Euro Vs Sportivo

[10VDR]

hey i was just wondering if anyone knows what quicker out of the euro or sportivo corolla.... and if anyone has run their euro down the 1/4 just some times would be appreciated. im just comparing my mates sportivo he ran a 15.7 with just a muffler. thanks :thumbsup:

[albii]

hey i was just wondering if anyone knows what quicker out of the euro or sportivo corolla.... and if anyone has run their euro down the 1/4 just some times would be appreciated. im just comparing my mates sportivo he ran a 15.7 with just a muffler. thanks :thumbsup:
mattel here on this forum ran his euro stock and got a 15.5......i have also seen a test where a stock euro has done a 15.23

[albii]

sportivos rev hard but dont have the top end like the euro does.

[kingboost]

sportivos rev hard but dont have the top end like the euro does.
yeah felt that today they really haul ass :thumbsup:

[jamchen]

i think euro will be quicker... however by not much...
I-vtec VS VVT-I... that would be one of a nice race :thumbsup:


um.. dunno what number will be my MDX running :rolleyes:
maybe i just need to get it done once but hopefully no honda technicians will see me running so i can still maintain my warrenty for my thrid yr :D
wheels claims 16.3 1/4 miles but i think i can do better than that!

[albii]

i think euro will be quicker... however by not much...
I-vtec VS VVT-I... that would be one of a nice race :thumbsup:


um.. dunno what number will be my MDX running :rolleyes:
maybe i just need to get it done once but hopefully no honda technicians will see me running so i can still maintain my warrenty for my thrid yr :D
wheels claims 16.3 1/4 miles but i think i can do better than that!
190kw there..should be quite nippy for a large suv.

[albii]

i think euro will be quicker... however by not much...
I-vtec VS VVT-I... that would be one of a nice race :thumbsup:




they are both rev whores.(mate of mine had a zr celica with the same engine) but where as the 2.4 ivtec still has room for more the 1.8 vvti is pulling as much power as it possibly can..its working harder. the euro can rely on its torque.

[Chris_F]

heaps of people i know under-estimate the euro so badly.

From the tests the sportivo and euro will be close but the euro will be the clear winner at the end of the day.

Its frustrating arguing with people about it...

"the sportivo has the same KW's and its lighter that = win" - get that so much

look at the power curves, torque spread, and gear ratios of the two cars and its a different story :o

i guess the lack of "sport" in the euro name and its somewhat understated styling means its slow? (:cool: we all know the truth)

[coladuna]

hey i was just wondering if anyone knows what quicker out of the euro or sportivo corolla.... and if anyone has run their euro down the 1/4 just some times would be appreciated. im just comparing my mates sportivo he ran a 15.7 with just a muffler. thanks :thumbsup:

Just wait a week or two and I'll be more than qualified to answer your question although I won't be able to quote exact times.
Hopefully, my brother's Sportivo will be delivered this week.
A slight problem because the one they located has been damaged in transit or something.

I don't know if anyone has driven the 05 model, but I have driven one only last week. First impression was that it felt faster than my Euro, but I'll need more time behind the wheel to confirm it.

Anyway, they are great value for money.

[albii]

you tell em chris...

[albii]

maybe it feels faster because the refinement levels are no match for the hondas.

[jamchen]

can't agree anymore than that lol
maybe honda can try to put a euro type s or even just put euro R badge on it... haha
or, rename it to TSX :D

[coladuna]

sportivos rev hard but dont have the top end like the euro does.

what do you mean they don't have the top end like the Euro does?
They are very strong at the top end.
maximum power of 141kW@6800rpm or something and redlines at 8500rpm or so.
A little difficult to judge on paper because it's a different story at low revs, and there's also the 200kg weight advantage.
As far as I know, the gearing in the Sportivo is closer than the Euro as well.
will definitely have a few runs against my brother when the engine is run in.

[albii]

top end as in mid to top power delivery km/h 120kmh to 230 kmh

[coladuna]

maybe it feels faster because the refinement levels are no match for the hondas.

Don't be like a typical Honda fanboy and assume it's faster than anything out there. Have you driven the 05 model? Supposedly, there are number of changes to the 05 model and it's a huge improvement over the 03 model. I haven't driven the 03 model though. Had 3 passengers in the car when test driving and it felt less weighed down than my Euro when I have that many passengers.

[albii]

my mates zr celica was great 0-120 then it died..the euro keeps going...and since you are pulling around 145kmh when you are doing a mid 15 thats where its happening.

[albii]

and i'm not a honda fan boy..i would much prefer my mates bmw 320i to my euro anyday

[10VDR]

yeah ill have to give my mate a run once i pick my euro up, will be a good race though

[coladuna]

my mates zr celica was great 0-120 then it died..the euro keeps going...and since you are pulling around 145kmh when you are doing a mid 15 thats where its happening.

Obviously, I haven't had the chance to speed up to 120km+ when test driving. That would freak out the salesman. I only gave it a squit or two because the salesman looked too conservative to tolerate too much full-on acceleration.

[albii]

yeah ill have to give my mate a run once i pick my euro up, will be a good race though
yeah why not.......wait till its run in though...mine goes harder now i have 12000km on the clock and its getting better.

[albii]

Obviously, I haven't had the chance to speed up to 120km+ when test driving. That would freak out the salesman. I only gave it a squit or two because the salesman looked too conservative to tolerate too much full-on acceleration.
yeah well i'm just telling you that out on the open highway the vvti wont match the euros ivtec....been there done that...

[albii]

did rev hard though ....heaps harder than the euro..

[Chris_F]

coladuna- show your brother what the euro can do when you get a chance (and yourself while your at it).

euro's are decievingly quick - they don't have a distinct vtec "kick" or torquey push to them because the power flows (very refined like albii said - who i might add, is not a honda 'fan boy' by any means).

don't underrate the euro vs. the sportivo man your in with more of a chance than you think ;).

80-120 the euro is nearly as quick as a liberty GT aswel taking about 5 seconds which i thought was pretty cool

[Suntzu]

Yeah, im amazed by that 80-120 figure. Is it really that quick in normal driving? What gear would you be in to do that? i love a car that has that overtaking punch! :)

[albii]

yes no honda fan boy here considering i come from owning turbo awd cars..should make me quite qualified in answering performance related questions..

[coladuna]

coladuna- show your brother what the euro can do when you get a chance (and yourself while your at it).

euro's are decievingly quick - they don't have a distinct vtec "kick" or torquey push to them because the power flows (very refined like albii said - who i might add, is not a honda 'fan boy' by any means).

don't underrate the euro vs. the sportivo man your in with more of a chance than you think ;).

80-120 the euro is nearly as quick as a liberty GT aswel taking about 5 seconds which i thought was pretty cool

hey, i'm more than aware of what the euro can do. On that point, I really need to slow down and stop redlining the bloody car. lol

Believe me, I would've been sceptical if I didn't take a test drive. I always thought the Sportivo was only good on paper and not very fast in real life.
However, I do know that Euro has a very good in-gear acceleration, which I cannot compare with the Sportivo because I haven't had the chance to drive it that much.

Anyway, we will probably be swapping the car once or twice a week so I think I'll get plenty of chances to compare the two soon.

[Chris_F]

awesome - you'll have to let everyone know how they compare

was just making sure you weren't underrating yourself there :p

Whatever the final verdict - goes to show how versatile a car the euro is.

Euro vs 4cyl A4 - euro came out on top
Euro vs Sportivo - euro came out on top (haha just fkn with ya)
Euro vs Mazda 6 - euro comes out on top

and the list goes on...
honda's gone all out with this one

[Pum[Z]]

and i'm not a honda fan boy..i would much prefer my mates bmw 320i to my euro anyday

My gf drives one.. and i must say Bmer 320i first gear is damn torquey (Its the inline 6), and is smooth and comfortable to drive...

But to drag or give a bit of stick.. The euro is way better.... Thats why we use my car more often then her car...

[VirIIx]

and i'm not a honda fan boy..i would much prefer my mates bmw 320i to my euro anyday

I'd prefer a 325i with everything on it. But for half the price, the Euro has it all :)

a 320 doesn't cut it for me - i won't get into details :p

and to boot, 330 is the only 3 series where u can option to hav a 6spd manual - what crap

[Tobster]

My sentiments exactly.

And that's only on the 330ci coupe. 330 sedan no manual option.

[VirIIx]

I didn't know that. But when you look into more detail, for the price you pay for a 330ci, and with that sort of money already being flung around - you may as well go for gold and get an M3.

Otherwise you'd just look like a wanker who had enough money but didn't go the full way. That's what I always think when i see someone with a 330ci. You could've spent that little bit more.... but you didn't!

[keep in mind that's a purely bias comment, that if you had that much money to throw around, how could you skimp, may as well keep the change and get a 325 :) ]

[aaronng]

I sat in the 325ci that my friend was thinking of buying... My hair touches the roof. It's cramped...

[yfin]

Yeah, im amazed by that 80-120 figure. Is it really that quick in normal driving? What gear would you be in to do that? i love a car that has that overtaking punch! :)

That is 3rd gear - I am in far north WA at the moment on holiday. Lots of road trains and old people in caravans to pass in the outback :D

Stretching out 3rd to redline is great - has anyone noticed however how the hi-cam VTEC 6000-7000 moves much slower in 3rd gear? Almost like slow motion?

Anyway - not sure we are comparing the Euro to the Sportivo - do people who buy the Euro even consider the Sportivo?

[Nickt]

I test drove a 325ci and a 325i before deciding on the Euro. Was originally gonna spend more on a car until I drove the Euro (and decided to keep the change and spend it elsewhere!)

The 325ci is a nice car...but for around $75K I just could not justify it...I'd rather fork out another $15K when I can afford it and buy a 3.0d X5...then you will see torque! For $90K you can even get a second hand V8 X5 with low kms...why go and spend $75K on a three series that will be worth $30K in about 2 years (at which point my Euro will also probably be $30K!!!).

The three series is a good car, but it just seems to have adopted that try hard image...unless you go for the 330 and then the argument is why not just get the M3...

BMW has to really reconsider their pricing/specs if they want to stay up there...Mercedes blew them away with the C-Class.

For mine, the Euro is a wise choice...the 3-series (as a new car option) is an egotistical choice.

[aaronng]

That is 3rd gear - I am in far north WA at the moment on holiday. Lots of road trains and old people in caravans to pass in the outback :D

Stretching out 3rd to redline is great - has anyone noticed however how the hi-cam VTEC 6000-7000 moves much slower in 3rd gear? Almost like slow motion?

Anyway - not sure we are comparing the Euro to the Sportivo - do people who buy the Euro even consider the Sportivo?
Maybe it's because of the Euro's 6 speed close ratio box. Our 3rd and 4th gears are shorter than other cars, especially compared to the Liberty GT (1.354:1 and 1.027:1 compared to 1.296:1 and 0.972:1). Also, I find that Honda engines tend to spin easily to redline, even for the old F22b that was SOHC non-vtec. So if your gear puts you in the upper half of the rev range, then you'll be heaps faster than usual.

Maybe the reason you see 3rd gear vtec is slower is because you haven't seen 4th gear vtec? :D

Edit: Another reason why I don't think the 325ci is a good buy is because a 2001 model with 119,000km on the clock was selling for AU$39,990!!! WTF?! We can buy a new Euro with that price!

[Tobster]

BMW 3 series hold their value better than just about any other sedan. They are the benchmark for way a sedan should handle (according to the experts).

The fact that you pay very much for the badge (not to mention the options -- over $2000 just for metallic paint!) is what puts me off.

The Euro is still top of my shopping list. I considered BMW 3 series, Alfa 156, Saab 9-3, Mazda6, Subaru Liberty... and for what I like, I don't think I can beat the Accord Euro for the combination of features, build quality, reliability, power, economy, handling -- for the money.

Roll on end of the year when I can go shopping...

[bigteethygrin]

shouldnt the euro be compared against the camry sportivo and not the corrolla sportivo?? the corrolla seems so different as a car is all

[Tobster]

Camry Sportivo is a whole different beast as well -- it's bigger and heavier than the Euro. The 2.4 4 cylinder version is only good for about 115 kW and the 3 litre 6 is 145 kW but makes a lot more torque. (Interesting that again Australia gets the crap engine -- I think the US has a VVT 6 cylinder which makes a lot more power, as a 3 litre six should these days)

Comparing the Corolla and the Euro, you're talking more about the engines, with both high revving 4 cylinder good for 141 and 140 kW respectively.

[Tobster]

Maybe it's because of the Euro's 6 speed close ratio box. Our 3rd and 4th gears are shorter than other cars, especially compared to the Liberty GT (1.354:1 and 1.027:1 compared to 1.296:1 and 0.972:1).

Gear ratios (from comparion at carpoint.com.au) are

HONDA ACCORD EURO TOYOTA COROLLA
Ratio 1 3.533:1 3.166:1
Ratio 2 1.880:1 2.050:1
Ratio 3 1.354:1 1.481:1
Ratio 4 1.027:1 1.166:1
Ratio 5 0.825:1 0.916:1
Ratio 6 0.659:1 0.815:1
Reverse 3.583:1 3.250:1
Final drive ratio 4.388:1 4.529:1

[aaronng]

Gear ratios (from comparion at carpoint.com.au) are

HONDA ACCORD EURO TOYOTA COROLLA
Ratio 1 3.533:1 3.166:1
Ratio 2 1.880:1 2.050:1
Ratio 3 1.354:1 1.481:1
Ratio 4 1.027:1 1.166:1
Ratio 5 0.825:1 0.916:1
Ratio 6 0.659:1 0.815:1
Reverse 3.583:1 3.250:1
Final drive ratio 4.388:1 4.529:1
Oops, I was commenting on Chris_F's comment that the 80-120 was quicker in the Euro than the Liberty GT.

Anyone have 80-120 figures for the Sportivo on hand now?? I can check my old Wheels magazine review once I get home.

[aaronng]

Camry Sportivo is a whole different beast as well -- it's bigger and heavier than the Euro. The 2.4 4 cylinder version is only good for about 115 kW and the 3 litre 6 is 145 kW but makes a lot more torque. (Interesting that again Australia gets the crap engine -- I think the US has a VVT 6 cylinder which makes a lot more power, as a 3 litre six should these days)

Comparing the Corolla and the Euro, you're talking more about the engines, with both high revving 4 cylinder good for 141 and 140 kW respectively.
Yeah, the Camry is more in the size class of the Honda Accord, with its own 117kW 2.4L and 177kW 3L V6.
The only car which is a similar size to the Euro is the Altezza (although is smaller), but that is FR and $$$ more because of branding.

I was about to buy the Sportivo, and then the Euro came out for sale in Aus. So I waited a bit and here I am now fully satisfied with my Euro. But I think the Sportivo should go a bit harder. Probably a driver's race.

[VirIIx]

Im not a fan for Camry's or Corolla's despite what people say.

Bringin the celica into this quickly, i found it cramped, hard to move in and out of and I would've purchased my DC5R (Integra Type R 2004) ANYDAY over the celica if it wasn't for that stupid sales person who made a few comments to my mother who was like NO NO INTEGRA FOR YOU! So.. the Euro won :)

I do admit that the new sportivo corollas are mighty impressive, very roomy and comfortable inside, well placed instruments for dash - and from memory the manual layout was on the dash similar to the rally setups - not very fond of that.

Like all light cars they dart around pretty fast, i've had a go in an older Mazda 323 SP20 - it was automatic 3 gears (shows it's age) and man i reckon i would've flung myself off the road when going around a corner - i like my cars to have a bit of weight thanks :) and the ability to drive along happily if say the car was loaded with cargo/passengers - i doubt a small sportivo could handle that - most hatches i see struggle going up hill unless they have a bit of speed :p

As for the camry sportivo.. a bit glorified for what it is in my opinion - it's a camry.. and ur a camry driver.. and you thought volvo drivers are worse (at least they're not on the road everyday and everywhere :p)

I've driven a few camry's and each one i've driven (haven't tried the latest model) i've been dissapointed. Very akward blind spots in the mirrors, poor interior, poor handling too. Not a car i'd recommend to anyone personally. For the price, i'd buy a Holden anyday over a Toyota Camry - and that's not bagging out holden either. The commodores for what they are are built quite well. I was considering a Commodore S or even an SV8 while looking around - but settled for the Honda Euro.

If anything the Euro has a lot of potential, like all things Honda - they have extra hidden potential :)

[VirIIx]

That is 3rd gear - I am in far north WA at the moment on holiday. Lots of road trains and old people in caravans to pass in the outback :D

Stretching out 3rd to redline is great - has anyone noticed however how the hi-cam VTEC 6000-7000 moves much slower in 3rd gear? Almost like slow motion?

Anyway - not sure we are comparing the Euro to the Sportivo - do people who buy the Euro even consider the Sportivo?

I like 2nd gear in the euro.. i don't ever get to stretch to 3rd gear to redline.. because by the time i get 2nd to red and shift into 3rd.. and look at the speed i'm already hitting 100km+

But 3rd does feel steady and powerful enough for my liking. It definately imo feels a lot better and more powerful than 3rd in a Mazda6

Plus the euro just loves to bounce to redline so fast :) i think it needs to be higher :D

[aaronng]

I like 2nd gear in the euro.. i don't ever get to stretch to 3rd gear to redline.. because by the time i get 2nd to red and shift into 3rd.. and look at the speed i'm already hitting 100km+

But 3rd does feel steady and powerful enough for my liking. It definately imo feels a lot better and more powerful than 3rd in a Mazda6

Plus the euro just loves to bounce to redline so fast :) i think it needs to be higher :D
Usually where I drive, I can only get to hi-cam in 1st gear. 2 weeks ago, I took the car out to the Old Pac highway, and then back through the Sydney-Newcastle freeway. Joining the freeway, I let the car rip, 2nd to red and 3rd up to the speed limit. :p The sound was lovely!!!!! And to think all this while I was cheating myself with the 1st gear hi-cam induction sound!

I'm waiting for Hondata... then I can have nice hi-cam from 5000rpm onwards.

[PERTH_EURO]

That is 3rd gear - I am in far north WA at the moment on holiday. Lots of road trains and old people in caravans to pass in the outback

hey come and say hello, theres only about 100km of dirt roads :P (near Tom Price)

the time is closer for yfin to experiance WA's best euros :thumbsup:

[VirIIx]

Usually where I drive, I can only get to hi-cam in 1st gear. 2 weeks ago, I took the car out to the Old Pac highway, and then back through the Sydney-Newcastle freeway. Joining the freeway, I let the car rip, 2nd to red and 3rd up to the speed limit. :p The sound was lovely!!!!! And to think all this while I was cheating myself with the 1st gear hi-cam induction sound!

I'm waiting for Hondata... then I can have nice hi-cam from 5000rpm onwards.

LOL i know what you mean by loving the sound! Anytime i get a chance to get on the motorway eg M2, i love hearing the engine go from 1st to 2nd red and then shifting into 3rd follow through into the speed limit :)

I just wish i could listen to 3rd as well go up - won't ever happen unless im on a dyno i reckon hahaha.

But the slightly deeper sound of the icebox i have makes it so much nicer than the stock squeel!

[yfin]

hey come and say hello, theres only about 100km of dirt roads :P (near Tom Price)

the time is closer for yfin to experiance WA's best euros :thumbsup:

That would have been good - but I am back in Perth now - drove 1250kms today! I wish I had my camera - you guys should see a Euro covered top to bottom in red mud and insects. The roads were flooded in parts up north (some sections around 25cm under water - like a river!) - no hydrolock issue at all with the Icebox. I also drove at 110k/ph in torrential rain for a few hours with lots of large puddles, etc.

Ok - back to topic now fellas -

[aaronng]

That would have been good - but I am back in Perth now - drove 1250kms today! I wish I had my camera - you guys should see a Euro covered top to bottom in red mud and insects. The roads were flooded in parts up north (some sections around 25cm under water - like a river!) - no hydrolock issue at all with the Icebox. I also drove at 110k/ph in torrential rain for a few hours with lots of large puddles, etc.

Ok - back to topic now fellas -
I've had enough insects during my drive from Sydney to Canberra. I parked at a parking lot that was not tarred, and the ants (huge ones about 1cm in length) went all over the front of my car to collect the insect carcasses!

[Pum[Z]]

hey come and say hello, theres only about 100km of dirt roads :P (near Tom Price)

the time is closer for yfin to experiance WA's best euros :thumbsup:

Yeah but then Timbo ur Euro is in Perth... U work in woop woop land.. Heheheeh.. But agree we have to meet ya Yfin while ur in Perth... Give u some good local info and of course Perth's finest euro's :D

[Peekay34]

I owned a Sportivo Corolla and I would say they would do a Euro once they go into lift and fourth gear forget it. With minor mods would ie intake would easily do a Euro. Sorry Guys I love the Euro I have but the Corolla is very quick. And since I have owned both ..well you can understand I have first hand knowledge.

[_CiVIC_]

my brother has a 2004 sportivo and daaaaaaaaaayaaam its quick.. he just recently had it timed for 1/4mile it pulled a 14.5 almost as quick as a stock typeS :D

[coladuna]

I owned a Sportivo Corolla and I would say they would do a Euro once they go into lift and fourth gear forget it. With minor mods would ie intake would easily do a Euro. Sorry Guys I love the Euro I have but the Corolla is very quick. And since I have owned both ..well you can understand I have first hand knowledge.

That's the initial impression I got despite the short time behind the wheels of Corolla Sportivo. However, telling some Honda drivers that some other cars are faster is like throwing eggs at a brick wall.
From what I have heard, the 05 model is even better than the 03 model.

[hnm738]

are 04 and 03 euro the same?

[albii]

my brother has a 2004 sportivo and daaaaaaaaaayaaam its quick.. he just recently had it timed for 1/4mile it pulled a 14.5 almost as quick as a stock typeS :D
i'm sorry that doesnt make any sense...14.5?? type s is a 15 sec car and no way will a sportivo be that quick.

[Chris_F]

^^^ agreed

[EuroAccord13]

I happened to drive my friend's Sportivo last night too! That nifty car is quick and it's stock and got only 10000 plus kms on it... I have to agree.. Stock vs. Stock, the car will beat the euro. From my drive, it's slow of the line but the top end pulls.....

[albii]

sorry guys but even driving one you couldnt come to that conclusion...diff cars and the corolla is no way near as refined as the euro...check quarter mile figures for the two......i'm sorry but the quickest i have seen for a sportivo is low 16s..mattell here on these forums ran a 15.5 in his euro stock and i have seen figures of 15.23 for a stock euro..anyone who has actually had a proper drag race at a track will know there is a heck of a diff in even .5 sec...the sportivo may rev hard no doubt but as quick as the euro it is not and 14.5 no way....

[hnm738]

sometimes cant really base on figures all the time due to weather and road conditions or what sort of wheels, tires, or even the engine oil makes a little difference ....and not many drivers are going to rev launch their car to get 15.5...also depends on drivers

0.5 secs would probably be a differences on 1-2 car length in terms of 1/4mile i think

[Blew_lude]

try 5 car lengths...seeing the car will be pass 150km/h

[albii]

try 5 car lengths...seeing the car will be pass 150km/h
exactly....

[aaronng]

IMHO, we shouldn't be claiming either car being faster. A car doesn't drive itself. The driver plays a BIG part in it. You can give a driver a WRX, and if he doesn't know how to launch an AWD car, it won't be a match against even an Euro.
If you want to compare, then compare cars AND drivers. Not just the car alone based on numbers from many different conditions. 1 driver should do the 1/4 mile for both the Sportivo and Euro on the same day, within the closest possible time. Then I'll believe which is faster. Both are good value cars and there is no point telling the other camp that your car is not faster, not smoother, not refined, not cheaper, not more expensive, not pimper, not whatever.

[albii]

fact is it is not as refined and not smoother...people here are saying that the corolla is not good down low well of course its not cos it only 180nm.....you got to rev the ring off it to get it going...we all know that they have a large range for mods ,they both have but 14.5 is just a joke...maybe a low blow turbo on a sportivo will do a 14.5..but otherwise not a chance.

[hnm738]

true that 14.5 is abit too much for stock on average a stock s2000 would do that or s15 , wrx but not sportivo unless he has done something to the engine

[blkeuro]

yeah agree...no way could a stock type S pull a 14.5 1/4 mile...let alone a corolla!!
My stock DC5 integra could only manage 15.1secs....after I/H/E I managed to pull it down to a 14.7 (all G-tech times).

[Chris_F]

i think the debate has been resolved:

Euro - no reason why it shouldn't ne easily just as quick as sportivo

Sportivo - when driven it feels faster but is likely due to the way it revs and the power curve.

I don't think there's much more that can be said... be interesting to see a dyno of the two cars if anyone has access to them

:D guestimate:
euro
......./.........
...../ .......
.../.........
sportivo
.....|.......
.....|.......
___|.......

[VirIIx]

I like that conclusion.

All factors play into everything

The skill of the driver, the characteristic of the driver - though i've heard that heavy ppl in a car can pull quicker times than people half their weight, i can actually believe that because of the skill of the driver.

It's also the conditions, the Euro in the wet, even with VSA on, can still lose traction - there's just a lot of torque for a FF wheel car, and im sure type of tyres would help.

I agree with the WRX analogy as well from experience :D

Both cars are good in their own way and both have their advantages and disadvantages, i enjoyed reading the discussion - that's always a good thing when ppl aren't flaming each other.

[ITRBoI]

i'm sorry that doesnt make any sense...14.5?? type s is a 15 sec car and no way will a sportivo be that quick.

hmmmm......don think the sportivo is that quick!!! type s should be the better one off......hmmmm......sounds fishy to me, but than again what do i know i own a type R hehaehahe :D

[coladuna]

Sportivo - when driven it feels faster but is likely due to the way it revs and the power curve.


I think this argument is quite a bit of non-sense. Speedo's what you use to gauge how fast the car's going, not the way it revs.
I like my Euro, but I don't think it's as fast as Corolla Sportivo.
It's just too heavy. 200kg weight difference is huge. It's like carrying 3-4 passengers. I'm sure all of you notice a huge difference in performance when you are driving by yourself and when you have a full load of passengers in your car. I certainly feel it.
BTW, hardly any of you have even driven the car, so it's purely speculation.
I would've argued that Euro will be faster due to better torque if I haven't driven the Corolla myself.

[albii]

still cant agree with you....my mate had a zr celica and that weighs 100kg less than the sportivo and while it does rev hard it is certainly not as quick...

[Chris_F]

i've also driven my next door neighbours celica and although its quick in higher revs i didn't think it was any quicker overall at all. It's why i have a hard time believing the corolla would be - liek you said weight makes a difference.

-the weight difference between difference between a standard euro and the sportivo is more along the lines of 140kg.


I'm sitting on the fence - sorry but no one can say which is quicker by using a "but dyno" they have different characteristics.





I think this argument is quite a bit of non-sense

I don't

The euro is renowned for feeling "slow" its decieving how quick it is because of its progressive power curve.


Speedo's what you use to gauge how fast the car's going, not the way it revs.

:D out of context i know - but you said it! It might feel faster but thats the thing without any solid information its just a feeling.

Don't trust your butt, both cars need to go to the drag-strip before i or anyone should believe anything.

[PERTH_EURO]

I recently drove a Sportivo that my GF was looking at.

Was impressed but you do notice the lack of "pull" i spose.
The only thing that lets the rolla down is the way it looks.... there is not alot of them around in Perth interestingly.

In the end we walked away from the car, but i was impressed

[coladuna]

Some of you keep on saying Sportivo is slow in low-rev range but aren't you forgetting the fact that Euro also has a high revving engine? Sure it has more torque but it also has that extra weight.
Isn't it contradicting to say that Euro feels deceivingly slow and yet, Sportivo is deceivingly fast? Anyway, I'll be in a much better position to comment on this after spending some time behind the wheel of Sportivo, which will be here this Wednesday.

[albii]

another point is.......i drove a mazda 6 luxury sport...feels quicker than the euro much quicker actually why cos it drives like a truck and its no where near as refined....another thing my 4000km old triton v6 feels quicker than my euro but its no where near it in accelerating why does it feel so quick cos its no where near as refined and as smooth to drive....one more thing..there is no way a $19990 derived car is gonna be as smooth and refined as a $35000 derived car ..

[aaronng]

2ZZ-GE is considered high revving because the peak torque rpm is close to the peak power rpm, and both are close to redline.
2ZZ-GE 141kW@7800rpm, 180Nm@6800rpm (1000rpm powerband)
K24A3 140kW@6800rpm, 223Nm@4500rpm (2300rpm powerband)

So the Euro's engine may be high revving, but it is not the same class of high revving as the 2ZZ-GE.

[aaronng]

another point is.......i drove a mazda 6 luxury sport...feels quicker than the euro much quicker actually why cos it drives like a truck and its no where near as refined....another thing my 4000km old triton v6 feels quicker than my euro but its no where near it in accelerating why does it feel so quick cos its no where near as refined and as smooth to drive....one more thing..there is no way a $19990 derived car is gonna be as smooth and refined as a $35000 derived car ..
What do you mean by derived car? The engine and the gearbox of the sportivo comes from a $39300 car (Celica SX manual).

Also, the $19990 Ascent comes from Japan, while the Sportivo comes from South Africa.

[albii]

What do you mean by derived car? The engine and the gearbox of the sportivo comes from a $39300 car (Celica SX manual).
yeah but the drive train is all $19990

[albii]

we are talking nvh levels smoothness and heck that yamaha engine isnt very smooth either

[aaronng]

yeah but the drive train is all $19990
But how can you determine drivetrain smoothness from the price?

Example, a DC2R that cost over $40000. Based on price, it means the $35000 Euro should be less refined. Let's all go test drive Sportivos and determine if the driveline is that harsh.

[albii]

But how can you determine drivetrain smoothness from the price?

Example, a DC2R that cost over $40000. Based on price, it means the $35000 Euro should be less refined. Let's all go test drive Sportivos and determine if the driveline is that harsh.
i drove a sportivo and a celica and the celica isnt as refined as i thought it would be and the corolla is less. btw you cant compare a 7 yo car to a new one either..thats like saying then why is a 1985 porsche 911 not as refined as a euro doesnt make sense.

[Suntzu]

I dont get it. If Id wanted a pissy toyota i would have bought one! There no comparison. The Euros the better all round car. Dunno what you guys are arguing about.

[jl88rl]

Exactly, sound like my gf nagging.

Can someone pls post up better threads that have real essence.

[VirIIx]

i think this topic has watered down, it's just the same old stuff over the last few pages.. let's move on.

Now.. i think my euro is better than a souped up excel because... :p

[albii]

i want to compare an elephant with a bicycle..the elephant feels quicker to me.

[aaronng]

i drove a sportivo and a celica and the celica isnt as refined as i thought it would be and the corolla is less. btw you cant compare a 7 yo car to a new one either..thats like saying then why is a 1985 porsche 911 not as refined as a euro doesnt make sense.
Ooops..... DC5R

Okok, time to post in threads with substance... I admit, I think I sound like a child in my posts....

[Da1nONLY]

Wow!! =)

another sportivo thread...
interesting!! =)
Theres one in the civic forum...
read it... thats quiet interesting too.....
theres a sportivo in there who beats s15's and skylines.. =)
so apparently..they arent too slow =).
Corolla's aint bad.... reliable car...

[coladuna]

I dont get it. If Id wanted a pissy toyota i would have bought one! There no comparison. The Euros the better all round car. Dunno what you guys are arguing about.

*sigh* I like Honda and my Euro but I just can't stand fanboy comments like this.

Albii, if you think your truck (triton or whatever) feels quick, obviously, your sense of speed is seriously impaired. I still don't see how you can think a car can feel that quick just because it's not as refined. I agree to some extent but your argument is way over the top. Ofcourse Sportivo engine won't be as smooth as Euro's. Euro's are 'luxury' sedans, not sports hatchback. That's completely irrelevant IMO.

[albii]

*sigh* I like Honda and my Euro but I just can't stand fanboy comments like this.

Albii, if you think your truck (triton or whatever) feels quick, obviously, your sense of speed is seriously impaired. I still don't see how you can think a car can feel that quick just because it's not as refined. I agree to some extent but your argument is way over the top. Ofcourse Sportivo engine won't be as smooth as Euro's. Euro's are 'luxury' sedans, not sports hatchback. That's completely irrelevant IMO.
ever driven a v6 triton?? if you had you wouldnt think i was impaired...and yes a car does feel quicker the less refined it is...and if you think otherwise then its you thats impaired..its simple fact..unless of course all you have ever driven is hondas or bmws.

[albii]

*sigh* I like Honda and my Euro but I just can't stand fanboy comments like this.


why is that a fanboy comment??? Suntzu just picked up his car and is overly impressed with it.......and i think he is right in saying his euro shits on the sportivo.........apparantly i'm a fanboy also...well SORRY for believing the euro is quicker better and more refined than the corolla.. but then again isnt it? considering i have owned vast types of cars including 76 fiat 128 3p, 95 hyundai excel 95 lancer gsr turbo ,94 liberty rs turbo , 98 v6 magna ,99 forester gt and now the euro doesnt really make me a honda boy now does it...see i could say you are a stuck up mummys boy who still gets his arse wiped by her but in doing so i would just be speaking crap...sound familiar to you?

[coladuna]

ever driven a v6 triton?? if you had you wouldnt think i was impaired...and yes a car does feel quicker the less refined it is...and if you think otherwise then its you thats impaired..its simple fact..unless of course all you have ever driven is hondas or bmws.

Well, I owned Honda Prelude before the Euro and that was no where as refined as the Euro or even the Corolla. I'm pretty sure I can distinguish the speed from just noise/rattles/vibrations.

To whoever who said that the thread is becoming repetitive, that's because hardly anyone here even drove it properly yet, making their speculation sound like fact.

[coladuna]

why is that a fanboy comment??? Suntzu just picked up his car and is overly impressed with it.......and i think he is right in saying his euro shits on the sportivo.........apparantly i'm a fanboy also...well SORRY for believing the euro is quicker better and more refined than the corolla.. but then again isnt it? considering i have owned vast types of cars including 76 fiat 128 3p, 95 hyundai excel 95 lancer gsr turbo ,94 liberty rs turbo , 98 v6 magna ,99 forester gt and now the euro doesnt really make me a honda boy now does it...see i could say you are a stuck up mummys boy who still gets his arse wiped by her but in doing so i would just be speaking crap...sound familiar to you?

Calling other cars 'pissy' with no substantial facts to back it up can only be looked at as fanboy comment. What else is that? are you that blind?
It's exactly the same as Nissan drivers making fun of Honda drivers. Nothing different.

Just the fact that you owned many different cars doesn't make your non-sense argument correct. "Euro feels slower because it's refined" that's what I was referring to.

Obviously, the Euro is a superior car. They cost $10K more or something.
That's not even relevant here. Nobody even brought refinement into the argument before you did. I don't see how refinement has anything to do with speed. lol
I've been in Hyundai Excel, which had the worst NVH level ever and that didn't make it feel any faster. In fact, it made it feel even slower because it made heaps of noise but it didn't go anywhere.

[Euro05]

Just been going through my old Motor magazines. Best they could get from the Sportivo was 16 sec flat for the 1/4 mile. A long way off 14.5 secs, and these guys can drive.

[coladuna]

Just been going through my old Motor magazines. Best they could get from the Sportivo was 16 sec flat for the 1/4 mile. A long way off 14.5 secs, and these guys can drive.

*sigh* 05 Sportivo is different from older models. It's been revised to meet the claimed power output figure because previous models didn't produce the claimed power output. I'm really getting tired of people commenting on things that they don't know about. :thumbdwn:

[red_s2000]

No way it can get 14.5. And IMHO, you cannot consider neither the Euro or Sportivo quick in any measures. They are not slow but I can't call them fast. When you have WRX, STI, B4, GT, S15, S2000, RX8 in the market.. Even a Forester XT will be faster than both Euro and Sportivo.

[Blew_lude]

Just been going through my old Motor magazines. Best they could get from the Sportivo was 16 sec flat for the 1/4 mile. A long way off 14.5 secs, and these guys can drive.

there times are of flat starts.

the type S does 15.4?...now that is bullshit on a stick!!

[Euro05]

Coladuna, I'm not saying that the Sportivo is slow/crap etc. I quoted Motor magazine to show what time an experienced driver could get out of the car. It's not my fault if Toyota misled there customers and sold them cars that didn't produce the power they were supposed to, as you claim, although I find it hard to believe that a company with the reliabilty/quality control of Toyota would allow that to happen.

[SiReal]

hehe..its funny reading all these..chill guys. we're all here to have fun ^o^. Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan whatever...cars are cars. No point in dissing anyone personally over a car is there? SMILE! Doesnt matter if one is quicker than the other. Most of us will never get on the 1/4 mile strip or even use the full 7000rpm powerband often enough anyway. SMILE! I'm happy! Then again..all this coffee is getting to me.

[coladuna]

Coladuna, I'm not saying that the Sportivo is slow/crap etc. I quoted Motor magazine to show what time an experienced driver could get out of the car. It's not my fault if Toyota misled there customers and sold them cars that didn't produce the power they were supposed to, as you claim, although I find it hard to believe that a company with the reliabilty/quality control of Toyota would allow that to happen.

Whether you want to believe it or not, it did happen and it's well known by many people. That's why if you look at the current Sportivo spec sheet, they emphasise that the power output has been achieved using some standard test or something. That's also why Sportivo has been missing from the Toyota website for quite some time. So you don't need to doubt whether it really happened or not because it did.

[albii]

coladuna if you cant understand that a car with very good nvh and very linear in the way it makes power could be decievingly quick i couldnt give a damn...i have also been in a m3 which is a very smooth car by any means and my forester felt like it could flog the **** off it but we all know there was no way that would happen..why cos the m3 is not brakeneck acceleration its very linear in the way it produces power and has better nvh...
dont know about you but i have driven enough cars to understand this.
exhaust noise, suspension height type of mods and yes even nvh make a car feel faster than it really is......tell me why is it that when someone puts a exhaust on a car that they feel it has unleashed some sort of magical hidden power only to get beaten by a stocko??

[coladuna]

coladuna if you cant understand that a car with very good nvh and very linear in the way it makes power could be decievingly quick i couldnt give a damn...i have also been in a m3 which is a very smooth car by any means and my forester felt like it could flog the **** off it but we all know there was no way that would happen..why cos the m3 is not brakeneck acceleration its very linear in the way it produces power and has better nvh...
dont know about you but i have driven enough cars to understand this.
exhaust noise, suspension height type of mods and yes even nvh make a car feel faster than it really is......tell me why is it that when someone puts a exhaust on a car that they feel it has unleashed some sort of magical hidden power only to get beaten by a stocko??

Geez. What a bunch of non-sense blabbing. Can't you see that you are the weird one who seems to think harshness creates sensation of speed? I couldn't give a damn whether you think it does or not either because just by reading what you've wrote, it's crystal clear that it's all bunch of non-sense.
Your example of someone with new exhuast just shows how limited your thinking is. So what some idiot with a new exhuast thinks that it made his car blindingly fast??? I don't even see what you are trying to prove with that example. In answer to your question, I'll say that it's because that person is in a fantasy world. Frankly, I don't even see the point of arguing with someone who comes up with that sort example to backup his argument.

[yfin]

Coladuna - Albii is entitled to his opinion.

If you disagree - that is fine - just leave the personal comments out when you post.

Does anyone else have something new to say about this thread? I think it has been done to death.

[albii]

Geez. What a bunch of non-sense blabbing. Can't you see that you are the weird one who seems to think harshness creates sensation of speed? I couldn't give a damn whether you think it does or not either because just by reading what you've wrote, it's crystal clear that it's all bunch of non-sense.
Your example of someone with new exhuast just shows how limited your thinking is. So what some idiot with a new exhuast thinks that it made his car blindingly fast??? I don't even see what you are trying to prove with that example. In answer to your question, I'll say that it's because that person is in a fantasy world. Frankly, I don't even see the point of arguing with someone who comes up with that sort example to backup his argument.
um ok ..go back and read the posts ..you are the only one here that believes what you say..no one else is agreeing with you so once again SORRY. :wave:

[Euro05]

Just thought i'd do a bit of research on the Sportivo's issues, and apparantly they did have a lot of issues that have hopefully been rectified for the 05 model. One interesting post I did find on the Toyota Owners Club forum was this:

coladuna Jun 28 2005, 11:59 AM
I bought my Sportivo (Black) last Saturday which I'll be picking up tomorrow.
My initial impression from the test drive was pretty good. I expected it to struggle down low but that wasn't the case at all. I might also add that there were total of 4 people in the car during the test drive. For the price, I think it's an excellent value and I really couldn't think of any other car that came close within that price range when I was researching for my new car. Compared to my brother's Accord Euro Luxury, the gearbox isn't as smooth but it might be partly due to the fact that the demo car only had about 8kms on the clock (not 8000kms). After I get more time behind the wheels, I'll let you know in more detail.
I can't wait to drive it tomorrow~ Only if I didn't have to go to work Grrr....

So Coladuna, which car do you actually own? You claim on this forum you're brother bought the Sportivo and you own the Euro. Do you actually own a car? Maybe you need a good lie down.

[D16Y]

Just thought i'd do a bit of research on the Sportivo's issues, and apparantly they did have a lot of issues that have hopefully been rectified for the 05 model. One interesting post I did find on the Toyota Owners Club forum was this:

coladuna Jun 28 2005, 11:59 AM
I bought my Sportivo (Black) last Saturday which I'll be picking up tomorrow.
My initial impression from the test drive was pretty good. I expected it to struggle down low but that wasn't the case at all. I might also add that there were total of 4 people in the car during the test drive. For the price, I think it's an excellent value and I really couldn't think of any other car that came close within that price range when I was researching for my new car. Compared to my brother's Accord Euro Luxury, the gearbox isn't as smooth but it might be partly due to the fact that the demo car only had about 8kms on the clock (not 8000kms). After I get more time behind the wheels, I'll let you know in more detail.
I can't wait to drive it tomorrow~ Only if I didn't have to go to work Grrr....

So Coladuna, which car do you actually own? You claim on this forum you're brother bought the Sportivo and you own the Euro. Do you actually own a car? Maybe you need a good lie down.

[kingboost]

another point is.......i drove a mazda 6 luxury sport...feels quicker than the euro much quicker actually why cos it drives like a truck and its no where near as refined....another thing my 4000km old triton v6 feels quicker than my euro but its no where near it in accelerating why does it feel so quick cos its no where near as refined and as smooth to drive....one more thing..there is no way a $19990 derived car is gonna be as smooth and refined as a $35000 derived car ..
you tell em albii, the truck hauled arse though quite bouncey :thumbsup:

[coladuna]

um ok ..go back and read the posts ..you are the only one here that believes what you say..no one else is agreeing with you so once again SORRY. :wave:

Haha. You are such a hypocrite. You say no one agrees with me and you think someone agrees with your hallucination theory??? Hello~~ :wave: Wake up~ :wave:
So I'M sorry.

[coladuna]

So Coladuna, which car do you actually own? You claim on this forum you're brother bought the Sportivo and you own the Euro. Do you actually own a car? Maybe you need a good lie down.

*sigh* why do I bother.... sometimes we use same id on forums because we can't be bothered to make two user ids. So please don't make me laugh with that sort of accusations. It's just that I'm not blinded like SOME fanboys who think that any other car other than theirs' can't be better in ANY aspect.

[kingboost]

Geez. What a bunch of non-sense blabbing. Can't you see that you are the weird one who seems to think harshness creates sensation of speed? I couldn't give a damn whether you think it does or not either because just by reading what you've wrote, it's crystal clear that it's all bunch of non-sense.
Your example of someone with new exhuast just shows how limited your thinking is. So what some idiot with a new exhuast thinks that it made his car blindingly fast??? I don't even see what you are trying to prove with that example. In answer to your question, I'll say that it's because that person is in a fantasy world. Frankly, I don't even see the point of arguing with someone who comes up with that sort example to backup his argument.
Coladuna, Coladuna, Coladuna, your fighting an up hill battle mate and dying fast, your expieriencing a bit hysteria and numbness of the cranium section, maybe you should consider calling your doctor so he/she can pescribe you some prozac or whatever? Just lie down for a day or two, it ain't worth it mate, you get your back up very easily, come on gentlemen can't you see that he's just a bit tooooo passionate about cars.
Maybe you should start to believe and accept what people say from now on because they might have a valid point, it's your pig-headed and stubborn behaviour that lands you in this position :wave:

[albii]

Haha. You are such a hypocrite. You say no one agrees with me and you think someone agrees with your hallucination theory??? Hello~~ :wave: Wake up~ :wave:
So I'M sorry.
um ok i'm right and so is everyone else........except you...hahaha :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[yfin]

Albii / Coladuna - move on to a new thread subject please otherwise this one will need to be closed.

Coladuna - I have asked you to be careful of what you post in terms of personal attacks. There are ways of saying things without calling people "hypocrite, weird, blind etc". Please rephrase your posts in the future and don't just type the first thing that comes to your mind.

Lets keep it friendly. :)

[baboo]

Please lock the thread Yfin.

This is useless stuff

[VirIIx]

concur - lock this thread please

[yfin]

Thread closed - no new posts on topic today which tends to suggest topic covered as far as it can be.

If someone strongly disagrees - please PM me and I will reopen to allow you to post.