Legal issues concerning an engine swap into civic.

[91OOM]

Hi guys,

I own a 1999 Civic Hatch.

My plans where to put either a b16a or b18c into it. But just earlier on today actually whilst browsing these forums I noticed that it is illegal to put an engine that is older then the chassis.
Now I know in 2000/2001 integras changed to k20a's. But civic's kept b16a. Still it's going to be hard and expensive i gather to find either a b16a or b18c that is 1999+.

Could I get away with putting in say a 1996 early model b16a or something into it, and not get caught with all sorts of legal issues?
Could I lie about it and stuff?

I'm scared. :(

[**Ghost**]

engines come with a "plate" as faras i know that identifies the engine and year it was made... dont know if u can change that around....

btw if u own a hatchy, u shouldnt bother with a b16A swap mate... money wise it'd be the same to go for a real vtir... b18c is a diff story tho... just an opinion...

if ur DYING for a EK hatch with dohc vtec wot about selling ur car, buying a 1996 ek3 and then putting in an engine? u'd actually make some dosh from it cos u can buy the highets km nastiest condition hatchy u can possibly fine then rip it apart

[91OOM]

Just to clear a few things up.

1. Selling my car is NOT an option, im keeping my car and so thats one of the thing's i've got to work around.

2. I want to put the b16a in or a b18c.

Im going to go to 'asian auto spares' in slacks creek tomorrow (brisbane), and ask them if they could find a 1999 b16a halfcut or something. If you know of any other halfcut importers around brisbane that i should go to please tell me. :)

Im still intrested in what legal problems i'd encounter, if i where to put a b16a or b18c that is older then my chassis.

Nick

[tRipitaka]

u'll encounter the same problems as any other unroadworthy car would..

[91OOM]

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly would these problems be...

I don't know much about australia's car law's and stuff.

[**Ghost**]

i would say that the moment u get defected and u have to go to QLD-Roads (or woteva the road authority is called) u'll get ur car impounded and/or u wont be able to register it for road use

same thing happened to my mate's rx-3... it had a 20B in it... got defected...went to the road authorites who said his brake's were too small for the power... wouldnt let him get a rego and confiscated hsi number plate until he could drive back with bigger brakes

its a BITCH man... he had to tow his car to the mechanic, couldnt even drive it there

[CTR Coupe]

I’d call the RTA in your state. explain that you engine died and that you own a rare car and can only find engines that are older than your car(don't tell them its a honda civic). Tell them it’s a 99 model car and you can only find a 96 or 97 model engine etc. see how you go. It’s the only way you’re going to know for sure. If you’re pushed for what car it is. Tell them it’s a European import from Italy or get creative. Just don’t say it’s Japanese or it’s a Honda civic. If you tell them anything like your modifying the car etc the will just try to make it hard for you. Try to get the person to feel that they want to help you and that you’re not a “hoon”

[joonix]

Could I get away with putting in say a 1996 early model b16a or something into it, and not get caught with all sorts of legal issues?
Could I lie about it and stuff?


No, and No. Black and white issuse.

Your one and only option is to find an engine with the a build date equal to or younger then your car.


There is no way around this (and for good reason).

[91OOM]

Alright thankyou guys for helping me.
I must stay positive, do my research and find a suitable engine.

If anyone would like to give me address's/phone numbers of any Brisbane engine importers, that would be great. I already know of 'asian auto spares'.

Cheers.

[poid]

check with the relevant authorities...you may be able to get away with a 96+ engine if it can be shown that the emissions equipment is the same (as both should be OBD2 i reckon you could do this)

[Steer^Gimic]

to be honest i dont think there is a way around it. not often you see 99+ civics with swaps because of this problem. and i doubt ringing RTA and explaining your situation nicely will do anything.

at the end of the day they couldnt give a shit what you do with your car, a law is a law

[aimre]

turbo?

[poid]

to be honest i dont think there is a way around it. not often you see 99+ civics with swaps because of this problem. and i doubt ringing RTA and explaining your situation nicely will do anything.

at the end of the day they couldnt give a shit what you do with your car, a law is a law

i think thats more to do with misinformation about what the laws state can and cant be done to be honest (and by misinformation i also mean from places like the RTA and engineers who simplify it down to "engine must be the same year".). I thought the engine same year or greater was the case also, but here is a quote from the NSW RTA:


Emission standards for replacement engines
1972 and later model vehicles with substitute engines must meet the intent of the later of the Australian Design
Rules applicable to either:

a) the original vehicle; or
b) the substitute engine.

To ensure continued compliance with emission standards, any replacement engine should come from a vehicle which is subject to the same or more stringent emission control requirements. An alternative is for an earlier engine to be upgraded during reconditioning to more recent engine specifications. All anti-pollution devices should be fitted and functional.

Vehicles manufactured prior to noise and/or exhaust emissions related ADRs must meet certain minimum noise and emission requirements if the engine modification is to such an extent as to require certification by an engineering signatory. Engineering signatories will be able to give you more information about these requirements.

Notice it talks about complying to the same emissions criteria, and doesnt specify the build date of the engine as a requirement. So i would suggest finding a reputable engineer and having it all explained. As far as i can see, as long as you meet ADR 37/01 you should be fine. Which makes sense to me, it should be the only requirement for compliance.

[xtercii]

Find an AUDM ITR cut, and you will have no trouble.

[EG5]

audm itr or a 99-00spec b16b would be easier to find than getting a 99+ b16a.

[Z]

Just dont get caught and you wont have an issue.

[Encor3]

audm itr or a 99-00spec b16b
audm itr woudln't that be b18cr? not b16b i thought b16b was civic type r

[jackosimm]

Just dont get caught and you wont have an issue.

lol unless you have the ultimate sleeper look going, this will be hard

[91OOM]

We'll yeah it's already not looking like a sleeper so yeh. :P

Just a question guys,

How expensive would it be to rebuild a b16a which has done 250,000k and has ****ed piston rings. How much would it cost all up to just rebuild with (forgies), and also without forged internals. Just to compare.

[CTR Coupe]

to be honest i dont think there is a way around it. not often you see 99+ civics with swaps because of this problem. and i doubt ringing RTA and explaining your situation nicely will do anything.

at the end of the day they couldnt give a shit what you do with your car, a law is a law

Yes but if your nice to them they are more likely to help you rather than just shut you down outright.

Every time I call the RTA about an issue I usually get different response to the same question. some people want to help you some dont.

EDIT: oh look poid finally proved what i was talking about all this time.

[tRipitaka]

taken from VICROADS FAQ (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/rdsafe/VSI%2020.pdf)

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8234/vicroads9op.jpg

i guess each state is different, so make sure u call up your local RTA and confirm..

[rAySiR]

audm itr woudln't that be b18cr? not b16b i thought b16b was civic type r
that's correct... if you read his post, he said or a b16b.... not audm itr has a b16b engine....

i think nas would know the diff out of all ppls

[Z]

To do it legally, yes- same age or newer. But to believe that everyone out there with an engine swap has an engine the same age/newer than the chassis would be naive. When it comes down to it, unless its RTA/EPA or something along those lines, the average shmuck cop isnt going to know D-series/B-series from a packet of peanuts.

[s3ph]

i agree...

and thanks for the answers.. it has helped me also.

[jdmcivic]

it thinkl as long as you get a engineer cert you should be fine