Best 8 cylinder engine in the world

[V8_Hero]

I reckon the LS2. 6.0 v8 300kw
what are you thoughts?

[lloydbanks]

hmm, dunno, I wasn't aware any Honda's came in v8's.... ;)

[V8_Hero]

errr did i say it had to be a honda?
omg not everything revolves around honda
...*smacks head*

[CTR Coupe]

The new Mugen Legend Max engine

* Engine name: Mugen MF408S
* Engine type: V8 Naturally Aspirated
* Valvetrain: 32 valves, DOHC
* Layout: 90 degree V8 Naturally Aspirated
* Displacement: 4000cc
* Horsepower: 590hp / 9500rpm
* torque: 383lb/ft / 7500rpm
* Restrictor: 33.4mm x2 or 46.8mm x1
* Clutch: Carbon 4 plate

[V8_Hero]

that aint a stock production engine dude

[CTR Coupe]

You never said it had to be a stock production engine you just said best V8 in the world.

[CTR Coupe]

I think Holden should stick to their standard push rod engine design. After the problems with alloy tech. The new quad cam V6 has been cracking heads heaps.
They should have just got the japs to build them an engine for it. They have been f*cking with DOHC a lot longer than anyone else.

[Paul1985]

nobody produces engines like the japs :)
cant go past there quality

[Usual Suspect]

BMW S62 engine form the E39 M5. 400hp (298kw) & 369 lb-ft (500nm) from a 5L V8.

0 to 100 in 4.7 secs.

Beat the shite out of any commo engine imo.

[rev-tech]

i'd say either the older bmw V8 from the M5

the lexus/toyota/nissan 4-4.5L quad camer's

or the new BA falcon quad cam V8

the LS2 is NOTHING special......300kw from a 6L. only "real" change from the old gen 3 is a slightly larger capacity.
When you concider that the in the 70s the GT falcon 351's were making something around 200kw

[Captiva_Blue]

The 4.3 in the new F430 is amazing, the sound is enough to make me need some quiet time after one passes.. In full agreement with Usual Suspect tho, BMW engines (apart from their 4 cylinder ones which are absolutely gutless) can shit all over almost anything the rest of the world can throw at them. Same with their gearboxes. That said, the 5.4L supercharged V8 in the SL55 AMG is prettyt special..

[spoon fit]

3UZ-FE

[V8_Hero]

yeah gotta give it to u there
farkin holdens are still making push rods
when japs had quad cam v8s like 15 years ago

[Sulley]

the koeniegsegg CCR engine.
V8 supercharged
806 BHP
920NM
i went down rosebay to look at a black one the other day..
loads of CF.
the thing looks like a batmobile..
900 000 before taxes etc.

[T-onedc2]

Ls2 is nothing special, 6.0L and only 297kw, I mean BMW's 5.0L from a few years back made a lazy 295ish kw. I mean come on, sohc and 3 (or 2 can't quite recall) valves per cylinder, where's the effort to bring it into todays world let alone the 80's? You don't have to look far to find something far better in refinement and efficiency. Look I was brought up a Holden man with HSV's and Dad's own engine rebuilds, but I discovered High tech machinery and now Dad's converted too, got a Liberty GT and loves it! Mate even my integra's embarrassed a passengerless CV8 with 2 mates in my car. Just some food for thought. No offense intended. :thumbsup:

[Captiva_Blue]

LS2 isn't even overhead cam. Its 1 camshaft that runs down between the cylinder banks which operates pushrods. It has 2 valves per cylinder for a grand total of 16 valves! My D16Y1 has 16 valves.. hmmmn, can anyone say low-tech? :p about the only advantage of pushrod V8s is they seem to be a lot gruntier than their overhead cam cousins for some reason..

[ginganggooly]

the hp/litre argument isn't really valid here as it's much a product of the state of tune of the motor. i've seen an ls1 with ls1 edit, cam, exhaust, header and intake pull something in the vicinity or 290kw at the wheels. thats a shitload of power. i believe the car went on to run a low 12.
thats represented a 6k investment i was told. not bad really.
i can only imagine what an ls2 would do, given it has ~300cc more capacity and -i'm guessing- a better head design.

i hear that the nissan vq45 is an awesome piece of machinery too.

[ginganggooly]

LS2 isn't even overhead cam. Its 1 camshaft that runs down between the cylinder banks which operates pushrods. It has 2 valves per cylinder for a grand total of 16 valves! My D16Y1 has 16 valves.. hmmmn, can anyone say low-tech? :p about the only advantage of pushrod V8s is they seem to be a lot gruntier than their overhead cam cousins for some reason..

the ls1 and ls2 v8's are very well packaged designs. they're small, light and make good power. they might have issues with reciprocating mass, but i still reckon they're the mofo shit.

[Captiva_Blue]

LS1 and LS2... small, light and lots of power does not a good engine make, not when it has 16 valves and 1 camshaft.. they're both pretty damned inefficient stonage machines imo.. If you're after something aussie with shitloads of torque, buy an FPV Tornado.. If you want power, there is a plethora of other machines out there that do the 300kw+ formula using less fuel and putting out fewer tailpipe nasties. I can't think that an engine with basic architechture dating back to the 1970's is a good engine.. Personally I would rather be able to brag about how much power my engine make AND how little fuel it does it with AND how hightech it is rather than just how much it makes.. thats just me..

[spetz]

Old M5 engine for sure

And LS2??? Best V8? It's a pushrod!

[aaronng]

F430's engine. Not as eleagant as F360's but heaps better.

[shmivic]

aussie holden is just plain SHIT!

[PhatSol]

The new Mugen Legend Max engine

2nd that! The mugen V8 was the first motor that poped into my head, quickley followed by the F430 motor :D

[CaP]

Mercedes Benz SL 55 AMG - V8 368kw, 700nm

[IRI]

Mercedes Benz SL 55 AMG - V8 368kw, 700nm


:wave: :thumbsup:

[91'lude]

yeah gotta give it to u there
farkin holdens are still making push rods
when japs had quad cam v8s like 15 years ago

To all you pushrod baggers... the LS2 is a cut down version of the LS7, and the vette has won best performance car years and years in a row... They are pushrod because they choose to be.

Look at fords DOHC, it ****s the weight balence (to high), it makes less power, and it weights more.. yeah big DOHC advantage...

Im not claiming the holden make the best v8 either... id probly go v8... that new Honda F1 engine i read theyd been testing ;)

[IRI]

the vette has won best performance car years and years in a row...

Awarded by who?

[viperx]

Ford's DOHC was no good because it wasn't a engine designed from scratch, it was a compromise bunged together from existing components. They basically did a frankenstein conversion one of us might have done.




To all you pushrod baggers... the LS2 is a cut down version of the LS7, and the vette has won best performance car years and years in a row... They are pushrod because they choose to be.

Look at fords DOHC, it ****s the weight balence (to high), it makes less power, and it weights more.. yeah big DOHC advantage...

Im not claiming the holden make the best v8 either... id probly go v8... that new Honda F1 engine i read theyd been testing ;)

[Nickt]

Mercedes Benz AMG SL 55, or CL 55, or E 55 for that matter...take your pick and stop comparing it with the Holdens and Fords...

And if we are going to talk about Holdens and Fords and Chevs and whatever else you want to throw into the mix, XY GT 351 Cleveland is by far the best "traditional" V8 ever...took Holden 20 years to come up with something anywhere near as good.

[Benji]

where's V8 Hero gone? looks like this experts' favourite V8 can't compete with the other motors mentioned. Maybe he thought honda lovers wouldn't know about V8's?

[ekslut]

Mercedes Benz AMG SL 55, or CL 55, or E 55 for that matter...take your pick and stop comparing it with the Holdens and Fords...

:thumbsup: Agreed

[SiReal]

Go the toyota V8's. As quoted in The Ages Drive yesterday

"Part of the luxo experience was the result of the LS400's powerplant. The 4.0-litre V8 used four valves per cylinder and double overhead camshafts on each bank, something that was hardly common in the early '90s.

Power was a stirring 190 kW with torque of 360 Nm, but more than that, the engine was smooth and sophisticated and so quiet you needed to check the tachometer at idle to make sure it was running."

Lets consider this scenario. When you hear ppl say "I got a v8 powered commodore" and u go "oh ok." but how about this..."I got a V8 powered Merc" the v8 moves up another level..dont u all think?

[Savant]

my vote would have to go to a big cruise ship like Pacific fair or pacific sun.

With a bore of probably a metre, i'd say that would produce better numbers than all engine's mentioned.

[Captiva_Blue]

my vote would have to go to a big cruise ship like Pacific fair or pacific sun.

With a bore of probably a metre, i'd say that would produce better numbers than all engine's mentioned.

LMAO!! :D But can I get 1 in a commodore? While we're in crazy town, how bout one of the 8 cylinder powerplants from a WWII fighter plane?

[EuroAccord13]

Any V8 that is not a Holden is a good enough V8 Engine to me.....

[J-MuN]

Any V8 that is not a Holden is a good enough V8 Engine to me.....
werd... mercs imo... :thumbsup:

[Captiva_Blue]

Just thought of another one.. the new v8 in the upcoming M3. Word on the street is that it another version of the modular V10 in the current M5 but with 2 pots lopped off the back.. if this is the case, it will make 298kw and 416Nm from 4 Litres. Otherwise, all the same fruit as the V10, DOHC, Aluminium/Silicon block (no need for cylinder liners..) and variable timing, all with a redline of 8000rpm. Nice.

[Captiva_Blue]

Oh, and all hail the V8 Hemi in the Chrysler 300C. It has 'Variable Displacement' as every big capacity engine should. It shuts down 2 or 4 cylinders when the demands on the engine are low to save fuel and cut emissions.. one of the few 8s to meet and exceed euro 4 emissions standards.

[Usual Suspect]

the new v8 hemi is in all the new aussie delivered jeeps also. Very very fast engines, they took the record for fastest mass production 4x4 by plonking in that 5.7L v8. And to top that they Chrysler are now about to plonk in an even bigger engine, 6.1L V8.

[hotgemini]

Let me start by saying that these threads are common across lots of forums and in my experience are completely random and stupid guesses based mostly on hearsay and marketting except in the rare instance of a well-informed engineer (eg. not me) stumbling in and giving real hard information. So back to the pointless guesses and hearsay, I'd like to put forward the cosworth DFV (and its successors) for excellent packaging, its leading power output for its time and for sheer racing pedigree, no other motor comes close.

[spetz]

Why do people say SL55 AMG engine?

I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE those cars and yes they make amazing power but how is it better than an M5 4.9L V8? Ok less power but it has no boost. Not to mention mercs have SOHC 3 valve engines. I am sure they are great but I pick BMW still

[T-onedc2]

To all you pushrod baggers... the LS2 is a cut down version of the LS7, and the vette has won best performance car years and years in a row... They are pushrod because they choose to be.

Look at fords DOHC, it ****s the weight balence (to high), it makes less power, and it weights more.. yeah big DOHC advantage...

Im not claiming the holden make the best v8 either... id probly go v8... that new Honda F1 engine i read theyd been testing ;)

You've gotta say who it's awarded by and I would bet on it being best American engine, but look at all the other crap they produce.
Oh and power per litre, small capacity high tech always wins, power and handling wise.

[T-onedc2]

Just thought of another one.. the new v8 in the upcoming M3. Word on the street is that it another version of the modular V10 in the current M5 but with 2 pots lopped off the back.. if this is the case, it will make 298kw and 416Nm from 4 Litres. Otherwise, all the same fruit as the V10, DOHC, Aluminium/Silicon block (no need for cylinder liners..) and variable timing, all with a redline of 8000rpm. Nice.
Now that's a logical choice, no cut corners or design compromises. There's a good reason why BMW won engine of the year with the V10. Wouldn't mind betting M3 V8 may follow suit. :D

[garett]

when it comes to v8s i think old school is where it started and its where it should stay... the push rod v8 is probably the oldest engine design ever.. and they try everything to make them like a twin cam 4 cylindar and only a few can pull it off


pure muscle the 351 cleveland, with a fat carb. its not rocket science but raw power.

[Captiva_Blue]

But does raw power make a good engine? I don't think it does.. any engine can make shitloads of power but what makes an engine great is whether it can make it using a minimum of fuel, if it is well packaged and if it is reliable. I would hazard a guess that the 351 was a rather thirsty engine, by today's standards, it isn't very well packaged and they're about as reliable as a weather forecast.. Many new V8s are amazing pieces of kit which shouldn't be dismissed as an attempt to turn old school into something like a twin cam 4... just my opinion.

[91'lude]

Awarded by who?

Road and track... they also gave the s2000 over the Z.

Link (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?article_id=1949&section_id=31&page_number=6)

No one can deny the corvette's genius, its a different philosphy to most japanese cars, but through 7.0L's of good power, and balence... for what it is, it turns out one awesome car.

[TODA AU]

HI5R
http://www.honda.co.jp/IRL/race2005/formation/engine/images/hi5r.jpg

[ProECU]

Adrian
do you by any chance have a pic of the exhaust turbo manifold for this engine?

[TODA AU]

Evan, it's actually NA... :rolleyes:
It's the current engine for the Indy Racing League (IRL)

I thik you're thinking of the 2002 Honda cart series engine. (It's turbocharged)
http://www.cartracingupdate.com/Cars/motor/hondamotor25.jpg

[T-onedc2]

After reading the link to Road & Track and various others, I find that the American system of judging a sports car is very much focussed on the ability to post 1 good lap time and not many laps consistently, with little or no regard to brake fade, tyre wear or fuel consumption. Now this is what wins races, consistency. If endurance was tested i believe the results would differ greatly, oh and seeing as these are Americas best why not test against the worlds best? Work smart not hard!
I strongly suggest getting your hands on a few Best Motoring DVD's and witness relevant sports car tests in minute detail.
I have my own criteria for purchasing a car compiled from comprehensive info and I choose to drive a Honda for reasons many here already understand.
I'm not here to argue, but to help educate. :thumbsup:

IMO this thread was looking for trouble and the whole (x or y) engine is best discussions are a waste of time. Educate yourself and draw your own conclusions and choose what suits you best.

Cheers :)

[urtwhistle]

hey all i can say is toyota 1us-fe plus blowere = shite loads of grunt plus the whole cheap as chips factor. i know wat i would choose

[ProECU]

Evan, it's actually NA... :rolleyes:
It's the current engine for the Indy Racing League (IRL)

I thik you're thinking of the 2002 Honda cart series engine. (It's turbocharged)
http://www.cartracingupdate.com/Cars/motor/hondamotor25.jpg
Yeah, my bad.

Would you have a picture of the CART turb manifold?
Im not sure if you've looked into exhaust manifold design theory at all, but the street honda manifolds available (from most of the "good" shops in the USA) have completely different designs to the formula racing designs.

I dont really want to go into to much depth about it here, but if you have a pic could you please email it to me?

Cheers

[zco]

http://www.redbook.com.au/vehiclesearch/Detail.asp?key=AUDI04DJ

station wagon or no station wagon, same engine.

V8 Engine. 40Valves. 5 per cylinder.
Twin Turbo intercooled
DOHC with VVT

0-100 4.7Seconds
560Nm @ 1950rpm
331kW @ 5700rpm
engine configuration V90
4172cc (4.2)
Four Wheel Drive
19" Alloy Wheels, 9 Speaker Stereo

weighs 1.8tonnes

[ginganggooly]

LS1 and LS2... small, light and lots of power does not a good engine make, not when it has 16 valves and 1 camshaft.. they're both pretty damned inefficient stonage machines imo.. If you're after something aussie with shitloads of torque, buy an FPV Tornado.. If you want power, there is a plethora of other machines out there that do the 300kw+ formula using less fuel and putting out fewer tailpipe nasties. I can't think that an engine with basic architechture dating back to the 1970's is a good engine.. Personally I would rather be able to brag about how much power my engine make AND how little fuel it does it with AND how hightech it is rather than just how much it makes.. thats just me..

actually, you're right- small light and powerful does not make a good engine *unless you're into performance

since you're labelling pushrod slappers as inefficient, i guess you are about to provide us with some figures to back that statement up. i've not yet seen anything which really shows that a modern pushrod motor creates more emissions and uses more fuel than an equally new ohc design.

the only valid argument that i can see against pushrod v8's is the issue they have with reciprocating mass, but they redeem themselves in terms of pakaging efficiency. imo.

i guess another key difference between us is that i'd much rather "brag" about how much power it makes and how fast it is, rather than how little fuel it uses and how sophisticated/complicated it is.

[Captiva_Blue]

I am aware that the comparison I am about to make is not direct but I believe that it illustrates my point about how pushrod engines, though powerful are innefficient next to a modern, high tech engine. Both engines serve the same intended purpose (making a goer of a family car) and from a litre less capacity, one makes a hefty 70 more kilowatts more than the other. That seems to indicate a lower level of efficiency to begin with..

HSV Clubsport R8 V8 6L Fuel Consumption - 15.2L/100km CO2 output - 362gm/km
BMW M5 V10 5L Fuel Consumtion - 14.8L/100km CO2 output - 357gm/km

now the difference here may not sound like a lot but consider this, each of these cars will do approximately 20000 - 25000km each year. That means that the "pushrod slapper" will use between 80 and 100 litres more fuel (about $120 worth) than the new high tech motor and put out between 100 and 125 KILOGRAMS more carbon dioxide.. all while having 2 pots fewer and making 70kw less.

To not give a toss about how your engine makes the power it does robs you (IMO) of a lot of the joy of having a car and to not give a toss about the impact your engine has on the environment (and your hip pocket) is downright irresponsible.

[T-onedc2]

I am aware that the comparison I am about to make is not direct but I believe that it illustrates my point about how pushrod engines, though powerful are innefficient next to a modern, high tech engine. Both engines serve the same intended purpose (making a goer of a family car) and from a litre less capacity, one makes a hefty 70 more kilowatts more than the other. That seems to indicate a lower level of efficiency to begin with..

HSV Clubsport R8 V8 6L Fuel Consumption - 15.2L/100km CO2 output - 362gm/km
BMW M5 V10 5L Fuel Consumtion - 14.8L/100km CO2 output - 357gm/km

now the difference here may not sound like a lot but consider this, each of these cars will do approximately 20000 - 25000km each year. That means that the "pushrod slapper" will use between 80 and 100 litres more fuel (about $120 worth) than the new high tech motor and put out between 100 and 125 KILOGRAMS more carbon dioxide.. all while having 2 pots fewer and making 70kw less.

To not give a toss about how your engine makes the power it does robs you (IMO) of a lot of the joy of having a car and to not give a toss about the impact your engine has on the environment (and your hip pocket) is downright irresponsible.

I agree, commonsense prevails, although not so common these days. :D

[ginganggooly]

HSV Clubsport R8 V8 6L Fuel Consumption - 15.2L/100km CO2 output - 362gm/km
BMW M5 V10 5L Fuel Consumtion - 14.8L/100km CO2 output - 357gm/km

now the difference here may not sound like a lot but consider this, each of these cars will do approximately 20000 - 25000km each year. That means that the "pushrod slapper" will use between 80 and 100 litres more fuel (about $120 worth) than the new high tech motor and put out between 100 and 125 KILOGRAMS more carbon dioxide.. all while having 2 pots fewer and making 70kw less.

To not give a toss about how your engine makes the power it does robs you (IMO) of a lot of the joy of having a car and to not give a toss about the impact your engine has on the environment (and your hip pocket) is downright irresponsible.

all that serves to illustrate is that the package in a $230k bmw is more efficient than that of a $70k r8. we are discussing engines here, over all consumption is a function of a multitude of variables, not just the motor. how about the fact that the ls2 in the commodore is bolted up to an unsophisticated transmission and is missing three whole ratios (4 speeds vs 7 speeds) yes, the m5 is a superior vehicle to an r8 in just about every concievable way, excluding performance for your money.

i'm in a rush atm, i will add more to this discussion as it's very interesting- this is to be continued...

[steve]

Well i thort i might get back 2 topic and post wot i think is the best 8 cyl engine in the world is....none of this bmw v10 crap:p

From on paper specs imo the ferrari f430 v8 would have to take out this

[Captiva_Blue]

all that serves to illustrate is that the package in a $230k bmw is more efficient than that of a $70k r8. we are discussing engines here, over all consumption is a function of a multitude of variables, not just the motor. how about the fact that the ls2 in the commodore is bolted up to an unsophisticated transmission and is missing three whole ratios (4 speeds vs 7 speeds) yes, the m5 is a superior vehicle to an r8 in just about every concievable way, excluding performance for your money.

i'm in a rush atm, i will add more to this discussion as it's very interesting- this is to be continued...

Cost is irrelevant here, this thread is about what 8 pot engine is the best, not what 8 pot engine is the best under 70k. You asked me for some figures backing up my contention that pushrod motors are less efficient than overhead cam designs.. I believe that I've done that. You asked for fuel consumption figures. I gave them to you. You asked for pollution figures. I gave them to you. And I found an engine, albeit one with 2 extra pots, that has a litre less capacity but makes 70kw more. If you are still not convinced that pushrod engines are less efficient than modern OHV designs, go and look anywhere in the motoring press and read what they say when comparing a pushrod donk to a newer OHV one.. they'll say the same thing. If thats still not enough, consider this, what engine design is most commonly used for high powered cars... the answer speaks for itself, pushrod just can't cut it for efficency, power or tunability next to a more modern design.

[ginganggooly]

Cost is irrelevant here, this thread is about what 8 pot engine is the best, not what 8 pot engine is the best under 70k. You asked me for some figures backing up my contention that pushrod motors are less efficient than overhead cam designs.. I believe that I've done that. You asked for fuel consumption figures. I gave them to you. You asked for pollution figures. I gave them to you. And I found an engine, albeit one with 2 extra pots, that has a litre less capacity but makes 70kw more. If you are still not convinced that pushrod engines are less efficient than modern OHV designs, go and look anywhere in the motoring press and read what they say when comparing a pushrod donk to a newer OHV one.. they'll say the same thing. If thats still not enough, consider this, what engine design is most commonly used for high powered cars... the answer speaks for itself, pushrod just can't cut it for efficency, power or tunability next to a more modern design.

cost is always a relevent issue; it's the only way you can compare motors with different states of tune, aimed at different markets, against eachother.
for this debate to be at all relevent, it needs to take more into account than just factory output and emissions levels. you've got things like production costs, output, potential output, output efficiency, packaging efficiency and mass. and thats assuming that we're talking in the context of performance motors.

well if you want to trivialise the discussion, i could very well write off the m5 as irrelevent seeing as it has a v10. you've gone and compared what represents the pinnacle of development of one motor and used it as a yardstick against what is essentially a run of the mill, mass produced motor. it takes a relatively small amount of work to hit very big numbers in an ls1, i'd imagine an ls2 to be much the same.
yes, i've read motoring press articles on the old pushrod vs ohc designs, and there is fierce debate there too, in fact if you haven't come across articles praising the packaging efficiency of pushrod v8's then you've been selectively reading press articles.

you've also missed the point of my last post, if we're talking motors, you can't compare the emissions of one vehicle against another the way you've done, and use that as proof of one motor being superior to another. those figures are for the cars, emissions can be immensly effected by the exhaust systems, intakes, mass, transmissions tuning and a horde of other little things. so your fuel/emissions figures are about as useful as a one legged man in an arse kicking contest- in the context of engine emissions alone anyway... the same argument can be levelled at power outputs aswell.

how much further can you push the older e39 v8 in the m5 for example?
how about the w210 e55 v8?
you'll find that the ls1 compares very favourably with those motors.

on a tangent, if it's ease of tuning and hitting big numbers you're after, i think you'll be hard pressed to find anything with more aftermarket support and development than the small block v8's from the states.

fwiw, if you want to preach about ignorance and a lack of responibility regarding emissions, you ought to be driving a prius, or other hybrid, or better yet, be using public transport. if you are into extracting performance out of motors, you're basically harming the environment for pleasure, whether you like it or not. that said, people should do what you can to minimise the impact e.g- run a catalytic convertor.

[Captiva_Blue]

So you want something more relevant. Ok.

Mercedes Benz E55 5.4L V8 Fuel Consumption - 13.1L/100Km CO2 - 314gm/km power - 350kw torque - 700Nm Weight - 1800kg
HSV Clubsport R8 6.0L V8 Fuel Consumption - 15.2L/100Km CO2 - 324gm/km power - 297 torque - 530Nm Weight - 1700kg

Now, the 5.4 in the MB has a hell of a lot of aftermarket support, look at Brabus, Kleemann and Koenig to name just a few and see how many off the shelf items they have for this engine. For costs, look at the cars in their home market. The E class occupies the same position in Germany as the HSV R8 does here in terms of both cost and target audience. The only reason an MB E55 costs so much here is that it is imported for the EU where the Euro shits all over our dollar and because it is marketed as a luxury car. Over there, they are family hacks and taxis. The E55 has only 1 more ratio in its gearbox - seems pretty well on par to me. Yes, the E55 is supercharged but that doesn't make the comparison irrelevant. It still makes more power and more torque while using less fuel and putting out fewer nasties. It's also a of a comparable physical size to the LS2 which is, by the way, the hand built pinicle of small block motors in the same way the the AMG 5.4L in the MB is.

And don't insult me by saying I'm preaching and telling me I should drive a prius or ride the bus, that makes you look dumb, not me. I'm looking at the concept of a good engine from all standpoints, not just from the hardcore tuner's standpoint. Why do you think the LS1 and LS2 have never won a gong from the annual Engine Of The Year awards, could it be because the judges are doing the same?

[ginganggooly]

from that pearler, i've established that you don't actually read what you're responding to. unless those figures were made on an engine dyno, they mean diddly squat in this discussion. one last time- car economy and efficiency testing has too many variables to give any conclusive evidence as to which motor is more or less efficient. let alone which one is better...

the engine of the year award is a big fuss over nothing. basically, a bunch of motoring hacks get together and vote on what they think constitutes the best of the new motors. sorry, but i find those sorts of awards very hard to take seriously. they're basically good for a read and show nothing of the potential and/or limitations of any of the motors. i guess it's fine as a guide for people interested in how things are when they leave the factory.

as for insults- people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. you can expect to recieve thinly veiled insults when you start pontificating about responsibilities towards emissions. if you hadn't implied that i am in some way irresponsible for having a soft spot for pushrod v8's, i'd never have pointed out that using your logic, you were irresponsible for not relying on public transport.

to think, all this started because i dared say that the ls1 and ls2 motors were actually good things. in fact, i'm not even trying to say that they're superior, to ohc designs, i'm just pointing out that they should not be written off as inferior when they do present some compelling advantages for v-configured motors.

edit-> i should probably add that i am talking about these motors as a building block for performance applications, although i think that was clear from the beginning. what that means is taking the basic unit, and giving someone a free reign with modification and applications... i'll never really be one to look at a motor "from all standpoints" as i find them in their factory state to be totally boring.

[monaroCountry]

Oh, and all hail the V8 Hemi in the Chrysler 300C. It has 'Variable Displacement' as every big capacity engine should. It shuts down 2 or 4 cylinders when the demands on the engine are low to save fuel and cut emissions.. one of the few 8s to meet and exceed euro 4 emissions standards.
Sorry to bring up old threads but the Hemi V8 engine in the Chrysler is not really a hemispherical engine.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0407_hemi_head_old_800.jpg
Half of an original Hemi cylinder head - note the dome-shaped chamber and relatively great depth.

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0407_hemi_head_new_800.jpg
5.7-liter Hemi Magnum V-8 cylinder head - nothing hemispherical about it. Note the irregular shape.

On another note Holden will introduce their new 6L pushrod V8 next year (gen 4 - which inculdes the LS2), this replaces the older gen 3 engines like the LS1. Base trim for the new holden engine would be 260kw and 510Nm. This engine would also have VVT and also DOD technology (Displacement on Demand). From what I heard this engine along with a new 6sp transmission would be over 7% more economical and also 7% more powerful than the outgoing model.

[Civic Type R]

German engineering vs Australian pushrod engineering.
I know which one i'd be putting my money on ;)

[monaroCountry]

The gen 4 engines i.e. ls2 found in holdens and HSV's are one of the best engines, I would not say the best. Ill just put in some pros:
1) light (about as light as an MX5 engine)
2) small and compact (again around the same size as an MX5 engine)
3) powerful ls2 are around 297kw stock
4) economical for the power and torque it produces
5) parts are widely and cheaply available
6) less parts than other engines
and 7) can be made cheaply - better for the consumers $$$$$$$$.

[Civic Type R]

sorry to burst your bubble.. but they are made cheaply as well.

[monaroCountry]

German engineering vs Australian pushrod engineering.
I know which one i'd be putting my money on
The germans are good at engines, no doubt about that.

However lets look at it from a buyers perspective:
aust cars are cheaper, more parts (performance or otherwise), more mechanics (better rates), reliable, comfortable and powerful.

Also do you know that Holden supplies engines to SAAB. Holden supplies their 2.8L engine delivering 250 horsepower at 5500 rpm and 258 lb-ft of torque from 1800 – 4500 rpm. This particular engine was also rated as one of the 10 best engines for 2006 (Wards Communications). Holden has also designed a word class chassis (Zeta or VE), look for the upcoming commodore. In addition Holden is now GM's centre of R&D for RWD medium to large cars as well as having the third largest design facility in GM (arguably one of the top 3 auto company in the world).

[Civic Type R]

I think you are biased and too emotionally attached with Holdens mate.

The original subject was entitle "Best V8 engine in the world"
As it was ironically posted by a Holden owner and driver, his intentions for posting such a thread could be considered ironic and possibly as light humour for our Honda community.

I have driven many Holdens, HSV's and alike and i recall a new Statesman we borrowed for a road trip from Canberra to Batemans Bay recently. The aircon garnishes fell off, some other interior cosmetics were loose and on one occasion, a bonet release lever snapped off in our hands. Yes this car was only a few months old and to me thats Holden. But this thread is about Engines - not car makes ;)

[[[d a n n y]]]

Holdens engine knowledge is not holdens knowledge

it's scooped from the yanks aka GM
Holden has improved alot compared to 10 years ago.
but still holden has alot to learn.
holden is up against big international manufacturers that supply there products to the world.
whilst holdens main makret is it's local market.

ls1,2,3,4's or what ever will be are good engines. but there are better engines out there.
so i think it is pretty useless to argue about it...

[monaroCountry]

sorry to burst your bubble.. but they are made cheaply as well.
Name me another engine that can easily handle over 6-700hp stock, that has as much development and ## running over 1000hp.

this is from another forum (a gto forum), from peter (aps) himself

You might be right about that though the drive train has proven to be more robust that first thought. Here's a power and torque graph of the LS2 twin turbo, hope you enjoy. Now at 530 WHP at 6.5 psi, more power to come in the near future. http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/ls1/ls2/530hp_power_t.gif
They were also using the stock tires and engine just to test its limits.

This number has since been surpassed their LS2 has now showen to be capable of a 10.29 @133 quarter mile and delivers 615RWHP or 460RWKW, just from the twin turbo.

Many guys in america (gto owners) and australia have both bored out engines and turbo kits on their cars producing way over 700hp.

OK have a look at the top drag cars in the world, many of those use the LSx engine i.e. vette, camaro, TA, GTO and basically all holden V8s. Also have a look at the fastest production cars around the nuremberg track in germany, one of those stands out from the rest (the Zo6 C6 corvette). Not only is the car one of the fastest but was also one of the few non racecar/supercar and one of the cheapest. The vette z06 uses the LS7 engine (prob used by the next HSV GTS) and stock form produces over 500hp and low 11sec quarter.

[[[d a n n y]]]

Get it right it's Chevy V8 not Holden V8

and theres more to a fast car than an engine

and also some of the best drag cars a 6 cylinders
and the best 8 is the toyota V8 twin turbo soarer

[monaroCountry]

I think you are biased and too emotionally attached with Holdens mate.
In some ways I am :) but im also very attached to my jap cars especially my 300zxTT.


ls1,2,3,4's or what ever will be are good engines. but there are better engines out there.
so i think it is pretty useless to argue about it...
I agree with you, they are up against larger companies with better exporting capabilities and some with even better engines and manufacturing procedures. However I dont agree with the common theme of Holdens = cr@p, low quality blah blah blah. Everyone has differing experiences with local products. Personally my ford and holden cars have been the more reliable (still running strong with my holden well over 500,000 km on the clock), while my nissans and toyotas (sold the toyota already but still have a soft spot) have required more maintainance.

Also note that holden now owns daewoo and have just started to design them (current cars are still daewoo). Have a look at the s3X, or as some people have called it, the sex car. The zeta platform holden designed will be used throughout the world and uses similar suspension to top BMW's.

[Civic Type R]

You are asking for an engine shutdown my friend.
If you want to talk built up V8 engines. Lets talk about Mugen Honda V8.

Seen here is the engine:
2.85l V8 DOHC
Over 770HP @ 13000rpm
Garrett Turbo.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/images/mugen_showroom/IMG_0464.jpg


Id like to see a 'Holden' engine rev past 10,000rpm :thumbsup:

[[[d a n n y]]]

i like holdens and fords i just dont like the biased idiots who drive it.
but you have quite a few things wrong that i'll like to point out

Holden is apart of the GM enterprise.
GM owns Daewoo now.
it is only marked holden now bcause holden is GM Oceania and what ever GM product gets sold in the Oceania region wears a holden badge
same with the vectra's astra's and barlina's

but as i said i do agree the GM V8's are a very cheap affordable V8
but puting them as holden (Australian Tech) is wrong

[bumography]

Audi Diesel V8 Twin TURBO!

800 miles on a full tank

[monaroCountry]

Holden is apart of the GM enterprise.
GM owns Daewoo now.
it is only marked holden now bcause holden is GM Oceania and what ever GM product gets sold in the Oceania region wears a holden badge
same with the vectra's astra's and barlina's

Lets make things a bit clearer Holden is a subsidiary of GM, making them 100% seperate from other GMNA subsidiary's i.e. chevy, pontiac etc. Holden is the major shareholder in Daewoo 40%, GM have also contributed a further 17%. This kind of arrangement is a bit wiered but you have to remember that although Holden is 100% owned by GM, both companies are run separately. Therefore I would say that Holden ownes Daewoo, since its Holden that bought the 40% of shares, not GM.

Think of it this way, GM NA is shedding subsidaries i.e. oldsmobile while holden is on an increase i.e. daewoo, new engine facility, new design facility and platforms.

Also I agree with you on the engine, the LSx is a GM corporate engine. I was simply making things easier for everyone.

[monaroCountry]

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/images/mugen_showroom/IMG_0464.jpg
Civic type R, the vette engine is not a racing only engine, its actually on a roadgoing car thats priced far less than any supercars, bmws or even MB. In my view having an effecient engine is not the one with the smallest displacement, but the one with the best L/100km. I also regard torque at low RPMs as better than torque at high RPMs. An engine that can achieve a higher RPM does not necessarily mean better.

Also guess which types of engines are prefered in drag racing applications (very very high hp).

[[[d a n n y]]]

Lets make things a bit clearer Holden is a subsidiary of GM, making them 100% seperate from other GMNA subsidiary's i.e. chevy, pontiac etc. Holden is the major shareholder in Daewoo 40%, GM have also contributed a further 17%. This kind of arrangement is a bit wiered but you have to remember that although Holden is 100% owned by GM, both companies are run separately. Therefore I would say that Holden ownes Daewoo, since its Holden that bought the 40% of shares, not GM.

Think of it this way, GM NA is shedding subsidaries i.e. oldsmobile while holden is on an increase i.e. daewoo, new engine facility, new design facility and platforms.

Also I agree with you on the engine, the LSx is a GM corporate engine. I was simply making things easier for everyone.

that's something new.
i didnt know holden bought the shares.
well anyways what ever the case maybe
i recon the best V8 in the world (sound wise) Ferrari V8

[spetz]

I don't think a holden engine can be considered good let alone best...

[monaroCountry]

I don't think a holden engine can be considered good let alone best...
In the words of pauline hanson "please explain" :):):)

[[[d a n n y]]]

i think it should be i dont think a holden engine can be considered the best let alone good ?

[ek4-guy]

hands down best v8 in the world is a Kieth Back Hemi

[ek4-guy]

an did soeone mention holden well they had a 6cyl 202 witch they tried to bring up to times in the vk commodore by putting injection on it big failure holden gave up making a 6cyl an commisioned buick to make them a v6 same with the v8s the 5ltr 308 an the odd strockers in the hsvs were the last holden motors ever built holden no longers makes motors

[Stabo]

errr did i say it had to be a honda?
omg not everything revolves around honda
...*smacks head*

When are people going to get through their heads that Holden are a total piece of **** company?

Honda is RACE BRED you wank, F1 is going to be V8's and Honda will DESTROY anything Holden could ever come up with. Not that F1 in their right mind would let a ****ty company like Holden anywhere near the pinicale of motor sport.

Honda have won F1, and Superbikes. Holden's idea of more power is: "errr derrr..need morree powerr...better make engine biggerrr! hand me a VB"

Go back to your depreciated pos VT commodore which is now worth $4K you stain.

/Rant
~Stabo

[monaroCountry]

holden motors ever built holden no longers makes motors
I suppose that new engine plant in melbourne isnt producing any engines?

[pillow]

I love it when people who drive jap cars bag Holdens. I used to do it till I actually drove one. They're not as bad as everyone says, sure they use older, pushrod technology but it works. Find me a honda that you can modify engine wise to make the same power and torque while staying na for the same money? That's right there isn't one. LS1's are the easiest motors to get power out of, sure they're in big heavy cars, but the ss commys I've driven hven't handled ike a boat as everyone says:rolleyes: It's the same deal with the ford motors, the new boss 260 and 290 are awesome motors, my brother's GT made 240kw at the wheels STOCK and a ****load of torque. Now I'm not bagging Honda, I still drive a civic with a b16 swap and there's an s2000 in the garage along side the adventra (ls1 powered). My next car will most likely be a Commodore purely for the fact I won't have to spend as much cash as I would have to get power out of the motor. Sure my Civic handles well but at the moment I want more off the line and at the lights:) Plus I love rwd and if you're into Honda's then you gotta pay a pretty penny to get into a rwd;) So to everyone bagging the LS1's 2's etc maybe you should look at the corvette's i the states, there's a reason why they're considered one of the ultimate sports cars;) If you want torque, don't look at a Honda unless it has a snail attatched to it lol;) A cammed V8 is an awesome experience to drive:)

[ek4-guy]

ha ha ive got a holden ive spent 40 gs on

[pillow]

40g on motor work or everything ie body interior etc? All I'm talking about is motor, any car is gonna cost heaps if mod the entire thing lol;)

[[[d a n n y]]]

and i've got a nissan

[ek4-guy]

spent that on the whole thing but my point was who doesnt know holdens ha ha next time your in sydney call into finagan automotive there you will see the holden i worked on for years the sony auto sound commodore V8 supercar oh yeah an tell him darryl says hi

[ek4-guy]

and also GM motors has given holden permision to reproduce even more of their v6 engines based on orders from the melbourne plant

[gnx1987]

When are people going to get through their heads that Holden are a total piece of **** company?

Honda is RACE BRED you wank, F1 is going to be V8's and Honda will DESTROY anything Holden could ever come up with. Not that F1 in their right mind would let a ****ty company like Holden anywhere near the pinicale of motor sport.

Honda have won F1, and Superbikes. Holden's idea of more power is: "errr derrr..need morree powerr...better make engine biggerrr! hand me a VB"

Go back to your depreciated pos VT commodore which is now worth $4K you stain.

/Rant
~Stabo

The only reason holden can't compete with honda is because honda's market is worldwide, and holden's is mostly local. Now I'm sure Holden would love to go worldwide but they probably can't afford to. If they tried to, their cars would probably have to be more expensive and they wouldn't be able to compete as far as value for money goes therefore sending them up s*** creek.

Anyway I reckon one of the best v8's ever invented is the LS7 in the new ZO6. 500 hp. 0-100 in 3.5 (.1 sec slower than an enzo and quicker than porsche carrera gt, merc slr, ford gt, ferrari f430, dodge viper etc) and it's cheaper than all of them.

[steve]

How did 'best v8 engine in the world' come to be best car with a v8 engine?

totally different:rolleyes:

[LVNIT]

Its funny to note how some of you associate holdens with the typical male booner, its pathetic that you can generalise so much. You would probably be the same to hate all ***onese because of a minority group...

Its funny how you all bag the LS1/LS2 when there are people running 11s without forced induction, that includes the happy gas aswell ;) Oh and why does the engine have to have OHC technology when its running on a proven formula that works..?

Not to say its the 'best' engine of course, because there is a lot of variables that need to be covered, as one can not determine the 'best' engine just because it revs to 13,000rpm or because it does 700klms on a full tank.

[aaronng]

One thing that Holden/GM engines have over other brands is that they can produce a powerful 5.7 or 6.0L V8 at a reasonable price. Nevermind pushrods, when you look at DOHC engines, show me a car with that DOHC V8 engine at a price of under AU$100,000. Holden is successful in bringing the V8 muscle car experience to families who can't afford an exotic and are not willing in driving a "traditional" muscle car which is not practical for everyday commute to pick the kids up.

[gnx1987]

How did 'best v8 engine in the world' come to be best car with a v8 engine?

totally different:rolleyes:

Allright forget the car thing but for the money it took for the engine to be built (excluding design, tooling, etc) it'd easily have the best dollar to hp ratio for the motors of those cars. I think it'd be interesting to find out which company does have the best dollar to hp ratio out of all the mass production motors out there. Funny if it went to the daihatsu .7 litre turbo donk.

[Jus-10]

My favourite V8 would have to be anything made by Ferrari....especially the F40 engine!

Apart from that one of my other faves is the upcoming Audi RS4 V8...4.2 litre with FSI putting out 310kw at 8250rpm with 430Nm of torque...BEAUTIFUL!

As for Holden V8s....nice engines really. There isn't the outright refinement of some of the euro or Jap V8s, but they do what they are built to do, and do it well! Drove a mates R8 clubsport recently and it kept me smiling

[Mr_will]

I reckon the LS2. 6.0 v8 300kw
what are you thoughts?


nothing produced by holden is worthy of such a title.

perhaps the f430 engine? or the c55amg

[Mr_will]

]']Get it right it's Chevy V8 not Holden V8

and theres more to a fast car than an engine

and also some of the best drag cars a 6 cylinders
and the best 8 is the toyota V8 twin turbo soarer


i would very much like to see this "v8 twin turbo soarer". There is a v8 soarer, and a twin turbo (6 cylinder) soarer, but there isnt a v8 twin turbo.
and that aside, simply saying its the best without any justification is rather stupid. what sets it apart from any other 8? it puts out around 190kw...wow. it has 32 valves...wow. next. :thumbdwn:

[sivic]

shouldnt this thread be in the lounge?

[sikmushtaq]

I would say the New Audi RS4 Engine, Revs to 8250, produces 309 KW and its only a 4.2 LITRE

[steve]

Allright forget the car thing but for the money it took for the engine to be built (excluding design, tooling, etc) it'd easily have the best dollar to hp ratio for the motors of those cars. I think it'd be interesting to find out which company does have the best dollar to hp ratio out of all the mass production motors out there. Funny if it went to the daihatsu .7 litre turbo donk.

Even then, it wouldn't be the best, simply best bang 4 your buck...
Which is what this thread has become, holden v8's are great value for money, but that is completly different to being the best...

[monaroCountry]

its also one of the lightest.......but its not about that
its also one of the most used (plenty of development)...........but its not about that
its also one of the most powerful (stock and modded)............but its not about that
its one of the cheapest..................but again its not about that
its one of the most effective.............but its not about that
it can be made to run many fuel types...........but again its not about that




so WHAT IS IT ABOUT THEN............is it about brand? Probably!!

[FunkyR]

Getting back to the point of the discussion... no, I dont think the LS2 is anywhere near the best V8 in the world.... Sure it's cheap for a huge displacement engine but whilst most other engine manufacturers are reducing the capacity of their engines and still making more power out of them, Holden seems to be increasing the size to achieve the same.... all about costs... and I'm sure the amount of R&D that goes into a LS2 is no where near alot of other smaller V8s.

[pillow]

Wow 6L is huge capacity? Damn here I was thinking a 514 ford block or a 572 gm v8 was big...

[JasonGilholme]

**** v8's. Give me a 4 banger any day.

[monaroCountry]

Getting back to the point of the discussion... no, I dont think the LS2 is anywhere near the best V8 in the world.... Sure it's cheap for a huge displacement engine but whilst most other engine manufacturers are reducing the capacity of their engines and still making more power out of them, Holden seems to be increasing the size to achieve the same.... all about costs... and I'm sure the amount of R&D that goes into a LS2 is no where near alot of other smaller V8s.
Again the displacement issue. FYI most manufacturers are actually increasing their displacement, the problem with OHC etc is that its very hard to increase displacement, OHV does not suffer from this problem to the same extent. As I said before displacement does not neccessarily mean bad L/100km, the LS series engine is actually very effecient.

Some manufacturers have gone to turbo or supercharging, these technologies are basically similar to increasing displacement i.e. more psi = more fuel. The problem with this is lag, something the bigger displacement doesnt suffer as much.

Have a look at some of the most powerful modded cars, many are skylines and cars using LSx engines (vette, camaro, TA, any holdens). Both these engines are one of the best, skylines for 6s and LS for 8s.

[spetz]

In the words of pauline hanson "please explain" :):):)


Well, I know these engines can make big power
But really... they are sh!t...
Pushrods? Geez we are in the 21st century!
Not only that, but poor head design, piston/conrod design, crank and how it is bolted is all inferior to anything else in the world more or less.
And do not tell me you haven't seen a new holden on the side of the road with it's bonnet up. Because I certainly have on numerous occassions.

They are simply unreliable, unsophisticated, primitive engines.
A friend had a fully worked, built supercharged 5.7L ute, and it still made less kw per litre than my car... when it wasn't even working properly with a stock engine! Fair enough he was only running 6psi and had pulley's for 12+ but this is an engine with about 30K spent on it

[Mashimaro]

noob question...but wtf is LS2?

Best 8 Cyl...BAR HONDA V8 engine (beats **** out of me its prodcution number is)

[pillow]

Well, I know these engines can make big power
But really... they are sh!t...
Pushrods? Geez we are in the 21st century!
Not only that, but poor head design, piston/conrod design, crank and how it is bolted is all inferior to anything else in the world more or less.
And do not tell me you haven't seen a new holden on the side of the road with it's bonnet up. Because I certainly have on numerous occassions.

They are simply unreliable, unsophisticated, primitive engines.
A friend had a fully worked, built supercharged 5.7L ute, and it still made less kw per litre than my car... when it wasn't even working properly with a stock engine! Fair enough he was only running 6psi and had pulley's for 12+ but this is an engine with about 30K spent on it

Geez who did the work for him? My brother's old AU XR8 pumped out around 350kw at the wheels with a basic vortech setup and had a ****load of torque. Nowhere near 30k was spent on that car. Fair enough your mates motor didn't make as many 'kw per litre', doesn't really mean ****, torque wins races, peak kw sells new cars;)

Fair enough they use old technology, but it works! Ever heard of Nathan Higgins down in Melbourne? If you have a problem with LS1 heads, have a chat to him and see the work he does;)

[pillow]

noob question...but wtf is LS2?


LS2 is the new v8's in the new range of HSV's etc, 6.0 litre ;)

[T-onedc2]

its also one of the lightest.......but its not about that
its also one of the most used (plenty of development)...........but its not about that
its also one of the most powerful (stock and modded)............but its not about that
its one of the cheapest..................but again its not about that
its one of the most effective.............but its not about that
it can be made to run many fuel types...........but again its not about that




so WHAT IS IT ABOUT THEN............is it about brand? Probably!!

The only reason LS1's & 2's are so powerful is directly related to capacity, that's all. Ever notice it's only the US (who build these engines) who see it as acceptable practise to substitute refinement and intelligent technology for cheap easy power by constantly increasing displacement to a none-the-wiser population. It's a pity many Australian's fall into the same category who say "it's the best because it's Australian" but is actually 100% USA export quality.

So what's it about then? Don't hide behind some immature "bigger is always better mentality", take a look around and you'll see Euro and Japanese engines including v8's are much "better".
In the end though it's all about money and LS engines are the most affordable.:)

[locote]

this arguement is pointless because there will always be ppl out there who will always say the LS2 is the greatest engine ever built, and that is because they are narrow minded holden loving **%$#@, but thats another thread!
point is even if this thread said "the best V8 in a aussie car" i think the BOSS motor would sh*t all over the LS2, but thats just my opinion, to me the BA GT feels a hell of a lot gruntier, smoother, and sounds 1000 times better than any other 'aussie' car ive driven.

[pillow]

I agree somewhat with the two above posts. I don't think the LS1 and LS2 are the best V8 motors in the world, but they are still a good motor. I'd pick probably the bmw v8's or some other european motor like the Audi. The reason the LS1 has so much support is because it is an affordable motor that has the ability to produc insane amounts of power and it's the same with all old school v8s ie big block hemi's, gm and fords. Look at MRMAD for example, Brodix alloy tall block, capacity of 441ci, twin turbo, 2000hp. How many new V8 motors do you see being modified besides the LS1? Not many, if any;) As for Japanese ' hi tech':rolleyes: V8's, aftermarket support? Manufacturer support? Hmmm don't think either exist much in Australia..

[aaronng]

noob question...but wtf is LS2?

Best 8 Cyl...BAR HONDA V8 engine (beats **** out of me its prodcution number is)
LS2 is the 6.0L V8 from GM used in the Corvette.

There is no more BAR. It's just Honda (YAY!!!). You still haven't seen if the engine will last 1 round of F1 racing. So how can you say it is the best?

[aaronng]

this arguement is pointless because there will always be ppl out there who will always say the LS2 is the greatest engine ever built, and that is because they are narrow minded holden loving **%$#@, but thats another thread!
point is even if this thread said "the best V8 in a aussie car" i think the BOSS motor would sh*t all over the LS2, but thats just my opinion, to me the BA GT feels a hell of a lot gruntier, smoother, and sounds 1000 times better than any other 'aussie' car ive driven.
Boss V8 is a good step in introducing newer technologies to large capacity V8s. But, did you notice that the redline of the Boss V8 is even lower than an LS1 pushrod V8? Even the Boss has only a 9.5:1 compression ratio compared to the Holden's 10.5:1. I'm not saying that the Boss is a bad engine. no way. It's making 500Nm out of 5.4L while LS1 is only making 470Nm out of a larger 5.7L. It is a good engine, but I'd prefer to see Ford trying to push the boundaries and take full advantage of DOHC like what Honda has done.

Unless you want to extract as much power as possible out of the engine, going DOHC with V8 with less than 100hp/L is an expensive effort on selling engines just because it uses DOHC (and hence give a market perception that it is newer and better). The power output of the Boss V8 is attainable using pushrods, while at the same time keeping the engine lighter, cheaper, less parasitic loss from the valvetrain and flatter to fit lower cars (LS1 does not need a bulge in the bonnet, but Boss V8 does).

[monaroCountry]

Well, I know these engines can make big power
But really... they are sh!t...
Pushrods? Geez we are in the 21st century!
Not only that, but poor head design, piston/conrod design, crank and how it is bolted is all inferior to anything else in the world more or less.
And do not tell me you haven't seen a new holden on the side of the road with it's bonnet up. Because I certainly have on numerous occassions.

They are simply unreliable, unsophisticated, primitive engines.
A friend had a fully worked, built supercharged 5.7L ute, and it still made less kw per litre than my car... when it wasn't even working properly with a stock engine! Fair enough he was only running 6psi and had pulley's for 12+ but this is an engine with about 30K spent on itOHV and OHC are both old designs (is does not make them worse). Some technologies are not worth the trouble, look at the many sacrifices you have to put up with having more complex engines. The LS engines have many positive features, that I have pointed out. So far many here have only put forward the arguement of displacement to power ratio.

As for bad head, conrod, crank and how its put together, tell me why how these engines can pull out massive hp along with excellent fuel economy (for the power)..........look at the bigger 6.0L engine being more effecient and environmentally friendly than the 5.7L.

The engine and tranny of top v8 holdens are actually very stout, holdens use a similar tranny to the vette and also the viper (both in the supercar class).

To answer another one of your questions yes I have seen plenty of holdens at the side of the road, however in their defence there are far more holdens out there that have huge hp and also running very high number of km's. In an equal ratio I have seen fan for jap and european cars on the side of the road, than I have holdens. I would put my trust in a holden when going out to the outback or over long distances than any toyota or nissans (this is coming from a current nissan x2 owner). My experiences with holdens have been possitive, im also guessing that many trust holdens reliability (since there are many people driving holdens).

Finally this kw per litre arguement is not a very good arguement, what is the point for it. Its power and/or fuel economy that im interested in. I do agree that smaller engines have their purposes in europe and also in japan, where they limit the capacities. However we are not europe or japan. Unlike europe america never guaged their economy on engine size but on the actual fuel consumed per # of miles, this in my view is a better indicator of effeciency.

[monaroCountry]

They are simply unreliable, unsophisticated, primitive engines.
A friend had a fully worked, built supercharged 5.7L ute, and it still made less kw per litre than my car... Ok let put it this way how easy is it to get 700hp RELIABLY out of your engine and get the same fuel economy (prior to mods i.e. STOCK) when driving in a sedate manner, with only 30k in the kitty litter..................my guess is not very easy if not impossible.

[monaroCountry]

this arguement is pointless because there will always be ppl out there who will always say the LS2 is the greatest engine ever built, and that is because they are narrow minded holden loving **%$#@, but thats another thread!Ive never said that LSx are the best engines, but they are befinately one of the best. Many here bag them for being pushrod or have the perception that they are low tech and cr@p, this I dont agree with. As for being narrow minded (hopefully it wasnt directed at me) because my current cars include 2 nissans, 1 ford and 1 holden. I love my nissan (especially my 300zxTT) but would not rate them as being more reliable than my trusty ford and holden. Dont get me wrong maintained properly nissans and jap cars run fine but when not maintained proplerly (or even maintained) I find holdens/ford to be more reliable.

With newer cars not the problem is not mechanical reliability its electrical/signal, this is one of the pitfalls of a complex engine. Just have a look at BMWs and MB's reliability especially when it comes to electical stuff..............not very good!!!!

[pillow]

Ok let put it this way how easy is it to get 700hp RELIABLY out of your engine and get the same fuel economy (prior to mods i.e. STOCK) when driving in a sedate manner, with only 30k in the kitty litter..................my guess is not very easy if not impossible.

Well said monaroCountry. Anyone who has driven a 500hp V8 will know how awesome it is. Bang for buck + reliable = V8;) Before everyone starts up with saying their not reliable, turbo a Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Anything and see how reliable it is for the cash you spend and th power it makes;) Just as a point of interest, I know people with all different kinds of cars ranging from na hondas to supercharged and turbo V8s and so far the cars that are the quickest for the least dollars, while still staying reliable with decent fuel comsumption, are the modded na v8s;) Mate of mine has an ss that does low 12s na, simple mods and has better fuel economy than my adventra (totally stock ls1) and probably even my civic lol

But anyway...back to the topic: Each to their own, some people like one thing, other like another:) I still can't figure out whty this topic was started on a Honda forum?

[locote]

YEAH why was this started in a HONDA forum.
i think 99% of ppl here wouldnt choose a commodore/falcon over a DC5 or S2000 even NSX.

RIGHT?????

since driving a HONDA i find it the most enjoyable car that i have owned.
having owned a falcon, commodore, 200sx i have to say my GSI would out handle them 3 easy and eat the falcon and commodore in a straight line.
not to mention its a hell of a lot better in fuel economy.

[aaronng]

For those who say pushrods are ancient and DOHC is the ONLY way, why don't your drop your dino-fuel burning lump of metal and go clean with new hydrogen/electric/compressed air engines? :D

Pushrods may be older, but they are not worse than DOHC. There are applications where pushrods are more suitable than DOHC.

[urtwhistle]

i said it once and i'll say it again, 1uz-fe 15years old quad cam 4l lexus v8.
6bolt mains and super over engineered with a meesly 190kw. these things will take 12psi of booste on stock internals and with changed to forged pistons and rods will safely make 1000hp ie thats y the supra boys are finaly waking up and changing out there 1jz and 2jz's for them these things are incredibly underated and cheap and all the ls1 baggers, just add booste to a ls1 and they turn into wild machines for a low low price.

after every thing tho, wats more important, awsome power or that un mistakeable old skool wild american burble of 351 clevland with big cams and holly 850 or soming simmilar.

[vteccoupe]

I reckon the LS2. 6.0 v8 300kw
what are you thoughts?

cheap wine comes in 6L! :D :D

[pillow]

i said it once and i'll say it again, 1uz-fe 15years old quad cam 4l lexus v8.
6bolt mains and super over engineered with a meesly 190kw. these things will take 12psi of booste on stock internals and with changed to forged pistons and rods will safely make 1000hp ie thats y the supra boys are finaly waking up and changing out there 1jz and 2jz's for them these things are incredibly underated and cheap and all the ls1 baggers, just add booste to a ls1 and they turn into wild machines for a low low price.

after every thing tho, wats more important, awsome power or that un mistakeable old skool wild american burble of 351 clevland with big cams and holly 850 or soming simmilar.

12psi and forgies to make 1000hp hey, wow I never knew it was so easy! Just messin with buddy;) I like the 1uz-fe motor, so smooth, so much potential, but I like the rumble of other 8's more lol.

And to all those saying GM V8's are pieces of ancient shit with old technology, I'll take an LT-5 from a Corvette ZR-1. Production motor, all aluminium block, cast iron main bearings supports cast in, built for high revs. 32 valve (4 valves per cylinder;) ) 5.7 litre DOHC V8, 72000rpm, 405hp. Released in 1990 (375hp model, 405hp version was released in 93). Gm had Lotus design the motor and it was built by Mercury Marine. Only about 7000 vehicles got this motor, I'd kill for one lol, there's a red lx Torana hatch in qld with one in it, stock with an exhaust it ran 12.9 down the quarter... @ 111mph..can you say low 12's?

[Malenic1981]

Hehehe
Holden muscle, it's just funny that some people are even typing LS2 or what ever number so close to the likes of engines that come out from BMW, Audi, Merc ect. It is different league, it's like comparing honda VTEC engines with Hyundai HVT engines.

For me 1/4mile times are not important, so big muscle car is out of my interest, but if I was ever gonna get a big 8 it would be German (BMW, Merc & Audi), I know that these are more expensive but what is the point of getting cheap 6.0l holden if the only good thing in the car is me :). Then again why go for big V8 if you can get a good 6 cyl with turbo that will be good for all type of racing as well as going to shoping, yes I am talking about GT-R, just look at this one done by XSPEED here in Perth.
This is just sick, it's good for drags, it's good for track racing and it's good for every day driving, plus very very reliable.
http://www.xspeed.com.au/imagess/secret/nissan/85/2.jpg
http://www.xspeed.com.au/imagess/secret/nissan/85/IMG_9652_edited.jpg
By the way my cuz works as car salesman for holden, few days ago he was driving brand new SS LD (it had headers, exhaust carbon air intake and chip, that's what he said), car was nice, very nice muscle sound, but he had a drag with one of my mates i S15 (exhaust, intercooler air intake) and my mate just blow him away from the lights and also when they did rolling start, so much for holden power.

[monaroCountry]

Holden muscle, it's just funny that some people are even typing LS2 or what ever number so close to the likes of engines that come out from BMW, Audi, Merc ect. It is different league, it's like comparing honda VTEC engines with Hyundai HVT engines.
Letc compare the top of the line BMW 5L V10 engine (found in the M5) to that of the LS7 found in the zo6 (and soon to be in the HSV GTS range).

BMW
5L
V10
500hp
7,750rpm
384 ft lb torque
520Nm @ 6,100rpm
VETTE
7L
V8
505hp
7,000rpm
475 ft lb torque
644Nm @ 4,800rpm

From the specs above I would say that GM's LS7 is a far superior engine to that of the award winning BMW engine. I would also guess that the GM engine would be far more reliable (less technology), cheaper to build and maintain, more fuel effecient and also lighter.


By the way my cuz works as car salesman for holden, few days ago he was driving brand new SS LD (it had headers, exhaust carbon air intake and chip, that's what he said), car was nice, very nice muscle sound, but he had a drag with one of my mates i S15 (exhaust, intercooler air intake) and my mate just blow him away from the lights and also when they did rolling start, so much for holden power.
In a turbo car it really depends on the state of tune and also how much boost your running. If you think that all holdens are easy beats then you havent seen the more powerful ones. Look at the holden forum (LS1), look at their quarter mile times and power levels, these engine are highly moddable. Its no wonder that americans love putting the LS engines into jap cars (300zx, mazdas etc).

[Malenic1981]

If Americans could make a good car and engine it would be sold all over the world and it would be popular everywhere, but because all they care for is 1/4 mile and big dissplacment they can't take on big power houses like BMW, Merc, Audi, Honda ect on global stage.

[pillow]

The new Vettes are ranked as one of the best cars in the world....why sell something good overseas when you can sell just as many and keep them for yourself....

[monaroCountry]

If Americans could make a good car and engine it would be sold all over the world and it would be popular everywhere, but because all they care for is 1/4 mile and big dissplacment they can't take on big power houses like BMW, Merc, Audi, Honda ect on global stage.
JUST TO PROVE YOU WRONG............here is the Nurburgring lap times. Near the top is the new 2005 corvette Z06 with an LS engine. Compared with the other cars in the list the vette is an excellent bargain. You also have to remember that the vette when driven sedately can get 28 or more miles per galon, which is excellent for any car especially for a 505hp one. So what was that about American cars/engine not being able to take on the world?

Nurburgring Lap times

6:55 - Radical SR8 – 2005
7:14 - Donkervoort D8 270 RS - 2005
7:15 - Edo Porsche 996 GT2 RS - 2005
7:18 - Donkervoort D8 RS - 2004
7:19 - Radical SR3 1500 Turbo - 2003
7:28 - Porsche Carrera GT - 2004
7:32 - Pagani Zonda F - 2005
7:32 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO - 2001
7:34 - Koenigsegg CCR - 2005
7:40 - Bugatti 16/4 Veyron - 2005
7:40 - Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren - 2004
7:41 - Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413hp - 2004
7:42 - Ford GT - 2005
7:42 - Mosler MT900S Photon - 2004
7:42 - Radical 1500 SR3 – 2003
7:42.9 - Corvette Z06 - 2005
7:43 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS - 2005
7:43 - TechArt Porsche GT Street - 2002
7:43 - Lamborghini Murcielago – 2002
7:44 - Pagani Zonda C12 S - 2002
7:45 - McLaren F1 – (the lap time is taken from a video available at pistonheads driven by the cars owner, not a proper factory driver).
7:46 - Jaguar XJ220 - 2000
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2 - 2001
7:47 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS - 2004
7:49 - Porsche 996 GT3 Cup - 1999
7:50 - BMW E46 M3 CSL - 2003
7:50 - Westfield Megabusa - 1999
7:52 - BMW M5 (E60) – date of test unkown.
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo – 2003
7:54 - Mercedes CLK DTM AMG - 2005
7:55 - Caterham R500 Superlight - 2000
7:56 - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale - 2004
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo - 2000
7:56 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 C5 – 2003
7:56.- Honda NSX-R - 2002
7:58 - Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI - 2005
7:59 - Chevrolet C6 Z51 –
7:59 - Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R - 1997
7:59.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi spec C prototype - 2004
8:03 - Aston Martin V8 Vantage - 2005
8:04 - Lamborghini Diablo GT - 2000
8:05 - Ferrari 575M - 2002
8:05 - Ruf CTR -
8:06 - Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG – 2002
8'06.59 - Impreza Sti spec C - 2002
8:07 - Ferrari 550 Maranello - 1998
8:09 - BMW M6 - 2005
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena - 1999
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV - 1997
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS - 1997
8:10 - Donkervoort D8 180R - 2001
8:10.75 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi Version III sedan - 1997
8:11 - Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX - 2005
8:11 - Porsche Cayman S - 2005
8:13 - BMW M5 E60 - 2004
8:13 - Lotus Esprit Sport 350 - 1999
8:13 - Dodge Viper SRT-10 – 2004
8:14 - Mercedes SL 65 AMG - 2005
8:15 - Alpina Roadster S - 2005
8:15 - Corvette C6 - 2005
8:15 - Ruf 911 CTR 2 -
8:16 - AC-Schnitzer M3 CLS II E36 - 1996
8:16 - AC-Schnitzer V8 Topster
8:16 - Aston Martin DB9 2004
8:17 - Aston Martin V12 Vanquish - 2003
8:18 - BMW Z8 - 2000
8:18 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition - 2003
8:18 - Ferrari F355 - 1996
8:18 - Maserati GranSport - 2004
8:20 - Audi RS6 - 2001
8:20 - BMW M3 E36 -
8:22 - BMW M3 E46 - 2000
8:22 - BMW M Coupe - 1998
8:22 - Mercedes-Benz C55 - 1999
8:22.38 - Nissan Skyline R32 GTR -
8:25 - Corvette Callaway C12 - 1999
8:26 - Nissan 350Z - 2003
8:28 - BMW M5 - 1999
8'28.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX - 1992
8:29 - Audi S4 4.2 Avant - 2003
8:31 - Cadillac STS-V - 2005,
8:32 - Lotus Exige - 2004
8:32 - BMW Z4 3.0 SMG - 2003
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S - 1999
8:32 - Volkswagen Golf R32 -
8:34 - Vauxhall VX220 Turbo - 2004
8:35 - BMW 130i – 2005
8:35 - BMW M3 SMG E36 - 1997
8:35 - Brabus-Mercedes Benz C V8 Sportcoupé - 2002
8:36 - Jaguar XKR Performance Kit - 2000
8:36 - Porsche Boxster - 2003
8:37 - Maserati 3200GT - 2002
8:38 - Renault Megane Sport Trophy - 2005
8:38 - Porsche 996 Carrera -
8:39 - Morgan Aero 8 - 2004
8:40 - Holden GTS - 2000
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette C5 automatic - 1999
8:41 - Aston Martin DB7 - 1999
8:41 - Audi S3 - 1999
8:42 - Audi TT 1.8 quattro - 2000
8:42 - Audi S4 - 1998
8:43 - Honda Integra Type R - 2000
8:47 - Honda Civic Type-R - 2001
8:49 - Renault Clio Sport V6 - 2001
8:51 - Alfa Romeo 156 GTA - 2002
8:51 - Ford Focus ST - 2005
8:54 - VW Golf GTI 25th Anniversary - 2002
8:55 - Mini Cooper S Works - 2004
8:58 - Lotus Esprit Turbo SE - 1997
9:05 - Ford Focus RS - 2005
9:07 - Mercedes SLK 230 - 2001
9:07 - AMG Mercedes SLK 230 - 1999
9:09 - VW Golf V6 4Motion – 2002
9:57.7 – Alfa Romeo 1600 GTA - 1966

[monaroCountry]

The C6 Z06 above ran on street tires..........................
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/1384471d.jpg

[steve]

JUST TO PROVE YOU WRONG............here is the Nurburgring lap times. Near the top is the new 2005 corvette Z06 with an LS engine. Compared with the other cars in the list the vette is an excellent bargain. You also have to remember that the vette when driven sedately can get 28 or more miles per galon, which is excellent for any car especially for a 505hp one. So what was that about American cars/engine not being able to take on the world?

Nurburgring Lap times

6:55 - Radical SR8 – 2005
7:14 - Donkervoort D8 270 RS - 2005
7:15 - Edo Porsche 996 GT2 RS - 2005
7:18 - Donkervoort D8 RS - 2004
7:19 - Radical SR3 1500 Turbo - 2003
7:28 - Porsche Carrera GT - 2004
7:32 - Pagani Zonda F - 2005
7:32 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO - 2001
7:34 - Koenigsegg CCR - 2005
7:40 - Bugatti 16/4 Veyron - 2005
7:40 - Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren - 2004
7:41 - Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413hp - 2004
7:42 - Ford GT - 2005
7:42 - Mosler MT900S Photon - 2004
7:42 - Radical 1500 SR3 – 2003
7:42.9 - Corvette Z06 - 2005
7:43 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS - 2005
7:43 - TechArt Porsche GT Street - 2002
7:43 - Lamborghini Murcielago – 2002
7:44 - Pagani Zonda C12 S - 2002
7:45 - McLaren F1 – (the lap time is taken from a video available at pistonheads driven by the cars owner, not a proper factory driver).
7:46 - Jaguar XJ220 - 2000
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2 - 2001
7:47 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS - 2004
7:49 - Porsche 996 GT3 Cup - 1999
7:50 - BMW E46 M3 CSL - 2003
7:50 - Westfield Megabusa - 1999
7:52 - BMW M5 (E60) – date of test unkown.
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo – 2003
7:54 - Mercedes CLK DTM AMG - 2005
7:55 - Caterham R500 Superlight - 2000
7:56 - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale - 2004
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo - 2000
7:56 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 C5 – 2003
7:56.- Honda NSX-R - 2002
7:58 - Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI - 2005
7:59 - Chevrolet C6 Z51 –
7:59 - Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R - 1997
7:59.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi spec C prototype - 2004
8:03 - Aston Martin V8 Vantage - 2005
8:04 - Lamborghini Diablo GT - 2000
8:05 - Ferrari 575M - 2002
8:05 - Ruf CTR -
8:06 - Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG – 2002
8'06.59 - Impreza Sti spec C - 2002
8:07 - Ferrari 550 Maranello - 1998
8:09 - BMW M6 - 2005
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena - 1999
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV - 1997
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS - 1997
8:10 - Donkervoort D8 180R - 2001
8:10.75 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi Version III sedan - 1997
8:11 - Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX - 2005
8:11 - Porsche Cayman S - 2005
8:13 - BMW M5 E60 - 2004
8:13 - Lotus Esprit Sport 350 - 1999
8:13 - Dodge Viper SRT-10 – 2004
8:14 - Mercedes SL 65 AMG - 2005
8:15 - Alpina Roadster S - 2005
8:15 - Corvette C6 - 2005
8:15 - Ruf 911 CTR 2 -
8:16 - AC-Schnitzer M3 CLS II E36 - 1996
8:16 - AC-Schnitzer V8 Topster
8:16 - Aston Martin DB9 2004
8:17 - Aston Martin V12 Vanquish - 2003
8:18 - BMW Z8 - 2000
8:18 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition - 2003
8:18 - Ferrari F355 - 1996
8:18 - Maserati GranSport - 2004
8:20 - Audi RS6 - 2001
8:20 - BMW M3 E36 -
8:22 - BMW M3 E46 - 2000
8:22 - BMW M Coupe - 1998
8:22 - Mercedes-Benz C55 - 1999
8:22.38 - Nissan Skyline R32 GTR -
8:25 - Corvette Callaway C12 - 1999
8:26 - Nissan 350Z - 2003
8:28 - BMW M5 - 1999
8'28.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX - 1992
8:29 - Audi S4 4.2 Avant - 2003
8:31 - Cadillac STS-V - 2005,
8:32 - Lotus Exige - 2004
8:32 - BMW Z4 3.0 SMG - 2003
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S - 1999
8:32 - Volkswagen Golf R32 -
8:34 - Vauxhall VX220 Turbo - 2004
8:35 - BMW 130i – 2005
8:35 - BMW M3 SMG E36 - 1997
8:35 - Brabus-Mercedes Benz C V8 Sportcoupé - 2002
8:36 - Jaguar XKR Performance Kit - 2000
8:36 - Porsche Boxster - 2003
8:37 - Maserati 3200GT - 2002
8:38 - Renault Megane Sport Trophy - 2005
8:38 - Porsche 996 Carrera -
8:39 - Morgan Aero 8 - 2004
8:40 - Holden GTS - 2000
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette C5 automatic - 1999
8:41 - Aston Martin DB7 - 1999
8:41 - Audi S3 - 1999
8:42 - Audi TT 1.8 quattro - 2000
8:42 - Audi S4 - 1998
8:43 - Honda Integra Type R - 2000
8:47 - Honda Civic Type-R - 2001
8:49 - Renault Clio Sport V6 - 2001
8:51 - Alfa Romeo 156 GTA - 2002
8:51 - Ford Focus ST - 2005
8:54 - VW Golf GTI 25th Anniversary - 2002
8:55 - Mini Cooper S Works - 2004
8:58 - Lotus Esprit Turbo SE - 1997
9:05 - Ford Focus RS - 2005
9:07 - Mercedes SLK 230 - 2001
9:07 - AMG Mercedes SLK 230 - 1999
9:09 - VW Golf V6 4Motion – 2002
9:57.7 – Alfa Romeo 1600 GTA - 1966


i doubt conditions/driver were same on all occasions... hardly relevant

And once again i say comparing engines is not comparing cars.... GET IT?
I'm sure a nsx with a ls2 in it would be quicker than corvette...
Congrats to GM for producing such a well balanced/ great value car (they've only had 60yrs or so to do it:rolleyes: ...) but to say its engine is 'THE BEST IN THE WORLD'?

To find out what engine would win you would need a control car, and, one by one test each engine in it, in real world conditions, until then no1 will kno...

[monaroCountry]

Ive never stated that it was the bet engine!!!!!!!!! However I disagree with people saying that pushrod and LS engines are garbage. Ive proven several times in my posts that you can extract plenty of power and torque from pushrod engines. I have also stated that these engines are reliable, cheap to produce and maintain, light and fuel effecient.

So far no one has produced any specs of other engines that would challenge this. Im sure that there are better and more powerful engines out there but as a package the LS engines are hard to beat.

My two posts above is a direct reply to Melanic1981's post (#128), which questions americas ability to compete with the world on challenging circuts (non 1/4 mile).

Look at my post above (#127), where I compared the award winning BMW M5 engine to that of the LS7. The power figures for both were/are not at the weels but fly, not only was the ls engine more powerful with more usable torque but is also cheaper than the super exotic M5 engine. Yet because of peoples perception that anything pushrod = ancient and cr@p the LS engine never recieved its bue acolades. Racers, dragers on other high performance guys on the other hand all agree that its a great engine.

[[[d a n n y]]]

jeeez monarocountry

dude your still going on ?? lol

[Malenic1981]

That list doesn't prove anything, I can still see more M3, EVOs, STIs an 911s than any other original american sports car. Same thing is in rest of asia and europe, so globaly USA made su#ks

[monaroCountry]

Think about the location of the track. Many european manufacturers would call it their home, same as holden calling lang lang proving grounds their test track and bowling green (?) for the vettes its test track.

Other american cars that made it into that list include:
7:42 - Ford GT - 2005
7:42 - Mosler MT900S Photon - 2004
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS - 1997

All these cars have a very rich history, far richer than the almost mythical japanese brands. Take for example the ford GT, the original was designed to beat ferraris in europe. This was after Ferrari (in financial troubles) refused Fords offer, which would have made Ferrari a ford brand. The GT did this successfully beating ferrari and all other cars convincingly several years in a row (24hr races).

[monaroCountry]

For one country america have produced many cars, and sportcars. I would say that america has produced far more worthwile supercars than Japan (no I dont regard the GTR, 300zx or supra a supercar; even the NSX is at best a borederline supercar (IMO only)).

Just to give you some examples of american sportcars.

AC Cobra (all)
Panoz Esperante GTLM
Cadillac CTS-V Racer (CTS-V is aimed at BMW)
Cunningham C7
Fisker
Ford Mustangs
Shelby Cobra
Ford Cosworth
Saleen S7 Twin Turbo
SSC Aero SC/8T (this cars extreemly amazing 1234kg and 908bhp/1045Nm designed to beat the F1's speed record of 240mph)
Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZO6
Chevrolet Camaro Z28
Chevrolet Corvette C5-R
Dodge Viper
Dodge Charger SRT-8
Chrysler ME Four-Twelve

These cars are americans, I havent included american subsidaries in europe and asia.

[ginganggooly]

gotta love this thread...

the pushrod design actually has some very worthwhile packaging advantages over the ohc designs in V-configuration motors. there was a picture floating around a while back showing a LT1 v8 next to some ohc mustang motor, the small block looked around 30% smaller. what they may lack in efficiancy, they make up for in compactness. in summary, light weight and high output equals good platform imo.

[aaronng]

For one country america have produced many cars, and sportcars. I would say that america has produced far more worthwile supercars than Japan (no I dont regard the GTR, 300zx or supra a supercar; even the NSX is at best a borederline supercar (IMO only)).

Just to give you some examples of american sportcars.

AC Cobra (all)
Panoz Esperante GTLM
Cadillac CTS-V Racer (CTS-V is aimed at BMW)
Cunningham C7
Fisker
Ford Mustangs
Shelby Cobra
Ford Cosworth
Saleen S7 Twin Turbo
SSC Aero SC/8T (this cars extreemly amazing 1234kg and 908bhp/1045Nm designed to beat the F1's speed record of 240mph)
Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZO6
Chevrolet Camaro Z28
Chevrolet Corvette C5-R
Dodge Viper
Dodge Charger SRT-8
Chrysler ME Four-Twelve

These cars are americans, I havent included american subsidaries in europe and asia.
LOL, what makes these cars supercars are the chassis and CF shell over them. Look at the S7. If you take off the body and chassis, it's a pretty normal engine. Those are nice cars, but they don't seal in the Best Engine winner. Even the Viper. The engine is 1/2 a truck engine block. How can that be the best? I think you cannot determine best based on an overall standing. You have to have categories to define the best, otherwise there will never be an agreement.

My categories:
Best power output per litre
Best fuel effeciency
Best price
Best drivability
Best size
Best durability

Then it is easier to determine which is the best. And I'd put in the LS series under best fuel effeciency, price and size.

[monaroCountry]

My categories:
Best power output per litre
Best fuel effeciency
Best price
Best drivability
Best size
Best durability
Ok I agree that its very difficult for one engine to have all those categories. However you must also admit that the LS engines are a) efficient b) less costly c) a great price especially when compared with engines of similar power (near unbeatable actually) d) drivability of an engine??? Well torque throughout the rev range = better control e) its very small and light (the LS engines have been put in many different cars i.e. MX5, 300zx, RX7, 240z etc) and f) durable (able to handle major power reliably).

Again I question the worth of “power output per litre”. A smaller engine would need to work harder and in under a lot more stress than an engine of larger capacity. PROOF? travel at 100kph on a 5.7 or 6.0 v8 and your rev would most likely be just above 1300rpm (basically idling), try doing this on a 1.5L car.

For that reason engine sizes for performance cars have gradually increased. The problem with SOHC and DOHC etc is that its very difficult to increase displacement.

Also do smaller engines = better fuel economy, more reliable, and lower production cost, given the same power output? From all indications I would say NO. Take for example the legendary rotary which is very small- very thirsty and more prone to failures. For a small engine to match a larger engine, they would (usually) need some form of forced induction like turbo or a supercharger; or have a higher state of tune.

As for deriding the viper for its truck engine block…………..that’s really funny. Many performance enthusiasts actually love using truck engine blocks. Those things are usually built to withstand extreme conditions and in most cases withstand greater power increases. Even the 300zxTT has a truck based transmission (from the Nissan Patrol), and is regarded by many as a very sturdy unit.

[aaronng]

Ok I agree that its very difficult for one engine to have all those categories. However you must also admit that the LS engines are a) efficient b) less costly c) a great price especially when compared with engines of similar power (near unbeatable actually) d) drivability of an engine??? Well torque throughout the rev range = better control e) its very small and light (the LS engines have been put in many different cars i.e. MX5, 300zx, RX7, 240z etc) and f) durable (able to handle major power reliably).
Yup, I agree the LS series is the best in those categories. I like the LS series because it brings the V8 experience to those who cannot afford to splurge over $100,000 on a car. Of course, for now I don't need V8 because of petrol costs, but next time when I have money to spare, I might pick one up for the experience.



Again I question the worth of “power output per litre”. A smaller engine would need to work harder and in under a lot more stress than an engine of larger capacity. PROOF? travel at 100kph on a 5.7 or 6.0 v8 and your rev would most likely be just above 1300rpm (basically idling), try doing this on a 1.5L car.
Power output per litre is like bragging rights. You could say it is the snobbish factor. Isn't it nice to boast that your engine has over 100hp/litre? :) Just like saying you have a Ferrari just for the brand name.

If you are comparing 100km/h speeds, then it doesn't matter. At anywhere below 4000rpm, modern engines can survive that and well exceed the lifetime of the chassis it is in (i.e., if you only stay at 4000rpm, your chassis will rust before your engine will fail). But if you are extracting peak power all the time when you drive at 7000rpm, of course it will fail quicker than if you drive around at 5000rpm. It's not a linear relationship.



For that reason engine sizes for performance cars have gradually increased. The problem with SOHC and DOHC etc is that its very difficult to increase displacement.
You can, just that not many car manufacturers have bothered doing a large V8. It's similar to a DOHC V6 setup where you have 4 camshafts and duplicated valvetrain on each bank. BMW has their 4.0L V8, Mercs and Lexus/Toyota too. It's just that the market for cars with these kinds of engines are way up in the affluent range. If I had to pick between a 530i V6 and 540i V8, I'd go for the 530i because I don't need the V8. But for those with money to spare and status to hunt, then they'd go for the 540i. This brings us back to the LS being good because they bring V8 to those who can't afford expensive cars.

But yes, pushrods only need 1 camshaft and all valve control is transferred through the use of pushrods. Quite an elegant method of controlling a V8 with mechanical simplicity, I'd say.



Also do smaller engines = better fuel economy, more reliable, and lower production cost, given the same power output? From all indications I would say NO. Take for example the legendary rotary which is very small- very thirsty and more prone to failures. For a small engine to match a larger engine, they would (usually) need some form of forced induction like turbo or a supercharger; or have a higher state of tune.
You cannot compare a rotary with a 4-stroke piston engine. Totally different concepts. It's like comparing your internal combustion engine to that of a fuel-cell electrical engine. They are both engines but work differently. If you compare a toyota/honda 1.8L Inline-4 to the LS1 5.7L V8, of course the smaller one is going to consume less fuel in normal driving. Of course, if you give full throttle all the time, then they consume more fuel. The B18C7 consumes about 40 L/100km when on Tsukuba. That's more than the LS1 under normal driving conditions. Do you know of anyone who measured the LS1's fuel consumption when on the track? It would be interesting to compare figures.



As for deriding the viper for its truck engine block…………..that’s really funny. Many performance enthusiasts actually love using truck engine blocks. Those things are usually built to withstand extreme conditions and in most cases withstand greater power increases. Even the 300zxTT has a truck based transmission (from the Nissan Patrol), and is regarded by many as a very sturdy unit.
Nope, not deriding the viper. I was just using it as an example that if there was only an overall best V8 category, then engines which are derived using older technolgies have difficulty winning. BTW, the Viper has a V10. ;)

And transmissions are a different matter. They come from different manufacturers. And from your example, does the 300ZX TT have the low range gears that the Patrol has?

[muli]

audi RS6, if you never heard one of these track one down and somehow manage to drive it or get a ride

[aaronng]

audi RS6, if you never heard one of these track one down and somehow manage to drive it or get a ride
Let me find my spare $200,000 first. I think I left it next to my box of minties. ;)

[monaroCountry]

Let me find my spare $200,000 first. I think I left it next to my box of minties.

Hey ive got a spare 200K...............:):):).

[Malenic1981]

At the start of this topic there was no say about costs of the engine, just what is the best 8 cyl engine and LS is not the one for sure

[aaronng]

Hey ive got a spare 200K...............:):):).
Damn that's nice.... enough for 1/2 an apartment. :)

Oh yeah, and another reason why LS1 is not the shit that others think it is. With 200k, you have to decide if it is better to put it into property or buy the car. With an SV8, all you need is to set aside $50k for the car and 150k can go into property. :)

[monaroCountry]

At the start of this topic there was no say about costs of the engine, just what is the best 8 cyl engine and LS is not the one for sure
So just what is the best engine in your opinion?

Oh yeah, and another reason why LS1 is not the shit that others think it is. With 200k, you have to decide if it is better to put it into property or buy the car. With an SV8, all you need is to set aside $50k for the car and 150k can go into property.
200K could already get ya a 2 bedroom apartment with 1 bathroom. Just stay away from inner sydney :). Look I love cars, all different ones, but having a 200k engine is well outside my price range. I would rather put my money on an apartment or even petrol than buying the best super duper fancy high tech engine. At the end of the day I want to actually drive the car, have fun with it and go home to sleep.

[[[d a n n y]]]

So just what is the best engine in your opinion?

200K could already get ya a 2 bedroom apartment with 1 bathroom. Just stay away from inner sydney :). Look I love cars, all different ones, but having a 200k engine is well outside my price range. I would rather put my money on an apartment or even petrol than buying the best super duper fancy high tech engine. At the end of the day I want to actually drive the car, have fun with it and go home to sleep.

yeah

then buy a GTR :D

it'll do all the things rip a LS V8 and eat less petrol than a LS V8

[pillow]

]']yeah

then buy a GTR :D

it'll do all the things rip a LS V8 and eat less petrol than a LS V8

Apples and Oranges;) RB26DETT vs LS1 is a totally different kettle of fish. I know which one I'd choose, more support in Australia, massive aftermarket support and no need for one or two turbo;) I'd still have a GTR in the garage for the weekends :) Also you'd be surprised how much petrol a modded LS1 eats, it's less than factory models;) LS1Edit:thumbsup:

[monaroCountry]

yeah

then buy a GTR

it'll do all the things rip a LS V8 and eat less petrol than a LS V8
LS1 powered cars have topped the 1/4 times even against the mighty RB engine.

I agree with pillow!!!! As with any cars you can greatly lessen fuel consumption with an edit (its not only for power), this applies greatly with your LS1.

There are also several twin turbo options available for the LS1 that would make an already potent motor go ballistic. Even without the use of forced induction an LS1 (NA)is still capable of a 9 sec quarter mile, something an RB26DETT could never achieve.

[[[d a n n y]]]

hm..okay fine..

but how much does a LS1 do on a full tank??

my car with tuned map settings i did a full tank run from sydney to the snowys

but still V8 isnt my style

i love to rev my car to 9K rpm.

[aaronng]

200K could already get ya a 2 bedroom apartment with 1 bathroom. Just stay away from inner sydney :). Look I love cars, all different ones, but having a 200k engine is well outside my price range. I would rather put my money on an apartment or even petrol than buying the best super duper fancy high tech engine. At the end of the day I want to actually drive the car, have fun with it and go home to sleep.
:thumbsup: Yup, and to those who say that you can sleep in a car but not drive a house, try applying for a job when your address is "Red Ferrari FER35D, off Elizabeth Street Sydney NSW 2000". :D

[aaronng]

]']yeah

then buy a GTR :D

it'll do all the things rip a LS V8 and eat less petrol than a LS V8
It's an Inline 6, not V8. And if it was a GTR, it would use more petrol than a stock LS1!

From reviews, I've seen VYII SS doing about 17L/100km city. Pure highway should be 12L/100km then?

[locote]

17L/100km is exelent!!!!!
(yeah right)
the LS1 isnt the only engine that gets good power and fuel economy from tuning!
my S15 was running 12s very mild tuning 600ks out of a 60lt tank, 300hp, over 500nm of torque out of a 2lt.
i used to beat my mates boosted vxss.
he claimed to have 500hp before he got CHOPPED.

[aaronng]

17L/100km is exelent!!!!!
(yeah right)
the LS1 isnt the only engine that gets good power and fuel economy from tuning!
my S15 was running 12s very mild tuning 600ks out of a 60lt tank, 300hp, over 500nm of torque out of a 2lt.
i used to beat my mates boosted vxss.
he claimed to have 500hp before he got CHOPPED.
At what RPM did boost come on in your S15? 600ks from city or freeway? If city, that's good.

[locote]

turbo was boosting from 1000rpm +
full boost by 2500rpm
600ks driving to and from work.
i had a 4lt EL falcon before my S15 and that used 450ks out of a 80lt tank

[monaroCountry]

17L/100km is exelent!!!!!
(yeah right)
the LS1 isnt the only engine that gets good power and fuel economy from tuning!
my S15 was running 12s very mild tuning 600ks out of a 60lt tank, 300hp, over 500nm of torque out of a 2lt.
i used to beat my mates boosted vxss.
he claimed to have 500hp before he got CHOPPED.

A 400hp LS2 monaro can get over 500km per full tank.

As for beating the SS, your main advantage is weight. Try running him (the SS) with several very large friends stuffed strategically over the car.

LS1's have been known to run deep 6 sec quarter mile, theres even a LS1 in australia running very low 7 secs. Whats the fastest time for an s15 (or even a mighty GTR)? The fastest NA LS1 have even achieved a time of low 9 sec again whats the fastest NA nissan or honda?

Theres plenty of very potent cars (LS1) running around the country. Hell even a lightly moddend (tune, exhaust and cold air) LS1 can achieve that time (high stall to cement it). If I wanted to achieve that time (or even s15) I would have to folk out far far more money on mods. Even getting 300rkw is not an easy task, and mine comes in at 206kw fly stock.

[locote]

i only spent 4gs on performance mods on S15 to get 300rwhp.
Y would i wanna race with mates in the car?????????????
that is the stupidist thing any one would!
when you got to the track either 1/4 mile or to do laps.
Would you have several large mates in the car????
yeah i thought so!!!!!
car + driver vs car + driver he got eaten as so many other LS1's here in perth that tried to have a go, either of the lights or freeway.
The S15 has way more potential than any commodore!!!!!!
all that my needed for 400rwhp + was a bigger turbo and bigger injectors thats a another 3000.
thats a high 10sec car

[pillow]

[QUOTE=monaroCountry]A 400hp LS2 monaro can get over 500km per full tank.

As for beating the SS, your main advantage is weight. Try running him (the SS) with several very large friends stuffed strategically over the car.

LS1's have been known to run deep 6 sec quarter mile, theres even a LS1 in australia running very low 7 secs. Whats the fastest time for an s15 (or even a mighty GTR)? The fastest NA LS1 have even achieved a time of low 9 sec again whats the fastest NA nissan or honda?
[QUOTE]

A mate of mine's VT SS runs low 12's wth a little over 330hp at the wheels, full interior, everything - and it gets around 12L/100km around town. From the factory Holdens (and most cars) are tuned to run extremely rich. My Adventra does well if it gets 16.5-17L/100km - and it's a stock LS1 pulling a massive 2 tonnes and is AWD.

And on a side note - the fastest N/A LS1 in AUstralia runs 9s AND is engineered and street legal. I'd like to see a GTR, S15, Supra, Honda anything do that.;)

This thread is really going nowhere lol as it has just become a V8 bashing thread as it alway would have on a HONDA forum lol. Do people hate V8's like the LS1 because for the same money they spent on their Civic or Integra they could have had a low 12 or high 11 sec SS or similar, without boost? I know it;s the reason I'll go to a V8 lol. Oh and by the way, no offence to Civic and Interga owners, I drive a Civic and have spent shitloads on it:)

[aaronng]

Let's all stop from talking about the modded versions of the engines. And instead concentrate on stock V8s from manufacturers.

[pillow]

That would be nice but the fact is it's horses for courses. The LS1 was designed as an affordable V8 motor, whereas companys like BMW and Mercedes Benz and Audi don't design their motors with the same cost at the level of R+D and sales to the public. I believe there is no ' best' V8, just a lot of good ones;)

[JDM.Power]

comparing tune cars is just stupid..whats the fun out of that?

[locote]

A mate of mine's VT SS runs low 12's wth a little over 330hp at the wheels, full interior, everything - and it gets around 12L/100km around town. From the factory Holdens (and most cars) are tuned to run extremely rich. My Adventra does well if it gets 16.5-17L/100km - and it's a stock LS1 pulling a massive 2 tonnes and is AWD.



330hp WAW!!!!
well my mates N14 Ti pulsar has 320Hp at front wheels and it weighs under a tonne.
and it cost under 10grand.
hes not into drag racing but so dont know what time he would get but if a big old cluncky commodore can get low 12s with only 330hp then that make his car a 10 sec car hey.
his beaten 400hp old school cars most of his mates r into them.
(Chargers, Ford Gts, Mustangs)

and stock to stock i pulled a 13.8 in my s15 when it was stock.
best ive seen from a stock 2002 LS1 at drags is 14.6
what a joke!!!!!!
Holden are so poor they couldnt make a descent 6 cyl they had to pay nissan to use the RB30e, and et to use on their commodore.

[LVNIT]

No it doesnt make his car a low 10 second car, I dont believe 330hp will get him anywhere near the 10s.. Besides, he then needs to add slicks, fix up driveshafts, gearboxes, CVs etc. All because FWD sucks dick, I know - i had a turbo civic.

AND i have dragged our LS1, ran a 13.7 stock, so obviously the driver of that 2002 LS1 cant drive for shiit ;)

[locote]

330hp in a commodore might get him low 13s.
y do you think 330hp in a car that weighs round 1600kg will be faster than a 990kg car
same power a 600kg less and this car runs low 12s.
tell u wat!!!!
the odds dont look to good for the LS1.

sorry but i forgot 2 mention my mate with the boosted LS1 had to have 2 rebuilds,
1 was a call back from Holden the other was it couldnt handle boost :(

[locote]

AND i have dragged our LS1, ran a 13.7 stock, so obviously the driver of that 2002 LS1 cant drive for shiit ;)


that would account for 99% of HOLDEN drivers,
CANT DRIVE FOR SHIT!!!!

[locote]

No it doesnt make his car a low 10 second car, I dont believe 330hp will get him anywhere near the 10s.. Besides, he then needs to add slicks, fix up driveshafts, gearboxes, CVs etc. All because FWD sucks dick, I know - i had a turbo civic.




please dont compare NISSANS to HONDAS i think that would be quite insulting to ppl in this forum.

[LVNIT]

I never said it wouldnt be faster then the LS1, did i? Im just saying i dont see about 250fwkw running 10s..

Tuning kills engines mate, fair enough if holden called an engine back, but the other one is either poor management of the engine or a tuning problem.

EDIT: Ill ***en compare it if I want.. The fact of the matter is, you are still going to break driveshafts on a honda :rolleyes:

Dead set you just have an issue with Holdens, your above statements just make you look like an idiot. Such as the one about Holden drivers not being able to drive, its just a huge generalisation

[locote]

i have no problems with holdens,
i love the utes!!!!!!
i think they look awsome!!!!!
but there is so much more out there in that price range.
and they are so common.

[locote]

i work in an industry, that i have to go out in power fault situations (eg power poles)
and i have seen so many holdens wrapped around pole its not funny!!!!!
about 80% to be bout right!
i have seen many holdens just loose it!
mainly young guys that think they have same skills and car a Peter Brock!!!
go to a wrecker and youl find what ever your looking for if its Holden.
How hard is it to find ITR parts?????

[[[d a n n y]]]

It's an Inline 6, not V8. And if it was a GTR, it would use more petrol than a stock LS1!

From reviews, I've seen VYII SS doing about 17L/100km city. Pure highway should be 12L/100km then?

i was refreing a tuned GTR

andhe was refering a Tuned LS

[gnx1987]

No offence to whoever started this thread but that question about the best v8 was gonna cause arguements from conception. It should have been what's your favourite v8 and why or something. And to all the v8/holden bashers out there, don't be so narrow minded and think there's nothing better than rice and euro. Seen the latest street machine magazine? Twin turbo v8 (can't rememeber the size) torana over 2000 horsepower! Acheivable from a 4 potter? Possibly but the motor would probably only last a few seconds after you shove about 300 pounds into it. Be open minded and be a fan of anything that looks good or goes good. And on that rb30 they shoved in the VL's, note that it only lasted one model until it was replaced? I know the story behind holden replacing it with the buick motor aswell if anyones interested.

[pillow]

i work in an industry, that i have to go out in power fault situations (eg power poles)
and i have seen so many holdens wrapped around pole its not funny!!!!!
about 80% to be bout right!
i have seen many holdens just loose it!
mainly young guys that think they have same skills and car a Peter Brock!!!
go to a wrecker and youl find what ever your looking for if its Holden.
How hard is it to find ITR parts?????

Ever had a look at sales figures between Holden's and Type R's? Sheer weight of numbers I think might explain that.

gnx1987 - Yep thats Ivan Tesic's Torana on the cover of street machine, 6 second passes:D:D:D Have a look at any number of magazines and you'll see big power Holdens, for example the TRYHRD R8 - 1500-2000hp.:thumbsup:

[nastyazn694u]

anyway back on topic,
my favourite is the supercharged v8 in the Mercedes-McLaren SLR :P

[monaroCountry]

Y would i wanna race with mates in the car?????????????
that is the stupidist thing any one would!
Hahahahahahh I don’t think you actually understood me :). I was emphasizing the fact that v8 commodores has a far better engine than an S15 (since we are talking about engines). Your only advantage is weight, hence try stuffing several large mates to your car. Don’t worry it was good for a laugh :)


i only spent 4gs on performance mods on S15 to get 300rwhp.
I only spent 4gs on performance mods on S15 to get 300rwhp.
The S15 has way more potential than any commodore!!!!!!
all that my needed for 400rwhp + was a bigger turbo and bigger injectors thats a another 3000. that’s a high 10sec car
You sound like a newb!!!!! Id like to take the whole approach into performance mods. Simply adding on a bigger turbo and injectors and increasing BOOST would certainly not give you a reliable fast car. There’s a lot more things that you would have to look at firstly getting your car in shape, brakes and suspension, exhaust, cooling (bigger radiator, IC, oil cooler and trans cooler), new ecu, beefing up your engines internals (trust me its better to spend extra now than a rebuild later - don’t believe idi0ts that say Nissan engines are good for 6??+ hp stock), change gearing (better responsiveness and less taxing on engine), UP, electronics.

Having a ten second car is not an easy thing...............the fastest Nissan GTR (to my knowledge) in the world is a high 7 sec range, the fastest LS1 is a mid 6 sec. These cars are highly modified and built by tuning houses with lots of $$$$$$. One of the fastest 300zx TT in Australia is a 10 sec car (check out JP's slot car - from unique auto sport), which puts out over 400kw at the wheels.

I’m not saying that its not possible to get a 10 sec car with very minimal mods......what im saying is that its foolish to do so.

The s15 certainly does not have as much potential as a commodore. There’s a supercharger kit out for LS1's for around 3k. There are also several TT setups available, have a look at APS's twin turbo kit for the LS1.

The LS1 in factory form is severely detuned, removing the torque management would greatly improve the cars performance.....

[Febs]

Haha..I sign up today and find a V8 thread talking about LS1s. heh, and I joined just to talk about my gf's new Jazz.


The LS1 in factory form is severely detuned, removing the torque management would greatly improve the cars performance.....

Certainly does. Mine is a HEAVY Calais (about 1850kg with driver, 1770ish without), and it did a 12.949 on a reasonably hot day with simple mods - exhaust, 3.46 diff, different intake, and most importantly - a tune which removed the torque management.

Plenty of potential, that's for sure. My mods all up cost me under $4,000 (and if I wanted to scrimp, I could've gotten away with it all for under $3,000).

Cheers,
- Febs.

[monaroCountry]

a tune which removed the torque management.
Do you have an auto or manual. I think auto has 2 torque management 1 from trans and the other engine. Manual should only have 1, the engine.

[Febs]

Do you have an auto or manual. I think auto has 2 torque management 1 from trans and the other engine. Manual should only have 1, the engine.

Auto - unfortunately Calais are auto-only.
Any 6sp LS1s (Exec or SS) would've cost me $$$ in insurance. LS1 Calais and Berlina's are cheap as chips to insure, because young guys generally don't drive them. :)

It's fun though. Very comfy, and it makes kills at WSID all the more entertaining when people I've never met make comments like this on random forums:

Ahhh yes, I know the car too well! I raced next to ya at the Creek a few months ago. I thought to myself "piece of cake" and then you pulled a low 13s quarter.

Cheers,
- Febs.

[locote]

what was ur term speed febs????

[Febs]

what was ur term speed febs????

108.67mph.
Timeslip (http://febs.reddrop.net/images/car/calais/12.949-timeslip.jpg) :)

Cheers,
- Febs.

[locote]

nice,
i dont have my time slip for my S15 times gave them to the bloke that baught the car.
i did a 13.01 @ 107mph
couple of months later after tuning
i did a 13.2 @ 113mph
1st, 2nd gear were all wheel spin!!!! lol
big difference to what i drive now only 15.2@89mph

[locote]

my 60ft were around the 2.5, 2.6

[Febs]

i did a 13.2 @ 113mph
<snip>
my 60ft were around the 2.5, 2.6


Heh, I'm not surprised! 113mph would've easily put you well into the 12s with a decent launch. Most probably a low 12 if your 60ft was 2.5 when you did 13.2!

Cheers,
- Febs.

[monaroCountry]

Auto - unfortunately Calais are auto-only.
Any 6sp LS1s (Exec or SS) would've cost me $$$ in insurance. LS1 Calais and Berlina's are cheap as chips to insure, because young guys generally don't drive them.

It's fun though. Very comfy, and it makes kills at WSID all the more entertaining when people I've never met make comments like this on random forums:
Nothing wrong with auto, especially when dragging. Ive also got an auto. For some cars like mine, an auto is actually faster than a manual (on boost straight away), 0-100. In saying that I still love driving a manual, for some odd reason I find it easier launching a manual than an auto.

[locote]

my mates VNss runs low 12s with 111, 112mph.
its not a everyday car but!!!!!
his got a 13 sec VK as his daily driver

[Hadean]

It's almost a shame to see people make comments about an engine like the GM LS2 based on numbers, heresay and stereotypes.

Most people here will agree that 'best' to one person can mean something completely different to another. Things like power, weight, response, fuel efficiency, reliability, emissions, sound, packaging, history, technology, ideology / philosophy, uniqueness, novelty & COST - play in the minds of people who desire or aspire to own or drive cars with such an engine.

I think it's not surprising to see this much GM / Holden bashing on a Honda forum - but I think some people here are missing out on a lot by flushing the LS2 down the toilet. This engine is remarkable in more ways than you can immediately think.

I'm going to take a chance here by defending this engine. But to show you I am not biased I will let you all know I am a die-hard fan of Honda - I've only owned Hondas, a civic EF and now a integra DC5-R. I'm a fan of Honda F1 and I'd love to one day see that team take podiums and championships.

I am also an engineer. I've worked FOR General Motors HOLDEN down in Port Melbourne in 2003. During my time down there I worked directly in the VW platform (VY to VZ and upcoming VE). I've had my chances to drive a LS1+ (the export monaro known as a Pontiac GTO) and the prototype 6.0L LS2 transplanted into a Monaro for development.

Since the cat has been out of the bag for a while now (The LS2 is being used in the HSVs and soon to the VE range) I can speak relatively freely without being scared of confidentiality agreements.

For such a low-tech, dinosaur pushrodded engine, it's got an extremely low COG for a V8. It's a fantastically packaged, short blocked V8 that sits extremly snug in the engine bay of a car like a Monaro. These are the first impressions.

I had not been a Holden fan of the past, but this experienced changed my opinion and gave me a new RESPECT for this engine. It may not have wizz bang gadgets, vtec/turbo/charger or superlighttitaniumchromemolyalloy crap, but it's an honest, reliable robust block that I KNOW will keep banging on long after most of us in Hondas will be crying foul when our engines have siezed when it's skipped a service!

This LS2 has around 300Kw and around 500Nm of torque. On paper this already sounds like a heavy hitter already! Forget your M5 V10s and AMG V8s because this thing doesn't cost the earth! Forget your silly Mugen V10 race motors and HF1 20,000rpm V8s because this thing will drive to the shops and back and cover over 300,000+kms in easy fashion.

On the road this engine is an absolutely****enfastweapon! It has the best power delivery of ANY car I have driven in - and such will stomp on SUBARU/HONDA/NISSAN - none of their top engines can even come close to replicating the instant surge of torque delivery and driveability this engine can deliver.

And before you roll your eyes at me, yes I have driven turbo STis, a modified 28psi, 300KWATW beast, as well as fit GTRs and bleh - For all the japanese turbo tech, NA is truly best, and what NA can't provide that turbo can, can be made up for DISPLACEMENT. OOOOH YES. The old saying rings true back then, and still rings true TODAY. THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT period

Sure, you can add your variable cam timing and even adjust your valve lift dynamically - but these things can only do so much. You want CUBIC INCHES! The LS2 special equipped Monaro belted easy 13s without breaking a sweat, and would do it ALL day, in an AUTO as well. Whilst the engine was a prototype, the mechanicals are the same as they are now, perhaps differing in ECU tune - because in Autos this engine will spin wheels in upchanges in 2nd and 3rd gears! They had problems with the initial tune in the US because the motor was spinning tyres in their RIMS on the corvettes!

TO explain this to us torqued-challenged honda drivers, the rubber of the wheels was turning so hard during upchanges that the rims were rotating faster than the wheels was turning relative to the road! Yes, rubber was burning INSIDE the wheel!

The LS2 put me so hard in my seat, I made a mention to the trim designers to do something about the padding because it was too soft and I was literally sinking into the seat (much like those EVO 8 ads back then) during heavy acceleration.

Enough of the power; I had experienced an engine in a car that could easily out-accelerate that 300KW STi and probably felt the same as a GTR (on boost) but had far better response and low-end torque these turbo-mills could only dream of. Sure, they would dust the RWD Monaro on a standing start, but on any walking start they would surely have a problem on their hands.

This engine was also more fuel efficient than the LS1. Because there was so much torque, the almost useless 6th gear on the commodores could actually be used because it had the twist to turn it without lugging the engine. We were seeing 700-800 kms on a 70L tank and caning it whenever we had the chance on a open road!

This engine was retuned for australian conditions - you could drive it to the outback in 50 degree outback heat for hours on end and in dust and would still crank time and time again - lets see a tricked up RB26 or a highly strung F20C do that! Pah!

And the glorious sound this beast made. It's not the BEST sounding V8 ever, that silverware goes to the FORD V8 used in the ASTON MARTIN V8 Vantage - Top Gear's Best Engine Sounds AWARD (beating AMGs and F430s mind you!), but the sounds was incredibly seductive and magnificient with all the burbles and pops you'd expect in a true performance engine! You won't get that in any 4-pot torqueless wonder. Don't say to me that "oh but can it rev to 8,000rpm" because this motor doesn't need to and would sound fantastic without bolting on any annoying fart-can exhausts one would do to a 4-pot engine. Don't like the sound of a rich, fat, burbling V8? Then go watch F1, those V8s scream at 20,000rpm. A V8 will ALWAYS sound better than a 4-pot. A Subaru flat-four is a poor man's porsche flat-six!

I walked away from GM Holden with a new respect for their engines. It was Fast, it sounded sexy, it ate miles and miles without problem and it's CHEAP - something an Ordinary Guy could ACTUALLY afford. It passed all the californian CARB emissions laws (which are one of the strictest in the world). All STOCK, no mods, no zorts blah blah blah.

It may not have the same racing heritage, or racing technology like Honda, but I can see why this engine made so many fans of it. You can't just go and say the GM V8 is a pile of junk. That is just so unfair and I made this trouble to enlighten those who have not experienced such a good motor. I still drive and love my K20A2 powered Integra and relish everytime I hit 8,000rpm. The VTEC sends shivers down my spine and the pickup is great. But my engine pleases me in ways a GM V8 cannot. Tastes are different but I am the better man for it to have learnt about something I would've normally cast aside. Don't shaft yourself by underestimating this LS2 V8.

[superR]

lol and 6L V8 LS commo? my type R eats them for snacks .....but then shits out the other 4 cylenders! lol
i love the new Merc SL 55 AMG version ....freaking awesome and freaking expensive :P

[matt]

mmm i dont know anything about your car superR but while i certainly dont think the ls2 is the best v8 in the world i would like to see you beat one in a staright line, on a twisty road however the little honda screamer would show the big dumb commo whos boss!.
for the money though the ls2 is a great engine for people who like that sort of thing, hell once upon a time i wanted nothing more than a rumbling commodore v8.
but it really comes down to what people want and after driving my brothers integra while i had a vt commo, well the rest is history ( :honda: :thumbsup: ).

edit: just found that your type r is turboed superR (nice), while this would make it somewhat closer i would still think that the ls2 would come out in front.

[aaronng]

Most people here will agree that 'best' to one person can mean something completely different to another. Things like power, weight, response, fuel efficiency, reliability, emissions, sound, packaging, history, technology, ideology / philosophy, uniqueness, novelty & COST - play in the minds of people who desire or aspire to own or drive cars with such an engine.

I think it's not surprising to see this much GM / Holden bashing on a Honda forum - but I think some people here are missing out on a lot by flushing the LS2 down the toilet. This engine is remarkable in more ways than you can immediately think.I find the LS1 interesting because it brings a V8 engine and its performance to a cost level that can't otherwise be attained. Also, the compact packaging of the engine is amazing as they are able to fit the engine without requiring a bonnet bump like as the Ford V8 requires.



Sure, you can add your variable cam timing and even adjust your valve lift dynamically - but these things can only do so much. You want CUBIC INCHES! The LS2 special equipped Monaro belted easy 13s without breaking a sweat, and would do it ALL day, in an AUTO as well. Whilst the engine was a prototype, the mechanicals are the same as they are now, perhaps differing in ECU tune - because in Autos this engine will spin wheels in upchanges in 2nd and 3rd gears! They had problems with the initial tune in the US because the motor was spinning tyres in their RIMS on the corvettes!
Unfortunately, what most of us want is to be able to give it a fang for performance once in a while, and then at all other times, return 6-8L/100km in the city. That is why many honda owners are proud of VTEC. They have enough pull to beat a stock V8 (even my stock family car beats stock V6s) and at the other 95% of the time, return a fuel consumption figure of less than 10L/100km. And when we go on to the open road, fuel consumption is even lower.



TO explain this to us torqued-challenged honda drivers, the rubber of the wheels was turning so hard during upchanges that the rims were rotating faster than the wheels was turning relative to the road! Yes, rubber was burning INSIDE the wheel!
We're already having problems with the tyres spinning being FWD, we wouldn't appreciate the fact that the rims were spinning inside the tyre as well. ;)



This engine was also more fuel efficient than the LS1. Because there was so much torque, the almost useless 6th gear on the commodores could actually be used because it had the twist to turn it without lugging the engine. We were seeing 700-800 kms on a 70L tank and caning it whenever we had the chance on a open road!
What is the RPM in 6th gear when cruising at the speed limit (110km/h)? I get 7L/100km on the open road including many stints up to redline in 2nd gear.That gives me 1000km if I had a 70L tank (my tank's only 65L).



This engine was retuned for australian conditions - you could drive it to the outback in 50 degree outback heat for hours on end and in dust and would still crank time and time again - lets see a tricked up RB26 or a highly strung F20C do that! Pah!
Stock honda engines are also retuned for australian conditions. So they can go into the outback too and not overheat or fail. But the fact that most hondas are FWD make them unsuitable when offroad in the outback.



And the glorious sound this beast made. It's not the BEST sounding V8 ever, that silverware goes to the FORD V8 used in the ASTON MARTIN V8 Vantage - Top Gear's Best Engine Sounds AWARD (beating AMGs and F430s mind you!), but the sounds was incredibly seductive and magnificient with all the burbles and pops you'd expect in a true performance engine!
It's a personal preference, but I prefer the sound of a flat-plane V8 over that of a cross-plane V8 (GM and Ford V8). In fact, a flat-plane V8 engine sounds like 2 inline-4 engines revving in unison.



You won't get that in any 4-pot torqueless wonder. Don't say to me that "oh but can it rev to 8,000rpm" because this motor doesn't need to and would sound fantastic without bolting on any annoying fart-can exhausts one would do to a 4-pot engine. Don't like the sound of a rich, fat, burbling V8? Then go watch F1, those V8s scream at 20,000rpm. A V8 will ALWAYS sound better than a 4-pot. A Subaru flat-four is a poor man's porsche flat-six!
F1's V8s are flat plane, and hence sound like 2 inline-4 engines revving together. If you listen to an F1 V8 idling, it sounds like that of an Inline-4 engine!



I walked away from GM Holden with a new respect for their engines. It was Fast, it sounded sexy, it ate miles and miles without problem and it's CHEAP - something an Ordinary Guy could ACTUALLY afford. It passed all the californian CARB emissions laws (which are one of the strictest in the world). All STOCK, no mods, no zorts blah blah blah.

It may not have the same racing heritage, or racing technology like Honda, but I can see why this engine made so many fans of it. You can't just go and say the GM V8 is a pile of junk.
As I said, I like the LS1 because it brings V8 to the masses. Not all of us can afford a Ferrari, Aston, Jaguar, Mercedes or BMW V8. Holden and Ford has brought the stuff of dreams to the public at an affordable price with acceptable reliability. It is not a pile of junk. Too bad though that many people like to be different and are proud when we can say that our engine with inferior capacity and fewer cylinders can keep up or even beat larger engines and cars. I'd have to say that I am one of them. But in the future if petrol prices come back to normal, I would like to have a taste of V8. A flat-plane V8 of course!

[Terry]

You Monarocounty..........GO BACK TO WORK!

Holden may be able to sell a few more cars because of you!

Stop wasting your time here.....

You just like Bush......forcing people to accept your idea without considering their background......Here is OzHonda man.....V8 wtf?

Can u win over the debate? Even if u win......Is it every Honda need to have a V8?

...........-_-"........

[EuroAccord13]

GUYS...

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but keep personal attacks and comments out..

It's going to get heated and when it gets heated, it's going to be locked and when it gets locked, people starts spamming about how strict mods are...

SEE how complicated it gets when we are trying to protect members and yet still get the sh*ts... Help us keep it nice and clean and everyone stays happy :D



This is a Honda forum... If this topic goes to a Nissan or Ford forum, same thing is going to happen there....


By the way, I drove my friend's dad new SS... Even in Auto, the car is tail happy and fast :D....

[Hadean]

aaronng. Your points are valid, but I refer to the 6.0L LS2, not the 5.7L LS1. These two engines are vastly different from each other in almost every way.

[aaronng]

aaronng. Your points are valid, but I refer to the 6.0L LS2, not the 5.7L LS1. These two engines are vastly different from each other in almost every way.
That's because the LS2 is not yet released for the Holden range, only HSV :) . Once Holden starts using it, then the LS2 will take over the reign of "V8 for the masses" position (and will sit beside the LS1 in my books).

Based on your experience with the LS2, Holden seems to have addressed the issue of the lack of low end grunt in the LS1, which to me was very odd for a 5.7L engine. But I guess it was because the ECU mapping for some reason neglected the lower RPM range.

[notorious_ahmie]

goooo aarronngg!!!!

[gnx1987]

330hp WAW!!!!
well my mates N14 Ti pulsar has 320Hp at front wheels and it weighs under a tonne.
and it cost under 10grand.
hes not into drag racing but so dont know what time he would get but if a big old cluncky commodore can get low 12s with only 330hp then that make his car a 10 sec car hey.
his beaten 400hp old school cars most of his mates r into them.
(Chargers, Ford Gts, Mustangs)

and stock to stock i pulled a 13.8 in my s15 when it was stock.
best ive seen from a stock 2002 LS1 at drags is 14.6
what a joke!!!!!!
Holden are so poor they couldnt make a descent 6 cyl they had to pay nissan to use the RB30e, and et to use on their commodore.

locote did you notice the RB30 only lasted one model? I understand this is because they kept cracking heads in the VL. Also aaronng the ls2 has been fast tracked into VZ Holdens since January 1st this year apparently, because of Euro 3 emissions rules. It has 260 kw and 510 Nm on 98 octane and holden claims 14L/100k. Also because of the deadline it doesn't get the displacement on demand or variable valve timing but these things will probably go into the VE when it's released.

[Febs]

on a twisty road however the little honda screamer would show the big dumb commo whos boss!

No doubt the TypeR is a mean handler...but don't write the Commodores off as straight-line material only.

A mate of mine has a V2 Series 3 Monaro ('04), bog stock except for a home-made fibreglass intake, a downloaded tune, semi-slicks and some adjustable camber/toe stuff up front.

He's only been to Wakefield a few times, but has done a 1:12.xx and does consistent 1:13:xx's. Another bloke does the same times in his VX SS, again with basic mods (tune, exhaust, diff gears, suspension but not coilovers etc..)

There are SS's doing 1:10's around Wakefield too...so they're not only good in a straight line. Not bad for cars that weigh up to 1,800kg.

Out of pure curiosity, what's a stock (recent model) TypeR do around Wakefield in the hands of a good driver? AndyS mate, if you're reading, feel free to chime in. :) I looked through a few threads but didn't see any times.

Cheers,
- Febs.

[j3z3z]

**** for my own 2cents the BEST v8 would be the twin turbo out of the bitching old ferrari F40.

[[[d a n n y]]]

sorry guys i've been converted..
i used to hate V8's and i shited on em all day and bagged em out badly.
but i'm going to have to jump and the V8 band wagon..
a while ago i was driving around in my work V8 monaro.
i believe it is the LS1 ( first gen monaro)
i couldnt believe how resposive and powerfull this engine was.
it wasnt like a turbo rush, but it was making constant power all they up to 6.5K rpm ( i think it was) sounded beautiful with extractors and dual piping exhaust.
turned the A/C no power difference.. the car it self wasnt the best ( big turning circle/ steering wheel too big. etc) but the engine felt the business.
it wasnt that bad on fuel either..
it wasnt a four cylinder run of fuel puff efficiency, but for the size and power it was drinking so little then what i expected.
i really think this is a great engine.
and i have been converted.
eventhough the LS serise isnt the best power maker in the world but it wins my votes for user friendly engine ??! lol

[marcus]

BMW S62 engine form the E39 M5. 400hp (298kw) & 369 lb-ft (500nm) from a 5L V8.

thats 5l v8....

b16a is 170hp 155torque 1.6l....

if u
x5 of b16a engine > BMW S62 engine

honda power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Mr_will]

BMW S62 engine form the E39 M5. 400hp (298kw) & 369 lb-ft (500nm) from a 5L V8.

thats 5l v8....

b16a is 170hp 155torque 1.6l....

if u
x5 of b16a engine > BMW S62 engine

honda power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


why would you multiply it by 5 when it only has twice the number of cylinders....

if you work out specifc power, bmw = 400hp/8 = 50hp

b16a = 170/4 = 42.5

bmw still wins

or...per litre....400hp/5l = 80hp/litre

b16a = 170hp/1.6l = 106.25

[aaronng]

why would you multiply it by 5 when it only has twice the number of cylinders....

if you work out specifc power, bmw = 400hp/8 = 50hp

b16a = 170/4 = 42.5

bmw still wins

or...per litre....400hp/5l = 80hp/litre

b16a = 170hp/1.6l = 106.25
Uhhhhh... I've never seen specific power worked out as hp per cylinder. It's always hp per litre.

[ROLLED]

and the F20C 240hp/2.0L = 120hp/L of displacement....

and wtf is hp per cylinder? noob!

[marcus]

if per litre
b16
170/1.6 =106.25 hp

honda wins!!!!!!

vtec the power of dreams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[superR]

mmm i dont know anything about your car superR but while i certainly dont think the ls2 is the best v8 in the world i would like to see you beat one in a staright line, on a twisty road however the little honda screamer would show the big dumb commo whos boss!.
for the money though the ls2 is a great engine for people who like that sort of thing, hell once upon a time i wanted nothing more than a rumbling commodore v8.
but it really comes down to what people want and after driving my brothers integra while i had a vt commo, well the rest is history ( :honda: :thumbsup: ).

edit: just found that your type r is turboed superR (nice), while this would make it somewhat closer i would still think that the ls2 would come out in front.

lol turbo type R.... i wont say the output but its upthere. lol

[ginganggooly]

debating specific power outputs is pointless as it's just a factor of the state of tune of the motor.

[aaronng]

if per litre
b16
170/1.6 =106.25 hp

honda wins!!!!!!

vtec the power of dreams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway...... this is meant to be an 8 cylinder engine thread. So Honda doesn't win! It's short of 4 cylinders and is therefore disqualified from this thread. :cool:

[sever_all_ties]

Im a fan of old school v8s. In particular, the 426 HEMI.

[crx_boy7]

i think the reason they only use 2 valves per cylinder is to save feul
i mean less air means less feul - the power of holden engineering
should try variable lift but then agen they still havent even got DOHC
this would probably be to complex for them


however i was surprised to learn about some of the high comperssions the old hemi ran back when we had leaded feuls like 12 or 13 was it???

yea its nice to drive a car where u put ur foot down and of u go, no downshifts,no screaming, no controll of what gear ur in and ultimately very little controll in a long drift situation or even a sharp turn, causeing the thing to downshift and loose controll
thats the one i driven anyhow

[crx_boy7]

lolz i seriously doubt that the ls2 would have a chance, even if the honda was making half the power of the ls2 it would still have no trouble to pull away even at 180

iv witnessed a race with a 5.7 V-whatever(something like 2004 with the triangle tail lights)
racing a DC2R(modded) suprising results hehe

[Mr_will]

i think the reason they only use 2 valves per cylinder is to save feul
i mean less air means less feul - the power of holden engineering
should try variable lift but then agen they still havent even got DOHC
this would probably be to complex for them


however i was surprised to learn about some of the high comperssions the old hemi ran back when we had leaded feuls like 12 or 13 was it???

yea its nice to drive a car where u put ur foot down and of u go, no downshifts,no screaming, no controll of what gear ur in and ultimately very little controll in a long drift situation or even a sharp turn, causeing the thing to downshift and loose controll
thats the one i driven anyhow

having two valves as opposed two four is only going to impede the flow of air, not reduce the amount thats going in. you can reduce the inflow of air by having a restrictive intake, theres no need to go ditching valves.
having 4 valves per cylinder would make the engine more efficient, meaning it could make similar power with lower fuel consumption, and besides, youd have to take into account the size of the valves before you started saying that two means less air, for all you know they could be twice the size

[gnx1987]

i think the reason they only use 2 valves per cylinder is to save feul
i mean less air means less feul - the power of holden engineering
should try variable lift but then agen they still havent even got DOHC
this would probably be to complex for them


however i was surprised to learn about some of the high comperssions the old hemi ran back when we had leaded feuls like 12 or 13 was it???

yea its nice to drive a car where u put ur foot down and of u go, no downshifts,no screaming, no controll of what gear ur in and ultimately very little controll in a long drift situation or even a sharp turn, causeing the thing to downshift and loose controll
thats the one i driven anyhow

I don't know if you've noticed but holden haven't made their own v8 since VT series 1. I actually heard they were developing a sohc 5.0 but gm came along and told them to just use the gen 3. And what the hell are you doing trying to drift an early 70's V8 for? Different cars are made for different reasons. Those old dodges, straight line performance. Little civics, excels, corrollas etc, economy. Even F1 cars can only be raced. Take them on the road and there stuffed. Don't go bagging cars just cause they can't do everything.

[yourfather]

however i was surprised to learn about some of the high comperssions the old hemi ran back when we had leaded feuls like 12 or 13 was it???


Yeah but the reason why they put lead in fuel was to increase the octane rating and reduce chance of detonation.

[crx_boy7]

having two valves as opposed two four is only going to impede the flow of air, not reduce the amount thats going in. you can reduce the inflow of air by having a restrictive intake, theres no need to go ditching valves.
having 4 valves per cylinder would make the engine more efficient, meaning it could make similar power with lower fuel consumption, and besides, youd have to take into account the size of the valves before you started saying that two means less air, for all you know they could be twice the size

um -hmm.. less air getting in means less feul needs to be added to make the same feul ratio, the only other large factor is friction and inertia
y dont they use a quad cam and make the intake smaller?? i dont know ring holden and ask... mabe the want reduced costs,mebe they want lighter drivetrain, or mebe their just too stupid

and how is a 4 valve going to be more eficient on feul????? hahahahahaha

how the *** can u get more air in with a 2valve engine as opposed to a 4 valve using the same lift and duration ??? r u F***d in the head ??? its obvious that u can make more room for air to travel through using more of the heads surface area.. considering the head in most cases is a flat circle and the valves have to be circles too more of the head can be open to flow air in
if there is more valves. FFS y do u think the toyota 20valve was so popular??
and y dose anything anyone say have to have a comeback on these v8 related discusions??

[skinnyboy]

It's almost a shame to see people make comments about an engine like the GM LS2 based on numbers, heresay and stereotypes.

and so on.....

Totally agree with you there squire. If you are a car fan you'll appreciate what this engine is all about, supercar for the masses, just like the old Hemi's in the 60-70's

i love my Honda's, always have, but the sound of a V8 tuned and snorting... pffft vtec sounds like a starter motor in comparison.

I drive all manner of cars from lowly Kia's all the way upto the finest offerings on our roads, and nothing beats the bang for your buck like a big boofy Holden Monaro sideways up Princes Highway! If i had the cash, I'd have one just for the noise alone.

[aaronng]

Actually, LS1's valve placement is almost flat, and not at an angle like a 4-valve per cylinder engine. I think it's because of the way the pushrods work that the valve has to be flattish. If you look at this pic of the LS1, I'd say having 3 or 4 valves would drive up the cost and complexity.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/151000-151999/151822_29_full.jpg

BTW, having 2 large valves means that air can enter without much restriction at low RPM. But at high RPM, the additional surface area of the 4 (And 5) valve engine gives it a bigger advantage. Since the ORIGINAL design of the pushrod V8 was for a muscle car and emphasised on instant push at normal driving RPM, 2 valves was adequate and in fact a good design to balance between price and performance.

Of course, nowadays with VTEC valve control, having 4 valves at low RPM is better than 2 valves because VTEC allows 1 intake valve to be shut at low RPM so that there is a swirling effect and thus better mixing for low end torque (12 valve operation of the K series engine for the Thai Accord). In fact, when you look at the LS1's 1 intake valve on the side, that too provides better mixing with just a simple cylinder head design!

[crx_boy7]

yea there is a lil more room arond the valve for the air to get in but with the slight angle on 4valve engines there is more room for air to get around anyhow, and a 2valve has to have less flow through the runners compared to a 4 valve, unless the 4valve has unnesaserally small runners

i think the reason is that at lower rpm there isnt as much need for more efficient breathing, like think about ur car at 1500rpm there is no need for full throttle as it will not make worthwile gains after about 1/2 open throttle. its probably the same with the holden and its the cause of its lack of power in the higher rev range

the way the air gets in is by the piston sucking it in so the smaller the runners or the less the valves the more the vacum even at lowwer revs. but at higher revs there is less time for the air to get in so u need a better flowing head

[gmonkey]

the euros do the best v8s easily... i just dont get how a 6ltr v8 can only produce a meer 300kw.. when an audi v8 FSi can produce 309kw :P yes its 9kw more but its also 1.8 liters smaller.. thats a whole b18 smaller :P. and the ls2 will never be better than a 5.7 hemi (290kw) from the yanks just for the pure fact its a hemi..

[delsol9000rpms]

2 bseries or kseries engine welded together will work a treat lol...

[YBOOST]

the euros do the best v8s easily... i just dont get how a 6ltr v8 can only produce a meer 300kw.. when an audi v8 FSi can produce 309kw :P yes its 9kw more but its also 1.8 liters smaller.. thats a whole b18 smaller :P. and the ls2 will never be better than a 5.7 hemi (290kw) from the yanks just for the pure fact its a hemi..

there's too many restrictions for the ozzy market. the 6L motor has great potential, my mate has a VE SS with cold air intake, extractors, full exhaust and bigger cam and it made 309kw atw! Same mods on my cousins 5.7L made 283kw atw.

Hemi motors are tuff and powerfull but so can the Chevs.

[Malenic1981]

C63 AMG 6.2l is just unreal, lots of power and torque, it sh#ts all over LS engines, the other fully sick V8 is new M3s powerplant, 4.0l revs to 8500rpm

[Chernoby1]

W T F?
3 Year old thread revival?????

But to contribute.... Suzuki H2a-b. 2.8L v8 pushing close to 350kw NA. Not sure how many were built... but some companies having been making their own blocks based on Hayabusa's*** lol


*** Seen here (http://store.powertecengineering.com/acatalog/Powertec_RP_Range_V8_Engines.html)
Same company also does some funky stuff to k20's

[aaronng]

W T F?
3 Year old thread revival?????

But to contribute.... Suzuki H2a-b. 2.8L v8 pushing close to 350kw NA. Not sure how many were built... but some companies having been making their own blocks based on Hayabusa's*** lol


*** Seen here (http://store.powertecengineering.com/acatalog/Powertec_RP_Range_V8_Engines.html)
Same company also does some funky stuff to k20's
Nice, but those engines would need a rebuild every few ten's of thousands km. Unlike the C63 AMG's engine, which is actually detuned from the original!

[Age_S2000]

hate to break to you all but to be quite honest this is how it works.

best V8 for economy, reliability and street power definatly OHC

best V8 for ALL OUT POWER Push Rod.
name a TOP FUEL Drag car with a OHC Making 8000hp????????
Funny cars ETC all rev beyond 10,000rpm and there push rod

i rest my case

[aaronng]

hate to break to you all but to be quite honest this is how it works.

best V8 for economy, reliability and street power definatly OHC

best V8 for ALL OUT POWER Push Rod.
name a TOP FUEL Drag car with a OHC Making 8000hp????????
Funny cars ETC all rev beyond 10,000rpm and there push rod

i rest my case
It is not the head that determines the max RPM.

8000hp comes from running a supercharger at 45 psi and nitromethane. Don't compare them to a street car running 98 octane. haha.

[ek4-guy]

the OP doesn't ask for best street car engine it jusy says best v8 engine in the world

[ek4-guy]

you can't go past a Keith Black Hemi as i'm sure i already mentioned in this thread a year or 2 ago lol

[gmonkey]

just re-thought my answer due to its not just road legal engines all of a sudden.. and i believe it's by far got to be the Honda RA806E 90-degree V8

[gnx1987]

the euros do the best v8s easily... i just dont get how a 6ltr v8 can only produce a meer 300kw.. when an audi v8 FSi can produce 309kw :P yes its 9kw more but its also 1.8 liters smaller.. thats a whole b18 smaller :P. and the ls2 will never be better than a 5.7 hemi (290kw) from the yanks just for the pure fact its a hemi..

At how many rpm does it make this horsepower? How much torque does it make and at what rpm? How much does one of these engines cost? How much more accurate is the air fuel ratio due to FSI? How much would it cost to fix? How much would it cost to modify (if you could modify it assuming you may want to modify it one day)?

Don't forget there's more than one number to look at when you're talking about how good an engine is.

If there was a bang for buck competition. I reckon the ls engines would win hands down.

[gmonkey]

At how many rpm does it make this horsepower? How much torque does it make and at what rpm? How much does one of these engines cost? How much more accurate is the air fuel ratio due to FSI? How much would it cost to fix? How much would it cost to modify (if you could modify it assuming you may want to modify it one day)?

Don't forget there's more than one number to look at when you're talking about how good an engine is.

If there was a bang for buck competition. I reckon the ls engines would win hands down.

Pretty sure ferrari and audi and the like would invest more money into its air/fuel ratio systems than a bulk producing company like GM, a matter of fact i know they do, companies like ferrari use great loads of real life testing, they will put an engine through the worst and make sure everything works proper, hence why you pay that higher premuim for quality, rather than GM that mass produces its v8s making it a cheaper alternative, if you want to call it that... a commodore will last what 10-20 years where in which you will spend thousands every year to keep it alive, a ferrari will run and run and run, yes the parts will be greater but you won't need to replace everything all the time compared and at the end of the day you have a friggen ferrari in your garage which will be classic not some commodore used for ramraids on a local deli.

Also you forget to mention one key thing with all these cars.. weight. It's all good having all this torque and then dumping it in 2 tonne family 4 door car or in the case or a monaro a 2 door commodore:p. OK cost is a big factor ey, pretty sure the atom 500 (another european idea) is cheaper than any 'muscle' car at the same level of performace, yes it dont have 'luxuries' e.g. a roof or windscreen but the topic was best engine in the end. And the atoms engine is based off a motorbike! oh well ive done enough rambling and defending the point euros do a better job in my mind.. still stand by honda have done the best V8 engine though (money being no object that is:P)

[gmonkey]

also how much does a corvette or a camaro cost now days?? cause i know the holden version only has 362 hp (270 kW) at 5700 rpm and 391 ft&#183;lbf (530 Nm) at 4400 rpm. which isn't that great

[aware]

the euros do the best v8s easily... i just dont get how a 6ltr v8 can only produce a meer 300kw.. when an audi v8 FSi can produce 309kw :P yes its 9kw more but its also 1.8 liters smaller.. thats a whole b18 smaller :P. and the ls2 will never be better than a 5.7 hemi (290kw) from the yanks just for the pure fact its a hemi..

LS3 in the MY09 HSV's onwards. 317kw.

[gmonkey]

still only 0-100 in 4.9... pretty dull. And why is it that holden acttually de-mod there engines.. they have less tech in them than the yanks.. look at the l76/l98 no displacement on demand tech, only get it on autos in my09 model

[d15z1SUX]

for outright power... the f1 v8's lol.

[T-onedc2]

Does the E92 BMW M3 V8 not rate high enough?
-309 kW/420 hp from 4.0 litres
-Maximum torque of 400 Newton-metres (295 lb-ft) at 3, 900 rpm, 85 per cent of maximum torque over a speed range of 6,500 rpm

[DreadAngel]

Nah man, cause you running on pump juice and street machines...

These kids rolling with the big boys with their racing motties and racing fuel! :O

F1 V8 > All lol

Though the Powertec V8s (Two Hayabusa engines joined together) that power the Radical cars are pretty sexy too =D

And why the hell are you looking at power figures for American Small/Big blocks? You should be looking at their torque rating, much more impressive...

[T-onedc2]

If reliability and engine life are not in cosideration the yes F1 def wins no question, drip feed oil and all :p

[preludacris]

the euro's own, but how dammm expensive!! gotta love the m3 engine tho.

but hey, i'm hanging out to see the new camaro SS. that push rod will sound like a dreammmm

[gnx1987]

still only 0-100 in 4.9... pretty dull. And why is it that holden acttually de-mod there engines.. they have less tech in them than the yanks.. look at the l76/l98 no displacement on demand tech, only get it on autos in my09 model

they probably detune them so when the next model comes out they can give consumers another reason to get the latest by increasing the power a bit without having to spend a cent.

[gmonkey]

it would be a pretty dumb consumer who buys a VE for example and decides they need to buy a whole new MY09 jsut for an extra 17 or so kws. I can think of money better spent...well i can think of money being better spent on something other than a commodore in the first place :P. Holden can't make good V8s....

[T-onedc2]

it would be a pretty dumb consumer who buys a VE for example and decides they need to buy a whole new MY09 jsut for an extra 17 or so kws. I can think of money better spent...well i can think of money being better spent on something other than a commodore in the first place :P. Holden can't make good V8s....
Holden haven't built a V8 since the old 5L, the rest are Chevrolet. Picky I know :p

[DreadAngel]

Its the truth so has to be known!

[gnx1987]

it would be a pretty dumb consumer who buys a VE for example and decides they need to buy a whole new MY09 jsut for an extra 17 or so kws. I can think of money better spent...well i can think of money being better spent on something other than a commodore in the first place :P. Holden can't make good V8s....

Why buy a car when a four year old is exactly the same? Besides warranty. Not everyone cares about a warranty especially when you only have to pay half the original price.

[Type S Tony]

The question of who makes the best 8 cylinder in the world cant be answered by 1 particular make of 8 cylinder as these engines cover a vast range of different uses & such. Its like saying the Ferrairs F-430 is the best, yeah ok it sounds mad and makes heaps of power, but put it in a 4wd, will it pull itself up a 60 Degree slope??? No it wont, put it in a VE commodore, will the car handle better & be more efficient & get better 0-60 times, no it wont, reason for this is it got fairly low torque as it doesnt need to pull 1600kg+ so this thread is kinda stupid if you ask me!

[gmonkey]

ahha forced to agree with tony... after all this arguements :p

[B18cEG]

I think a better rating system is needed, Cheapass lo-tech, slightly better ohc perhaps, then all out money isnt an option class, or maybe just close this thread cos it doesnt mean anything lol. we all know that the discussion is a "gm/holden v8 is the best MATE!" discussion, Dont get me wrong, I love a cammed this n that holden but i still class them as not so great. but yeah, agree with tony

[Malenic1981]

If we talk street driven V8s than europians are far ahead of rest of the world (M3, C63, RS4 ect) if we talk race engines than F1 v8s are the winners

[gmonkey]

i love how we never stop to think about 4wd v8s lol... stupid 4wd drivers :P now i imagine this will get it started lol

[crx_boy7]

i love how we never stop to think about 4wd v8s lol... stupid 4wd drivers :P now i imagine this will get it started lol

no it wont lol... but i love discusing engine tech lol

aparently 1 of the 351 ford v8s was originally made for pic ups, and not suposed to rev at all, wen i saw this engine all i could think about was how massive it was and heavy lol.. the head weighs more than my b18 block with internals.. only jokin :P but the agressive rod angle gave it exelent power

id also havto say is after looking at a few non v8 bmw engines i was suprised to see the lack of power they have in there displacement classes, and the exessive feul consumption, but they dont feel under powered


while im not a fan of the usa made v8s, id have to say im very impressed by the numbers they make in powerboats/dagsters and other 2000hp+ applications

and ofcourse that nice sound they make..

so for bang for buk, aftermarket support, low weight and availability its the low tech restrictive ls1:thumbsup:,

[ewendc2r]

C63 Engine is beautiful ... One of the nicest stock engines i've ever been priviliged to drive.

[Malenic1981]

C63 is the nicest 8 cylinder powered car I've ever driven, it's just perfection, and just recently I drove one with chip upgrade, 550HP, just unreal :))