Thread in the Lounge RE Defamatory comments

[sesshoumaru]

CTR : sorry to hear about your loss, and thanks for the warning.

MODS :
So umm... how come a defamatory thread about a company on Ebay is allowed... but any defamatory threads on local workshops isn't?

[yfin]

MODS :
So umm... how come a defamatory thread about a company on Ebay is allowed... but any defamatory threads on local workshops isn't?

Not sure what you are referring to. What is defamatory in this thread? The only way this could be remotely defamatory is if what the member says is not true in terms of what has happened.

The member is responsible for his post. If the vendor comes forward and suggests to Ozhonda the facts are wrong well that is one thing. I could understand how you might say the mods should do something if that occured.

The mods are not, however, in a position to know whether a member is telling the truth (or the full story) in a thread like this. For all we know the vendor may say they posted the goods. It is for that reason people should be cautious about what they say about other people or businesses on this forum.

[sesshoumaru]

It isn't necessarily defamation.

And re "other threads" - not sure what you are talking about but they may have been locked for lots of different reasons. That is the discretion of the mod. If someone makes bare allegations (eg x is a liar) - I can understand why such a thread might be locked. But if a member reports on what they saw, did or heard (ie the facts as the member knows them) that is a little different. Hard for a mod to go behind that unless information comes to light to suggest it is untrue.

Okay well i'm not going to argue with you about the definition of defamation because that really isn't the issue here.

I guess you haven't been one of the mods to have locked a thread like this previously, or even encountered one by the sounds of it. So we'll just have to wait for any mod that has, for their explaination.

I'm just curious to know whether it's because a mod who would consider this thread 'lockable material' hasn't found it yet... or because it's concerning a company from the US/Ebay.

[panda[cRx]]

It isn't necessarily defamation.

And re "other threads" - not sure what you are talking about but they may have been locked for lots of different reasons. That is the discretion of the mod. If someone makes bare allegations (eg x is a liar) - I can understand why such a thread might be locked. But if a member reports on what they saw, did or heard (ie the facts as the member knows them) that is a little different. Hard for a mod to go behind that unless information comes to light to suggest it is untrue.

yfin we are reffering moreso to experiences with businesses rather than personal bickering.

eg. http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23637

[yfin]

']yfin we are reffering moreso to experiences with businesses rather than personal bickering.

eg. http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23637

Thanks for the link. I'll suggest the mods discuss this so we can come up with a consistent approach.

[panda[cRx]]

With reference to defammatory comments being made, both Win and myself know what they are as both of us have written forum rules before. I am willing to continue this 'anti Kuruma Motoring' thread until they deliver the goods I paid for. All they need to do is simple. I just dont want any other OH hard earned money go down the drain by dishonest traders like these guys. ;)

mods: all we want is consistantly. all this dude did was try and warn us against dishonest servicing and his post got censored:thumbdwn:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23637 (showthread.php?t=23637)

i don't see how it's any different to adam's case, like adam says "I just dont want any other OH hard earned money go down the drain by dishonest traders like these guys"

[sesshoumaru]

Sometimes you have to take each case on face value.

what do you mean by that?

if you're saying that your situation is somehow special compared to the others (correct me if i'm mislead), then i'll have to disagree...

the only difference i can see is foreign trader vs local trader.

[wynode]

']mods: all we want is consistantly. all this dude did was try and warn us against dishonest servicing and his post got censored:thumbdwn:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23637 (showthread.php?t=23637)

i don't see how it's any different to adam's case, like adam says "I just dont want any other OH hard earned money go down the drain by dishonest traders like these guys"
Understood. However you need to understand the difference between defamation and posting facts/an account of what happened. Even then, it is a very gray area and something that lawyers will have to decide on.

To be safe, we censor out the name. If you want to know more, you can always PM the user. Have a look at the terms and conditions of Ozhonda and look carefully at the section on defamation. If we can't find a propper/consistent solution to this, we will stop any 'bad accounts'/experiances with businesses/individuals being posted on the forum completely. yfin is helping with us with this so be patient. Anyways.....back to the thread. Sorry Adam

[panda[cRx]]

what do you mean by that?

if you're saying that your situation is somehow special compared to the others (correct me if i'm mislead), then i'll have to disagree...

the only difference i can see is foreign trader vs local trader.

exactly what i was gonna say

[wynode]

the only difference i can see is foreign trader vs local trader.

A lot of people don't understand the basic meaning of defamation. That is where the confusion arises and the apparent fairness.

[sesshoumaru]

"Mods, i dont know if this belongs in this section but my purpose here is to prevent anyone wanting a "product" to buy from "OZHONDA MEMBER"

"OZHONDA MEMBER" sell "product" on OH for about $15 each.

I have to date paid for 1 of them that did NOT WORK and they will not investigate after promising to do so.

They do not return PM's
They do not help with anything.
They do not offer any refunds let alone assist with replacement units.

I've left him a bad trader rating.

Just my 2c to help you gents"

I'm actually having this problem with an OH member right now, i've left out the details of the member and item because i am hoping it can still be resolved.

If i posted this message in a new thread, would that be considered defamation? The post is pretty much a copy of what CTR has posted, just slightly altered gramatically to make sense.

[panda[cRx]]

A lot of people don't understand the basic meaning of defamation. That is where the confusion arises and the apparent fairness.

then can you specifically explain why you didn't censor adams yet the s2k service post was edited?

i don't think the s2k post was defamitory (that's if my dictionary is up to date)
he just posted a copy of a letter which included a 'factual' account of what happened.

and now here adam is posting his 'factual' acount of his experience with this ebay seller yet you choose to not to edit it?

i guess i'm just one of those people that just doesnt understand the basic meaning of defamation:confused:

[sesshoumaru]

so the thread basically gets swept into the corner?

we had a good discussion going.... :(

[zorrt]

Well if the guy was telling the truth then he wouldnt be defaming them as defaming only applies when you are lying about someone to give them a bad name. But I guess you guys are right to play it on the safe side and lock out any thread that may or may not be defamatory.

[bennjamin]

"Mods, i dont know if this belongs in this section but my purpose here is to prevent anyone wanting a "product" to buy from "OZHONDA MEMBER"

"OZHONDA MEMBER" sell "product" on OH for about $15 each.

I have to date paid for 1 of them that did NOT WORK and they will not investigate after promising to do so.

They do not return PM's
They do not help with anything.
They do not offer any refunds let alone assist with replacement units.

I've left him a bad trader rating.

Just my 2c to help you gents"

I'm actually having this problem with an OH member right now, i've left out the details of the member and item because i am hoping it can still be resolved.

If i posted this message in a new thread, would that be considered defamation? The post is pretty much a copy of what CTR has posted, just slightly altered gramatically to make sense.


so everyone knows - this was ME. :cool:

No , not in a bad (rip off ala mr EX mod if anyone can guess who that was) way - i sent out a bunch of DVD's for about 15 members off various forums a good few months ago. All were copied fine and i did this as a favour to all to get a mad lil game thru to the public :)


I have to date paid for 1 of them that did NOT WORK and they will not investigate after promising to do so.

Copy was a copy of many as explained , and worked 100% on my own ps2 with modchip ( and the same copy worked fine on others)

They do not return PM's

I have replied to every single one , bar the latest.

They do not help with anything.

Nothing at all. I went out of my way to ship out a fair few for this game lovers and got thanks all around bar yourself due to a silly ps2 :)

They do not offer any refunds let alone assist with replacement units.

As explained.


One copy out of 15 apparently didnt work - sesshoumaru's - which i ho-humed and thought OK ill get back to this. Since it was more an issue with Sess's individual ps2 locale chips ( than the quality of the product - it worked fine on my chipped ps2 :) ) I have left this at the lower of my priorities - and i am waiting for a different version of the game on a retail NTSC disc to be "found" (on another forum).


Point is - i have been abit busy and I have replied to you but recently i havent given a toss in general about much at all so dont take offence.
( IE i am abit lazy)

I can pop a few DVD blanks or the cash back in the post if you must.
Shoot over a PM and i will be bothered to reply sicne you MUST have something back asap



Id like to see a few other members whom have intentionally ripped off others come out like this :rolleyes:

[panda[cRx]]

who cares about your farken dvd's other than poofy sess?

the point of the thread is the censorship of 'defamatory' comments

you edited the s2k service thread yet left adams untouched.

[bennjamin]

']who cares about your farken dvd's other than poofy sess?

the point of the thread is the censorship of 'defamatory' comments

you edited the s2k service thread yet left adams untouched.


Where i didnt edit either or look at either - but they are both "negative" comments against a said company / professional / individual.

As humans as we Mods apparently are ( plugs power suppling into wall) we do have perspective and opinon too. The difference between the "s2k" thread , and this other EBAY type link are in relation to geographical location and relevance methinks. (on a basic level - i could be totally wrong) The honda dealer in question is a solid business with its definite location and anything typed here could be taken very direct in court. The "ebay" link is very much a front for a loosely tied "business" with no real legal front anyway ( and also based in another country) so Adams thread is more of a general warning to reseach and be safe online :)

I dont recall ANY users reporting Adams thread as a "bad post" ? :rolleyes:

[panda[cRx]]

i can report the thread if you want me to ben :p

all i'm saying is it's very inconsistent. i think the mods need to discuss amongst yourselves your stance on this.

the ebay seller would still be a registered business (well u'd think so) so they would have the same rights as a honda dealer. so i personally don't see why kuruma motors should be treated any different to a honda dealer.

and with the whole point about the location of the 2 businesses i think warning us of bad service with a local business is more relevant as we are more likely to use them.

however i know you guys are just trying to maintain the peace and don't want any lawsuits etc and in the end what you say goes.

anyway i'm gonna shut up as bitching won't get us anway but i know a few others felt the same on this topic as me so i thought i'd speak up

oh and no need for the bold ben, i wasn't picking on you. the 'you' was reffering to mods as a whole kinda thing:thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

']
oh and no need for the bold ben, i wasn't picking on you. the 'you' was reffering to mods as a whole kinda thing:thumbsup:

Thats ok , i was just being a smartie :D


Some good points though - if I was the first mod on the scene both posts would have no obvious descriptions of the company/individual in question.

I think to make this work it has to be all posts that are aimed at unfair/bad circumstance/experiences - keep the name callign to PM and the experiences to the lounge. Users can then PM a thread creator to find out more info as per usual :)

[sesshoumaru]

Point is - i have been abit busy and I have replied to you but recently i havent given a toss in general about much at all so dont take offence.
( IE i am abit lazy)

I can pop a few DVD blanks or the cash back in the post if you must.
Shoot over a PM and i will be bothered to reply sicne you MUST have something back asap


Just to clarify things, the 'defamatory' post i constructed above was based on CTR's original defamatory post. It was moreso an effort to make a point (regarding the topic at hand), rather than resolve my own personal matters with Ben (no names were mentioned). But at least it has finally triggered a long awaited response from Ben.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

That said i don't agree with what' you've said ben, but i'll take it to PM.:rolleyes:

There are always 2 sides to EVERY story.

[wynode]

OK a few things.

Defamatory comments can be made againse an individual also, not just a business.

Agreed that there is probably some inconsistency in the editing of business names therefore as of now, until we sort this mess out we won't be allowing any threads that reflect a bad experiance. Expect the thread to simply get deleted till we finalise things.

Feel free to reply to this thread though if you have suggestions.!

[J-MuN]

As said above, why not just not allow ppl to post names of Businesses or Individuals. It would make it alot easier for everyone. If you need to know who it is, simply PM the author.

[panda[cRx]]

exactly, so why wasn't the name removed from adams ebay post. i know wyn read it

"wynode edit: never mind"

that's what the issue was, consistancy

[wynode]

Point noted Panda, and we're doing something about it :)

[panda[cRx]]

kewl
it's not like it's a huge issue that affects me personally, as stated i was just curious as to the reasoning behind it. plus it's fun to give the mods a hard time :D

[wynode]

We all need to be kept in check.......so its all good

[joneblaze]

so everyone knows - this was ME. :cool:

No , not in a bad (rip off ala mr EX mod if anyone can guess who that was) way - i sent out a bunch of DVD's for about 15 members off various forums a good few months ago. All were copied fine and i did this as a favour to all to get a mad lil game thru to the public :)


Id like to see a few other members whom have intentionally ripped off others come out like this :rolleyes:

BAHAHAHA...
Not a ripoff?
What would you call passing off no-name black springs as "Spoon" items, befriending OzHonda newbs and selling them BS parts at inflated prices (making over 300% profit), believing some ****ing bogan in QLD with no actual proof and a bullshit flawed story, sitting on the fence with any potential situation, not wanting to offend anyone and generally being a spineless Yes man who always selects the easy route?

[panda[cRx]]

come on kids keep it on topic

[type one]

I am not sure if anyone can remember my previous comments about "inconsistency" amongst moderators. I have since backed off and let it go cos there are more important things in life to worry about.

However, i think more stringent Terms and Conditions would not go astray and keeping all members "informed" about the do's and dont's and also keep the mods in line with what they are preaching. Otherwise items like this will keep coming up...

[wynode]

I am not sure if anyone can remember my previous comments about "inconsistency" amongst moderators. I have since backed off and let it go cos there are more important things in life to worry about.

However, i think more stringent Terms and Conditions would not go astray and keeping all members "informed" about the do's and dont's and also keep the mods in line with what they are preaching. Otherwise items like this will keep coming up...
Yeah...nobody is perfect so we often need reminders to keep us in check. Like I mentioned before, we are in the process of updating the T&C on the issue of defamatory posts/comments.

[Civic Type R]

Im still yet to hear back from the dishonest Ebay trader Kuruma Motoring.