

I forgot to ask if there are any other options that I havnt thought about?? At the moment I am probably leaning towards the X-Force setup, but am unsure on a few things. Is X-Force actually any good?? or just a take-off of other brands?? Will X-Force be any better than stock?? Are X-Force exhausts mandrel bent?? and what is the comparison in sound between an X-Force twin loop and a Mugen twin loop?? Finally, who is going to sell me one of these setups, as I am in Tassie afterall. I looked on the X-Force website but they dont have any Tas stockists, anyone on this forum maybe??

Thanks again
Waz

[kousoku]

for all your xforce goods contact a trader called egSi, awsome guy to deal with, he will steer you in the right direction. give him a pm. and yea. he will send any where in australia.

good luck man.

[Felix]

I just got XForce headers XForce Cat and XForce twin loop from egSI.
Am getting it installed next week.
I will let you know how it goes.

[Fattony]

Cant say my expirience with x force has been really good, but thats listed on another post, i paid about 620 for some edelbrock headers which are ceramic coated (this makes a big diff to engine bay temps) and also edelbrock cat back exhaust which i paid 720 for (yeh that was a lil to expensive) i would be willing to part with them at a loss, pm me if your interested

[Benji]

is there much difference in power gains between 4-2-1 headers and 4-1?

[Felix]

Yes XForce are mandrel bent!

[kOncept]

yes you've left out the options of 5zigen, but rare to get in this country my friend imported a set and the note of it is so... :honda: :honda: :honda: HONDA! :honda: :honda: :honda:

But personally if you got the money for it why not go TODA? or even MUGEN? They are the bling brands but that dollars are well worth it...

If you're gonna modify this car to the ducks nuts do it right the first time it'll save you lots of money upgrading from one to the other, i learnt this the hard way...

trust me your bank wont appreciate the withdrawals... :thumbdwn:

[ginganggooly]

I have been thinking about buying an exhaust system for a fair while now, and my pick would be a Mugen Header/Twin loop cat back combination, but I havnt been prepared to spend that much money for a car that is never going to go on the track, and because I am unsure of the power gains. I know you get what you pay for, but is the difference in price between say Mugen and X-Force really proportional to the power gains? I've listed some possible combinations below, and would really appreciate feedback from people that have these on their cars, with expected costs and power gains....

-Mugen 4-2-1 Header/Mugen Twin Loop Exhaust
-JDM 4-1 Header/Mugen Twin Loop Exhaust
-Toda 4-2-1 Header/Mugen Twin Loop exhaust
-Spoon/Vision 4-1 Header/Spoon/Vision Exhaust
-Apexi Header/Apexi Exhaust
-X-Force Header/X-Force Exhaust

I should add that I don't really want an overly loud exhaust, which probably cancels out Spoon etc

Thanks,
Waz


How about a smsp 4-2-1 header and a custom 2.5" exhaust?

I know a certain sydney-side dc2r recently made 10kw at the wheels with an smsp header and a stock exhaust system. A genuine 10kw at the wheels from a header.

I'd like to see if a spoon or toda could do that.

[sever_all_ties]

is there much difference in power gains between 4-2-1 headers and 4-1?

I dont think theres a huge diff in power gains. However, 4-2-1 makes better mid range, and 4-1 makes better top end so ive been led to believe.

[Wazza]

SMSP? on the net anywhere?

So who here has purchased an x-force product? And if you have, how would you rate it out of 10?

[Felix]

I have purchased XForce Headers / cat / and twin loop.
Havent got it installed yet.



SMSP? on the net anywhere?

So who here has purchased an x-force product? And if you have, how would you rate it out of 10?

[BF]

If price is an issue I wouldnt be looking at SMSP... To even consider SMSP you wouldn't have mentioned Xforce because the two are so far apart in terms of price, quality and gains.

For a comparison of major header brands...

http://bob123e.tripod.com/thegreatheadertest/

[Wazza]

I appreciate your help but everyones obsession with JDM is clouding their responses I think. Sorry I hadn't heard of SMSP before..

I know a JDM header will give me better gains than an X-Force header, but the debate is whether to pay say $1500 for a JDM product that will give me between a 10-15hp gain, or to pay $450 for an X-Force header that (I am guessing here) should at least give me a 5hp gain. Does anyone have any dyno results for X-Force products? What I am trying to get at is a dollar per hp gain relationship, which makes Toda, Mugen, Spoon for me (as I only intend header/exhaust/intake) a waste of money...

I have read bad reports about X-Force products not fitting properly, and requiring modification, who here has experienced that? And if it doesn't fit can't you send it back to the manuftacurer??

Waz

[BF]

Your right a lot of people will always say JDM. It depends what you want. Bear in mind it isn't possible to give u a definitive answer as to what difference YOU would get if you put an xforce product on or a JDM product. Your car is different to every other car and there might also be slight differences in the products - I would assume those differences would largely be limited to lower range headers though. Therefore any attempt to give you an accurate dollar per hp gain ratio is fraught with difficulty.

[ginganggooly]

If price is an issue I wouldnt be looking at SMSP... To even consider SMSP you wouldn't have mentioned Xforce because the two are so far apart in terms of price, quality and gains.

For a comparison of major header brands...

http://bob123e.tripod.com/thegreatheadertest/

from the original post, it sounds like he is considering "jdm" brands- if that is the case, then why not spend similar money for what would generally be regarded as a superior product. you'd be looking at around 1200 or thereabouts.

talk to smsp on honda-tech, if he doesn't send it himself, he can probably point you in the direction of a reseller that will.

[bubblecivic]

Well the thing with header is you definitely get what you pay for.

Xforce can be around $450 and Toda is around $1300 but when you work it out, Toda gives almost x3 the gains aswell. Quality is better so you will have it lasting longer and more gains!

Like what others have alreayd mentioned, spend some decent $$ on proven headers and just settle for a customer cat-back with a nice N1 muffler or so.

[BF]

From my understanding SMSP is USDM not JDM and they cost a great deal more than 1200. I was looking into it a while back (a year or more ago) and I think they came closer to $2000. The website (http://sms-products.com/Headers.html) says they are worth $1150. I'm not sure on the conversion and shipping on that, but its much more than the Toda or Mugen. You could always get the mild steel ones with the ceramic coating, they are $780 not converted and without shipping - you wouldnt want the mild steel without the ceramic coating. They might come in close to the Toda, but then they are not stainless steel.

Your absolutely right though. The SMSP is a superior product to many products. The following link does not support it as a superior product to the Toda...

http://bob123e.tripod.com/thegreatheadertest/

What I was picking up on was the fact he was talking about xforce and saving money and then mentioning the SMSP in the next breath. Moreover, considering the SMSP doesnt utilise the standard collector there is going to have to be some expensive custom work on any cat-back he gets - which raises more issues should he spend money on a good cat back, such as a mugen, if hes gonna cut it to pieces?

There are many more issues to go into regarding this header, but it is an excellent header!

[Wazza]

Thanks for your opinions guys,

I have changed my mind so many times, but have narrowed it down to 3

-Mugen 4-2-1 Header/Mugen Twin Loop cat back

-JDM 4-1 Header/Mugen Twin Loop cat back

-X-Force 4-2-1 Header/X-Force Twin loop cat back

Having no dyno results for X-Force products is heavily influencing my choice, as well people's bad experiences. Any ideas how much I should be able to pick up the Mugen system for? If anyone is selling one let me know.. As well, the JDM ITR header is about $850 isnt it? Are all the JDM ITR headers second hand?

Waz

[BF]

If you can get ur hands on a DC sports 4-1 (JDM version) it looks like an exact replica of the mugen 4-1. That might save you about 500-600 dollars?

[ginganggooly]

the problem i have with that link is that it is something around the area of four years old. things seem to have changed a bit since then. afaik none of the "quick" na cars out on honda-tech are using jap headers.

smsp has advertised mild steel header for $780-US including ceramic coating, it sounds like an okay buy to me. i don't know how much shipping would be though.

i wouldn't really be suggesting that he go with a jdm brand cat-back either, if he is really pedantic about the exhaust note then a universal muffler will be fine- with custom made piping, the only issue would be finding someone that you trust with a welder.

i guess it's all pretty useless debating it as there hasn't been a proper dyno test between a current smsp header design and a toda header (that i've seen anyway), and
at the end of the day, they are both products that most people would be happy with.

fwiw, rumor on the grapevine has it that smsp could soon have a local distributor. it may be worth sticking it out for a while and seeing if that happens.

[Benji]

would there be much difference in gains between fitting a jdm DC2R header and audm DC2R header to the VTI-r?

and in that review why did he wrap the header?

[BF]

Significant differences between the two headers, I would assume fromt he designs. Exact figures, who knows.

[Wazza]

Hey guys thanks for your help.
Ordered a Toda header and Mugen twin loop cat back today, will post some pics of the install etc when the parts arrive if people are interested???

[zen]

where you order em from bud?

[Wazza]

Toda Header from Adrian at Toda Australia/RUF Performance, Mugen Twin loop from Yonas at JDM Yard

[fabz]

hope get em sooon wana hear review :thumbsup:

[zen]

hey wazza how much you get em for? .. i might be interested in the future so keep us posted