Swaybar reinforcement

[ian]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/i_a_n_/brace.jpg

This pic has been sourced from honda-tech (USA) and shows a reinforcement brace (plate) working inconjunction with an aftermarket rear swaybar. Apparently, there have been cases of severe subframe tear causing a "rip" on the actual metal because of the stiffer swaybar.
The forums mention that this plate reduces and/or eliminates possible subrame tear due to the rigid upgraded aftermarket swaybar.
Has anyone seen or know whether this is available here in our market?

[bennjamin]

ian you already have subframe reinforcement for your car mate - no need to worry !
Win has had your swaybar on his car for the past 2 years or so , driven really hard and had no problems whatsoever :)


afaik , there is no other "subframe" reinforcement locally produced - there is a few different tyres in the US etc tho.

BTW that picture quality of work looks rather cheap lol.

[ian]

so what are the yanks goin on and on about? i'm just concerned bout it, before i track the car..........okay.

[bennjamin]

the reinforcement you see , is on your car already Ian -

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/i_a_n_/DSCN2139.jpg

those two large metal bits on the subframe which hold your swaybar to the body , are the "reinforcement".

Dont worry about it - should be fine :)

[ginganggooly]

they aren't talking about subframe tearout -where the bolts pull therough the subframe- they are talking about how the lca pickup points actually start to crack and shear away from the rest of the subframe.
i've seen that happen first hand on an EM1 that had the whiteline bracing (although it had no lower tie-bar which looks as though it may make a difference). The eg's and dc2's look slightly different to the em1's down there, so maybe they're stronger. The brace in that picture would deffinately fix any problems...

be alert, not alarmed :P

[bennjamin]

they aren't talking about subframe tearout -where the bolts pull therough the subframe- they are talking about how the lca pickup points actually start to crack and shear away from the rest of the subframe.
i've seen that happen first hand on an EM1 that had the whiteline bracing (although it had no lower tie-bar which looks as though it may make a difference). The eg's and dc2's look slightly different to the em1's down there, so maybe they're stronger. The brace in that picture would deffinately fix any problems...

be alert, not alarmed :P


full details plz :)

Youve got us all worried....i do know that you had a bad issue with your front castor kit too ?

[ginganggooly]

afaik, i was the first person to get tearout with a whiteline swaybar too :)
thats when they went and fabricated new brackets and a tie-bar.

i've been running with the bracket/swaybar/tie-bar combo for about three years now with no dramas. so i know this combo is safe on our cars.
however the same can't be said for the em1's; my friend with the em1 had the pickup points almost completely shear away from the subframe. the damage looked very scary from underneath. i don't know if he wants anonymity, if he doesn't, i'm sure he'll chime in here and enlighten us all :)

i don't use a castor kit anymore, the bolts ended up bent, one of them actually broke... i think i'll adjust castor with the radius rods now. the only problem is that the thread on the rose joints has siezed up. it's always something.

[ginganggooly]

whiteline actually posts in this forum occaisionally, maybe they could come and lay our fears to rest ;)

[bennjamin]

perhaps with the EM1/ek4 needs further development - from the angle on the reinforcement it looks like it would pivot under high pressure. Im sure the tiebar would help control this movement tho.


Slim - under what circumstances did your castor kit break ? continuous hard driving or just everyday ?

[ginganggooly]

everyday driving- which is pretty much continuous hard driving. i remember the exact cirsumstances actually. i was turning left at a bumpy t-intersection and decided to floor it... got a small amount of wheelhop then i heard something heavy flick up under the car. then my steering went strange.

[Hondavirgin]

Yeah, I'm also running a whiteline rear bar and now all this talk has got me worried too!

Whiteline help!

[bennjamin]

everyday driving- which is pretty much continuous hard driving. i remember the exact cirsumstances actually. i was turning left at a bumpy t-intersection and decided to floor it... got a small amount of wheelhop then i heard something heavy flick up under the car. then my steering went strange.


what did whiteline do to rectify this issue ?
Do they actually use high tensile bolts ( 10+) ?

[SPEEDCORE]

they aren't talking about subframe tearout -where the bolts pull therough the subframe- they are talking about how the lca pickup points actually start to crack and shear away from the rest of the subframe.


Exactly! This is what I actually was refering to in the other thread about swaybars :thumbsup:

[Boost]

looking at the pic ben posted up of the whiteline setup with the reinforcement plate...from what i can see from the pic.. the bushing and bracket of the swaybar is held onto the plate via a U-bolt which is bolted to the back of the reinforcement plate...but this reinforcement plate is bolted to the subframe via the original two bolt hole locations. Doing so renders the reinforcement plate useless... so instead of mounting the brackets to the original holes.. u mount the bracke to a plate which is mounted to the original holes.. so ur just transfer the force through the plate.. then through to the same holes... The holes are too close to the edge of the subframe section.. a too thick sway may tear out the U-bolt, or if the U-bolt doesnt tear out.. the two bolts/screws holding the reinforcement plate to the subframe. All I can see, the plate is there just to hold the tie bar where it is... IMO the first one may look dodgy.. but that looks like it will work a hell lot bette than the whiteline one.. It just needs a bit of anodising to make it more bling.
If the manufacture extended an extra tab on both the inside near the LCA bolt location.. then a tie bar could be fited to it.. I reckon then it will be a nice setup.. OR the LCA can rip out of its hole on the subframe...

[Q_ball]

i think ians jst scared la...
hmm :)
update the list yo!

[ginganggooly]

ben- yes they were high tensile bolts, which is what stumped me. i thought they bend. one possibility is that they managed to work their way loose. i was supposed to take it back to them to get a new kit fitted and alligned, but i couldn't be arsed. whiteline was actually really good at dealing with my concerns...

boost- they don't rely solely on the original swaybar holes. these brackets also mount to the lca pickup point. that is a very strong part of the subframe. i don't think these setups will tearout. and as i said, i've been running it for three years without a hiccough. So, the U-bolt's will not tearout or break (they're goddamn big bolts and the plate is something like 5mm thick), and the plates mount to the two original swaybar bracket points AND the point where the bolt secures the lca. The subframe itsself would crack before tearing anything out, which is exactly what i said happened in my earlier post.

[Boost]

ging: ah ok.. 5mm plate is good.. T6 Al.? Yeh if its not solely dependant on the two exisint holes. then yup it should be good...

[type one]

Did you see the size of that swaybar in the picture though?? it is 24mm if not bigger hehehe... there is no way you could get away with that diameter WITHOUT some type of reinforcement on ANY civic subframe...

[BlitZ]

the ASR USDM kit comes with a std 22mm (OEM) bar...

just liek whiteline..but with honda std pivoting end links

[EGB16A]

ben- yes they were high tensile bolts, which is what stumped me. i thought they bend. one possibility is that they managed to work their way loose. i was supposed to take it back to them to get a new kit fitted and alligned, but i couldn't be arsed. whiteline was actually really good at dealing with my concerns...

boost- they don't rely solely on the original swaybar holes. these brackets also mount to the lca pickup point. that is a very strong part of the subframe. i don't think these setups will tearout. and as i said, i've been running it for three years without a hiccough. So, the U-bolt's will not tearout or break (they're goddamn big bolts and the plate is something like 5mm thick), and the plates mount to the two original swaybar bracket points AND the point where the bolt secures the lca. The subframe itsself would crack before tearing anything out, which is exactly what i said happened in my earlier post.

True that, i had the same thing happen to my eg hatch. the sub frame cracked, and handling felt like my rear tyres were quite flat.. Nothing reinforcing and a decent welder can't fix...

edit: i have an x-speed bar btw

[tinkerbell]

both of my cars (AB Prelude & DA Integra) with big WL rear sway bars have torn the 'un-reinforced' chassis mounts...

the DC2 one is still holding up OK though, it has re-enforcement though...

[tinkerbell]

Did you see the size of that swaybar in the picture though??

26mm+

you NEED that sort of bracing!!!