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ah789454
23-02-2004, 11:19 PM
isnt the head on the b18c just a b16 head?? i know the b16 head is on the ITR

McChook
23-02-2004, 11:49 PM
isnt the head on the b18c just a b16 head?? i know the b16 head is on the ITR

B16a head is not the same as the B18 head. I didn;t think the ITR head was the same as a B16 head either.
Correct me if I am wrong

VTEC16
24-02-2004, 12:27 AM
isnt the head on the b18c just a b16 head?? i know the b16 head is on the ITR

B16a head is not the same as the B18 head. I didn;t think the ITR head was the same as a B16 head either.
Correct me if I am wrong

Apparently the b16a and ITR heads are very similar....(from memory just a very mild port and polish is the diff)

tanghy
24-02-2004, 12:30 AM
chicken leading the duck

VTEC16
24-02-2004, 12:31 AM
chicken leading the duck

lol....im tired....dont think ill make anymore posts tonight...

McChook
24-02-2004, 12:33 AM
chicken leading the duck
turkey rather make passing comment than answer the question

ITR head, is not the same as a B16 head. Cams, valves, valve springs, retainers, combustion chamber (pretty sure the B18 head doesn;t have the triangular bits on the head between cylinders for higher compression).. etc are all different.
I think the rockers are the same.

VTEC16
24-02-2004, 12:36 AM
...was just talking about the head....not all the misc stuff inside it!

:oops: .....there goes me posting again!

McChook
24-02-2004, 12:52 AM
Think outside the square mate - in this case, what is actually nside the square....

VTEC16
24-02-2004, 12:54 AM
using this link (http://www.bojangs.com/calculator/), it shows that the b15a and b18c5 heads both have the exact same compression ratio on a given head......obviously dont take this as gospel....but it gives you an indication that they are VERY similar...

...and NO....that site wasnt my inspiration in thinking they were soo similar :P

McChook
24-02-2004, 01:04 AM
Let's get complicated - do all all 3 versions of the B18C - type R variant have the same head - The JDM has a higher compression ratio due to pistons, BUT....

They may be simillar, but i still think the B18 head is different. As I said, please prove me wrong, kinda imteresting....

Does it really matter anyway??

pornstar
24-02-2004, 08:12 AM
the b18c1 as in the VTIR engine is not the same head. Its a fair bit different to the b16a and ITR heads.

DynoDave
24-02-2004, 08:29 AM
The head on a B18C VtiR is more commonly known as a GSR head they use a raised intake port for better flow. The DC2R head is a B16A based head which has a hand finished porting and not just a rough casting.
regards Dyno Dave

VTEC16
24-02-2004, 10:24 AM
The head on a B18C VtiR is more commonly known as a GSR head they use a raised intake port for better flow. The DC2R head is a B16A based head which has a hand finished porting and not just a rough casting.
regards Dyno Dave

Thank you!!!

wynode
24-02-2004, 11:56 AM
I think you guys need to be more specific with the engine code designations.

B16B head is very similar ITR head whereas the B18C1 head is totally different.

I have a few links here with the differences, i'll see if I can find em.

wynode
24-02-2004, 12:16 PM
Firstly,

The initial post is not very specific, but i'm assuming you are trying to say the B16a head is similar to the ITR head?

Here are the differences I found:

Throttle Bore Diameter
B16a - 60mm
ITR - 62mm

Air Intake Diameter
b16a - 65mm
ITR - 70mm

Intake valve diameter
b16a - 33mm x 2mm
ITR - same, but margin reduced by 0.5mm

Valve Lift
b16a - IN 10.7mm, EX 9.4mm
ITR - IN 11.5mm, EX 10.5mm

Valve Timing at 1mm lift
b16a
IN Open/Close - BTDC15/ABDC45
EX Open/Close - BBDC40/ATDC7

ITR
IN Open/Close - BTDC15/ABDC45
EX Open/Close - BBDC45/ATDC10

Those are the specs, but there is more to consider in terms of how well they flow compared to each other.

PS: Sorry about the formatting.

hondar
29-02-2004, 12:02 AM
im not if i can be a help.

A standard b18c has a P72 Block with P72 Head and P72 intake manifold
A standard B18c Type r has a P73 block with PR3 head and P73 intake manifold.

A b16a head has a PR3 code as well. howver there is a different in a type r PR3 head. i think someone mentioned before in the discussion that it is being port and polish by honda.

This is the quote from an article by the name of surferX regarding type r engine.

QUOTE:
As if you can't tell already, the B18C specR engine is quite an achievement. As mentioned above the valve ports get a hand port and polish job by Honda's best engineers. Not only that, in order to maintain the precision and flawlessness of the engine, engineers also assemble parts of the engine block by hand, assuring everything stays according to exact spec. This process is a painstaking one and limits production of Type R engines to only 25 per day. No mass production here, this engine is going to be put into a limited edition vehicle.

So i guess thats the difference but an important part to achieve the 200HP that Type r is capable of.

Also putting a normal b16a head is not equal to putting a type r head.

There is a different in valve springs, intake and exhaust valves which allow 20% more flow if i remember the fact correctly, cams, lost motion thats as far as i remember that is different on the HEAD.

the rockers arms, vtec solenoid are the same.

hope that helps

eknine
29-02-2004, 09:43 AM
thats the right find hondar :)

wynode
29-02-2004, 06:54 PM
No luck finding that article on the difference of the type R head eknine?

Anyway, in addition to what hondar mentioned, the ITR valves are also lighter than the vti-r valves.

If only I remember where that article was.............


EDIT: Isn't the b16b head also hand assembled?

eknine
29-02-2004, 07:05 PM
yeah...i was looking for it. can't find it:(

but hondar found me the info i need abt the Intake manifold...

btw wyn, if you find the article let us know:)...thx

wynode
29-02-2004, 07:16 PM
Cylinder head design for the Type R is a double overhead camshaft, four-valves-per-cylinder configuration which incorporates the exclusive VTEC system. The Type R engine utilizes the latest combustion technology to provide a combination of fuel efficiency and power. Because of the low surface-to-volume area of the chamber, minimal surface area is exposed to the heat of combustion and more heat is retained in the expanding gases, resulting in increased thermal efficiency. And the generous "squish" area around the combustion chamber yields increased gas turbulence, faster flame propagation, and even better efficiency.

Extensive modifications of the cylinder head were undertaken improve performance. This also involves hand-polishing of the intake and exhaust ports near the valve seat area. In addition to hand polishing the ports to improve flow, special lightweight intake valves are also fitted. These valves feature a thinner shaft to reduce weight and increase flow. The head of the valve is also lightened to further reduce valvetrain weight. These modifications net a 12 percent weight reduction of the intake valves, allowing the engine to rev higher. These lighter intake valves help extend the rpm range of the Type R engine by an additional 200 rpm.

Special high-performance dual intake valve springs with an oval-shaped cross section are utilized to allow the use of high-performance camshafts for increased flow at high rpm. The unique oval shape allows a stronger valve spring to be fitted in the same area as a conventional spring. Conventional dual high-performance valve springs are used on the exhaust valves. Camshafts fitted to the Integra Type R are longer duration with higher lift to help increase engine breathing and top-end horsepower. At high engine speeds, valve lift on the intake side is increased by 0.9 mm, and on the exhaust side by 1.1 mm, compared to the GS-R. The valve timing is extended an additional 10 degrees on the intake side and 8 degrees on the exhaust side.

Valves


- 12 percent weight reduction
- Valve shaft width was decreased from 5.5mm to 4.6mm
- The angle of the valve seat opening was tightened from 60 to 45 degrees
- Valve heads are lightened to reduce valvetrain weight
- Weight recduction allows engine to rev 200 rpm's higher


Intake and Exhaust Ports


- Intake and Exhaust Ports are hand-polished near the valve seat area to improve air flow
- Originally only two of the best mechanics at Honda port and polished the manifolds by hand. At this time only 25 engines a day could be created. During the last several production years 5 mechanics have been working full time on port and polishing in order to increase production.


Valve springs


- al-shaped cross section to allow the use of high-performance camshafts for increased flow at high rpm
- Non-cylindrical, "flat" springs in order to keep the spring height near-stock, and still increase rebounding power


Intake and Exhaust Ports


- Intake and Exhaust Ports are hand-polished near the valve seat area to improve air flow
- Originally only two of the best mechanics at Honda port and polished the manifolds by hand. At this time only 25 engines a day could be created. During the last several production years 5 mechanics have been working full time on port and polishing in order to increase production.


More info on ITRsport.com (http://69.53.28.141/technical.html#head)

EDIT: eknine, click the link for more info.

eknine
29-02-2004, 07:21 PM
thank you....wyn:)

tinkerbell
01-03-2004, 09:28 AM
Correct me if I am wrong

i think you appear to be developing a stutter...

jooboo
11-01-2006, 11:19 PM
ok im prob not using the right terminology...n with the typeRs yes they were made by hand...but that was only the 1st 500 JDM made in 96...after that honda designed machines that did a finer job...i got this from BMI typeR legend:)

tinkerbell
13-01-2006, 03:49 PM
ok im prob not using the right terminology...n with the typeRs yes they were made by hand...but that was only the 1st 500 JDM made in 96...after that honda designed machines that did a finer job...i got this from BMI typeR legend:)

hmmm, coulda done with thing info about 22 months ago :wave:

T-onedc2
25-05-2006, 05:46 PM
ok im prob not using the right terminology...n with the typeRs yes they were made by hand...but that was only the 1st 500 JDM made in 96...after that honda designed machines that did a finer job...i got this from BMI typeR legend:)
Better watch that dvd again and you'll notice a precicion machine was used from late '96 for port polishing but the engine was still assembled by hand. ;)

spardikis
27-05-2006, 10:35 PM
and there was differances in the 98 spec model itr with (let me remember here) either lift or duration on the exhaust cam lobe. so the 98 spec on itr head is slightly better.