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Tobster
29-06-2005, 10:43 AM
Just wondering if anyone has fitted an LSD to their Euro?

I was having a quick look at the Spoon website and saw that they do an LSD for the CL7. The Type R also has an LSD standard...

jolt
29-06-2005, 12:14 PM
Remember that the CL7 runs pretty much the same engine and gearbox as the DC5 Type R so any parts listed on the Spoon website won't necessarily fit the CL9. I have heard that the DC5 gearboxes (manual and auto) are very similar to those in the CL9 so in theory your should be able to fit the helical LSD from the Type R in the Euro.

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8536 Someone in the US managed to do this conversion (RSX LSD into TSX) but it was a major PITA with many problems along the way.

Also note that the new Type S DC5 in Australia does not come with an LSD.

Maybe this is a simpler and cheaper option, albeit not quite as complete a solution. http://www.phantomgrip.com (http://www.phantomgrip.com/)

Rod

Tobster
29-06-2005, 12:52 PM
Yeah, I was just wondering if anyone had found a nice neat "drop in"...

The (NSW) car at
http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4286
is listed as having a Helical 1.5 Way LSD...

Incidentally, I thought I'd read that the Integra Type S still had the LSD -- maybe I'm mistaken...

Sulley
29-06-2005, 06:55 PM
how does a LSD improve the car?

jolt
04-07-2005, 10:30 AM
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

Basically it gives you greater control of the car especially when coming out of corners.

Rod

tanghy
04-07-2005, 10:42 AM
Remember that the CL7 runs pretty much the same engine and gearbox as the DC5 Type R so any parts listed on the Spoon website won't necessarily fit the CL9. I have heard that the DC5 gearboxes (manual and auto) are very similar to those in the CL9 so in theory your should be able to fit the helical LSD from the Type R in the Euro.

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8536 Someone in the US managed to do this conversion (RSX LSD into TSX) but it was a major PITA with many problems along the way.

Also note that the new Type S DC5 in Australia does not come with an LSD.

Maybe this is a simpler and cheaper option, albeit not quite as complete a solution. http://www.phantomgrip.com (http://www.phantomgrip.com/)

Rod

phantom grip is junk

hondar
05-07-2005, 12:59 PM
I can get CL7 Cusco LSD unit! I will check with CUSCO if CL7 and CL9 share the same LSD!

adammet04
05-07-2005, 04:21 PM
so better (stronger?) diff will give better handling experience? and should last longer than a stock (weaker?) diff..so a stronger one would be more applicable to higher power cars to reduce stress on wheels, especially when turning ?

tanghy
05-07-2005, 05:45 PM
lsd gives a better cornering line

baboo
05-07-2005, 08:14 PM
I can get CL7 Cusco LSD unit! I will check with CUSCO if CL7 and CL9 share the same LSD!

Got my eyes open right up!!!! more info please.
Can you also get DC5R final drive?

yfin
05-07-2005, 08:16 PM
Noel on TSX Club has fit the LSD from the DC5R- see if I can find his thread later. He is in Sydney.

EuroAccord13
05-07-2005, 08:17 PM
LSD will be beneficial to people who track their cars.... So if you are like Baboo who goes to the tracks.. It's a Must Have Mod ! ! ! ! !

Slugoid
06-07-2005, 02:37 AM
lsd gives a better cornering line

Not 100% true, but it does help....it still depends on the driver in the end ;)

LSD distributes the torque evenly on both wheels when you corner cos inside wheels move less in distance than the outside wheel, hence less speed and and torque require for the inside wheel. Most cars (without an LSD) have open diffs which alter the speed of the inside and outer wheels only and not torque. More in depth read in the "How stuff works" site. In short, LSD gives you more control in and out of corners, as torque is distributed evenly. More grip hence more control.

For everyday driving I really doubt you can feel anything. On a track where you can corner at high speed, LSD is a great addition.

CoZZm0
09-07-2005, 08:24 PM
Wet roads/partially wet roads, entering/exiting drive ways that are on steep/strange angles, LSD is a real "everday item" once you've had one its hard to go back driving the same car without one.

aaronng
09-07-2005, 11:24 PM
LSD is good because you can still accelerate through the corners. Your turning line might end up slightly straighter, but you'll pick up speed instead of spinning your inner wheel.
Has anyone tested the Euro's VSA? Supposedly it will brake the spinning wheel and send torque to the wheel with grip. So far I've only been able to spin both wheels at once, thus setting off the traction control and cutting my accelerator off.

leungie
11-07-2005, 12:29 PM
I've tested the Euro's VSA around corners, but not really sure what it does.
LOL
So this week I'll just drive without it and see

aaronng
11-07-2005, 12:34 PM
I did it!!! At a controlled roundabout. No cars, took the turn, and then I felt ABS! I was like what the!? Because my foot was on the accelerator about 1/4-1/2 throttle. And the car just turned as if it was on a rollercoaster. Very odd feeling. It seems that the car was braking the inner front wheel. I'm not sure if it braked the inner rear as well and I thought I only felt the front. But it was goooood. Hehe. I like VSA.

adammet04
11-07-2005, 02:00 PM
yeah the <!> icon flashes at you when VSA enables i believe, i had it happen in the first 500 k;s i was driving...i went through a massive downpor on the highway, had cruise on, started aquaplaning and drifting a little to the right and then that thing just starts flashing like crazy and the car just sorta straightend up and it was all good...VSA is good but can kill the fun sometimes...your right its great on roundabouts in the wet too...

but back to the LSD....how would VSA affect LSD and vice versa? or is there any effect?

aaronng
11-07-2005, 02:12 PM
Yeah, I like VSA though. Traction control is the one that kills the fun. VSA keeps the car on the line, but traction control cuts power. If they had a switch to turn off traction control but keep VSC on, that would be good.

I'm not sure how LSD would work with VSA, but it should work since LSD would affect the transfer of power to the left and right wheel, while VSA would control the braking of the left and right wheel. Now what if you had a 1.5 or 2 way LSD? That would affect braking I imagine.

At worst, VSA would just not engage where it should while LSD would be doing the work instead since a situation with slippage would not occur as the LSD would have taken care of it (mechanical detection) before VSA has a chance to (electronic detection)

yfin
11-07-2005, 02:48 PM
You can distinguish what the flashes are.

VSA flash or flicker constantly - is traction control working - will flash during the loss of traction.
When you see 3 VSA flashes in a sequence - ie flash flash flash - equally timed apart flashes - that is true VSA oversteer/understeer correction. It will happen AFTER the event.

I learnt all this using near bald tyres in the rain. Got to know the VSA flashes really well around corners.

Aratahu
11-07-2005, 03:26 PM
On the topic of VSA, there's an interesting article (http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/crash-protection-for-pedestrians/2005/07/05/1120329496398.html) in today's The Age. Basically Euro NCAP are equating having ESP systems to seatbelts and airbags - it's something that should definitely be on the priorities list when buying a new car today.

It's such a shame that hardly any cars down here have it. Safety is much more of a priority in Europe.

How about a government tax rebate of $1000 of every ESP equipped car, and make that another $1000 if it sports curtain airbags in addition to sides and fronts. I'd love to see the politician getting behind something real like that, rather than chanting on about the tired old "5 Ks over" mantra.

In my dreams I guess... Now back to the latest posts of this thread:

I tried my Euro's cornering capabilities in the rain the other day; doing a hard left turn with power on that would have caused understeer/slippage in my old Civic, putting throttle down at the same time, I could definitely feel it braking the inner wheels and doing its magic to keep my line. Fantastic stuff. I don't mind it being a complete package of traction and stability control; it works well together.

Also, the marketing brochure quotes the system as providing an "LSD like effect" by braking inner wheels in a turn.

aaronng
11-07-2005, 03:31 PM
You can distinguish what the flashes are.

VSA flash or flicker constantly - is traction control working - will flash during the loss of traction.
When you see 3 VSA flashes in a sequence - ie flash flash flash - equally timed apart flashes - that is true VSA oversteer/understeer correction. It will happen AFTER the event.

I learnt all this using near bald tyres in the rain. Got to know the VSA flashes really well around corners.
In my situation, VSA was on for maybe only a second since it was a roundabout. But I can feel the difference between traction control and VSA. Traction control cuts the throttle, you can see the revs drop and feel the deceleration. What i felt was the ABS vibration and my car turning weirdly while still accelerating. Hehehe.

For the guy who told the new Euro owner that the wonderful feeling of getting a new car disappears after you pick it up, it's things that this that bring the smile back to your face. :D

yfin
11-07-2005, 03:51 PM
In my situation, VSA was on for maybe only a second since it was a roundabout. But I can feel the difference between traction control and VSA. Traction control cuts the throttle, you can see the revs drop and feel the deceleration. What i felt was the ABS vibration and my car turning weirdly while still accelerating. Hehehe.


True - it is also kinda eery to see the revs stand still when you have your foot to the floor on the throttle.

It is somewhat strange you are feeling the ABS vibration with VSA. I have not experienced that. Usually with VSA I just notice the car change its line - slide for a few metres then straighten up.

I am so glad i have new tyres.

aaronng
11-07-2005, 04:11 PM
True - it is also kinda eery to see the revs stand still when you have your foot to the floor on the throttle.

It is somewhat strange you are feeling the ABS vibration with VSA. I have not experienced that. Usually with VSA I just notice the car change its line - slide for a few metres then straighten up.

I am so glad i have new tyres.
Hehe, what I find the most weird is my revs climbing and speedo climbing but not feeling acceleration (uphill in the rain). Hehehe. I think better tyres would help me greatly as I am on the stock SP2050m and I can't use any more than 3/4 throttle in 1st in the wet (after the rain). I have to stick to less than 1/2 if it is raining moderately.

I think the VSA brakes the individual wheels using the Brake Assist and ABS systems. This way it can control individual wheels (Euro's ABS system being a 4-channel).

Maybe it's because the feeling of sliding the masks the ABS vibration? Probably different situations give different responses. What I felt was a definite ABS activation in just one side.

I've used the ABS in normal braking before, and I felt that the car vibrated quite violently. With VSA's wheel braking, it was not that strong and I could feel it very noticebly only on the one side of the car.

yfin
11-07-2005, 10:03 PM
Maybe it's because the feeling of sliding the masks the ABS vibration? Probably different situations give different responses. What I felt was a definite ABS activation in just one side. .

That sounds right - but there was little or no noise in the slide. More of a skate in my old tyres:D . I think you are right about different responses. What i have seen is a more slight application of brakes to individual wheels. Could not hear anything. Just the car changing direction.

aaronng
12-07-2005, 12:29 AM
That sounds right - but there was little or no noise in the slide. More of a skate in my old tyres:D . I think you are right about different responses. What i have seen is a more slight application of brakes to individual wheels. Could not hear anything. Just the car changing direction.
I tried it again tonight, a bit less aggressive. You're right. This time the vibration was not as noticeable (because it was earlier in the night than before and my gf was in the car). She did confirm that the turning was weird, like the way a bulldozer turns. Hahahah... I"m loving my Euro more each day!