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OldnGrey
01-08-2005, 07:06 PM
Hi,
My 2004 Euro manual is approaching the 20K service. I was interested to read here about the creaking clutch pedal so that certainly gets reported. Thanks.

However, the other issue I have that spoils an otherwise excellent car is some surging at very low accelerator pedal pressure. I've seen it mentioned here once and in one review on the internet. It's hard to explain or do a google search on it because it's not something easy to describe.

At no accelerator pedal pressure it's smooth. At moderate to high acceleration it's fine. It's just that first tiny amount of throttle opening when the car starts surging sometimes badly. Noticeable in all gears but obviously would be worse in 1st gear. Turning off aircon and VSD have no effect. This has nothing to do with clutch or gearchanges as it's even noticeable on cruise control when going down a slight hill. Get the right slope and it starts surging.

I took it to my local Honda dealer who witnessed the problem (only when warmed up). They said they would do some research. After some time my wife rang to book another Honda in for a service and asked about my problem. They said they had since confirmed it in other manual Euros.

OK. So it appears from reading these forums that they might all do it. To what extent I don't know but my Honda dealer has said they can do nothing.

Here's the appeal - is there anyone who has got this fixed or made some mod that smooths out the problem? Is there a mechanic somewhere who has more knowledge and skill than my local dealer?

Would be interested in the responses. I have been getting progressively more annoyed with the issue and can't seem to drive it in stop-start freeway traffic at all peacefully.

SSML
01-08-2005, 08:06 PM
from my knowledge, Euro is "Drive by wire" i.e. the depth of gas input is sensed by the computer (rather than thru a cable),then send message to fuel injector?.
So would your problem got something to do with the computer program?

yfin
01-08-2005, 08:41 PM
This is how it was explained to me by my dad (a retired old school motor mechanic). "New model cars can use little or no fuel (yes he did say no fuel) with zero throttle. When you apply the accelerator the injectors start working again".

That is why you can get the slight jerk when a small amount of throttle is applied. It helps fuel efficiency to cut out fuel where there is no throttle. Don't worry about it - if you apply more throttle it is less noticeable.

euro1978
02-08-2005, 12:45 PM
My understanding is that its a feature not a fault.

A rather annoying feature sometimes I must add. (Mine does it as well)

OldnGrey
02-08-2005, 10:48 PM
I wonder if there are any tuners who can do anything with the ECU? I doubt it.

It's probably not like with the WRX where I was able to get a new tune map after doing some data logging to a laptop.

I fear I am stuck with this and I suppose it's fair reward for me only test driving an automatic which didn't show this problem. 2 more years of this and I know I will be taking my Odyssey to work for a relaxing trip.

If I buy another Honda it will be after a lot of suspicion. This was my 6th Accord and this is the first time I have ever had a problem.

yfin
02-08-2005, 10:57 PM
I am quite happy if people do not buy the Euro based on this thread. The less Euros on the road the better! At least I know I have a great car. :D

To suggest this is such a major issue that you should look at other cars really surprises me. There are so many other things I would like to improve on the Euro before this (wish list of improvements - mp3 connection! etc). This just doesn't rate.

If it really bothers you why not apply the throttle very slowly? I tried it this evening sitting at a constant 100kph. If you apply and HOLD a fraction of the throttle (just touching) for a few moments - then apply the throttle you want (eg 50%) - it will not jerk.

OldnGrey
02-08-2005, 11:06 PM
yfin: I can only suggest that perhaps it's not a consistent problem across all cars.
In freeway traffic snarls it's quite violent in mine.

yfin
02-08-2005, 11:15 PM
yfin: I can only suggest that perhaps it's not a consistent problem across all cars.
In freeway traffic snarls it's quite violent in mine.

I know exactly what you mean and I think it is the same in all Euros.

I lived with it for well over 12 months before someone complained about it on this forum. I had not noticed it until then (perhaps because I am rarely at light throttle). I think it is most noticeable when cruising in 6th and you only want to accelerate by a few k/ph.

Seriously though - practice different throttle applications. The way I tried it this evening appeared to work. Very slight application - say 1% for a few moments and then apply more throttle.

aaronng
03-08-2005, 12:12 AM
I only get the jerkyness in 1st at the point where the injectors just turn on. Now I keep it at about 2000rpm in 1st to avoid the jerkyness, or just shift to 2nd or 3rd for low speed cruising, so this is not really a problem for me.

euro1978
03-08-2005, 08:49 AM
I am quite happy if people do not buy the Euro based on this thread. The less Euros on the road the better! At least I know I have a great car. :D



I know exactly what you mean. I bought mine in June/July 2003 when they first came out and it was nice to have something unique but now there are so many on the road.

Damn all you followers. ;)

ant234
03-08-2005, 09:32 AM
i'm not too sure whats the problem... since I haven't experienced it myself... maybe my foot is a little too 'heavy' :D

yfin
03-08-2005, 09:37 AM
i'm not too sure whats the problem... since I haven't experienced it myself... maybe my foot is a little too 'heavy' :D

It is there - and if you haven't noticed it don't worry about it! As soon as you start looking for it - you will find it and it might bug you like OldnGrey and some other people.

OldnGrey - I tried that method I was talking about cruising on the freeway to work today. Give it a try and let us know if it works for you. You can effectively limit any jerk by the way you apply the throttle. I have noticed if you apply 10% throttle instantly you will definately notice a little jerk -- apply much less throttle (just touching) and then progressively add power and no jerk at all.

ant234
03-08-2005, 09:47 AM
Yes true... once I start looking for it actively, it will becoming an annoyance...
just like what everyone is saying abt a slight buzz sound between the door panels... it is sooo apparent with the new Maria Carey's song OMG! what made it worse is my gf loves that song ;/ so we listened to that song (and the buzz) for hours in the long drive to melb!

also the slight creak sound when you depress the clutch is annoying too...

and I only had it for 3 weeks, 2400km! :(

nEUROtic
03-08-2005, 10:15 AM
You big girls :P Just put your foot down!

aaronng
03-08-2005, 10:50 AM
Yes true... once I start looking for it actively, it will becoming an annoyance...
just like what everyone is saying abt a slight buzz sound between the door panels... it is sooo apparent with the new Maria Carey's song OMG! what made it worse is my gf loves that song ;/ so we listened to that song (and the buzz) for hours in the long drive to melb!

also the slight creak sound when you depress the clutch is annoying too...

and I only had it for 3 weeks, 2400km! :(
You have a slight creak in your clutch pedal? Check out the "Creaking Clutch Pedal" thread.

Adagio
05-08-2005, 08:47 AM
The following is my conclusion to the same problem you and many others have :- Thanks everyone, especially Slinky, for all the input regarding this slight throttle problem these Euro Accords have. After e-mailing a further response from another Accord owner to my Honda Dealership I have just received a phone call from them. The matter has gone as far as Japan and it is acknowledged that this syndrome does exist. It is all to do with the fact that everything now is digital on Hondas and with the ‘Fly-By-Wire” throttle it is either absolutely OFF or absolutely ON thus causing an initial jerk when applying an input to the throttle. It seems that this is currently incurable in a performance engine such as the iVtec one in Honda Euro Accords. So we have a CONCLUSION. I am not the inept driver that was inferred by all and sundry at Honda. I now feel vindicated and think my point has been made.

euro1978
05-08-2005, 11:57 AM
Thanks for info Adagio.

The response from Honda is a little disappointing as I have driven other performance cars that have drive by wire and do not exhibit the same sort of problem. It seems honda is not at the forefront of drive by wire technology.

I haven't thought about this much as I have had my car for over 2 years but I did feel strongly about it a the start and never saw any recourse, selling my vehicle notwithstanding.

This problem does annoy me especially after hopping out of a modfied Sti and s15 200sx I bought the euro wanting to stop spending all my cash on cars. I thought the euro would be a good compromise as it drove beautifully in auto but I feel the drive by wire system which also affects any attempt to shift gears in a manner I was accustomed to in my previous cars has dulled the experience significantly in the manual version.

This was further evidenced when a friend brought the integra type s around for me to drive being newly purchased.

I realise that the intended market for this car is different, but the difference is chalk and cheese. The type S gearbox is everything the accord should have been. It was a beautiful car to drive, much nicer than the accord I am afraid.

I am the first to say that the accord is not a 'performance car' but I also drove only the auto before I bought it and had I have driven the manual, I may have reconsidered.

Good to know someone else has similar views.

nEUROtic
05-08-2005, 12:06 PM
I like the surging. Sitting in traffic it takes off but when u get off the accelerator the car brakes quite well. You can basically accelerate and brake in really slow moving traffic without having to use the brakes.

euro1978
05-08-2005, 12:10 PM
I like the surging. Sitting in traffic it takes off but when u get off the accelerator the car brakes quite well. You can basically accelerate and brake in really slow moving traffic without having to use the brakes.

Mate, talk about a glass half full kind of guy.

:thumbsup:

Just remember in a manual its a different story as you have a clutch pedal to operate as well.