2005 Italian Grand Prix - Monza (discussion)

[^^v]

2nd to last round of the European leg...

being one of the fastest tracks in the season...engines will play a major role in the race, more so than aero (as is the case in other tracks)

should be interesting to see where BAR end up (after a strong performance in Turkey)

n for some reason i cant see Kimi winning this one so easily.... but meh i could be wrong

[dc2dc2dc2]

tab are offering $3.50 kimi + monty quinella. im backing it. :)

[TwEigh]

what is the odd for sato at TAB? LOL

[Vivski]

How many blown engines? BAR? Time for another mechanical failure for Kimi, he hasn't had one in a while.
You reckon Ferrari will pull out something special for their home race?

[Hondavirgin]

They might light fuel it to chuck it on pole and then hope Schumey can work some magic....other than that, no chance.

I'm picking a Mclaren win, subject to reliability issues, in which case I'm sure it'll be Alonso there to pick up the scraps.

Fisichella will probably get 4th...........................AGAIN!

[LUD02C]

$3.50 for Kimi-Juan finish? I might take that up!
Hope God has a strong performance, and lets hope Webber can do something.

[jackosimm]

wish my long weekend was for monday and not today!

[LUD02C]

I'm going to get Spa off for sure!
I love that track, I think Turkey has taken over as my favourite.

[Hondavirgin]

I'm going to get Spa off for sure!
I love that track, I think Turkey has taken over as my favourite.

I am well pi$$ed i missed that one.......................

[jackosimm]

missed out on what I think is and will be the race of the season!

[LUD02C]

Michael crashed in practice :(

Whenever he crashes he has a solid result, lets hope its the same here.

[jackosimm]

Damn Im just reading over that now, he's saying too that the only real hope of winning is if it rains!

[LUD02C]

Yeah I read that, we haven't had a wet race all season.
Best chance is Spa, so high in the sky and should be a great race in the wet.

[jackosimm]

it has been a long time since a wet race, I really enjoyed USA 2003 I believe? it just poured down there! Need some action like that again:thumbsup:

[LUD02C]

Brazil 2003 you mean?

[LUD02C]

My tips.

Ferrari same fuel as Renault.
BAR running lighter then everyone.
Juan and Kimi have more fuel then both Renault and Ferrari.

[^^v]

My tips.

Ferrari same fuel as Renault.
BAR running lighter then everyone.
Juan and Kimi have more fuel then both Renault and Ferrari.

i somewhat agree with u...
but i think the Ferraris r running pretty light... wont be suprised if they're on par with BAR when it comes to fuel loads...

EDIT: n i also think Kimis heavy as a mofo..... heavier than monty...

[jackosimm]

Brazil 2003 you mean?

na it definetly was a race at USA Im thinking of, however now I do remember brazil, that first corner had the malfunctioning drain and a pile of like 6 cars!!!

Pretty decent qualifying results they have in there, BAR's definetly looking strong, or very very light.

[kenshin]

EDIT: n i also think Kimis heavy as a mofo..... heavier than monty...

you forget he stuck it on pole... so i wont be quite certain thats he's a heavy runner...

he'll be on same fuel loads as renault imo, just running on a leaner setting to last a few extra laps while behind slower cars...

[LUD02C]

Williams have confirmed that Antonia Pizzonia will replace the injured Nick Heidfeld for the rest of the Italian GP weekend.

Ickle Nick has been experiencing a 'strong headache' as a result of a crash in testing last week and withdraw from the event on Saturday morning after talks with the team and the FIA safety delegate Sid Watkins.

"I spoke with [The present FIA Medical Delegate] Gary Hartstein and Sid Watkins [Hartstein's predecessor] this morning and they both recommended I did not drive," Heidfeld said.

It's Pizzonia's first grand prix since last year's Italian GP. However, before Saturday practice, Pizzonia hadn't drove the Williams for a full three months.

It's on again, WEBBER vs PIZZA BOY!
Pizzonia, will out brake himself first corner and hit someone!

[jackosimm]

I noticed that on the qualifying results page, very interesting!

[kenshin]

It's on again, WEBBER vs PIZZA BOY!
Pizzonia, will out brake himself first corner and hit someone!

please someone take out alonso... or let him have mechanical failure

i want the last 4 races to be worth watching...

[enoch]

pizza boy will take out alonso.
i hate alonso so much
i hate his team boss even more

[Z]

Driver(Team) Win Place
J P Montoya(McLaren) * 2.10 1.33
K Raikkonen(McLaren) * 3.00 1.33
F Alsonso(Renault) * 4.75 1.45
J Button(BAR) * 17.00 2.75
M Schumacher(Ferrari) * 21.00 4.50
G Fisichella(Renault) * 41.00 5.50
T Sato(BAR) * 51.00 8.00
J Trulli(Toyota) * 51.00 7.00
R Barrichello(Ferrari) 67.00 11.00
R Schumacher(Toyota) * 81.00 15.00
M Webber(Williams) * 101.00 17.00
D Coultard(Red Bull) * 151.00 26.00
C Klein(Red Bull) * 301.00 51.00
J Villeneuve(Sauber) * 401.00 67.00
F Massa(Sauber) * 401.00 67.00
N Karthikeyan(Jordan) * 2,001.00 251.00
T Monteiro(Jordan) * 2,001.00 251.00
C Albers(Minardi) * 2,001.00 351.00
Robert Doornbos(Minardi) * 2,001.00 351.00

For those interested...

[nEUROtic]

Alonso, Die!


That is all..

[^^v]

aaah fkn hell...
theres a 1 hrz delay telecast-_-

[Vivski]

I wonder what would happen if it does rain. We do need a wet race soon, 'cos there hasn't been one for a while. Not Monza though, 'cos that's a great track without rain.
Rain brings out the best drivers and I'll bet Michael Schumacher gets a podium in the first wet race of the season. Every time it rains, he seems to make everyone look pedestrian.

[Vivski]

Hey, NO BIG BROTHEL!!! Did it finish? Oh hoorah! The F1 might actually start on time tonight.

[^^v]

Hey, NO BIG BROTHEL!!! Did it finish? Oh hoorah! The F1 might actually start on time tonight.



aaah fkn hell...
theres a 1 hrz delay telecast-_-

:o

[Vivski]

Delayed as in not live? At least it will start at the time it says it will start and not 45mins late 'cos BB ran overtime.

[micka]

Aus idol runs overtime in its place

[aaronng]

F1 now. Watch watch!

[X8TEENX]

WTF still 1 more hours before it airs in perth

[enoch]

did that Z faggot jsut post spoilers?

[aaronng]

Are you having a delayed telecast? Starts at 11pm here in Sydney. Webber just pulled an IDIOT move again! If you watch it, you'll understand. I change my stance on Webber. He is a prick!

[enoch]

aaronng, which move?

[aaronng]

The one in the pitlane!

[^^v]

muahahah i was right!
how fkn heavy was Kimi. omfgz... n he managed a high 20 sec qualifer.....
a pitty his luck let him down again....... wonder what he done to deserve all this bad karma.. ahahahhaaa

ah well... not one of the best f1 races i seen this year...

[aaronng]

Yeah... poor kimi. 4th place is a DAMN good effort though. 11th to 5th, back down to 11th and up to 4th. If he didn't have that damn villeneuve blocking him, he would have caught up.

But with the failed engine, I reckon Kimi goes mix5 and raises the rev limit in qualifying. That's partly why he's still fast when full of fuel and ends up damaging his engine each GP. But he is a fast driver too. He was absolutely fanging the car after he had spun out.

[TwEigh]

Are you having a delayed telecast? Starts at 11pm here in Sydney. Webber just pulled an IDIOT move again! If you watch it, you'll understand. I change my stance on Webber. He is a prick!

Go to hell Webber.

[jackosimm]

hmmm sounded like a great race, fell asleep at about lap 10! Damn work. Some good results though just checking over them now.

[^^v]

But with the failed engine, I reckon Kimi goes mix5 and raises the rev limit in qualifying. That's partly why he's still fast when full of fuel and ends up damaging his engine each GP...

maybe... but u'd think the whole field would have the engine set to max power for qualifying.... its only logical...


man what a shocking tipping round for me... overestimated BAR's performance :o
wonder wot kinda odd's the tab running for Alonso to take the title? lolz...

[Z]

did that Z faggot jsut post spoilers?

Think before you act. Get back in your box.

[aaronng]

maybe... but u'd think the whole field would have the engine set to max power for qualifying.... its only logical...


man what a shocking tipping round for me... overestimated BAR's performance :o
wonder wot kinda odd's the tab running for Alonso to take the title? lolz...
Yeah, everyone will set their engine to max power, but in terms of rev limit, I think most drivers will limit to a 18000rpm shiftpoint. I think Kimi might just hold the throttle a little longer to 18500-19000rpm before shifting. But he is damn damn damn good to be the fastest qualifier and drive 1/2 the race without refueling! He was on a full load! If I remember, 108L = 24 laps yesterday. He started with enough fuel to last until lap 27 and he was faster than the cars that had to pit at lap 14-18. Haha.. he's goooooooooood.

[Hondavirgin]

Not too bad a race. Four things i reckon are worth mentioning.

1. How fast is Kimi?! i reckon that race was the most impressive all season for him, just how fast he cruised up to the back of people, the amount of places he made up (although i don't like how he seems to always just sit back and wait for them to pit and then sprint past, i know its sensible but not good TV!). But yeah, very quick, and if that was all that won championships he would have won this one. Unfortunately drivng the car to a level where it doesn't break is a skill of being a race driver, maybe he needs to slow down fractionally?

2. WTF is webber doing?! is that even allowed? he drove straight through his pit board guy, i mean, visibility aint that great in one of those things, what if someone was still working on the car that he couldn't see..... You shouldn't be just driving off, Sato should have squeezed him out into other teams pits...

3. Also, another Webber rant, is Pizzonia manages to score points after not driving for 3 months, yet webber is back in 14th?, even allowing for the early stop, thats a poor poor effort, and awesome for Pizzonia. If the car is so hard to drive how can this happen?

4. None of the commentators mentioned it, but Fisi jumped 5 CARS at the first round of stops.......8th to 3rd. GOLD!, pi$$es me off how no-one ever mentions fisi's race. :confused:

As for a wet race, It's likely half of spa could be wet, but just as likely that the other half could be bone dry! :D

[jackosimm]

Not too bad a race. Four things i reckon are worth mentioning.

1. How fast is Kimi?! i reckon that race was the most impressive all season for him, just how fast he cruised up to the back of people, the amount of places he made up (although i don't like how he seems to always just sit back and wait for them to pit and then sprint past, i know its sensible but not good TV!). But yeah, very quick, and if that was all that won championships he would have won this one. Unfortunately drivng the car to a level where it doesn't break is a skill of being a race driver, maybe he needs to slow down fractionally?

2. WTF is webber doing?! is that even allowed? he drove straight through his pit board guy, i mean, visibility aint that great in one of those things, what if someone was still working on the car that he couldn't see..... You shouldn't be just driving off, Sato should have squeezed him out into other teams pits...

3. Also, another Webber rant, is Pizzonia manages to score points after not driving for 3 months, yet webber is back in 14th?, even allowing for the early stop, thats a poor poor effort, and awesome for Pizzonia. If the car is so hard to drive how can this happen?

4. None of the commentators mentioned it, but Fisi jumped 5 CARS at the first round of stops.......8th to 3rd. GOLD!, pi$$es me off how no-one ever mentions fisi's race. :confused:

As for a wet race, It's likely half of spa could be wet, but just as likely that the other half could be bone dry! :D

Some good points there, Had no idea that Fisi jumped that many cars, too true they never mention him.

Im quiet suprised Michael didn't get a drive through for that move in the start of the race, looked like he'd get one for sure.

[dudeling7]

I really feel for Kimi! He has the worst luck ever, and everything seems to go Alonso's way. Kimi did great to manage 4th place in the end after all the dramas he went through, his car was extremely fast haha flying over curbs and everything! It was a good race :)

[Hondavirgin]

Some good points there, Had no idea that Fisi jumped that many cars, too true they never mention him.

Im quiet suprised Michael didn't get a drive through for that move in the start of the race, looked like he'd get one for sure.

I think he would have but a couple of laps later he let Trulli back through.

[jackosimm]

ah didnt spot that, dosed off to sleep throughout it

[Hondavirgin]

yeah, first stint was fairly exciting, but it got a bit dull after that.......

[jackosimm]

Ive done that with almost every race but turkey this year. Last night seemed to have a touch more due to the pace of it.

[7th Gen]

how did everyone go with the tipping?

all over the place i reckon........

Alonso can mathematically win the championship next week at Spa

[jackosimm]

Ive heard he can too, Id personally love to see a battle to the end between more than 2 drivers

[LUD02C]

Tipping updated.

What a race.
Kimi's performance was outstanding, and the pace of the car is unbelieveable.
Montoya, another solid performance, showing how good he is.
McLaren will have some words with Michelin I reckon, what happened is unacceptable especially at a high speed track like Monza.

Why do you disagree with Webber's move on Sato in the pit lane?
He is a racing car driver, it was for position, and it was legal. Problem?
I thought it was a great move.

I'm actaully disappointed that Sato had that fuel/computer problem, he had a good start and his pass on Trulli was excellent.

I still believe Alonso hasn't proved himself to be a World Champion.
He hasn't done anything that stands out like Michael, Mika etc and Kimi this year and late late year proved he is a great race car driver.

What about no DNF's at all?

Also the conversation about Michelin's future?

Both Toyotas finishing strong, no Ferrari in the points.
Overall great race.

[JDM.Power]

I still believe Alonso hasn't proved himself to be a World Champion.
He hasn't done anything that stands out like Michael, Mika etc and Kimi this year and late late year proved he is a great race car driver.


i agree with you there!
his not that good.
but il put kimi on top of alonso anyday.
if Mclaren had this car from the start of the year.
i would say kimi would of taken the world champion ages ago.

[jackosimm]

its still possible guys! Good point about if kimi had the car from the start of the year too:thumbsup:

[^^v]

I still believe Alonso hasn't proved himself to be a World Champion.
He hasn't done anything that stands out like Michael, Mika etc and Kimi this year and late late year proved he is a great race car driver.


agreed...
but its hard to turn a blind eye on his consistency

[nEUROtic]

Yeh he is definately in the top 3 drivers in the field, consistent but never able to like pull off victories that you remember in a few years.

[Vivski]

I would have no problem with Webber's move if he had given Sato more room, but he seemed to play chicken with him. Once they were side by side, it was a great drag race to the first corner... very exciting! I only wish Webber had not tried to squease Sato when he pulled out.

I said it was time for Kimi to have some more bad luck. And there it was.
I wish I had known about Kimi's penalty for the tipping, I would have gone quite well.

[enoch]

Z, what drug are you on? you posted results, i asked if they were spoilers.
no clue what there were u posted.

agreed, alonso is a mofo and don't deserve the championship. at spa he's gonna crash and break a leg.
if BAR kicks sato because of "poor performance", im gonna buy a mazda.

[^^v]

agreed, alonso is a mofo and don't deserve the championship. at spa he's gonna crash and break a leg.
if BAR kicks sato because of "poor performance", im gonna buy a mazda.

ahahahaaa nicely put

[joshen]

poor alonso, he does what he's asked to do and gets bagged on. anyway is it just me or is his head really huge?? like literally??

when it comes to mclaren I would say that JPM has had just about as bad of luck as kimmi has this year.

[Hondavirgin]

I think Alonso has done enough to deserve the championship..... out of 15 rounds he has 12 top 4 placings....

6 Wins
4 2nds
1 3rd
1 4th

Consistency like that deserves a championship. As i said before, if Kimi's car keeps breaking maybe they are driving it too hard, and its sustainable pace is considerably less? Just a thought, it could just be extreme bad luck....

As for my argument against Webber, its not so much the side by side pit action (though squeezing sato over the white line is a bit rough) its the fact he drove THROUGH his pitboard guy, who has a much better idea of the surroundings and what the crew is doing, its dangerous (cue Top Gun quote "you're dangerous" *snap (points for guessing that one).

And that's f*ckin ridiculous hoping someone will break a leg.

[aaronng]

Alonso is fast. To get to the front you have to be fast. Consistent yes. You an be consistent and not fast and get 5th place for every race too. So since Alonso has got many 1st and 2nd place wins, he is fast and consistent.

Kimi is faster but not consistent (both the car and his ability to extend the reliability of his car. Montoya's car doesn't break down as often)

[^^v]

poor alonso, he does what he's asked to do and gets bagged on. anyway is it just me or is his head really huge?? like literally??

when it comes to mclaren I would say that JPM has had just about as bad of luck as kimmi has this year.

yeah hes got a pretty big jaw line... its starting to fuse with his chest ...

u reckon ?
imo kimis had nearly twice as much bad luck as monty... just look at all the DNF's

[aaronng]

yeah hes got a pretty big jaw line... its starting to fuse with his chest ...
That's why he wins. His body has evolved to handle high side-G loads. Hahahhaa.

[nEUROtic]

poor alonso, he does what he's asked to do and gets bagged on. anyway is it just me or is his head really huge?? like literally??

when it comes to mclaren I would say that JPM has had just about as bad of luck as kimmi has this year.

Hello, I've been saying his head is huge for months :P What took you all so long to notice its like an orange on a toothpick

[LUD02C]

Alonso is doing a Richard Burns.
Getting a World Championship for being consistent.
I believe Burns won the WDC and never won an entire rally.

If Kimi didn't have Jacques or that damm Toyota in his way, 2nd was his!
Also, how good was Fisichella?
If I was Ferrari I think Fisichella would rank higher then Massa, Ferrari will be back next year boys!

[LUD02C]

You also have Michelin saying they want to get rid of some teams (two i think), will Red Bull and Williams be those two?

Maybe BAR or McLaren might jump ship.
Solution, 1 tyre supplier!

[Hondavirgin]

Also, how good was Fisichella?


Never recognised by the commentators! makes me angry!

I agree that Michelin needs to lose some teams but i like the different tyre manufacturers, makes it interesting and different manufacturers do better at different tracks....

I'm paranoid about F1 turning into indy or CART or whatever the hell its called, i.e. control tyres, very similar cars etc....

[^^v]

I'm paranoid about F1 turning into indy or CART or whatever the hell its called, i.e. control tyres, very similar cars etc....

i agree... thats the last thing i wanna see... similar cars... ie... v8 super cars ><""""

[LUD02C]

If F1 splits and 2 different championships happen (like Cart and Indy) I will give up on it.

[enoch]

ditto

pinnacle of motorsport my arse
"yes we are the top, except we want them to be slower and use use less technology, because going slower and using less technology is very innovative. the less technology we use, the more technology will improve"
:rolleyes:

[Hondavirgin]

If F1 splits and 2 different championships happen (like Cart and Indy) I will give up on it.

i thought i heard somewhere that that was off the cards now and that that body of manufacturers had changed their name to some kind of advisory group or something.....

The thing thats gets me is that they either jusify the changes on costs or safety. Now safety i can understand, but costs, if they left the regs stable for a bit THATS how you save costs.

I'd like someone to show me how the switch to the V8s has saved costs....

[jackosimm]

If F1 splits and 2 different championships happen (like Cart and Indy) I will give up on it.

Ill follow them both, on a very inconsitent basis in which I really wouldnt panic if I missed it