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Maxx
24-07-2005, 01:58 AM
What and why
There's no substitute for displacement, except maybe technology, so in a perfect world you'd have both. If you're driving a Honda powered by the new K-series engine, there's a relatively easy way to get both. Take the big 2.4-liter block from an Element, CR-V, or Accord and mate it with the high-flow head from the K20A2 found in the RSX Type-S. It's almost that easy. Almost. This swap can be called a head swap or a block swap, depending on what you start out with and what you want to achieve. It can also be dubbed a "poor man's TSX engine." Regardless, you'll wind up with the intake and exhaust side VTEC system on top of a 2.4-liter block, and as we'll see, the marriage works.

There's VTEC, and then there's VTECHonda has used two very different VTEC systems on K-series engines. In spite of the engine's differences, both happen to be called i-VTEC. The first system, found on the K20A2 (RSX Type-S) and K24A2 (TSX) has three cam lobes for each pair of valves. At low rpm, each valve follows its own mild cam lobe. At high rpm, they both start following the third lobe, which has higher lift and more duration for better high-speed cylinder filling. This is the VTEC you're used to. The second system, found on the K24 (Element, CR-V, Accord) and the K20A3 (base RSX and Civic Si), is designed to minimize emissions and maximize driveability and gas mileage. In this system, there are two cam lobes, a normal one and a puny little atrophied one, for each pair of intake valves (nothing happens on the exhaust side). At light load and low rpm, each lobe opens one valve, so most of the intake air goes through the valve that's opened more. This creates a swirl in the combustion chamber that happens to be great for combustion efficiency. Floor it, though, and one valve won't be enough, so both valves follow the bigger lobe. Notice there's no screaming high-rpm race lobe here.

The "i" part of i-VTEC stands for VTC (don't ask us how they came up with that) the Variable Timing Control system that graces all of the K-series engines, whether they have the go-fast VTEC or the sissy model. VTC simply advances or retards the entire intake cam.

The block
K24 blocks are ready to make big horsepower numbers. The crank and rods are similar in construction to the K20A2 parts, but with beefier rods, bigger rod bearings and additional counterweights on the crank. The K20A3 engine, sourced from the base RSX and Civic Si, is built for less power and lower rpm. Honda got the extra 400cc for the K24 from both an increase in bore from 86mm to 87mm and an increase in stroke from 86mm to 99mm. The additional stroke forced a 19.7mm increase in deck height, which might only become apparent when you let the hood drop, so check those hood clearances carefully. Remember, this also means your exhaust manifold will move up 19.7mm, so make sure you have that kind of room, or prepare to make adjustments. Sales figures for the 2002-and-up CR-V, Accord and Element are already nearing a half-million, so you shouldn't need to stay glued to eBay for a chance for one. Expect to pay between $650 and $1,000 for a complete K24 engine in good condition. The K24A1 that sits in the CR-V has a 9.6:1 compression ratio, while the K24A4 found in the Element and Accord have 9.7:1. The other differences between the K24 applications, most notably the presence of EGR, used on the Accord and the Element, and a variable length intake runner system, found on the CR-V, are irrelevant since we're not using the K24 head.

Although we haven't seen any yet, it's possible Honda will come out with ultra-efficient K24s for tighter emissions standards. Keep a watchful eye out for these as they may be trimmed down (bad) for lower friction and weight. Also beware of pre-2002 CR-Vs, which had a B-series variant. You can also find the K24A2 in the TSX, and it's different enough to need its own paragraph. The TSX mill is a mixed blessing. With a 10.5:1 compression ratio and a 7100-rpm redline, it makes 200 hp (179 hp at the wheels on our dyno). To cope with the higher revs, it has stronger rods and a unique crank. It also happens to have basically the same head we're swapping on here. Sounds great, so why not just transplant the complete TSX engine? One, it's rare and expensive. Two, it comes with throttle-by-wire and an ECU that's not compatible with other K-series-powered vehicles. To make the TSX engine more "swappable," install an RSX Type-S or Civic Si intake manifold and throttle body on it. You'll have to engineer a block-off plate or plug for the EGR port on the TSX head, since it will be exposed with the new intake manifold. So the big question is: Should you buy a TSX engine if you have the chance? If you intend to stick with natural aspiration or light boost, it would be a good choice with its high compression. Additionally, the only other part you'd need to find is a short runner intake manifold. The choice boils down to what you want to do with the engine and what parts you already have.

The head
The RSX Type-S is the only North American source for the K20A2 cylinder head, so you might have to widen your search to find one in the United States. JDM engines are a good alternative. In this case, the engines we're interested in are called K20A and are found in Civic Type-Rs and Integras. They're typically shipped with a transmission (which has a limited-slip diff) and an ECU, all costing between $3,500 and $5,500. The K20A engines are trick, stuffed with pistons that will squeeze an 11.5:1 compression ratio. The cylinder head you'll wind up with is arguably better as well, utilizing longer duration intake and exhaust cams and dual valve springs on both the intake and exhaust sides, no doubt to cope with 8600-rpm blasts. Don't get the K20A2 or K20A confused with the K20A3, which is the base-model RSX engine that you'll be disappointed with if it shows up at your doorstep.

If at all possible, start with two complete engines. You'll miss out on a few important parts if you buy a K24 short block like the timing chain and timing chain cover, unique to the tall-deck K24. The same goes for the K20A2. They're nothing that a costly trip to the parts counter won't fix, but just be aware before you jump at the first K24 block that you see holding the door open at your favorite junkyard.

Mix 'n' match
Let's start at the bottom. Either of the oil pans will work, but the RSX Type-S part is cast aluminum vs. the K24's stamped-steel part. The cast pan is stiffer and braces the pan to the transmission bell housing, making it the better choice. You should also use the full-length windage tray from the K20A2, which will do a better job keeping the oil where it needs to be. The K24 uses a pair of balance shafts cleverly incorporated into the oil pump assembly ("pump holder set" in Honda-speak), but you don't need their extra weight or the friction required to turn them. Hasport recommends ditching the K24 oil pump assembly in favor of the simpler K20A2 part. The oil pump drive chain and tensioners are identical, so take your pick, or get a new one if in doubt about its condition.

You can avoid the machine shop if you don't want the oil-to-water oil cooler that's used on the K20A2. An oil cooler of some kind, however, is a good idea; at least, Honda thought it was on the RSX Type-S. The stock unit has the advantage of being able to warm the oil in cold weather. To plumb the stocker, have the K24 block machined for the coolant return line, which is right above the oil filter boss on the K20A2. Any decent machine shop can do this. You'll also need to use the K20A2 water pump since it has the coolant supply fitting for the oil cooler. Although the factory system serves its purpose, you could do just as well with a sandwich-type oil filter adaptor and a decent air/oil cooler.

On the front of the engine, the K24 timing chain, tensioner, guide and timing chain cover will be used due to the taller deck height. The K20A2 crank pulley is smaller than the K24's to keep the accessory rpm down on the higher-revving engine. Think of it as a free underdrive pulley. On top, use the K24 head gasket, which is sized for the 1mm-larger bore diameter. The head can be bolted on with either set of head bolts; they're identical.

Engine assembly
Start by stripping both engines to short blocks. There's no need to touch any of the rod or main bolts unless new pistons or a rebuild requires it. With a few exceptions, we're tucking a K24 block between all the good parts of the K20A2. As always, arm yourself with a factory service manual for assembly procedures and torque specs. Every thread in the motor is tapped in aluminum, an unforgiving material to a tyrant with a breaker bar. Begin assembly with the bottom end. Install the K20A2 pump holder set on the K24 block. Top it off with the K20A2 oil pump and oil pump drive chain. Next, install the water pump housing, using the K20A2 part if you want to retain the factory oil cooler. Hondabond is used on this joint to make the seal.

Install the K24 cylinder head gasket and lay the new cylinder head in place. It's your choice to reuse the head bolts or the gasket, but again if you're in doubt, or if you have plans for forced induction, buy new parts. Note the head bolt torquing procedure is different between used and new head bolts. Consult the manual for details. Once the head is torqued down, you can install the casting that holds the rockers, followed by the cams and the cam bearing caps. Install the K24 timing chain, tensioner and guide and replace the crank angle sensor wheel, making sure to put it on in the right direction. Cover it all up with the K24 timing chain cover (and more Hondabond to keep the oil in).

Both Hasport and its friends at Hondata have found that K-series engines heat their intake air significantly, causing issues with engine management and power output. Hondata now sells a heatshield intake manifold/cylinder head gasket to replace the factory part. It has measured intake manifold surface temperatures from 15 to 45 degrees Fahrenheit lower than stock with this gasket. If you're going to try one, it will never be easier than right now. Because of the extra deck height, the K20A2 intake manifold support bracket that stretches to the block won't quite reach. We fabricated a 19.7mm tall aluminum spacer to take up the slack. On the cheap without a lathe, you can do something similar with a stack of washers. Don't worry, we won't tell.

All of the bits that still need to go on are straight off of the K20A2, another good reason to avoid the cheap K20A2 cylinder head being used as a jackstand for your friends' del Sol. The one exception is the K24 dipstick, which is longer to reach down the taller block into the pan. Surprisingly, the stock RSX Type-S ECU will make the new K24 run well enough for grocery runs, but hard driving would be unwise. The ECU bases fuel delivery on rpm, manifold pressure, and the amount of air that it knows a K20A2 ingests under those conditions. Since it doesn't know about that extra stroke, it won't add the fuel to go with it. The timing is also optimized for 11.5:1 compression, and can now be advanced significantly for the low 9.5:1 or 9.7:1. Conveniently, Hondata offers a modified ECU the way we like 'em, plug-and-play. Just like on the Sci-Fi channel, your brain will get modified and shipped back with a USB connector on the back, along with some software that will let you tune the Honda ECU yourself. It'll also supply an assortment of base fuel and spark maps to get you started. No extra wiring, no extra sensors, no stress headaches. Well, until you start tuning it.

Free power
Sometimes we run across a mod that's so easy and effective, we wonder what kind of cost-management weenie would nix the idea. This is one of them. If they'd shipped the RSX Type-S with our hybrid, it would've been a fierce competitor, even against the turbocharged clan (beat by a Dodge...ouch). Our 2.4-liter mustered 30 lb-ft more torque across the rev range, leading to a power increase between 15 and 30 hp all the way from 2000 rpm to redline. Is this free power? Basically. The added displacement is good for more than a 25-percent increase in torque throughout the rev range, with no loss of driveability. The hybrid can even drink the cheap gas, thanks to the lower compression ratio. True, you can't impress yourself with an 8000-rpm redline, but that's a small price to pay for going faster. Using the K24 block not only adds torque, but the hybrid's lazy 9.6:1 compression ratio cries out for supernatural aspiration. And remember, it doesn't take much boost to make insane power with 2.4 liters. We like this mod because you get great results from stock parts. Especially if you already have an RSX Type-S or anything else with a K20A2 stuffed into it, you'll be hard pressed to find another bolt-on that nets as much power for the price. So the adage is correct; there is no replacement for displacement. We've just combined it with a dose of modern engineering to prove it once and for all.

Maxx
24-07-2005, 02:12 AM
http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_01_z.jpg

This K24 plucked from a CR-V gets a new wind, thanks to a K20A2 cylinder head. Naturally aspirated, it made 185 hp at the wheels. Hasport's blown version has made 275 hp at the wheels

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_02_z.jpg

The K20A2 oil pan (right) is cast aluminum for added stiffness and improved cooling. It also bolts to the transmission for added rigidity.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_03_z.jpg

The K24 (rear) has some mom-and-pop parts, shown here. A pair of balance shafts is incorporated into the oil pump for added weight and friction. It also comes with an abbreviated windage tray. Naturally, we stuck with the K20A2 parts.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_04_z.jpg

To retain the K20A2's original oil cooler, the coolant fitting above the oil filter boss on the K24 block (that's the clean one) will need to be machined to look like the K20A2 block (the oily one). This connection is the coolant return from the oil cooler.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_05_z.jpg
http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_06_z.jpg

The K20A2 water pump is on the right. The hole with the coolant dripping out is the supply for the oil cooler. There are other ways to have an oil cooler; you may want to pass on the water/oil system that Honda chose

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_07_z.jpg

Engine assembly starts with the bottom end. After the windage tray is bolted in, the oil pump and drive chain are installed.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_08_z.jpg

Hondabond is used to seal the water pump housing to the block. No gasket here. Keep the Ultra-Super-Premium RTV sealant for the leaky float bowl on your Chevy. Hasport only recommends the OEM sealant.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_10_z.jpg

To avoid an "Osbournes"-like scene after you get the engine installed, make sure the crank angle sensor wheel goes on in the right direction. Honda has not idiot-proofed this part yet.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_14_z.jpg

With a bit more Hondabond, the timing chain cover gets sealed up to the front of the engine. The taller K24 block requires the use of the K24 timing chain, tensioner, guide, timing chain cover and dipstick.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_12_z.jpg

This plastic intake manifold isolator is a trick little bit of Hondata thoughtfulness. Thermally isolating the intake manifold can drop intake air temperature a surprising amount.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_13_z.jpg

No engine swap is complete without at least one stack of washers. But Brian took the high road here and machined a 19.7mm aluminum spacer for the intake manifold support bracket.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0406_scc_hybrid_15_z.jpg


By Randy Hasson
Photography: Chris Felser

EuroAccord13
24-07-2005, 02:18 AM
Please acknowledge your sources if you did not think of all these yourself.....

And oh, nice post :)

kOncept
24-07-2005, 04:52 AM
very useful information there :thumbsup:

panda[cRx]
24-07-2005, 11:58 AM
nice read

civicboy
24-07-2005, 01:32 PM
i saw this info @ import tuner.....i think it was ?

Maxx
24-07-2005, 01:49 PM
Please acknowledge your sources if you did not think of all these yourself.....

And oh, nice post :)

i tried to, but after 15 mins copy and paste (those damn photo with explaination).
oz honda forum told me they have a limit 15000words per post and the post is 159xx, click last page, ALL THE HARD WORK GONE!!!!

anyway, the post been edited and hope u guys enjoy it

raff
24-07-2005, 08:28 PM
:thumbsup: thats a good read

Civic Type R
25-07-2005, 12:44 PM
Please acknowledge your sources if you did not think of all these yourself.....


Yes I agree.
This info is from a US forum and all the info in American. Dude you need to read it properly and edit out the RSX Type S, TSX and Si because we dont get them here. BTW The American Type S is NOT our Type S and all you are doing is confusing a lot of people.

And yeah You MUST reference the post. ;)

Paul1985
25-07-2005, 01:32 PM
thats pretty much the same as u posted Civic Type R, still a good read..

i gotta question, how much do u reckon it would cost to get a hybrid k20/k24, from purchasing the engine right up to turn-key installed in AU dollar into an EG??
what about just a k20a (integra version, not EP3)??

ballpark figures of course, i just wanna know an estimate of what it would cost

tinkerbell
25-07-2005, 01:34 PM
$12'000...

Paul1985
25-07-2005, 01:42 PM
so..
if u were to go buy a used EG for say, $7000, you could have a hybrid k20/k24 installed for approx. $12,000

so you would be paying up around the $20,000 mark all up for an EG with a hybrid k-series engine

tinkerbell
25-07-2005, 01:43 PM
yes.

you could...

but only if you did most of the work yourself...

Civic Type R
25-07-2005, 02:34 PM
thats pretty much the same as u posted Civic Type R, still a good read..

Yep thats correct :thumbsup:

Civic Type R
25-07-2005, 02:37 PM
so..
if u were to go buy a used EG for say, $7000, you could have a hybrid k20/k24 installed for approx. $12,000

so you would be paying up around the $20,000 mark all up for an EG with a hybrid k-series engine

No.

You will have an EG civic with an angine that will snap the car in half when you launch it !

Remember you will need to do all sorts of brake, chassis, fuel, suspension etc upgrades to make it work in harmony ;)

tinkerbell
25-07-2005, 02:47 PM
No.

You will have an EG civic with an angine that will snap the car in half when you launch it !

Remember you will need to do all sorts of brake, chassis, fuel, suspension etc upgrades to make it work in harmony ;)

Civic Type R - the answer to paul's question, is actually yes.

he did not ask whether it would be safe, drivable or anything else...

and i think EGK20A proved that EG's dont snap in half too easily :rolleyes:

Civic Type R
25-07-2005, 03:40 PM
yeah i agree with you and it is an obvious yes but both you and I know theres a lot more to it than just simply dropping in an engine.

tinkerbell
25-07-2005, 03:44 PM
yeah, fair point, but specifically IMO, paul's journey has taken him far enough along the road to understand that crucial point,

but it seems like it is still "ballpark" time for him...

jdmlvn
25-07-2005, 08:57 PM
good good good

Jomsy
26-07-2005, 10:26 AM
you have to admit a k24 powered eg for 20k is a fantastic idea, even if you chuck another 5k on suspension brakes and body strength, and it would easily run into the 12's over the 1/4 mile

think about lining up a wrx or 200sx in a "stock" gli civic oh yeah

bennjamin
26-07-2005, 10:55 AM
think about lining up a wrx or 200sx in a "stock" gli civic oh yeah

i think the fat slicks on the front would kinda give it away :D

Civic Type R
26-07-2005, 11:07 AM
Or someone like Yonas in the drivers seat :D

Paul1985
26-07-2005, 07:05 PM
yeah, fair point, but specifically IMO, paul's journey has taken him far enough along the road to understand that crucial point,

but it seems like it is still "ballpark" time for him...

just because i cant afford one, doesnt mean im not interested in what something like this costs, of course you have to update brakes, suspension etc, nothing wrong with wanting to learn about this engine or its costs IMO.. i am new to the k-series and am keen to learn more on it.. ive been doing a fair bit of research on it lately

btw this engine seems to sit extrememly low to the ground when swapped into an EG!! was looking at some pics just before..

i want one although its only "ballpark" time, still, theres nothing wrong with dreaming

also, it was mentioned that the chassis needs to be strengthened. In what ways?

EG5
26-07-2005, 07:21 PM
12k for the swap is VERY optimistic.

it can be done if you do all the work yourself and using stock ecu stock header stock everything.

and its very hard to run 12s without tuning and proper header in a street car.

Paul1985
26-07-2005, 07:26 PM
it seems to be a very expensive task, EG5, im lead to believe u have one.. if so, what do u think of it in an EG?

EG5
26-07-2005, 07:26 PM
EG chassis is pretty strong for its ages.


-new bushing all around
-new shocks
-new springs
-sway bars
-new hubs
-new bearings
-big brakes upgrade
-traction bar (AWESOME SHIT)
-strut tower bars
-misc etc etc

EG5
26-07-2005, 07:28 PM
it seems to be a very expensive task, EG5, im lead to believe u either have one.. if so, what do u think of it in an EG?

well our car was running stock type R k20a engine untouch. pretty freaking fast for a street car.

but we didnt cut any corners in building up this car so the cost is alomost double of whats been posted in this tread.

Paul1985
26-07-2005, 07:34 PM
well, congrats on the car and on the 12.378sec @ 109.48mph, great results :thumbsup: shows that this engine has some real potential

you know what they say.. "Do it once and do it right"
im guessing this EG isnt for street use either

EG5
26-07-2005, 07:37 PM
street register , street use , track /drag.

EG5
26-07-2005, 09:47 PM
Or someone like Yonas in the drivers seat :D

LOL

tinkerbell
27-07-2005, 10:14 AM
12k for the swap is VERY optimistic.

it can be done if you do all the work yourself and using stock ecu stock header stock everything.

and its very hard to run 12s without tuning and proper header in a street car.

yeah, shit, sorry guys, ther $12K was the figure i had been able to put together for my K20/K24 frank, but this was with very cheap engines and gearbox,

conversion price after purchase of engines an 'box was about 8000...

so add 8000 to whatever you can pick up a engine + box for...

ie a K20A half cut 8000 + K24 engine 3000 + 8000 conversion parts = $19'000 for the complete conversion into EG or DC...

oh, and this is all DIY, if you get a workshop to do it for you - forget about it...

Paul1985
27-07-2005, 12:50 PM
IMO this would be the best DIY project car if u had a lot of money to do so, id love to have the cash to do it..

i dont think these engines will drop in price any time soon either

what happened to your K20/K24 frankenstein tinkerbell?? didnt u go ahead with it?

tinkerbell
27-07-2005, 01:00 PM
what happened to your K20/K24 frankenstein tinkerbell?? didnt u go ahead with it?

marrige or conversion, marrige or conversion, marrige or conversion..

it was hard, but i chose to marry the love of my life...

"engines come and go but true love lasts forever..." LOL!

i sold most of the parts to a guy up in QLD doing a K24/K20 into an EK civic...

i think he is on ozhonda - watch this space!!!!!

nedgeworth
28-07-2005, 07:53 AM
marrige or conversion, marrige or conversion, marrige or conversion..

it was hard, but i chose to marry the love of my life...

"engines come and go but true love lasts forever..." LOL!

i sold most of the parts to a guy up in QLD doing a K24/K20 into an EK civic...

i think he is on ozhonda - watch this space!!!!!

Tony up here is doing one into a dc2. Maybe he's the one who got it from you :)

Civic Type R
28-07-2005, 02:16 PM
Yonas, how easy would it be to do a conversion like you did but into a EK gli ?
What would you need to do ?

Paul1985
01-08-2005, 03:14 PM
from what ive read, the swaps seem very similar between the EG, EK and DC2 models

EG5
06-08-2005, 03:31 PM
from what ive read, the swaps seem very similar between the EG, EK and DC2 models

correct :thumbsup:

Paul1985
07-08-2005, 09:13 PM
EG5, how did u go getting parts for this?
do u import alot from overseas or did u find a fair bit here in aus?

j0nbubz
09-08-2005, 01:05 AM
that is an excellent read - goes straight to my favourites list.. props

NTR16N
15-01-2006, 08:40 PM
sorry to dig up an old posts... but im just wanting some answers...

if i had most k20a parts...
say head... transmission.. driveline.. gearbox loom.. immobilizer and key..
is there anything else i would need from the k24 that would be useful in a build like this... or is the short block all i need??

i know tinkerbell uve passed on ur block...
but where would i be able to get one?? yonas??
and how much would i be looking at around this time??

Non Vtec
16-01-2006, 11:54 AM
get a CRV K24 and use that, the head bolts straight on..
Strong for honda have them in N.Z. for around $1800+ Gst +freight to aussie.. so maybe $2500 for a complete K24..

NTR16N
16-01-2006, 12:57 PM
so what exactly is included in that completeness??

is this the half cut minus exterior parts and panels??
long block gearbox computer etc...

or is this just the engine block itself??
and who would i be able to contact to find out about more...
prices contact details etc... is that the only place..

thanks buddy..

tinkerbell
16-01-2006, 12:59 PM
http://www.stronghonda.co.nz/

Tony
16-01-2006, 04:45 PM
so what exactly is included in that completeness??

is this the half cut minus exterior parts and panels??
long block gearbox computer etc...

or is this just the engine block itself??
and who would i be able to contact to find out about more...
prices contact details etc... is that the only place..

thanks buddy..

For around $1500 - $2000 you will only get a long block. Maybe the starter motor as well if they are willing to throw it in. The stock rods are pretty weak though, they are designed for 6500rpm redline. You might consider changing it to aftermarket rods if you want to rev it to over 7000rpm.

Here's a comparison between the stock CRV K24 rod and Cunningham forged rod (stock rod and piston came off the block I bought from tinkerbell a while ago :p ):
http://www.snc.com.au/jazz/DCK2411.jpg

epren
16-01-2006, 08:01 PM
nice comparison
it does look very thin.
nice rods bling bling :)

Non Vtec
17-01-2006, 05:54 AM
I weighed up my rods and pistons today..
K20A total weight 1015gms
K20A-2 1006gms
K20- crower rods and CP pistons 830gms..
Aftermarket is alot better..

badthing
09-10-2006, 05:40 PM
Hey guys, I've a K24a3 in my car (Accord Euro) and I plan to do something like what's mentioned here in this thread somewhere down the track next year.

I'm also thinking of doing the Hondata Euro flash stage 4 which includes custom CAI, Toda headers? & "Jtune" exhaust as well as ECU reflash & dyno tuning. Is this advisable?

There's also mention on the hondata website about K20 cams & K20 variable 50 degree cam gears. Other engine mods I'm investigating include Hondata Intake gasket, UR underdrive pulley set & Spoon TB.

stephen8512
09-10-2006, 06:55 PM
spoon TB wont fit as this is designed for the K20 euro R not the K24 euro

Maxx
09-10-2006, 07:03 PM
i thought the engine which mentioned in this thread is K20 Head + k24 bottom end???? :P

and why would you want one for the accord, they are so bloody loud for such a luxury car
just do the engine, exhaust and ECU
"maybe" very mild cam to keep the idle nice & stable, but then the power gain is not money for value

aaronng
09-10-2006, 09:06 PM
Hey guys, I've a K24a3 in my car (Accord Euro) and I plan to do something like what's mentioned here in this thread somewhere down the track next year.

I'm also thinking of doing the Hondata Euro flash stage 4 which includes custom CAI, Toda headers? & "Jtune" exhaust as well as ECU reflash & dyno tuning. Is this advisable?

There's also mention on the hondata website about K20 cams & K20 variable 50 degree cam gears. Other engine mods I'm investigating include Hondata Intake gasket, UR underdrive pulley set & Spoon TB.
If you are doing stage 4 hondata, then you won't be able to do k20a head/k24 block. Also, you'll need a standalone ECU.

badthing
02-11-2006, 12:58 AM
and why would you want one for the accord, they are so bloody loud for such a luxury car
just do the engine, exhaust and ECU
"maybe" very mild cam to keep the idle nice & stable, but then the power gain is not money for value
Yea, you're right there. I fitted Injen CAI and sometimes it's a bit loud WOT.
However, I can hear the VTEC transition at 6000rpm now! Wish the transition point is lower at 5000rpm and redline is higher.
I do it down my street every time i go home. In 2nd gear, speedo shows approx. 120kph (eyes are on the road so just roughly) and just tonight, my friend said one of the parked cars' alarm went off as I drove past.

badthing
02-11-2006, 01:09 AM
If you are doing stage 4 hondata, then you won't be able to do k20a head/k24 block. Also, you'll need a standalone ECU.

It's too much to go down the hybrid route. I'll most likely end up doing the hondata (when it gets released..already).

Thanks for pointing out the standalone ECU requirement, Mr Cat. Didn't think about that.

jpg29
22-12-2006, 01:21 AM
I read the post, but I need some clarity..
If you have an Accord with the K24 engine (i can get the 141kw Euro Accord) (the one that has vtec only on the inlet valves), and you want to replace the std. K24 head with a K20A2 head, you will need what from the K20A engine
the Head is a given :p
the Intake mani.
a stand alone engine managment unit

what was the deal with the cam gears?

is this swap woth it?

riceball
22-12-2006, 09:43 AM
Hey guys, I've a K24a3 in my car (Accord Euro) and I plan to do something like what's mentioned here in this thread somewhere down the track next year.

I'm also thinking of doing the Hondata Euro flash stage 4 which includes custom CAI, Toda headers? & "Jtune" exhaust as well as ECU reflash & dyno tuning. Is this advisable?

There's also mention on the hondata website about K20 cams & K20 variable 50 degree cam gears. Other engine mods I'm investigating include Hondata Intake gasket, UR underdrive pulley set & Spoon TB.

Just to let you guys know, you cannot straight bolt on the k24a3/4 blocks with the k20 heads. This is because of valve clearance issues.

Like Non_Vtec said before, use the CRV block, this would allow a straight bolt on to the k20a/2 head.

You can read more about k20/24 swaps here:
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13433

VTi_b0i
22-12-2006, 10:01 AM
im guessing cause the chassis now are just about 15+ years old and could tiwst etc in corners and launching? Sure it could be done, but theres a hell of a lot of work to be done, both in building the motor, fitting the motor to the EG which is by no means easy, and making sure the car can withstand the extra weight/power... not for the feint hearted...

riceball
22-12-2006, 10:23 AM
im guessing cause the chassis now are just about 15+ years old and could tiwst etc in corners and launching? Sure it could be done, but theres a hell of a lot of work to be done, both in building the motor, fitting the motor to the EG which is by no means easy, and making sure the car can withstand the extra weight/power... not for the feint hearted...

Actually, the K series motor is only a tad heavier then the B series. Approx 50kgs. If anything, the K series motor is easier to install and handling could even be better than what the B series motor can produce.

VTi_b0i
22-12-2006, 10:28 AM
Actually, the K series motor is only a tad heavier then the B series. Approx 50kgs. If anything, the K series motor is easier to install and handling could even be better than what the B series motor can produce.

k series motor easier then b-series to install? B-series is direct bolt in lol

destrukshn
22-12-2006, 10:45 AM
k series motor easier then b-series to install? B-series is direct bolt in lol
well it depends dude.
b series bolts on with the b series mounts.
the k series bolts on with the hasport mounts.
they both bolt on.
lol.
but space and stuff, it looks like the k series is easier the put in.

riceball
22-12-2006, 10:52 AM
well it depends dude.
b series bolts on with the b series mounts.
the k series bolts on with the hasport mounts.
they both bolt on.
lol.
but space and stuff, it looks like the k series is easier the put in.

:thumbsup:

HRD2BQT
23-12-2006, 01:56 PM
there's one guy in Melb who has successfully installed a K20 head on a stock bottom end K24A3 (EURO) and producing around 170kw atw (built head tho). Not jus sure of the details.

Just so you know, our K24A3 (EURO) is different to the K24A3 (ELEMENT??) in the STATES. Ours has got a 10.5:1 CR pistons and biffier rods, if Im not mistaken similar to K24A2 (TSX) from the STATES.

riceball
23-12-2006, 04:34 PM
there's one guy in Melb who has successfully installed a K20 head on a stock bottom end K24A3 (EURO) and producing around 170kw atw (built head tho). Not jus sure of the details.

Just so you know, our K24A3 (EURO) is different to the K24A3 (ELEMENT??) in the STATES. Ours has got a 10.5:1 CR pistons and biffier rods, if Im not mistaken similar to K24A2 (TSX) from the STATES.

Something i didn't know. Thanks Eoh:thumbsup:

HRD2BQT
24-12-2006, 10:07 AM
i'm just like you sang, I learn something new everyday hahahahahhaha. Got ur replacement mounts yet??

riceball
24-12-2006, 12:27 PM
i'm just like you sang, I learn something new everyday hahahahahhaha. Got ur replacement mounts yet??

Not yet, im sending them off after the xmas break. But for now im using my cousins spare mounts, so the car will be up and running again by tonight hopefully:thumbsup:

mr_vtec
04-01-2007, 11:15 AM
aye guys you dont all know but im almost done building a k24 motor and a k20 head in a delsol......(in syndey)

also my mechanic has built a k24 with k20 head in a ek and pulling out 190kw at the wheels....

just to let you know its not as expensive as you all thing just work your ass of and you will get it....

PEACE MRK24R

zco
04-01-2007, 01:02 PM
aye guys you dont all know but im almost done building a k24 motor and a k20 head in a delsol......(in syndey)

also my mechanic has built a k24 with k20 head in a ek and pulling out 190kw at the wheels....

just to let you know its not as expensive as you all thing just work your ass of and you will get it....

PEACE MRK24R
be sure to run it down the 1/4 and let us know how fast you can do :thumbsup:

honda_b_blastn
04-01-2007, 02:12 PM
post photos up of that sh#t...what internals+ specs you running?

HRD2BQT
05-01-2007, 11:25 AM
I heard about ur little project going on heheheheheh.

I bliv u referring to DR HONDA's EK. Since when it made 190kw? As far as i know his IM is restricting him badly on pulling to 160kw. If he ever went ahead with his ITB plan then yes 190kw is achievable :) - Dr Honda is very helpful, he always answers my questions and he sure have extensive knwoledge about hondas.

basic k24/20 frank is cheap yes but once us start upgrading all the internals thats when it becomes costly and if its not done properly - u cud end up spending more than you can ever imagine. And it's the miscellaneous stuff that makes this swap exxy such as:

Mounts, Harness, Intake,Headers, Exhaust, Clutch, Fly, ECU & Fuel Lines alone will cost u around 6G's already.

Anyway, goodluck with ur project and keep us posted.


aye guys you dont all know but im almost done building a k24 motor and a k20 head in a delsol......(in syndey)

also my mechanic has built a k24 with k20 head in a ek and pulling out 190kw at the wheels....

just to let you know its not as expensive as you all thing just work your ass of and you will get it....

PEACE MRK24R

Twincam16
08-01-2007, 04:20 PM
Conversion is done for those still interested.

One question that has been brought up a few times. Revving to 8200rpm redline. Im guessing it would be a problem with the K24 bottom end and reliability could be an issue for this type of motor without having the bottom end strengthened. How bad though? Unreliable as in the car will not last 2 years, or 2 days? With standard everyday driving.

Ie. how much abuse can this setup take before it goes boom?

tinkerbell
09-01-2007, 08:46 AM
twincam16 - your question does not specify which K24 you are referring to.

the Euro one is stronger than the CRV one...

PS - my B20VTEC revs to 8300rpm and has over 20'000km on it...

similar scenario as the K24/20...

Twincam16
09-01-2007, 02:43 PM
Stronger as in stopping at pistons/rods or is crank/block different? Im guessing the weight of the crx bottom end internals is the issue, and sustained high rpm with heavier parts generally means an easier malfunction. Lets say block is CRV (cost reasons). So, If I were to buy the euro block & change pistons/rods, and do same to crv block instead? Would the end result of both be identical? (ie. crank/block/sleeves + aftermarket pist/rods)

Your b20, has it had bottom end worked? Ie basics, pistons/rods/crank swapped for lighter/forged items as im thinking of switching b20 block over from current b16a block...

tinkerbell
09-01-2007, 02:55 PM
the Euro block has stronger features, like larger crank girdle, to help it rev to over 7000rpm from factory...

but still, read up on here:

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13433&highlight=tsx+block

there is plenty of discussion from people who have actually done it. not dreamed it.


OT: 99% stock bottom end on my B20, only modification is baffled sump and $45 worth of ARP rod bolts...

i also enlarged the valve reliefs on the pistons myself (with a Dremel), this is a difficult part and some say not necessary if using mild camshafts with no adjustable cam gears...

tinkerbell
09-01-2007, 02:57 PM
BTW - the K24/20 issue is "piston speed" vs RPM...

[200]
22-01-2007, 09:38 PM
Would there be any problem using a K24A1 block from the states? Out of a Jap 2002 CR-V?

Mrrevolution
23-01-2007, 12:24 AM
Maybe someone who knows can provide a list of k24 blocks from certain cars which can be used, to make it simplier.

qstoria
23-01-2007, 07:11 AM
for all the effort is it really worth the extra .400cc as apposed to just using the k20a or k20a2 block?

[200]
23-01-2007, 08:03 AM
Thats the whole purpose of the exercice though. 400cc's makes a difference, espically when using forced induction.

Its why people use an RB30 block on a RB26 head.

K24A1
- From Honda CR-V
- Most favourable

K24A2
- From Accura TS-X and RSX Type-S
- Rare and expensive
- Throttle-by-wire
- ECU that's not compatible with other K-series-powered vehicles
- A lot of work for similar results using the K24A1
- Good for N/A or light boost applications due to slightly higher comp. ratio but extra parts are needed on top of K24A1

K24A3
- From Honda Accord
- EGR valve?


K24A4
- From Honda Accord and Honda Element
- EGR valve?

sendok
06-05-2008, 07:33 PM
K24A1 bottom with K20A head is the cheapest way to do this hybrid... but still mounts, harness, loom, ecu, intake, etc. will cost on top...

K24A1 from CRV best for fully rebuild inside..

And K24A3 from Accourd Euro... is more expensive for sure...

LUD35
06-05-2008, 07:43 PM
mehhh

DR HONDA
06-05-2008, 08:27 PM
I heard about ur little project going on heheheheheh.

I bliv u referring to DR HONDA's EK. Since when it made 190kw? As far as i know his IM is restricting him badly on pulling to 160kw. If he ever went ahead with his ITB plan then yes 190kw is achievable :) - Dr Honda is very helpful, he always answers my questions and he sure have extensive knwoledge about hondas.

basic k24/20 frank is cheap yes but once us start upgrading all the internals thats when it becomes costly and if its not done properly - u cud end up spending more than you can ever imagine. And it's the miscellaneous stuff that makes this swap exxy such as:

Mounts, Harness, Intake,Headers, Exhaust, Clutch, Fly, ECU & Fuel Lines alone will cost u around 6G's already.

Anyway, goodluck with ur project and keep us posted.

Thanks i try to advise people who like to be advised. K Swap is certainly the way to go. 180kw atw is achevable in a N/A setup k with standard IM with the right twisted arse tuner (i hope the new owner has life insurance as going into a lotus elise:eek:). Weather its usable power its another story. K Building is fun but also very tricky as you can also go backwards quite easily. There are so many k experts out there that i need not comment further.
P.S K24A1 stock internalled short motors are junk.