Warranty issue with engine oil

[coladuna]

I just got my car serviced (20000km) and took my own engine oil (shell helix ultra 5W-40)
The guy at the service department warned me that all warranty will be void if i use non-genuine honda engine oil.
I thought there were a few people on the forum who already clarified this issue with Honda Australia and got the OK to use it.
I don't see how they can void warranty provided that it's within the correct rating, considering that all engine oils have industry standard rating and Shell Helix Ultra is actually superior than Honda engine oil.

[V205]

Ask him to put that comment in an official letter. I'm pretty sure you won't end up with such a letter.

[coladuna]

Ask him to put that comment in an official letter. I'm pretty sure you won't end up with such a letter.

He mentioned it when I was dropping my car off. He made it look like I'm doing something that has serious consequences. He mentioned it to my dad AGAIN when he picked up my car for me in the afternoon while I was at work.
They also put a clause on the invoice under the recommendation section that they STRONGLY RECOMMEND against the use of non-genuine honda lubricants as it will void warranty should any related parts fail.

[albii]

even though iam using the honda oil i will also say that it sucks and is an absolute joke that honda does not warrant use of other oils even if they are more superior...it's a classic case of making money for honda even after the car has been sold..
what crap is the honda oil anyway?

[V205]

I bet that dealer doesn't even use original honda oil.. they just buy a big drum of Magnatec or Mobil-Synth-S etc..

[jamchen]

yeah, get the guy to write a comment/ letter saying that he/ or the dealership will void the new car warrenty if non-genuine honda ENGINE OIL is used. and what you can do is scan the letter and email it for honda australia and wait to see what their responses are. or ring up other dealers and i bet you will find one say there's no problems of bringing own oils...

[coladuna]

I have sent an email to Honda Australia asking them to confirm their stance on this issue. Hopefully I'll get a favourable reply. I plan to print it out and then take it to Austral Honda, stick it up that guy's face and tell him to read it aloud.

[SSML]

good idea.

[aaronng]

My dealer puts in magnatec. Worse than FEO. I have to bring my own oil.

[nexace]

My dealer puts in magnatec. Worse than FEO. I have to bring my own oil.

Does that mean the dealer is voiding their own warranty? :D

[EuroAccord13]

Dealers generally try to shift and imply the idea that non-genuine oils will void warranty .... i.e write STRONGLY RECOMMEND AGAINST THE USE OF NON-GENUINE blah blah blah oil........ As far as I know, non-genuine oil of the same rating cannot void a warranty..

I suggest you change dealers to service your call, dishonesty with you is dishonesty with you for life .....


Yes, get a written letter and then send it to Honda Australia...

[yfin]

Get it in writing - PM me a scanned copy and I will speak to the ACCC about it too.

[coladuna]

Get it in writing - PM me a scanned copy and I will speak to the ACCC about it too.

yfin, I do have the tax invoice that states that it'll void warranty. would that suffice?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this essentially the same case as printer cartridges? Printer manufacturers claimed that using non-genuine cartridges or refills will void warranty, but it was later decided that it was illegal to do that. I remember reading about it a while ago.

Anyway, what a irony. I just checked the engine oil level and they've overfilled it by a mile. No wonder. I gave them a 5L bottle and the used just about all of it. If something happens that would be more to blame than the brand of engine oil used. I"m gonna call and complain about the overfill and say if something goes wrong, it's their fault.

Also, this service guy spoke a real non-sense. He said that synthetic oils are too thin. How does he know the oil I brought is too thin or not if he doesn't even know the rating. He was talking as if all synthetic oil will be thinner than any other oil out there, totally disregarding the rating.

[yfin]

I thought you said the invoice said they strongly recommend Honda oils.

I am looking for something in writing that says your warranty will be voided using non-Honda oil (even if it meets or exceeds the Honda specifications). A statement like that raises a couple of issues under the Trade Practices Act. In my view it seriously moves into the area of anti-competitive conduct and unless the dealer has a bloody good explanation I think the ACCC will agree.

[coladuna]

I thought you said the invoice said they strongly recommend Honda oils.

I am looking for something in writing that says your warranty will be voided using non-Honda oil (even if it meets or exceeds the Honda specifications). A statement like that raises a couple of issues under the Trade Practices Act. In my view it seriously moves into the area of anti-competitive conduct and unless the dealer has a bloody good explanation I think the ACCC will agree.

I'll quote what it says on the invoice word for word

Please note the use of non genuine honda oils in this vehicle is not recommended. Should an engine or part failure occur, warranty will not cover these items. It is strongly recommended only genuine honda fluids be used.

[yfin]

I'll quote what it says on the invoice word for word

Please note the use of non genuine honda oils in this vehicle is not recommended. Should an engine or part failure occur, warranty will not cover these items. It is strongly recommended only genuine honda fluids be used.

Ok - sent you PM

[stephen8512]

I thought you said the invoice said they strongly recommend Honda oils.

I am looking for something in writing that says your warranty will be voided using non-Honda oil (even if it meets or exceeds the Honda specifications). A statement like that raises a couple of issues under the Trade Practices Act. In my view it seriously moves into the area of anti-competitive conduct and unless the dealer has a bloody good explanation I think the ACCC will agree.

hahah damn i love it when yoram gets the legal stick out. give em hell!!! :cool: :thumbsup:

[civiceg9]

I bet that dealer doesn't even use original honda oil.. they just buy a big drum of Magnatec or Mobil-Synth-S etc..

They probably do using the same grade
I know Toyota uses Castrol oil in drums, don't know about Honda.
Our Honda FEO Oil we buy is different to the oversea ones. (Is expensive to import oil yourself, I don't see them making $$$ unless they get it from Shell, Castrol, Mobil etc.)

[EuroAccord13]

Honda FEO oils are made by Castrol to Honda Specifications.... Don't think it's feasible to import the actual oil Honda manufactures in Japan...

[EuroAccord13]

don't see why not.:confused:
send by sea container...

Cheaper to produce locally and still charge us an arm and a leg LOL :D and more profits to Honda Australia....

[h22a accord]

interesting thread, im looking forward to hearing the outcome.

[Tobster]

Does that mean Honda won't honour warranties if the cars aren't serviced at a Honda dealer?

I don't have my Euro yet, but as with all our cars I intend to have my brother-in-law service it...

[aaronng]

Does that mean the dealer is voiding their own warranty? :D
Haha....

Dealer: "Sir, your CAI installation caused your cylinders to seize with the engine block. It's not covered under warranty".

Me: "But, you put in your rubbish magnatec. I've got this letter here that says using oils other than Honda FEO voids warranty. Since you voided the warranty before I did, you have to pay for the out of warrranty repairs" :D

[h22a accord]

I think the dealership is using scare tactics to persuade you to pay for their oil so they can make money off it.

[albii]

I think the dealership is using scare tactics to persuade you to pay for their oil so they can make money off it.
BINGO

[PNR888]

If it is minor service (eg 10000km, 30000km,50000km etc) when oil filter is not changed, then fair enough, stick with the same type of engine oil..

However your euro was in for 20000km service which involving oil filter replacement. which means: perfect time to use new/different type of engine oil.

I brought my own shell helix ultra when I was about to have 10000km service, but had been told not to use it due to oil filter and " the difference in rating" dispite the rating range of the shell helix ultra is broader than Honda recommended. I didn't argue with the guy, and the cost of Honda oil is reasonable..

I think the service guy must have over filled the engine oil at my 40000km service.
coz I can't feel any difference in throttle response after this service compare to when I just had 30000km service..

[aaronng]

My dealer insists that the oil filter should be changed at the same time as the oil. They have no problem with me bringing in my own oil too.

[coladuna]

I brought my own shell helix ultra when I was about to have 10000km service, but had been told not to use it due to oil filter and " the difference in rating" dispite the rating range of the shell helix ultra is broader than Honda recommended. I didn't argue with the guy, and the cost of Honda oil is reasonable..

I think the service guy must have over filled the engine oil at my 40000km service.
coz I can't feel any difference in throttle response after this service compare to when I just had 30000km service..

I called them today and asked about it again. He changed his words slightly and said that he only said that because the oil I brought in was incorrect rating. So I said it's BS because the owner's manual specifies that 5W-40 is an acceptable rating and in fact better than Honda engine oil as it covers broader range of temperature. After that, he just tried to change subject.

Would overfilling the engine oil have that much effect on the throttle response. I too was expecting a lot smoothness after the service, but it was rather disappointing. The owner's manual specifies that the full capacity with oil filter is 4.2L and they used up 5L bottle. I plan to drive in tommorow morning and complain. I don't see why I have to drive all the way there due to their own fault when the petrol is freaking expensive already.

[albii]

be carefull...too much oil will stress the engine.and yes will cause sluggishness

[ViHatcher]

No way...I got mine serviced last week w/ Shells 5W-40. Just got asked for reason and never said a word of void warranty as such. I got the oil over 6mths ago from Kmart store wide discounted price. I asked whether any good of FEO and been told so, so... which they use other oil claimed the oil used for racing....Didn't ask further the brand since I am rushing to go home...

Damm...who is right and wrong here :confused: :confused:

Anyway..got another bottle last nite from Kmart with 15% store wide sales too... That will be use for next service for sure.... :D

[V205]

I'll have to drain out my 0.5cm of overfill this weekend.... luckily I have a set of ramps.

[SSML]

From many of my past experience (regardless of which car makers) they normally overfill engine oil (even if using thiers) a bit when u check with the stick.

2 possible reasons I can think of
(1) they take into consideration that u will used up some oil/drip..etc and service interval is quite long, and general publics dont check oil stick regularly, so safer to pour more oil in.
(2) didnt drain out the old oil completely, and just fill in with specified amt of oil.

Having say that: if they fill the whole bottle of 5 L oil, that's insane! too much oil= more resistance, so rev slower.

when I do my DIY oil change, I always put just enough oil in. but I monitor the oil level regualrly, so I know if it's too low (never happend)

there's one occasion when they filled in the whole 5L bottle of Mobile 1 into my v6 Camry, the throddle response was so slow on the way home. I just have to drain some out. I could feel the immediate improvement!

but in ur case, bring ur car in and show them and see what they have to say.. I m pretty sure somewhere in the owners manual also warn u not to overfill (it's ommon sense isnt' it)

[Vtec_inside]

in my view, dude the service guy is trying to use scare an shock tactics as some of u have mention into buying geniune honda oil from the dealership.I know for sure honda dealership themselves don't use geniune FEO for services, they use barral oil, ie magnatec, shell helix plux etc.. most oil this day are pretty good.


As for over filling. A little over is ok, can help protect engine form oil strvation in hard turning where the G force is high. But if it 2 over filled u can cause windish,(think that how it's spelt), where the egine crank has to work harder to chop thru the extra oil that is above the sump. Hence a losss in power.

[yfin]

This is the gist of my discussion with Honda customer care today:

What is the position if a customer uses non-Honda oil in a Honda vehicle during the warranty period?

We do recommend honda lubricants and parts. If you use non-Honda oil - if it is found the oil was the cause of a problem it may void the warranty.

The cause of the failure would need to be investigated though. If the non-Honda oil was found to be the problem then it could raise a warranty issue.

But I know one particular dealer says warranty is voided if there is a failure using non-Honda oil. Is that right?

It would need to be determined that the oil was the cause of the failure.


But what if I use a oil that meets or exceeds Honda specifications? I have been to dealers that use non-Honda oil.


If it meets Honda specifications it is unlikely to be an issue.


So it is not appropriate to say it is automatically voided if you use non Honda oil?


Yes, it is not automatically voided. A failure could occur for different reasons so it needs to be determined the cause of the failure.

[REV888]

Yfin Did you record the conversation ;)

I use Motul 10w-40 now and my dealer has no issues with it what so ever infact they told me to use a 10W-40 oil.

They use Repsol Oil as 1st preference over Honda FEO.

From previous history I have known dealers can give contradicting info to suit there needs.

[coladuna]

This is the email I got from Honda Australia.
It basically says what yfin has posted.

Thank you for your recent email regarding the warranty on your Honda Accord Euro.

If you use a non genuine oil in your vehicle, this will not void your new
car warranty. However, if you encounter a concern with the engine and it is found that the problem is caused by the use of non genuine oil then that problem would not be covered under warranty. All warranty concerns are
judged on a case by case situation and only an authorised Honda Dealership is able to determine a warranty job.

Personally, I find this very funny because it's basically saying two different things at the same time. How are they going to determine whether the problem was due to the engine oil?

Anyway, this certainly proves that Austral Honda was full of dog shit up their arse. I'm going to print this out and shove it in their face next week.

[Eurotony]

I also contacted both Honda & mobil when I decided I wanted to run a full synthetic oil in my Euro. Both Honda & Mobil replied that Mobil 1 10w-30 will be fine because it is to the same specs as the recommended oils. Honda also advised that provided the oil was the same grade or better the warraty will not be effected. I have it in writting from Honda.

[V205]

What if someone change to full synthetic Mobil-1 at 1000km and the engine starts consuming oil due to a bad break in?


I also contacted both Honda & mobil when I decided I wanted to run a full synthetic oil in my Euro. Both Honda & Mobil replied that Mobil 1 10w-30 will be fine because it is to the same specs as the recommended oils. Honda also advised that provided the oil was the same grade or better the warraty will not be effected. I have it in writting from Honda.

[Eurotony]

I have run Mobil 1 10w-30 since the first service. The car has now done 48k, I have no issue's with oil consumption, the oil always remains clean & the engine always goes hard when required. I get great fuel consumption always. :thumbsup:

[tknova]

There are many factors when it comes to oil and warranty.

If you use the recommended spec'd oil you will have no wirries.

But, if you run a incorrect rade like hrp50 (40-70w) and the piston grabs the bore (that's what will most likely happen if you run that weight oil) it would not be coverd because the oil you have put in has caused this problem.

I've spoken to my dealership about oil's and they have no problems about you using your own oil. But my honest service manager said "Most honda dealerships want you to use there oil for one and only reason. $$$"

My 10,000km service is due on monday and i'm going to run 5-40w 100% full synth Motul 8100XS.

It's worth around $60 but it's a damn good oil!

[tknova]

What if someone change to full synthetic Mobil-1 at 1000km and the engine starts consuming oil due to a bad break in?

Hopefully somebody would not be silly enough to do something like that.. But if that happend it usually can be fixed by running a mineral.

My friend bought a brand new spanking BA turbo and the dealer ran fully synthetic in it.. Drank oil like no tomorrow.

I drained all that out for him & put magnatec in her and she didn't use a drop!

After 15,000kms put it on Mobil 1 & she does not drink a thing.

But, first 1000km service is for free & if i was a service mananger and i saw you walk in with that oil i'd tell you to put it away for your next service.

[Eurotony]

What if someone change to full synthetic Mobil-1 at 1000km and the engine starts consuming oil due to a bad break in?
Even though I changed to a fully synthetic just after my first service, because I was unable to get a loan car I did not have the service until I had done 2200km. I then changed to the Mobil 1 10w-30 & put a new filter in myself.
As`mentioned above I have had no issue's with oil consumption at all. :thumbsup: