Jazz as a Performance Vehicle?

[**Ghost**]

Hi guys, as some of you might know i already own an Ek4 so the following question is actually asked on behalf of my cousin.


He asking the jazz is like from a "performance" perspective... obviously a jazz isnt going to beat a wrx in a straight line war nor a lan-evo in a corner....

but is a 7 second 0-100KM with bolt-ons (high quality ones) possible?

in terms of cornering, with coilovers (eg: tein wagons), will it be comparable to a civic si (his current car)

[08ESE]

witout a turbo or integra type r transplant



forget it

[supatt]

7 sec should be quite possible. the stock is doing 9.6 sec =)
and there are bolt on turbo and supercharger kits available.so should be possible.=).

[dark138]

i dont consider a car with a diff engine the same car anymore.

e.g.
Jazz With a K20A just isn't a Jazz
A EG with a K20A isn't a EG, its a friggen monster

[muli]

even with taking out rear seats, spare tyres, doin a custom intake system , full exhaust including extractors, vafc2 i reckon you would be hard to get into the low 8sec 0-100km/h. not sure if there is cams or ecu available for jazz

[panda]

this a pretty redundant question

jazz is designed for economy

1.5 vtec version rated at 110bhp, 1.3? i would just forget it

you want 200+bhp? only choice is k20a swap or bolt on turbo, otherwise look for other car options :rolleyes:

[Tony]

a turbo'ed Jazz will run 8 seconds.. 7 seconds for a N/A Jazz is impossible, not with the stock L15A engine anyway.. 9 seconds is probably as far as it will get.

[**Ghost**]

thanks for teh replies ppl! : )

u see he is tossing up between an old teggy for 17,000 or a almost new VTiS jazz... everyone knows the old teggiesa would cane... but he doesnt want the problems associated with an old car

wot about handling? with coilovers and the appropriate swaybars/strubars/bushes/etc how does the jazz go in the handling department?

[Jus-10]

If you go and check out the Timeslips section and go to the very last position, you will see me there with a 16.6 1/4 mile and that was in full road trim (all seats, 16s, spare, etc) with just an exhaust, intake and V-AFC 2. You will also see that in the position above me is Wyn with his Civic Si which put out the same time.....so I guess that's a bit of a comparison for you there.

My car is putting out a bit more power now and with a bit of practice I would say a very high 15 is achievable....

There are no cams or anything available for the car, so most engine mods are limited to intake and exhaust, plus a bit of tuning with the V-AFC 2 or greddy e-Manage.

They aren't super quick, but they are a lot of fun to drive.

As far as handling goes, drop some decent coilovers in, slam it, and it is awesome! The stock suspension setup is nothing flash so it's hard to jusge the car if you take it for a test-drive, but I can guarantee that this car can handle!

It is also super practical, pretty much escapes attention from the cops and uses hardly any fuel.

It is a great car for what it is and with minimal mods it can be turned in to something pretty awesome for the money IMO....but then I'm a bit biased aren't I?!

[ahcash]

Can't really think of a sub $17K new car which can give you 7sec 0-100...
Anyone???

[panda]

sorry missed the question about handling

i list below all my recent cars past owned with the suspension used in ranked order in my opinion from best to worst

1. ek4- koni adjustable coilovers
2. eg6- front lowering springs
3. fit- tein adjustable coilovers
4. ek4- standard
5. dc2- standard

hands down the civic has best handling out of these honda cars, the eg more so than the ek if a good suspension setup

sure i havent slammed the fit yet but i doubt it would handle better than the other hondas listed

i have seen video of fit on track and once the driver cliped the kerb and momentarily lifted it up on the 2 side wheels :eek: 2 reason i think this happen because 1.lightweight 2.center of gravity high

without going into great detail you will know all great handling cars are low, toyota mrs, nsx, ferrari etc

park a fit next to these cars it will look like milk truck :D

also i think the eps is totally screwed and there is a discussion about this on another thread and i this is also important to consider for handling

despite these negative remarks i still :love: my fit but i fully realise the limitations of the car and dont expect it to be a f1 fighter jet :p

[Zimp13]

If you go and check out the Timeslips section and go to the very last position, you will see me there with a 16.6 1/4 mile and that was in full road trim (all seats, 16s, spare, etc) with just an exhaust, intake and V-AFC 2. You will also see that in the position above me is Wyn with his Civic Si which put out the same time.....so I guess that's a bit of a comparison for you there.

My car is putting out a bit more power now and with a bit of practice I would say a very high 15 is achievable....

There are no cams or anything available for the car, so most engine mods are limited to intake and exhaust, plus a bit of tuning with the V-AFC 2 or greddy e-Manage.

They aren't super quick, but they are a lot of fun to drive.

As far as handling goes, drop some decent coilovers in, slam it, and it is awesome! The stock suspension setup is nothing flash so it's hard to jusge the car if you take it for a test-drive, but I can guarantee that this car can handle!

It is also super practical, pretty much escapes attention from the cops and uses hardly any fuel.

It is a great car for what it is and with minimal mods it can be turned in to something pretty awesome for the money IMO....but then I'm a bit biased aren't I?!

yes i agree with u.... :thumbsup: ... not the biased part of cos... heheh

[Zimp13]

sorry missed the question about handling

i list below all my recent cars past owned with the suspension used in ranked order in my opinion from best to worst

1. ek4- koni adjustable coilovers
2. eg6- front lowering springs
3. fit- tein adjustable coilovers
4. ek4- standard
5. dc2- standard

hands down the civic has best handling out of these honda cars, the eg more so than the ek if a good suspension setup

sure i havent slammed the fit yet but i doubt it would handle better than the other hondas listed

i have seen video of fit on track and once the driver cliped the kerb and momentarily lifted it up on the 2 side wheels :eek: 2 reason i think this happen because 1.lightweight 2.center of gravity high

without going into great detail you will know all great handling cars are low, toyota mrs, nsx, ferrari etc

park a fit next to these cars it will look like milk truck :D

also i think the eps is totally screwed and there is a discussion about this on another thread and i this is also important to consider for handling

despite these negative remarks i still :love: my fit but i fully realise the limitations of the car and dont expect it to be a f1 fighter jet :p

i guess thats y spoon slammed its jazz that low to the ground....

[panda]

yes have to slam to compensate for the height of the car, jazz is high and skinny, civic is wide and low, civic the perfect handling beast :thumbsup:

[Jus-10]

Yeah the steering is definately the downer on the handling front....

[panda]

they could have maybe added a eps control like honda cf4 so can control hardnes and softnes of steering :rolleyes:

[ahcash]

Referring to the Temple of VTEC Asia, KN tested the Jazz and I quote :



It consistently did the 0-60mph run at a time of between 8.7 to 9.0 seconds for an average of just above 8.8 seconds !! This was really astonishing especially at the time I was doing the runs. By comparison, the 'reference' cars in the mid-sized and full-sized 'sports-sedan' segment, the Civic 2.0 i-VTEC and the local Accord 2.4 i-VTEC returned averaged times of 8.5 and 8.6 seconds respectively, not a lot faster than what the Jazz did !

Link : http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/JazzVtec/index.html

[**Ghost**]

hmmm thats a really interesting vehicle

on the topic of straight line speed for $17,000 bucks... u can get a pretty new s.14 for that money i think...but yeh he wants a honda and he reckons the jazz looks really good

so a jazz IS comparable to a civic VTI or civic Si?

[D16Y]

id definitely say so, plus its a much more practical car than the 3dr civic

[**Ghost**]

all very interseting...

so all u jazz drivers reckon the car will gain the status of the older SOHC VTEC civics one day to modifierS?

[petrovski]

**Ghost**all very interseting...

so all u jazz drivers reckon the car will gain the status of the older SOHC VTEC civics one day to modifierS?


Eventually . . .


On the handling side of things, I've never been in a civic with an aftermarket suspension setup so i can't compare it to that, however, from stock suspension to what i have now it is a MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT!!! :thumbsup: It handles as well as my dad's IS300 if not better in some circumstances but thats just my opinion . . . .

If he does get a jazz, definitely put the j's racing fender braces on the list as they massively reduce the understeer on the car!!

Pete :)

[Zimp13]

Eventually . . .


On the handling side of things, I've never been in a civic with an aftermarket suspension setup so i can't compare it to that, however, from stock suspension to what i have now it is a MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT!!! :thumbsup: It handles as well as my dad's IS300 if not better in some circumstances but thats just my opinion . . . .

If he does get a jazz, definitely put the j's racing fender braces on the list as they massively reduce the understeer on the car!!

Pete :)

fender braces?? which one is that? any pic?

[petrovski]

Sorry for temporary hijack :o
Jus-10 has the photos of them as we used his camera . . .

Pete :)

[panda]

fender braces?? which one is that? any pic?

i think he talking about canards :D

[ahcash]

fender braces?? which one is that? any pic?

Yeah .. I have the same question.. Any pix dudes??

[TypeG]

just search on web for pic
take of yr fender and mount it there

[Jus-10]

These are the fender braces (the blue thing).....

http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=518/1083Folder_014-med.jpg

[ahcash]

That is cool... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

So, like what Pete said.. by putting on this thingy will reduce understeer ??? Mind telling us where and how much? :thumbsup:

[Jus-10]

Yep, install these puppies and it will reduce understeer. Those that have tried them swear by them!

Not 100% sure on pricing but you can check out www.jsracing.co.jp for more pics and price in yen.

Or just contact one of the traders (JDM Yard or JapTuner). Pete got his from Japtuner...

[panda]

ah, you learn something new everyday :thumbsup:

[edw-R]

Great job~!!!

[Jus-10]

The car wasn't too hard to put apart actually...it's always a bit of a worry when pulling of big panels that you might not get it fitting right again, but seriously it takes no more than about 30-40 mins on each side if you have the tools and kinda know what you are doing.

[SiR CRX]

I think the Fit is a good choice for your mate but he should appreciate the car for what it is and he will be happy with it. It is NOT a performance car but it has the potential to be a very good performing small car. The Jazz got big wraps about having great handling and performance with great fuel economy when it was reviewed and I totally agree with this. It is probably quicker than anything in the same class and it has tons of potential to go faster and handle better. Probably the biggest rival is the Toyota Vitz RS (Echo Sportivo) which is also a 1.5L 4 cylinder and has numerous supercharger and turbo kits available as well as heaps of suspension upgrades. I personally think the Jazz is a much better car because the quality and looks of the Jazz destroy the Echo. The Toyota is kind of cheap looking and the interior is no exception. The only advantage is the cost, you can get an Echo Sportivo for about $12,000 now and the Jazz VTi/S will still cost you about $4000-$5000 more. So really what I am trying to say is that if your mate wants a good performing small car with good potential then a Jazz is perfect but if he wants something closer to an all out performance car then a Civic VTi-R or a DC2 Integra VTi-R would be a better choice.

[Zimp13]

These are the fender braces (the blue thing).....

http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=518/1083Folder_014-med.jpg

how does this thing work??? how come it can reduce understeer???

[Andys]

you can get an Echo Sportivo for about $12,000 now

Oh? For the 1.5L version? Surely you mean 1.3L version...

[JazzR]

Oh? For the 1.5L version? Surely you mean 1.3L version...

yea around that price you can pick one up! :D

[TypeG]

how does this thing work??? how come it can reduce understeer???

it works but expensive stuff

[spoon fit]

how much? pm me pls

[ahcash]

yeah .. how much.. pm me as well.. :thumbsup:

[TypeG]

well, better ask pete to tell u the price
i only know how much it will be for Type R

[Jus-10]

If you want a price, PM the traders please....

[Zimp13]

y cant ask Pete????

[spoon fit]

y cant ask Pete????


i think u need to listen to Moderator

[ahcash]

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[TypeG]

well, some ruleS apply here which we need to obey exclude mod tho

[wynode]

well, some ruleS apply here which we need to obey exclude mod tho
???

[spoon fit]

???

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22037&page=3&pp=12

[kuso]

from what i think... jazz will turn into the next civics...

although engine power may not be as good... engine power of current new civics aren't that any better anyway. of course the older hondas were better.

from memory, the new civics are sohc as well... unless you opt for like the expensive models - which i dont know if you can get here...


But that is one thing jazz don't have... variations in models... vti and vti-s is the same - except with kit, wheels and leather steering wheel. Quite a disappointment. maybe at least a small difference in engines?

But yea... I think it will turn out like the civics... just gotta give it time until ppl, and shops figure out ways to mod... eg... other than k20a swap... other swaps. There are turbos coming out... and im sure there was a supercharger somewhere...

[Zimp13]

i think u need to listen to Moderator

I am not asking U!!!!!!!!!

wats wrong with my question?????? wrong to know the reason?????

[Jus-10]

The reason I said to ask one of the traders, is because they can give you a correct price on the specific item you are after.

There are variations in exchange rates, etc which all affect the price you will ultimately pay.

I also know that Pete's fender braces came with a lot of other parts at once so the shipping will have cost him more....

All I'm saying is that of you want the true price of the item get it off a trader that's all....

[Zimp13]

ok thank u.... thought that it was against the rule to ask prices from other members... thats all...

[Jus-10]

nah man nothing like that...just want you guys to make sure you are getting the most correct and up to date pricing that's all....

[asiansquad]

this thread was getting so hostile
hahaha

[Zimp13]

nah not hostile man.... hehehe....

[TypeG]

so what is the conclusion on "Jazz as a Performance Vehicle? "

[panda]

negative, just drove my friend new 98 spec itr last night and the difference is so tremendous, even if the power is there for the fit/jazz i think the handling can never compare to the other hondas, but maybe with a lot of money and right parts and settings i could be proven wrong :rolleyes:

[kuso]

yea but u can't compare a dc2r VS fit

Firstly they are from different eras

Secondly dc2r already has a ton of performance mods done to it already ... it is TYPE R

Its like comparing a ford festiva with one of those Ford Super cars


I think jazz will eventually be over done... but engine power wise... its not really that good for performance... i think it is greatly limited. It will be a neat car though in its class. Its not bad for its own class... but you can't compare out of it.

I think there were some threads before...

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7024 (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7024)

[panda]

the original poster did ask for comparisions with other honda cars and ive just given my perspective with honda cars ive owned and driven in the past

no doubt the fit/jazz can be best in its class but if we are talking about general performance and handling there are better hondas out there

btw remember i own a fit too, im not being biased just realistic ;)

[Andys]

I think its difficult for a Jazz to achieve the performance of the Type R cars - they're pretty special cars, tuned by Honda for the track. If you know what you're doing and have the money to spend, I think you can lift the performance of the Jazz to those levels with modifications. I think a modified jazz can reach the speed of a stock DC2R at wakefield, but I haven't seen it done yet.

But I think the Jazz is competitive with other non-type-R stock cars. The lack of power doesn't seem a disadvantage, except under conditions like long uphills.

IMO The best thing about the jazz as a "performance vehicle" is how light it is and what a good base it is - its easy on fuel, easy on brakes and tyres. Could be a really good car for rally or enduro-type events. Spoon said it all when their modified Fit finished equal with a stock NSX.

Imagine having to refuel only half as much as your turbo/big engine competitors? Imagine having your brake power and tyre grip just as good at the end of the day as when you started? I reckon thats what the performance jazz is about.

- Andrew

[D16Y]

I think its difficult for a Jazz to achieve the performance of the Type R cars - they're pretty special cars, tuned by Honda for the track. If you know what you're doing and have the money to spend, I think you can lift the performance of the Jazz to those levels with modifications. I think a modified jazz can reach the speed of a stock DC2R at wakefield, but I haven't seen it done yet.

But I think the Jazz is competitive with other non-type-R stock cars. The lack of power doesn't seem a disadvantage, except under conditions like long uphills.

IMO The best thing about the jazz as a "performance vehicle" is how light it is and what a good base it is - its easy on fuel, easy on brakes and tyres. Could be a really good car for rally or enduro-type events. Spoon said it all when their modified Fit finished equal with a stock NSX.

Imagine having to refuel only half as much as your turbo/big engine competitors? Imagine having your brake power and tyre grip just as good at the end of the day as when you started? I reckon thats what the performance jazz is about.

- Andrew

i couldnt agree more :thumbsup:

[FB008]

I think its difficult for a Jazz to achieve the performance of the Type R cars - they're pretty special cars, tuned by Honda for the track. If you know what you're doing and have the money to spend, I think you can lift the performance of the Jazz to those levels with modifications. I think a modified jazz can reach the speed of a stock DC2R at wakefield, but I haven't seen it done yet.

But I think the Jazz is competitive with other non-type-R stock cars. The lack of power doesn't seem a disadvantage, except under conditions like long uphills.

IMO The best thing about the jazz as a "performance vehicle" is how light it is and what a good base it is - its easy on fuel, easy on brakes and tyres. Could be a really good car for rally or enduro-type events. Spoon said it all when their modified Fit finished equal with a stock NSX.

Imagine having to refuel only half as much as your turbo/big engine competitors? Imagine having your brake power and tyre grip just as good at the end of the day as when you started? I reckon thats what the performance jazz is about.

- Andrew

couldn't have said it better :thumbsup:

[kuso]

negative, just drove my friend new 98 spec itr last night and the difference is so tremendous, even if the power is there for the fit/jazz i think the handling can never compare to the other hondas, but maybe with a lot of money and right parts and settings i could be proven wrong :rolleyes:

I was referring to this...

[itzdoe]

search google guys: J's Racing Honda Fit. if u got the money, u can make it!. see, this thing is lapping tsukuba circuit in sub 1 minute bracket. almost faster than R32 GTR from hi-octane racing that run 1:06.

[M@lew]

Holy bump batman.

[040501912]

yay the dead resurrector hail itzdoe!

[UNLS1]

why is this thread still going???

its fail for so many reasons...

first reason.....its a JAZZ! lol

[fundies]

why is this thread still going???

its fail for so many reasons...

first reason.....its a JAZZ! lol


Ho hum. Boring reply.


Was the Datsun 1600 a fast car out of the box ?

[UNLS1]

Ho hum. Boring reply.


Was the Datsun 1600 a fast car out of the box ?

lololol @ comparing jazz to datsun 1600!


pls let me know when u see a jazz compete in a rally...

i can see that 'performance CVT' killing everything out there!

[kongfu]

lololol @ comparing jazz to datsun 1600!


pls let me know when u see a jazz compete in a rally...

i can see that 'performance CVT' killing everything out there!

Jazz is not designed for Rally mate, but you can see Jazz on track frequently in different countries.

A lot of CVT jazz in Asian countries like China, Malaysia, Singpore, Thailand are really stand out.

[FitRS]

Jazz is not designed for Rally mate, but you can see Jazz on track frequently in different countries.

A lot of CVT jazz in Asian countries like China, Malaysia, Singpore, Thailand are really stand out.

Why bother.. UNLS1 can't get over the marketing brief that Jazz's are for women let alone for the track where men like to legally drive their cars at fast speeds.

[kongfu]

Why bother.. UNLS1 can't get over the marketing brief that Jazz's are for women let alone for the track where men like to legally drive their cars at fast speeds.


:D well said

[M@lew]

lololol @ comparing jazz to datsun 1600!


pls let me know when u see a jazz compete in a rally...

i can see that 'performance CVT' killing everything out there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAg9oLoAJJY

[fundies]

lololol @ comparing jazz to datsun 1600!


pls let me know when u see a jazz compete in a rally...

i can see that 'performance CVT' killing everything out there!


You still haven't answered. Was the 1600 Datsun a fast car off the showroom floor ?

If you can't work out what to do with a lightweight, good handling car to make it into a performance car, you're a fool.

[SiR CRX]

If you have a look at the new GE it's really not that far off the mark. I mean check out the Swift Sport. It's marketed as a performance hatch and it's only putting out 4kw more than the 1.5L GE. In it's class I reckon the Jazz is a pretty good performer. It's really not fair comparing it to older cars that are in a different class. As far as performance goes, you can get better for the money but if you want a new car that can still perform well after some mods then a Jazz would be good imo. Not many better new cars in the same class as the Jazz.

[SiR CRX]

You still haven't answered. Was the 1600 Datsun a fast car off the showroom floor ?

If you can't work out what to do with a lightweight, good handling car to make it into a performance car, you're a fool.

http://www.turbophile.com/media/1968_1600_review/page_4.jpg

[040501912]

hey .. my previous car was jazz god damn that thing is like gokart ;) shame didnt took it out on the track :S but was built for it.. sobs

what ever the car is, if you wanted it can be anything !

[illuzi0nz]

i think this video would be suitable for this thread;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqhwP6L071U&NR=1
driven by dk himself

[spastic]

even in the spoon fit. they say 'its not a fast car, but its fun to drive'

i think that sums up the jazz.

[fundies]

http://www.turbophile.com/media/1968_1600_review/page_4.jpg



That Spec sheet says it all really:D

[itzdoe]

lololol @ comparing jazz to datsun 1600!


pls let me know when u see a jazz compete in a rally...

i can see that 'performance CVT' killing everything out there!

r u new in honda or something? apparently in UK, they use Jazz for Rally cars, and check out APRC (Asia Pacific Rally Championship). They also use Jazz for their Junior Class. tsk tsk. too bad mate, need to open ur eyes. And btw, do you know that Jazz has "manual" gearbox option?

[FitRS]

even in the spoon fit. they say 'its not a fast car, but its fun to drive'

i think that sums up the jazz.

Yep. Spot on the money.

You can take a factory standard Jazz VTi and it's still fun to drive, but it's no performance vehicle. It's not going to win any races or time trials, but there's a zip to it's acceleration and handling that make it an enjoyable ride.

Hell even the GLi is fun to drive.

[pyro trim tech]

i dont consider a car with a diff engine the same car anymore.

e.g.
Jazz With a K20A just isn't a Jazz
A EG with a K20A isn't a EG, its a friggen monster

lol, friggin monster, well said

[UNLS1]

r u new in honda or something? apparently in UK, they use Jazz for Rally cars, and check out APRC (Asia Pacific Rally Championship). They also use Jazz for their Junior Class. tsk tsk. too bad mate, need to open ur eyes. And btw, do you know that Jazz has "manual" gearbox option?

lol ive only been at honda for over 5 years....oh manual option??? wowzers i had no idea.

still jazz as performance car is fail, no matter what u say!

[WATAJK]

i dont consider a car with a diff engine the same car anymore.

e.g.
Jazz With a K20A just isn't a Jazz
A EG with a K20A isn't a EG, its a friggen monster

Very well put lol...
EG with a K20A is just scary lol

[Gnat]

Yeah, the Jazz isn't fast at all in a straight line, but its very chuckable. A lot more fun in the twisties that I first expected. On top of the stock Jazz, if you add a bit of stiffening on the rear (rear strut between the C pillars), it handles very nicely

[fundies]

My Jazz is as fast as my 2000 NB MX5 through the Royal National park ( Sydney ) twisties ( believe it or not ). A slightly choppy surface lets the Jazz keep up with the MX5 in terms grip/corner speed. The 7 speed CVT is also quick and fun to flick up and down, making the most of modest torque and power. Fun!!!!!!!!!