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Chris_F
15-06-2005, 09:54 AM
Hey all,

I took my car for a drive after finally getting my stereo problems sorted out but it looks like my bad luck isn't letting up. I've noticed that the take up point of the clutch is further back than usual and that it doesn't seem to be gripping any where near as well as it use to. I've never driven a car from new before like this so don't know what it feels like to really wear in a clutch.

What do u think -

the clutch has somehow been damaged and may need replacment?

or

I'm a noob and don't know what a clutch feels like when it wears in?

I really hope its the second one becuase i know clutches are hard to get replaced under warranty :(

If I have to pay for a new one i guess thats an excuse for a racing clutch and lightweight fly wheel (probably cheaper than the real parts from honda)

EuroAccord13
15-06-2005, 10:22 AM
Does it slip in say 5th/6th gear when you are picking up speeds in the freeway? (TELL TALE signs of slipping clutch)

Not sure what you mean by the clutch engaging further back, do you mean further away from where you are sitting or when you are letting go of the clutch, it takes more travel of the pedal before you feel it grabbing?


Advice is, go to the Dealer and ask :D

Good Luck

Chris_F
15-06-2005, 10:59 AM
I'll have to try it out this afternoon when i get the car back. I've actually taken it in to honda already and i've asked them to have a look at it.


"it takes more travel of the pedal before you feel it grabbing" is what i meant to say (further back as in i have to release it for a greater distance).

Also when it does take up it seems to be a weaker "grabbing" feeling. It's quite noticeable and it's actually made it a lot harder to take off smoothly (without wheel chirp or bog-down) im just finding it really hard to find where abouts its grabbing on. The friction point also seems to last for a lot longer than what it used to.

Thanks for the advice euroaccord13, i'll let you know whats goin on when i get the car back this arvo.


I remember reading that somone on the forum had to ahve their clutch replaced after very few kilometers (similar to me at around 15,000)... to that person what did the clutch feel like when it started giving way?

aaronng
15-06-2005, 11:45 AM
Just wondering, do you have any creaking sounds when you press your clutch pedal in?

EuroAccord13
15-06-2005, 11:52 AM
In Reference to aaronng's post

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=324048#post324048

Chris_F
15-06-2005, 12:58 PM
nope no creaking sounds - had the master cylinder replaced at 10,000kms

aaronng
15-06-2005, 01:09 PM
Replaced at 10,000km? So you had the problem before that? Hmm, so it might have had up to 10,000km of accelerated wear. Well, keep us updated. I've also noticed that my clutch does not grab as hard anymore when shifting (normal driving, shift at 3000rpm). But I can still take off smoothly, and the clutch bite point has not changed. I had my master cylinder changed at 3900km, and I'm only at 8000km now.

VirIIx
15-06-2005, 03:08 PM
hmmm sounds more and more concerning.

when my clutch went bye bye, it slipped while i was in 5th and 6th gear, it went down hill from that in 1-2 weeks where the catching point was right at the top of the clutch.

I haven't noticed a creaking tho, maybe not listening hard enough.

My new clutch (oem) seems to be fine still, still very catchy in all gears (shifting around 3-4k rpm normally) but it feels about right. Only 4000km on the new clutch thus far and approx 14,000km total, old one died around 9700km.

Keep us updated for sure!

Chris_F
15-06-2005, 04:03 PM
I just got home from honda. The car is still hard to launch smoothly and liek you said virIIx the catching point on my clutch has moved further up aswell.

If its still a problem (which it will be) they are going to look into it further at the 20,000km service.

I'm at 15500km or so now and if the clutch goes this early surely it'd be covered under warranty?

VirIIx did they make you foot the bill for a new clutch? I don't see how you could be at fault after having only driven the car for under 10,000. I mean shit - my learner car (a corrola) had more of a bite to its clutch then i do now and it'd been used by beginners for 150,000 km or so.

Supposedly honda gearboxes are really reliable... Any more info on how the master cylinder may have caused premature wear?

aaronng
15-06-2005, 04:10 PM
It's halfway down this thread: http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6578&highlight=clutch+master+cylinder, posted by 97AcuraCL

Chris_F
15-06-2005, 04:13 PM
thanks

Chris_F
15-06-2005, 04:51 PM
holy crap... those threads on the TSX forum aren't very reassuring at all.

I have a really strong feeling now that my clutch is on the way out:(

At first i thought it may just be wearing in... but the car is getting harder to launch and changes between gears are much smoother than what they shoudl be... it doesnt even feel like the clutch is ren-gaging there is that little feel.

Pum[Z]
15-06-2005, 05:35 PM
The transmission on Honda cars has always been the weakest link in their cars. U have to really nurture it...

My clutch on the euro was gone when it was only nearly 5000 km. Had it replaced and i also heard that a S2000 was having its gearbox replaced under warranty as well when my clutch was getting replaced...

Well there has been a couple of users here in ozhonda that had to get their clutches replaced, plus many who had to get their master cylinders replaced...
It really is turning into a problem that us manual users have to take into account...

I hope Honda rectifies ur clutch problems Chris_F...

aaronng
15-06-2005, 05:58 PM
I'm not sure what those guys do across the pacific, but a few of them have disentigrated gearboxes (I think the count was about 4-6 last I checked), both auto and manual. I don't think anyone over in Aus have reported failing gearboxes yet (touch wood).

VirIIx
15-06-2005, 11:45 PM
chris_f, yeah.. i did pay for it.. took me ages to ring around and find out a cheap price.
took 2 DAMN weeks to get the stupid parts (shipped from japan) and i ended up paying
$1523.10 total. $340 of that was labour..

I have yet to take advice given and goto my solicitor and write a letter to Honda about it.

I'd rather put an aftermarket one in there - exedy - but anyways..

I wouldn't wait for your next service. I'd take it in and get it looked at ASAP. After that 1-2 weeks the car became undrivable, or should i say - i didn't feel very comfortable driving it.

Chris_F
16-06-2005, 12:04 AM
chris_f, yeah.. i did pay for it.. took me ages to ring around and find out a cheap price.
took 2 DAMN weeks to get the stupid parts (shipped from japan) and i ended up paying
$1523.10 total. $340 of that was labour..

I have yet to take advice given and goto my solicitor and write a letter to Honda about it.

I'd rather put an aftermarket one in there - exedy - but anyways..

I wouldn't wait for your next service. I'd take it in and get it looked at ASAP. After that 1-2 weeks the car became undrivable, or should i say - i didn't feel very comfortable driving it.

Thanks for that info.

I really cannot believe that you were made to pay for the new clutch etc. Wow nearly 1200 for parts is damn expensive aswell you can almost get a lightweight fly wheel AND a perfomance clutch for that money.

My electric mirror is going in to be fixed in 4 or 5 days and during that time im gona take the car on the highway and test it out a little - see how bad it really is. and then bring up the issue again. I actually took it in today/yesterday now and apparently someone drove it and couldn't find a fault which was suprising - to me the change is damn obvious.

If there is a serious problem with the clutch hopefully i'm not forced to replace it with the OEM honda part, i'll do my best to go aftermarket like you said. I never new honda gearboxes were so fragile, i mean shit I've given the euro a good rev every now and then but i've never done anything stupid with the clutch (not using it to stay stationary at hills etc).

just added a question:

VirIIx, was it just the clutch that needed replacing or was it other parts of the gearbox aswell?

VirIIx
16-06-2005, 07:21 AM
When they change it.. they change "everything" associated..

The Clutch, the Clutch Plate and 2 other bits which i can't remember..

I've heard nothing but good things about Honda's and their gearboxes, and it's spoken very highly of, i just believe I was unfortunate enough to have been given a dud perhaps :)

I'm giving it 7K more to see if there is a difference, but so far the clutch still feels better than the older one and i've *slightly* adjusted one way i drive, i don't gear brake as much as i used to, just using my brakes a lot more now - hey just like an auto driver :b

Someones they can't tell the problem when driving, especially when it's not obvious. But if it just slips while you're driving then you know it's worn, mine got to the point where even in 2nd and 3rd i could feel it unless it was a very smooth and light take off.

If it happens again to me, i say screw the warranty - i'm getting a 'real' clutch :)
Like you say, and i agree, an aftermarket performance kit would cost just as much.. and i doubt they would make me wait 2 fricken weeks

aaronng
16-06-2005, 11:52 AM
VirIIx, when you downshift to engine brake, do you match revs? I'm quite the opposite, if I am going to stop and I am in 5th or 6th, I don't usually downshift and then stop, I'll just slow down until I am around 1100rpm or so, then I either downshift to 4th or just shift to neutral. The only time I downshift to slow down is when I am turning a fast corner, and I do blip the throttle to match (although not successfully all the time).

I think it is good to post your experiences and driving style, so other owners who do the same can watch for any symptoms on their own cars.

Also, let us know what is the dealer's and Honda's stand on using an uprated aftermarket clutch with regards to drivetrain warranty.

h22a accord
16-06-2005, 12:31 PM
i feel sorry for you guys, its total bull that clutches are not covered by warranty...especially on a brand new car.

I give my car a hiding and the clutch never slips unless you ride it like a fool or totally disrespect it. I wonder if h22a clutches are any better than euro clutches...i would assume the euro clutch might be better being of newer design etc.

honda should do a recall and sort this problem out.

VirIIx
16-06-2005, 12:51 PM
aaronng, when i downshift i try to match, it's always nice to try and get it as smooth as possible, and like you, it's normally only when im going into a corner. Otherwise when stopping i'll go into neutral and brake.

Im normally in 5th gear at most nowadays, rarely go into 6th unless im doing over 80km/h and even that is questionable if i goto 6th - normally on a flat motorway.

but this is an interesting topic, because there are a lot of different ways people drive and also there is a wide variation in opinion as to what they feel is right or not, and what effects it might have.

aaronng
16-06-2005, 01:05 PM
VirIIx, in that case, then my driving style is similar to yours. I'll be looking out for any clutch problems. Since I am a low mileage driver (7000km in 6 months), maybe I can have a slightly better chance in getting it covered under warranty if it happens to me. If successful, then Honda will get a report that the problem is a design fault and not user fault.

Before, when I let go of the clutch quick, the car would jerk suddenly because the revs were not matched. Now when I do the same, I can see that the car does not jerk as rough, but rather the engine revs change to match the speed. I wonder if this is a sign of clutch wear or insufficient clutch pressure?

VirIIx
16-06-2005, 01:24 PM
yes.. i get the jerking on the offhand but i assume that it's just me being clumsy and too quick off the clutch.

plus i usually notice it happens when im in the higher revs 4000+, though i believe that's because it's spinning faster so it's a bit of an obvious one there.

Chris_F
16-06-2005, 07:49 PM
aaronng - thats a similar feel to what i'm talking about it doesnt seem as jerky or as bighty and it may just be due to the clutch wearing in (im hoping thats what mine is)

anyway...

I took my car in to northfield car sound today to get a few problems fixed (cracked cupholder from installing the aux input and some electircal problems)
and for some reason my transmission feels quite different again.

The clutch feel seems to have returned to some degree and my gear changes which were feeling increasingly easy to engage into gears (even with the shortshifter which generally makes it harder!) also returned closely to how they used to be.

I should point out that my 'loose' feeling clutch and gear-shifts started after i had my front speakers installed. Northfield took the car into northside honda for me and gave me a loan car for the day at no charge whilst sorting out the few remaining problems.

Could it be that the fault in the cars electical system was causing the clutch and gear syncros to behave strangley? The verdict is still out on the clutch but i've definitely noticed an improvement in shift feel. Very strange! but good to have Eurio back in good health:D

stephen8512
16-06-2005, 10:43 PM
sorry for being noob but what do u guys mean when u say "does the clutch slip" ?
slip??? how so?

EuroAccord13
16-06-2005, 11:12 PM
sorry for being noob but what do u guys mean when u say "does the clutch slip" ?
slip??? how so?


When it gets slippery and slips and falls off to the ground :wave: ...

Joking... hehehe

Another tell tale sign is when you engage a gear and start to move off, the revs goes up but your speed doesn't... The feeling of the clutch not engaging... and it sometimes takes a while to engage after u drop the clutch...(revs rises, then drops to match speed or vice versa)

jl88rl
16-06-2005, 11:14 PM
It is also harder to stall so if ur gf decides to learn manual... best oppurtunity.

Then buy an aftermarket one maybe with lighter flywheel too :)