THE TRUTH ABOUT CIVIC EK EXHAUST PIPE (AKA B-PIPE) VS VISION B-Pipe. WITH PICS

[hondar]

Oke guys,

I thought it might good to post this up to clarify once and for all.

Especially those who will want to change into aftermarket exhaust system.

FACT 1
STOCK EXHAUST CIVIC EK PIPE (EITHER BE HATCH, SEDAN OR COUPE) ARE ALL SAME LENGTH

FACT 2
STOCK EXHAUST PIPE AKA B-PIPE, IS OF THE SAME LENGHT OF VISION B-PIPE.
This is good news for people as this means the pipe can be bolt-on right away without the need to use aftermarket car or modification.

FACT 3
DO U NEED TO CHANGE THE STOCK EXHAUST PIPE? YES IF YOU WANT BETTER PERFORMANCE. CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEVE, CHANGING THE MUFFLER ONLY WONT DO ANY GOOD.

WHY?
To save cost, your stock Honda exhaust is made with small-diameter crush-bent pipe. Crush bends are easy and inexpensive to make, which ideal for mass production. However crush bends can reduce the flow of a pipe by up to 50%.
Mandrel bending is done with a special machine that uses non-crushable insert, called a mandrel that goes into a pipe while bending to prevent it from becoming crushed. The bend is smooth, which helps with exhaust flow.
Build as a one piece pipe to gain maximise exhaust flow.


I HAVE TAKEN A SAMPLE USING VISION B-PIPE (WHICH HAPPEN TO BE THE SAME AS SPOON B-PIPE SINCE VISION MAKE FOR SPOON) IN THIS CASE TO ILLUSTRATE A POINT. I AM SURE THERE ARE OTHER GOOD COMPANY AS WELL.

VISION B-PIPE IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF MANDREL BENT PIPE THAT IS FAIRLY INEXPENSIVE TO OWN. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY IT GIVE YOU THE LIBERTY TO FIT IT WITH ANY OTHER MUFFLER BRAND OF YOUR CHOICE.

I HOPE THIS CLEAR UP THE ISSUE ONCE AND FOR ALL.

PLEASE POST IT A STICKY IF IT IS HELPFUL :D

AXLE-BACK END, CONNECTING TO THE MUFFLER
http://www.imgmag.org/images/hondar/ozhonda/bpipe1.JPG


CATALYTIC END
http://www.imgmag.org/images/hondar/ozhonda/bpipe2.JPG

[og5950]

this is true! i bought one off him and it fits, i'll post some pics up shortly and my personal opinion!

[civtir]

"WHY?
To save cost, your stock Honda exhaust is made with small-diameter crush-bent pipe. Crush bends are easy and inexpensive to make, which ideal for mass production. However crush bends can reduce the flow of a pipe by up to 50%.
Mandrel bending is done with a special machine that uses non-crushable insert, called a mandrel that goes into a pipe while bending to prevent it from becoming crushed. The bend is smooth, which helps with exhaust flow.
Build as a one piece pipe to gain maximise exhaust flow"

Hey, I'm considerin this pipe as well...but just wanna know, in relation to what was said above.....are you talking about all stock EK exhausts? including EK4 & EK9 about it being crush-bent?

Thanks

[Perry]

that means i can use the stock cat aswell?

[og5950]

u can use the stock cat : )

[hondar]

"WHY?
To save cost, your stock Honda exhaust is made with small-diameter crush-bent pipe. Crush bends are easy and inexpensive to make, which ideal for mass production. However crush bends can reduce the flow of a pipe by up to 50%.
Mandrel bending is done with a special machine that uses non-crushable insert, called a mandrel that goes into a pipe while bending to prevent it from becoming crushed. The bend is smooth, which helps with exhaust flow.
Build as a one piece pipe to gain maximise exhaust flow"

Hey, I'm considerin this pipe as well...but just wanna know, in relation to what was said above.....are you talking about all stock EK exhausts? including EK4 & EK9 about it being crush-bent?

Thanks

I have not seen EK9 Type R pipe, but as far as i know all stock pipe is crush bent... doesnt matter which EK.

[hondar]

that means i can use the stock cat aswell?

if you are putting on JDM header which has 2.5inch collector (standard header collector is 2 inch i think), you cant fit it. It will cause a "bottleneck" anyway if you use stock cat on your exhaust system whould you have a header with 2.5inch collector and a 2 inch cat-converter.

[civicboy]

so jdm headers wont fit aus spec cat con.....exhaust shops should b able to provide a 2.25 cat? or custom made one?

[hondar]

so jdm headers wont fit aus spec cat con.....exhaust shops should b able to provide a 2.25 cat? or custom made one?

With JDM DC2R 98 SPEC 4-1 Header, you need a 2.5inch cat since the collector is 2.5 inch. :D

[ian]

the VISION centre pipe does NOT fit on my stock 2000 civic vtir coupe, i just tried to get it fitted today (21/09/05), it sits about 10cm longer towards the back when the VISION centre pipe is lined up to the stock cat.........but the VISION muffler fits fine on the stock centre pipe.

[Paul1985]

im planning on getting a set of headers which are not the 60mm (2.36?inch) they will be 2.5.. i plan on using a cat (will need to get a 2.5inch cat) and need a 2.5inch b-pipe also. (dont want to spend a heap of money on a bottleneck!)

Are there any JDM companies who make 2.5 inch b-pipes for an EG with cat? or would i need a custom b-pipe and cat.. if so, can local exhaust shops do a good job with it?

[VT3C]

yeah also for example, the vision/spoon 4>2 header is designed to bolt to the OEM 2>1 piece before the stock cat.. stock cat retained, the B-pipe will fit up perfectly and SHOULD bolt to your OEM axle-back..

one thing though, when I fitted a mandrel-bent axle-back COWLEY muffler (straight-thru) on my EG5 - I DID get a small but noticeable gain or at least it allowed the motor to rev more freely.. this is mainly due to the flow characteristic of the OEM muffler design.. but sorry back on topic..

[chinkdood]

hondar. one question is..
if i changed to vision bpipe. but still use sotck mufller.
id get the same performance as if i did go with vision b pipee + muffler???
coz ppl say mufffler only make noise?
is this correcT?

[ian]

STOCK 2000 CIVIC VTIR COUPE (EM1) - REAR

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1282

LEO, I HOPE I CAN GET THIS ALL RECTIFIED BY DOING WHAT YOU HAVE SUGGESTED TO ME OVER THE PHONE. -IAN

[hondar]

MY CAT ON CIVIC COUPE - WITH 6 FIN
http://www.imgmag.org/images/hondar/ozhonda/bpipe2.JPG


AND IAN'S NOTICEBALY LONGER - WITH 12 FIN
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1283

IM NOT SURE WHY IT DOESNT FIT...


this is true! i bought one off him and it fits, i'll post some pics up shortly and my personal opinion!

og5950 has a catback for his sedan (which is same length as coupe), he did not change his catalytic convertor. still investigating... :D

[JEZ83L]

I have one question... Is press bent the same as the crush bent you mentioned?

I am going to get a new system soon and spoke to an exhaust guy who told me it makes little difference on smaller NA motors when refering to press bent over mandrel bent.

[ian]

MY CAT ON CIVIC COUPE - WITH 6 FIN
http://www.imgmag.org/images/hondar/ozhonda/bpipe2.JPG


AND IAN'S NOTICEBALY LONGER - WITH 12 FIN
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1283



Hondar = VTi civic coupe EJ
Ian = VTiR civic coupe EM

we have different stock cat lengths? why is this so? can anyone shed some light on this dilemma?

[hondar]

STOCK 2000 CIVIC VTIR COUPE (EM1) - REAR

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1282

LEO, I HOPE I CAN GET THIS ALL RECTIFIED BY DOING WHAT YOU HAVE SUGGESTED TO ME OVER THE PHONE. -IAN

MINE IS ALIGNED, JAYSON WHO HAS EM1 WHO BOUGHT THE MUFFLER OFF ME IS ALIGNED WITH MUFFLER SLIGHTLY TIP TO THE RIGHT BUT WITHIN REASONABLE DEGREE. HE HAS A VTIR COUPE AS WELL.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hondar/vision21.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hondar/vision23.jpg

[LAGOOT]

i've got a VISION exhaust on my DC2R but i've gone with an aftermarket catalytic converter (CATCO) and ian you've seen my exhaust in person.
i dont know why your muffler is not aligned.. :confused:

also where did you get your exhaust fitted?

[ian]

yes, i've seen your exhaust LAGOOT - i like it very much, which gave me confidence in my new exhaust. i really don't know why it is not aligned. I'm gonna check/replace my rubber mounts (maybe sagging).
my exhaust was fitted by a local reputable mechanic who is also a mate (i was under the car during the installation). i hope to get this all sorted soon though.........

[egSi]

that sucks ian, hope u get it sorted man

[bennjamin]

it seems some traders have had trouble recently with semi-false advertising...

I strongly reccommend on both behalfs, to research the item you are buying/selling to avoid any hassles !

[BlitZ]

Which axel back does the coupe get? the same one from the sedan ek?

[ian]

the coupe and sedan apparently share the same axle back (check with hondar). my axle back fits fine on my stock b-pipe although slightly off centre as shown above.

[tRipitaka]

Hondar = VTi civic coupe EJ
Ian = VTiR civic coupe EM

we have different stock cat lengths? why is this so? can anyone shed some light on this dilemma?

SOHC vs DOHC

[VTi-R Civic]

it seems some traders have had trouble recently with semi-false advertising...

I strongly reccommend on both behalfs, to research the item you are buying/selling to avoid any hassles !

Point taken, but with so many international variants of Civic models I know it is hard to have the right answer 100% of the time (even if you try do your research). Any of the vendors who I have spoken to about parts are as upfront as possible. I have spoken to Leo about parts over the phone and if he is unsure about something - he will tell you as such. :thumbsup:

In my opinion Leo is as helpful and upfront as possible. Keep up the good work mate. :thumbsup:

[VTi-R Civic]

I'm interested to see how you go Ian as I am also considering a vision b-pipe and am curious whether it will bolt onto the back of my stock cat.

Good luck with it. :thumbsup:

[hondar]

it seems some traders have had trouble recently with semi-false advertising...

I strongly reccommend on both behalfs, to research the item you are buying/selling to avoid any hassles !

bennjamin,

i did not semi-false advertising. in fact i have based it on my own experience which is of greater value than what you heard over the net. this is my real life experiences

my experience were concluded on these 3 experience
- i have a coupe myself 96-98, i have measured the lenght of my stock bpipe with the vision one and is of the same length. i have installed it on my car with hanny's and it fitted nicely. i did not change my stock cat at all

- the vision axleback (muffler) i have sold so many of them to ozhonda members and none come back to me complaining it does not aligned.
i have installed the coupe muffler and my car and it is aligned. i have even sold to someone by the name of jayson (i have the contact no if you want to verify the story) who has em1 coupe similar to ian who also has no problem with alignment. (although he say it is a slighlty bit to the right side but no big deal really otherwise he would rang me up as well)

- i have og5950 who has an ek sedan which share the same axleback as the coupe who has comfirmed that it fits without the need to change them.

this is true! i bought one off him and it fits, i'll post some pics up shortly and my personal opinion!

i have based my conclusion on my own real-life experience and try to be honest as possible.

it doesnt benefit me if i try to mislead customer as it will come back to my face. with internet this day, we cant run away can we?

my ozhonda feedback rating is good 102 so far with 100% positive feedback.
i sell on ebay as well.. and i have 832 positive feedback with 100% records.
anyone who go to ebay, knows how hard to maintain 100% records.
my ebay feedback (http://feedback.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=gunners_76&ssPageName=STRK:ME:UFS)

actually the whole saga cause more headache for me and if anyone would know, i will try to run an extra mile for all my customers. :D

this is really an unfortunate experience as this has caught me off-guard.

i just check panho vtir coupe, which has a similar lenght of of catalytic converter with ian's vtir.

it seems that 96-98 model and 99-00 model is different. i wonder now if the civic coupe 99-00 GLi model, which cat-converter they used?

yes i make wrong assumption which im happy to admit, but i think if you were in my own situation, you would safely assume the same thing.

like i say, if i had known this, i would have advised him about it as any misleading will just come back to me.

[bennjamin]

Ofcourse nothing personal Leo :)
But its a a vauge statement that applies to many here ( not naming names at all !)

My only point is , since a mistake was made , issues are learnt - BUT what is going to be done to rectify this problem ?

[hondar]

Ofcourse nothing personal Leo :)
But its a a vauge statement that applies to many here ( not naming names at all !)

My only point is , since a mistake was made , issues are learnt - BUT what is going to be done to rectify this problem ?

im doing something abt it. im sure ian can see how eager iam to fix this.

[luzinit]

thumbs up for leo :thumbsup: . u are too vague ben, being vague is exactly what leads to misinterpretion and false assumptions, in this case, people browsing this site may think hondar is dodgy based on ur vague and impersonal statement. (that is how i wouldve interpreted anyways), shudve just stated ur point straight up brother.

[Perry]

Leo is a 100% excellent trader:thumbsup:

[ian]

Ben,

Leo is on the case and we'll have this little dilemma sorted as soon as possible i hope.

(Leo, i just want to make sure the cat i will use will bolt directly on to my stock header)

Thanks Leo and thanks for your concern Ben........all good guys, hope to be resolved soon and will keep youse all up to date.

[bennjamin]

thumbs up for leo :thumbsup: . u are too vague ben, being vague is exactly what leads to misinterpretion and false assumptions, in this case, people browsing this site may think hondar is dodgy based on ur vague and impersonal statement. (that is how i wouldve interpreted anyways), shudve just stated ur point straight up brother.


Point already there , which takes little effort and research to understand ;)
I know Leo isnt dodgy - its up to the "trader ratings" system and a buyers judgement to make that assumption.

What I ask for - is a answer to how this issue will be solved ? Im sure Leo and Ian will work something out in their private conversations :thumbsup:

[babyboy]

goodluck ian in sorting this issue out. I know that Honda R (Leo) wont rip you off with it cause i bought many products off him and if ive got any issues with the products he helped me as much as he possibly could :thumbsup: Also with your muffler not align, i know someone that has an em1 that has just put the vision muffler on and it fitted fine. I can't see why yours doesn't fit??

[ian]

Ok fellas all good and sorted. Leo's taken that extra effort to fix the problem asap (today).

Problem: my stock cat was too long - reason for the VISION b-pipe not fitting correctly. We both had not anticipated this issue. He has now supplied me with a used jdm stock cat (free of charge) which is about 10cm shorter than my stock cat. We had it all fitted by my mechanic this afternoon whilst both Leo and my supervision under the car. My muffler tip is also now much more aligned that it was previously due to a loose rubber mount.

Thank you very much Leo for your personal service. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The car goes extremely well........a lot louder than before obviously and the exhaust tone is solid, crisp and deep (not tinny or rattly).

[VTi-R Civic]

:thumbsup: :cool:

[hondar]

Ok fellas all good and sorted. Leo's taken that extra effort to fix the problem asap (today).

Problem: my stock cat was too long - reason for the VISION b-pipe not fitting correctly. We both had not anticipated this issue. He has now supplied me with a used jdm stock cat (free of charge) which is about 10cm shorter than my stock cat. We had it all fitted by my mechanic this afternoon whilst both Leo and my supervision under the car. My muffler tip is also now much more aligned that it was previously due to a loose rubber mount.

Thank you very much Leo for your personal service. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The car goes extremely well........a lot louder than before obviously and the exhaust tone is solid, crisp and deep (not tinny or rattly).


just a quick correction... it is not a jdm cat... it is just a normal cat found on a vti i think.

from now it is called the "6 fin cat" becos it has 6 fin on it. lol

they are of the exact same height as the jdm cat from dc2r. the only different is the flange becos the jdm cat is mean for header with 2.5 inch collector.

if you are changing to:
1) jap cat back and using a standard header (non jdm) you need to use the catalytic convertor on your right side of the pics.

2) jap cat back and using jdm header, you need to use the cat on the left.

note: jdm cat will not work if you have standard header as the they are too big on the flange where you connect the header collector and the catalytic convertor

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hondar/catalyticconveter/JDMCATVSNORMALCAT.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hondar/catalyticconveter/JDMCATVSNORMALCAT2.jpg

apparently some car is equipped with standard shorter car (6 fins cat) like on the right side just like in mycar. ian's does not. thats why is the problem.

i make a mistake to assume that all civic use the cat like mine since i have one more person who has a vti sedan and fit nicely as well. but it turns out to be a mistake. my bad. anyhow, this experience is good for me as well and for everyone as we learnt more abt the car we love most! the HONDAS!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hondar/catalyticconveter/JDMCATVSNORMALCAT3.jpg


btw ian's muffler looks all good now :thumbsup:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/hondar/catalyticconveter/ALLGOODNOW.jpg

[Paul1985]

great work guys :thumbsup:
so now ian has headers (2.5inch) going into a 2.5inch cat to a 2.5inch b-pipe and onto his muffler?... the car would be running great with that.

[hondar]

great work guys :thumbsup:
so now ian has headers (2.5inch) going into a 2.5inch cat to a 2.5inch b-pipe and onto his muffler?... the car would be running great with that.

no ian, has standard header, hence he use the stock cat from vti, the 6fins cat as i called them :D

[00' coupe]

thats good work guys... Leo made an honest mistake(that anyone would of made) but he certainly went the extra yards to rectify it... and we all definitely learnt something about our cars. Leo even checked my em1 cat last night to see if was the same as ians.(it was the same)

hey ian when you get back you have to take me for a ride...

[ian]

yes guys all good now........i went for a little happy cruise last night to test out my new cat back exhaust (with stock header and replacement cat).....hehehe........it's loud during hard acceleration. I'm just happy that it all fits and bolts on fine. Thanks again to Leo.

for sure Pancho!

[LAGOOT]

nice to see everythings been sorted :thumbsup: :)
told you you'd like it ian ;) hehehe

[ian]

great work guys :thumbsup:
so now ian has headers (2.5inch) going into a 2.5inch cat to a 2.5inch b-pipe and onto his muffler?... the car would be running great with that.

that is my next step dude - header + hi-flow cat. :thumbsup:

i only have the VISION cat-back exhaust fitted. :)