B18C Compression Test / Smoking

[yourfather]

Hi!

As it says in my profile, I have a '97 VTi-R

I was wondering -

Between 6,500 and 8,000 rpm I've noticed black smoke coming out of my exhaust.


Could the smoke be in relation to the VTEC and inappropriate spark plugs being in the cylinder. Or is it more likely that my Piston Rings and seals in the engine are becoming worn over time and require changing.

Or even having excess fuel burning off. It doesn't appear to smell, or be grey in any form, although, it doesn't seem to be going through a HEAP of oil. I've spoken to a Honda dealer, and they just can't seem to be bothered with actually testing or solving the issue, just want to take my cash.


So I moved on to a new mechanic.

Seeing as up until now, I've been getting the car serviced by a honda dealer, I've been using Honda FEO oil in the vehicle since I have had it, and my mechanic decided to put Penrite HPR10 in it, and a shitty Ryco Z79 oil filter. Whilst he was doing this, he also managed to put in NGK ZFR5F-11 spark plugs, which are what the manual suggests for a GSi, but not for the VTi-R. And decided that my distributor was no longer working and got it "repaired" with a new coil and pick ups. Are they just talking a load of crap. Charging me 250.00 for a "repair" on my distributor when the car was actually running fine? He did all of this without consulting me on what I would actually like with the vehicle. So, I refused to drive it off today, and I told him I would come talk to him on monday. He also neglected to look at the SRS. Which is a nice big red light on the instrument panel saying "look @ me"

So, after browsing around online, and reading a lot of information, I settled on keeping these items, and on monday getting him to replace the crap he bolted on and explain what exactly he thought he was doing.

He also believed that the air filter was not that dirty, and decided to clean it by blasting it with air.

The parts I intend on getting him to install are:


K&N Oil Filter - HP-1004
NGK Iridium Spark Plugs - BKR6EIX-11


I had the mechanic perform a compression test on the engine, and these are my results

(readings are of course in psi)
Dry Wet
Cyl 1. 190 210
Cyl 2. 195 210
Cyl 3. 185 210
Cyl 4. 190 210


Are these readings of any concern considering the "usual" B18C reads approximately 200psi per cylinder.

Sorry for so many questions, maybe someone has some concrete answers, or maybe even knows a decent mechanic so I can keep the VTi-R in the condition that it deserves.

yf.

[locote]

black smoke usualy means your running rich. i had my last car tuned rich at top end and theres was a bit of blak smoke coming out a round 6 to 7000 rpm

[strepto]

Its hard to help out with these problems without actually looking at the engine. I suggest you do a leakdown test, as well as an A/F readout from the entire RPM range (when engine is hot). This will show you if the engine is running too rich or too low. If you are going to swap out the pistonrings, make sure you hone the block before you put them in again. This will ensure a tight fit, as well as proper lubrication and friction. The honing part is where most people go wrong, and get a bad result - no fun in a wasted effort.

There are complete gasket kits for your engine. I suggest you set a day or two aside to swap them all out. Have your head resurfaced, valveseats done, swap out the valveseals and clean the runners. Swap out the headgasket after you resurface the head (make sure to copperspray the gasket on both sides before you put it back on). This will give your engine another 100.000 kilometers of pleasure :)

[GSI-PSI]

The same smoke was comin outa my gsi and 3 months later i spun a bottom end bearing. Sorry 2 say bit it sounds like ya engines on the way. How many km has it done? And compression test is fine. Id just worry about that 3rd cylinder mate. Make sure u dont drive it once that knocking noise comes from below ya engine.

[VTECACCORD]

woo long post, read it completely.

Ur compression numbers are fine, their all above 200 and the same in each cylinder, so it doesn't sound like anything wrong internally.

Black smoke usually does mean its oil thats burning, it may be your pcv system (the valve is faulty and its letting more blow by into the combustion chamber, id change the pcv valve, its like 20 bucks, and see if that works.

[kousoku]

mate, take your car up to sydney and go see rob @ hanny's i'm sure he can located the problem and fix it for very reasonable price.

[VTECACCORD]

mate, take your car up to sydney and go see rob @ hanny's i'm sure he can located the problem and fix it for very reasonable price.

holly shit that is by far the best piece of advice ever given out on this board.
Yeah I agree completely drive the 900 km to sydney and get it fixed and then drive the 900 km back.

[yourfather]

Well, uhm, not really planning on going to Sydney to get it fixed.

It's not that much of a burn, I took it to a new mechanic today, and he said that compression isn't the issue. BUT ~ I dunno, I will look into the PCV thing...

I'm not all that tech savvy on cars.

I don't think replacing all the gaskets would be really critical at this stage, because there are no external oil leaks from the engine. I think it is all internal. And it is only at the high rev range of the engine....

So is it a piston ring problem, or a valve problem, or both? The engine is 143,000k's

[kousoku]

holly shit that is by far the best piece of advice ever given out on this board.
Yeah I agree completely drive the 900 km to sydney and get it fixed and then drive the 900 km back.


vtecaccord you are by far the most usless person on this forum.

[ProECU]

Its hard to help out with these problems without actually looking at the engine. I suggest you do a leakdown test, as well as an A/F readout from the entire RPM range (when engine is hot). This will show you if the engine is running too rich or too low. If you are going to swap out the pistonrings, make sure you hone the block before you put them in again. This will ensure a tight fit, as well as proper lubrication and friction. The honing part is where most people go wrong, and get a bad result - no fun in a wasted effort.

There are complete gasket kits for your engine. I suggest you set a day or two aside to swap them all out. Have your head resurfaced, valveseats done, swap out the valveseals and clean the runners. Swap out the headgasket after you resurface the head (make sure to copperspray the gasket on both sides before you put it back on). This will give your engine another 100.000 kilometers of pleasure :)

What the ??

maybe he should do a complete engine rebuild...

Sheezuz, Internet mechs!

[VTECACCORD]

vtecaccord you are by far the most usless person on this forum.


*come on guys HUG*:D

in all seriousness you should check the pcv system, if you get a lot of blow by then oil vapours enter the combustion chamber and come out through the exhaust, and if you drive it very hard all the time then u will see black smoke.

An oil catch can is an add on used to catch any oil that passes through the system preventing it from entering the combustion chamber. Do a search on honda-tech and u will see a lot of people use catch cans on racing applications to prevent exactly what you decribe

[yourfather]

Well, I got the car back tonight. I haven't really driven it much yet...

I didn't get him to look at the PCV system. It feels a lot better now. I don't understand how an oil catch can will be of much benefit to the vehicle if I'm only using it for street though