QBALL's 100% Completed YO :)

[Q_ball]

Hey Guys and Gals,

Just thought i'd share the latest with ya on me on going saga with my car :)
It was finally fine-tuned in Newcastle on friday and produced the MAX power for the 12psi and 15 psi settings.
Car can handle more, but i decided to get used to it 1st, b4 riding off my car ;)
Here are the power sheets for the 12psi and the 15 psi settings.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/q_ball/My%20Car/Dyno1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/q_ball/My%20Car/Dyno2.jpg

I'd like the personally thank my mate MOJO, who is on these forums, and to the whole team at Nova Auto Innovations.

The next challenge is Auto Salon this coming weekend in Newcastle where i shal be competing in the Dyno Comp in the 4 cylinder fw category, and also the street sound off.
Oh, and WSID ;)

Cheers,
Qball

[Felix]

Good to hear QBall.
Figures are very impressive. Would like to see a quarter time.

[Boost]

Goddam.. thats awesome mate!.. Congrats.

[Chi]

come on G ball u can go to 30 psi!!

Be a MAN !!!

DO THE RIGHT THING !

[fabz]

thats mad congrats :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[2MPRSS]

clap clap clappppppp woohoooo g balll thats tha sheyt

[Teggy-Vtir]

well done Qball =)
great power figure

[locote]

whats next Q,
is that on a stock bottom end??
what compresion u using to run this power?
you got LSD??

[Q_ball]

compression i believe is around the 8:1 mark
LSD, none LOL - but will be investing in one soon...mayb
im drag orientated at the moment so its not a main priority
brakes and sussy are :D

[locote]

with that sort of power i think youl get low 12s,
your using a t3 right??

[locote]

stock conrods??

[Q_ball]

^ t3/t4 hybrid highflow

[faijai]

dats bloody awesome man!
im happy happy for u LA
good shiet!
looming forward to seeing the gayball in action at WSID very very soon!!

[lerroy]

congrats man
some great number looks like the time and effort have paid off

good luck at autosalon probably see you there

[locote]

kool.
tunning??
im buying the turbonetics kit in bout 3 months.
just wanna c what turbo to get im looking at same power as you.
thats awsome power!!!

[JDM.Power]

well done Q_ball.
what you expecting to run 1/4mile?

[Q_ball]

^quarter im estimating a low 12, hopefully break through to the 11s
the guy that tuned it in Maitland, who drives drag cars etc, said that i should be able to get mid 11s with a good launch and tyres.
im jst keen to thang it down the creek as it is and see wat i pull :)

[stephen8512]

good shit Gball!!!
now, next step is to NOT CRASH THE DAMN THING!!!!!!
now i know honda owners tend to get a lil rev happy once a turbo has been whacked in but keep it clean y0!
:thumbsup:

[|N|]

good shit Gball!!!
now, next step is to NOT CRASH THE DAMN THING!!!!!!
now i know honda owners tend to get a lil rev happy once a turbo has been whacked in but keep it clean y0!
:thumbsup:

the focker has no lic yet... so i m sure it ll be cool for now

[Q_ball]

nick la, shhh :p

[LAGOOT]

congrats quentin :thumbsup:
great figures!

[dc2dc2dc2]

gball = gangster.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

it aint a car no more...its a bloody rocket or flying saucer LOL

congrats man!

[hong_ung]

YO q-tip
come down to WSID this wednesdai
should be sweet

[|N|]

well done gaytin....no offence to anyone but not many gay ppl likes to do up their car....

[yourfather]

Can't wait to turbo my car now.

Look at those figures, 200 kw ~ say what!
Bet you can't wait to blow past those SS Bombadore's

[BLKCRX]

Turbo all the way... ;)
Welcome to the boost world ;)

[yourfather]

James, Q-Ball said he's running a T3/4 hybrid, would you say that's probably the most popular set up for street applications? and if so, what brands make this size... I'm not too cluey, sorry to hijack.

[BLKCRX]

What is a t3/t4 hybird turbo ! lol
Its funny how you see people mention it all the time ;)

What makes a turbo is specific elements.

You need to know the exhaust flange, ( ok in this case t3 is the exhaust flange) t25 t28 t3 t4
You need to the know exhaust housing size (ar) something like .4, .5, .63, .7, .82, .9, 1.1 etc
You need to know the intake housing size, (ar) something like .60, .70, .80
You need to know what core, what bearings
You need to know what exhaust wheel
You need to know what intake wheel


You could have 100’s of the above combinations and it would still be called a t3/t4 turbo
So unless things are listed specifically you can’t make a generalized comment. All my turbo’s that I sorce are custom made to specification mixing and matching the correct wheels with the correct core with the correct housing for the application at hand. Choosing the correct turbo is the most important part of any turbo setup.

As for Q balls turbo my knowledge and experience from the attached dyno graph is something is wrong, the turbo or something else has already reached its maximum limit. Could be the turbo, could the the manifold, could be the compression, could be the cooler, could be almost any part of the setup, but instinct says the turbo.

Making an extra 14.8kw from running an extra 4 psi of boost shows around 12psi is the optimal point of this current turbo setup. I most certainly wouldn’t run a extra 4psi for a extra 14kw, why stress the engine out so much ;) for so little gains

Regards James

[|N|]

I most certainly wouldn’t run a extra 4psi for a extra 14kw, why stress the engine out so much ;) for so little gains

Regards James

ahhh.. good point....

[yourfather]

Ok then, I know this is not Q&A james, but a pat Q-Ball on the back thread,

But lets say you wished to build a DC2 VTi-R that would be a daily driver, but would easily school XR8's and SS commodores.

What kind of package would you look at,

assuming that we're using the HONDATA ecu.

What kind of manifold, wastegate (tial or hks obv, cuz apparently they are by far the most reliable and best performance), intercooler, turbo etc, would you buy,

Usually, you say custom and so forth, but when reading the Q&A sections and bang for buck threads where Adrian from TODA, they say, buy an entry level turbo kit, like GReddy -

What would be what you would use?

And lets not get too crazy with the budget, just something that's reliable, can put 50,000 dollar cars to shame for less than half the price.

[yourfather]

also, 2.5" down pipes, to keep air conditioning, or 3" all the way through?

[Q_ball]

mines actually a 3" dump pipe, air con....GONE SON!!

[yourfather]

yeah, only girly men need air conditioning. my girlfriend started bugging me to put it on today when it was only 23 degrees !!! crazy

[BLKCRX]

Ill reply via PM to keep this tread clean ;) but in short all your answers depend on how much money you want to spend....Come see me at the workshop, or just call me on 0417 875 785 if you require technical information or help

PS i wrote that bang for ya buck thread also eheh have a read of it a lot of your answers are on there and read the links to my hondatech fourms


Regards James

[yourfather]

okie, awaiting PM eagerly :)) :)) :)) :))

[ONV73C]

Nice stuff Q!!!

can't wait to see it at WSID :D

[Weq]

nice result mate. looks like that turbo produces a nice big power curve at 12-3psi.. i love thick graphs like that, much nicer the peaky! cant wait to run it!

edit: james says mismatched, i say perfectly matched (if that was ur final power goal). ;)

[anna1984]

wow.. quite impressive Q!!
goodluck wit autosalon budie =)

[saxman]

compression i believe is around the 8:1 mark
LSD, none LOL - but will be investing in one soon...mayb
im drag orientated at the moment so its not a main priority
brakes and sussy are :D
wait... you're drag oriented so an lsd ISN'T a priority?

you do realize that an lsd will help you get better times in drag racing...

[Tu88y]

mines actually a 3" dump pipe, air con....GONE SON!!


You never had one to start off with
hehehe


well done gaytin....no offence to anyone but not many gay ppl likes to do up their car....

Thats true
:D :D

[HRV-80Y]

GAYBALL ! WSID BROOoooOOOo ! ill b dere if ur going !

[BLKCRX]

edit: james says mismatched, i say perfectly matched (if that was ur final power goal). ;)

For his current setup on 12psi I would agree saying its matched perfectly. But in his previous posts he wanted to run 25psi at 9500rpm. From the attached dyno graph this most certainly isn’t matched correctly, and the turbo is running out of puff, also his cam’s seem to be running out of puff also, with peak power being made at around 7000rpm (estimate) and dieing off at 8000rpm) but yeah for what it is.. its fine.



Regards James

[fly_vti]

sorry gballs im not impressed....

[ITRBoI]

want to take it down the drag, without LSD??? and hoping doing mid 11 or low 12's??? hmmmmm.....i'll say goodluck, but congrats on the power figure really good!!! Only saying this cause of my pass exp, when i have a 20V corolla with T4 turbo and LSD and only got high 11's down the 1/4 mile. =).

So Q when am i getting to see this machine of yours in person? hehaeha

[notorious_ahmie]

good shiet Q..imma try and come to newcastle if i can get the day off work lol

[Integra]

god daym thats a beast i wasnt expecting that much power.. congrats mate (Y)

[[stealth]]

nice figures... wouldve expected more with stronger internals tho...

[joyride]

200kw great stuff.
can i ask how much torque at what rpm?

[NTR16N]

holy... shietz... hahaha thats great man!! :thumbsup:

its been a while but lets all go down and see these bad ass turbo hondas at WSID... were becoming so USDM... but i aint complaining :D

good luck!!

[Weq]

For his current setup on 12psi I would agree saying its matched perfectly. But in his previous posts he wanted to run 25psi at 9500rpm. From the attached dyno graph this most certainly isn’t matched correctly, and the turbo is running out of puff, also his cam’s seem to be running out of puff also, with peak power being made at around 7000rpm (estimate) and dieing off at 8000rpm) but yeah for what it is.. its fine.



Regards James

noted. no way that turbo is gonna push 25psi efficently. and i dont think the head config could flow it anyways.

[string]

noted. no way that turbo is gonna push 25psi efficently. and i dont think the head config could flow it anyways.
The head could push whatever flow you wanted it to. The fact remains that to spool to 25psi you will be pushing 5.5krpm or so, leaving you at peak volumetric efficiency of the stock LS head with stock cams, at which you will really drop off in torque to a near negligible level at low 7000rpm.

There is absolutely no way in hell you could rev a stock head LS to 9000 let alone 8000 rpm, the torque drop off after 5000 really bends you over. A fast straight LS has a good midrange leading to top end. You really can't expect it to rev like a vtec motor and keep breathing that high.

The best thing you could do is find a cheap B16A head and slap it on, and rev to low 8000 with a little more boost. Second to that, find a big cam, upgrade valve train, port big, then get a big turbo and live with a bit of lag, and a potentially choppy idle.

Keeping non-vtec is more manly, but probably not the best or cheapest option in the long run.

Until then, enjoy your 215kw. I don't know what tyres you run, but on something like Falken Azenis (which are quite cheap if you wanna run some steelies :D) I'm going to estimate high 12's to low 13's.

I saw your car at Nova a few times; Saw them painting the block; Damn it looks shiny in the sun haha.

Look forward to seeing your car on the dyno at Autosalon this weekend.

Goodluck :thumbup:

[fly_vti]

gballs, you might not have any competition now, but when i get my next teg. look out sunshine :P

[nobbs]

nice figured quentin, hopefully u get the times ur after

and see u in newcastle!!

[locote]

why would you worry about hitting past 7000rpm when your putting out that much power???
not to mention the torque!!!
the less you have to rev before you come on power the quiker you are.

[Q_ball]

its actually not reving out to 9k as previously stated, because the power starts declining at 7k, so thers no point beating the bush any more...
LSD i was told, may actually slow me car down on the drag strip, so i dunno, i always intended on gettin one b4 i was told this...so i dunno, dunno much bout em.
i totally agree with the guys that were saying that 15 is as high as i can push it for now, due to the current set up, however the engine is good for 20psi.
the tuner actually said to me that i shouldnt go past 15 for now, so im gona take his advice.
once im used to, and 'bored' of 12-15 psi, then ill modify the setup to run more power and boost through it efficiently.
for now, im completely wrapped about the way it performs...the pull and feelin of it at full boost is unbelievable for a fwd car!!
in regards to changing the head, i was thinkin b18c head rather than a b16a...
wats the difference??

[DaPlaya]

200rwkw is a great achievement for 12psi IMO...

[JDM.Power]

^quarter im estimating a low 12, hopefully break through to the 11s
the guy that tuned it in Maitland, who drives drag cars etc, said that i should be able to get mid 11s with a good launch and tyres.
im jst keen to thang it down the creek as it is and see wat i pull :)


wow nice mid11s
should race my brother 32 GTR at WSID!!

[Q_ball]

200rwkw is a great achievement for 12psi IMO...
thats fw kw ;) hehe

[mj3610]

just swap ur front wheels with ur back ones and u'll have FWKW ;)

[string]

why would you worry about hitting past 7000rpm when your putting out that much power???
not to mention the torque!!!
the less you have to rev before you come on power the quiker you are.
Well, i'm not sure who told you that information but it is quite ambiguous and general.

If you can hold torque while still revving higher, your power output will only increase. Thats the beauty of the VTEC heads. They hold torque, even with high boost and make great power up high because of this. The LS head just wasn't designed for this.

I only mentioned the B16A head because they are generally a lot cheaper and easier to find than a B18C (GSR) head. You will make far more power on the GSR head as the port designs conveniently work very well for FI applications. Also, the GSR cams yeild a little more power in boost than the B16A cams in the same head.

You've allready got the bottom end ready to rev high and make big power, why not finish the job and upgrade the top :D

[Q_ball]

wats this LS head u keep mentioning?? u from the states??

[TECBOY]

dear gaytin....
congrats on ya car man, im happy for ya. its true, the pull at full boost is enuf to scare most people. I think anymore power will b much much harder than it is already to put to the ground. As it is, it is freakin fast and efficient. Dun listen to the player haters out there :P
later

[string]

Nope, I'm from Newcastle, but i've been brainwashed by Honda-Tech into calling B18A/B's LS's, and B18C2's GSR's. When I say LS head I just mean the B18A/B head. The one you and I both have now :D

It's because in the states, they didn't have Gsi's and VTi-R's. They were LS and GS-R. The bastards got the DA9 GS-R aswell, unlike us. Would love to get my hands on one of those for a starting point.

Oh and don't think that because i'm telling you all this stuff that i'm putting your setup down or anything, 200fwkw is ****in' awesome from just 12psi. I can't wait to hear it in action at Autosalon this weekend :)

[Q_ball]

^ oh no no, not at all man, i was jst wonderin wtf u wer on about talkin LS head lol
nah its all good, i can appreciate another voice dude
cheers

[DaPlaya]

lol sorry Qball, i meant to say fwkw !!!

[CMI70Y]

Hay ma little friend CONGRATS man you were soo Bloody patient and now its paying off!
Cant wait 2 go for a drive in it jst give me a yell when your down in town!
:D

[RuGGY]

ahahaha nice...very nice MATE :)

[tinkerbell]

great power from a 'common' engine (no offence), seems to be a restriction somewhere (not that i am an expert!)

but string is on the right track, a VTEC head might be benificial not only due to VTEC, but also for flow and valve train improvements...

also - whoever told you LSD will slow you down, might be mixing it up with something else...

[string]

but string is on the right track, a VTEC head might be benificial not only due to VTEC, but also for flow and valve train improvements...
What do you mean beneficial not only due to VTEC.. It's not just a magical thing which increases power :p

All it does is increase flow for continuous torque at higher rpm, which is exactally what he needs if he wants a better powerband, and ultimately, more power!

[saxman]

LSD i was told, may actually slow me car down on the drag strip, so i dunno, i always intended on gettin one b4 i was told this...so i dunno, dunno much bout em.
whomever told you that doesn't have the slightest clue what he's talking about

[tinkerbell]

What do you mean beneficial not only due to VTEC..

well, since you asked and for the benefit of Q_ball:

it has a better valve actuation mechanisim and structural integrity too...

ie it is designed to rev beyond 7000rpm,

have you looked inside a B18B head?? you will see the only thing holding the valve rockers in place is the actual camshafts!!! (see below)

whereas the VTEC heads all use rocker arm shafts (see below)

also note the massive size of the VTEC camshaft caps (see below), compared to the puny size of the ones designed to rev to only 7000rpm...

using the B18B head in a boosted application for over 7000rpm *should* involve the use of upgraded valve springs (note the VTEC heads have DUAL valve springs) and this could compromise the structural integrity of the camshaft caps...

ie the VTEC head is beneficial not only due to VTEC but because it is STRONGER :thumbsup:

B18B head:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~joannepulis/sparefiles/B18Brockers.jpg

VTEC head (camshaft caps)
http://members.iinet.net.au/~joannepulis/sparefiles/VTECcamshafts.jpg

VTEC head (rocker arm shafts)
http://members.iinet.net.au/~joannepulis/sparefiles/VTECrockers.jpg

[Q_ball]

i am going to swap me b18b head for a b18c later...so yeh...spose ill keep yas updated with it...
how much would a b18c head cost??

[r`Geno]

285whp +

Well done! :thumbsup:

[superR]

good work buddy ... in my opinion parts well selected, you reached your power goal.
hope everything goes smooth with it.

[tinkerbell]

i am going to swap me b18b head for a b18c later...so yeh...spose ill keep yas updated with it...
how much would a b18c head cost??

i dunno, i have one sitting here, and have no idea how much it is worth!

i was thinking around 750, as people have been asking to buy it, but i want to hold onto it for a while before i decide what to do with it...

(so no - it is not for sale, but around $750 would be my guess...)

budget for ARP head studs ($215), new HG ($130) and a head service (~$250) as a minimum when considering the head swap though ;)

[Q_ball]

^ 750?? sheez, is that all?? i was thinking a couple grand and shit lol
hmm, may get it earlier than 1st planned :)

[jdmlvn]

the GAY BALL has done it again

[tinkerbell]

^ 750?? sheez, is that all?? i was thinking a couple grand and shit lol
hmm, may get it earlier than 1st planned :)

like i said, i was just guessing :confused:

[A'PEXi]

pics? :D

[Q_ball]

pics? :D
theres pics of the car scattered throughout all 3 of my forced induction threads...
jst flip back to the start of every1 and youll see pics of it ;)

[wynode]

What are you going to do for brakes boss ?

[|N|]

What are you going to do for brakes boss ?


brake ??? wats that? is that the latest brand for eye shadow??? cool... i m so gettin it... i m just so pretty


win give him another 5 yrs to understand the importance of brake

[LO_N_SXC]

Whats this I hear?

Qball 100% finished?

About time!

Hows it go like now its tuned and all?

[mj3610]

doesnt he already have type R brakes?

[|N|]

doesnt he already have type R brakes?

no ... its stock dc4 brakes with the calipar painted in red

[mj3610]

no ... its stock dc4 brakes with the calipar painted in red
everyone say goodbye to qball :wave:

[Weq]

brakes are overrated. he has near stock weight, so brewaking force does not need to be increased.

[mj3610]

well thats what i thought too, i thought why would u wanna get better brakes if the weight is the same? , its not just the weight, his car is pushing harder, if he accellerates faster its sensible to say he needs to brake harder as well. imagine quentin with a couple of people in his car and at the lights he takes off and hes gotta brake again 30 metres later, would it be the same as when his car wasnt boosted? i guess u can get away with not changin the brakes but u'd have to be realllll carefull. but knowing quentin hes a sensible guy im sure hes gonna be just fine ;)
p.s Quentin wheres that big cruise for when u get u license?

[LVNIT]

everyone say goodbye to qball :wave:

I think that is one of the stupiest comments I have ever read, you're actually implying that his life will be forfeited

[|N|]

but knowing quentin hes a sensible guy im sure hes gonna be just fine ;)

lol .. u dun knwo him well enf
sensible just dun go together with GayBo.....

[mj3610]

I think that is one of the stupiest comments I have ever read, you're actually implying that his life will be forfeited
Qball is the car leh, and ur comment is the lamest attempt to increase ur post count.

[WPN.22R]

NICE NICE!! i for one know what you went thru!! so im glad your ride is back on the road!

(ill buzz ya for line ups soon yeah??):D

-elee (hoping to be driving my car in 2 weeks!!)

[Q_ball]

What are you going to do for brakes boss ?
gettin them as soon as i can save up enough - runnin a lil dry lately hehe

wanna get em b4 i hit WSID, but ey...who knows, i may jst rip it down there as is jst to see how it goes :D


win give him another 5 yrs to understand the importance of brake
ill kick jor ass nick la lol

[wynode]

brakes are overrated. he has near stock weight, so brewaking force does not need to be increased.
LOL You must not use your brakes properly!

What you don't realise is that with all that power you pickup speed soo much faster that you need to be able to pull up just as quick.

[saxman]

LOL You must not use your brakes properly!

What you don't realise is that with all that power you pickup speed soo much faster that you need to be able to pull up just as quick.true, but until you get to the point of bad brake fade(not a HUGE problem with a street car, unless you're driving like a moron on the street, in which you shouldn't be driving that way at all), if your stock brakes can lock the tires up, upgrading isn't going to make you stop any faster.

[|N|]

wat the point of havin a 12 sec car if u cant stop?

[wynode]

true, but until you get to the point of bad brake fade(not a HUGE problem with a street car, unless you're driving like a moron on the street, in which you shouldn't be driving that way at all), if your stock brakes can lock the tires up, upgrading isn't going to make you stop any faster.
Well the problem of brake fade won't be evident unless he is stepping hard on the brakes.......and this might not happen unless he has to stop in a hurry. Sure he can drive around and pull up fine, but he won't be able to slow down in a hurry.

WIth the amount of power he is making....I just want to point out that brakes are an important component :)

[saxman]

how owuld upgrading the brakes make a drag car stop significantly faster? going down the strip isn't going to cause brake fade...

[wynode]

wat the point of havin a 12 sec car if u cant stop?
Well if its just goint to be a drag car for the strip he should be fine..........but it will be VERY interesting to see how he goes at wakefield with stock brakes. He'd probably be on the brakes from the kink at the end of the straight (whereas a stock dc2/4/rs brake much after the kink).

[saxman]

Well the problem of brake fade won't be evident unless he is stepping hard on the brakes.......and this might not happen unless he has to stop in a hurry. Sure he can drive around and pull up fine, but he won't be able to slow down in a hurry.

WIth the amount of power he is making....I just want to point out that brakes are an important component :)
I don't know... whenever I've had bad brake fade on my car it shows up way before stepping hard on the brakes... and only at the track. Certainly not on the streets/at the strip.

[|N|]

gaytin 's car is goin to be his daily, drag and wakefield car... so i have to say he DOES NEED A BRAKE.....
i ve driven his car... and i dun think the brakin power he has now is sufficient....
i mean ofcoz its fine if u dun go over speed limit and be a good boy all the time... but thing is ... gaytin is very bad at controlin himself... so i m just tryin to make him work on brake and suss b4 he does anything more power wise

[saxman]

if he's going to a road course, ok, but for a street car, unless you're running much stickier tires that the stock brakes can't lock up, then upgrading brakes isn't going to make you stop much faster. Only difference will be that you can get the car braking at the limit a little bit sooner. But then again some braided lines, and good pads will achieve that as well. There's a bit of misunderstanding out there about big brakes making you stop faster. Remember, it's your tires that are limiting your braking ability, not your brakes.

[Q_ball]

^very interesting points made about the brakes guys, thanks alot!
i dont kno too much about that sorta thing so its good to read up on it all.
so, being drag orientated, and my daily driver, do you rekon i should invest in good tyres, or better brakes?

[joyride]

both. :)
what good is having good brakes but the tyres skidding because there is not enough grip?
or crappy brakes on a car that has massive hp?

[smoknhothonda]

Both dude! being a turbo, you need tyres for traction, and brakes to help pull you up!

If you want an all out street/drag tyre have a look at the BF Goodrich drag radials, or Nitto's. (these tyres are noiser, and have softer sidewalls)

The brakes depending on how much you wanna spend, you can just go for something simple like braided brake lines pads and a good fluid, this will cost you $500-1K, or get a big brake kit with larger dia discs 4 pot calipers pads lines included this will cost you $1.5-3K plus installation.

[saxman]

I would upgrade tires before brakes, but both should definetely be done

[fly_vti]

sounds like you need some cross drilled/slotted discs and brembo calipers :D

[saxman]

cross drilled disks actually increase braking distance and lower the abilities of the brakes

they serve one purpose... looking "racey"

[smoknhothonda]

cross drilled disks actually increase braking distance and lower the abilities of the brakes

they serve one purpose... looking "racey"

Dont forget about the weight reduction associated with drilled rotors :p

Some manufacturers still use drilled rotors, and claim that this helps with cooling, and gas expulsion produced under track conditions.

BMW use drilled rotors on their M3's here in Oz, but under heavy track conditions I have seen DBA drilled rotors crack.

Slotted rotors are the way to go :thumbsup:

[saxman]

drilled rotors are a bit of a thing of the past with the way brake pads are made these days... You'd be hard pressed to find many brand new cars coming with drilled rotors

[aaronng]

^very interesting points made about the brakes guys, thanks alot!
i dont kno too much about that sorta thing so its good to read up on it all.
so, being drag orientated, and my daily driver, do you rekon i should invest in good tyres, or better brakes?
Both. You'll need to get a fine balance between the 2. If your brakes are too strong, then you lock up the tyres or ABS kicks in and you increase stopping distance. If you still have excess tyre grip when braking hard, then you're not making full use of braking potential. So.... when are you going to give me a ride in your car? :D jk!

Any calipers you have in mind? Why not 2 or 4 pot AP Racings with slotted+vented discs for the front and whatever you want for the rear? Plus the usual braided lines, DOT5 fluid and good pads.

[smoknhothonda]

drilled rotors are a bit of a thing of the past with the way brake pads are made these days... You'd be hard pressed to find many brand new cars coming with drilled rotors

But there are still many aftermarket performance brake manufacturers who are supplying them, even the big names Wilwood, Brembo, AP Racing....

[wynode]

BMW use drilled rotors on their M3's here in Oz, but under heavy track conditions I have seen DBA drilled rotors crack.


You'll find that the DBA cross-drilled disks aren't actually recommended for the track (by DBA themselves). I wonder why? ;)


if he's going to a road course, ok, but for a street car, unless you're running much stickier tires that the stock brakes can't lock up, then upgrading brakes isn't going to make you stop much faster. Only difference will be that you can get the car braking at the limit a little bit sooner. But then again some braided lines, and good pads will achieve that as well. There's a bit of misunderstanding out there about big brakes making you stop faster. Remember, it's your tires that are limiting your braking ability, not your brakes.

Well braided lines and better pads or even slotted rotors are there primarily to help eliminate brake fade. So if you have done all this and are not getting brake fade (and have a nice firm pedal) but your car just fails to pull up quick enough (without locking the tyres), then it is most likely time to upgrade your brakes.

The stock disks and pads can only generate 'so much' friction in order to stop the car.

[wynode]

drilled rotors are a bit of a thing of the past with the way brake pads are made these days... You'd be hard pressed to find many brand new cars coming with drilled rotors

saxman is correct......a 'lot' of the high performance pads made now don't have the gases that used to cause brake fade in earlier years (by getting between the pad and the disk surface).

[saxman]

But there are still many aftermarket performance brake manufacturers who are supplying them, even the big names Wilwood, Brembo, AP Racing....
because people will buy them... have to understand they're in it to make money... people buy them, so they sell them




Well braided lines and better pads or even slotted rotors are there primarily to help eliminate brake fade. So if you have done all this and are not getting brake fade (and have a nice firm pedal) but your car just fails to pull up quick enough (without locking the tyres), then it is most likely time to upgrade your brakes.

The stock disks and pads can only generate 'so much' friction in order to stop the car.
You're right... they are there to prevent brake fade, however, with most set ups these days, that's really the only problem. Until you're running nice wide slicks all around that the stock brakes can't lock up, upgrading your brakes really isn't doing a whole lot. The max coefficient of friction between the tires and the road tends to be lower than that between the pads and the disks.

This isn't to say that brake upgrades are bad my any means, it's just that most people don't really understand what it is they're doing. I've noticed that a lot on this board. A lot of the "hey, he has a turbo, he better put huge brakes on the car or it won't be able to stop" type mentality without understanding what exactly it is that upgrading the brakes do. Also, one should keep in mind there is a certain point where going bigger with the brakes isn't actually better, and it contributes to making the car accelerate and deccelerate slower. For most cars, getting a good pad, some braided lines, flushing out the brake fluid, and getting some stickier tires is a very good upgrade.

[Q_ball]

You're right... they are there to prevent brake fade, however, with most set ups these days, that's really the only problem. Until you're running nice wide slicks all around that the stock brakes can't lock up, upgrading your brakes really isn't doing a whole lot. The max coefficient of friction between the tires and the road tends to be lower than that between the pads and the disks.

This isn't to say that brake upgrades are bad my any means, it's just that most people don't really understand what it is they're doing. I've noticed that a lot on this board. A lot of the "hey, he has a turbo, he better put huge brakes on the car or it won't be able to stop" type mentality without understanding what exactly it is that upgrading the brakes do. Also, one should keep in mind there is a certain point where going bigger with the brakes isn't actually better, and it contributes to making the car accelerate and deccelerate slower. For most cars, getting a good pad, some braided lines, flushing out the brake fluid, and getting some stickier tires is a very good upgrade.
makes sense to me saxman, thanks dude :thumbsup:

[wynode]

because people will buy them... have to understand they're in it to make money... people buy them, so they sell them




You're right... they are there to prevent brake fade, however, with most set ups these days, that's really the only problem. Until you're running nice wide slicks all around that the stock brakes can't lock up, upgrading your brakes really isn't doing a whole lot. The max coefficient of friction between the tires and the road tends to be lower than that between the pads and the disks.

This isn't to say that brake upgrades are bad my any means, it's just that most people don't really understand what it is they're doing. I've noticed that a lot on this board. A lot of the "hey, he has a turbo, he better put huge brakes on the car or it won't be able to stop" type mentality without understanding what exactly it is that upgrading the brakes do. Also, one should keep in mind there is a certain point where going bigger with the brakes isn't actually better, and it contributes to making the car accelerate and deccelerate slower. For most cars, getting a good pad, some braided lines, flushing out the brake fluid, and getting some stickier tires is a very good upgrade.

Well what about the case where you do upgrade pads,fluid brake lines and still get 'fade' ? The pads themselves can only dissipate soo much heat.

I know of at least 1 user personally who is making around 10-15kW more at the wheels than stock and had to upgrade to bigger disks + calipers in order to eliminate brake fade (this is in relation to the track......not on the street). He tried pads, fluid and brake lines and that just wasn't enough.

[saxman]

Well what about the case where you do upgrade pads,fluid brake lines and still get 'fade' ? The pads themselves can only dissipate soo much heat.

I know of at least 1 user personally who is making around 10-15kW more at the wheels than stock and had to upgrade to bigger disks + calipers in order to eliminate brake fade (this is in relation to the track......not on the street). He tried pads, fluid and brake lines and that just wasn't enough.
that'll happen when you race the car at the track... that extra 10-15kW of power doesn't have a thing to do with it

[wynode]

what I was trying to point out was that upgrading your pads, lines and fluid will only do so much to aid in braking. After that you will have to get better stopping hardware.

[mj3610]

ffs he needs new brakes end of story. ur ride looks sharp quentin keep up the good work son ;) i showed my mate ur dyno sheets he was impressed he's got a white turbod accent himself.

[Q_ball]

im bringin u with me win, wen i go brake hunting :D