PDA

View Full Version : Reinforcing the chassis of your car with expandible foam



BiGANG
12-09-2005, 03:06 PM
hey guys,

i was reading a previous thread and someone mentioned injecting expandable foam to reduce flex in the chassis. When this was mentioned i remember the spoon guys doing this when prepping their jazz/fit for tack use in a dvd i had (cant remember which one) would anyone have anymore information about this such as what kind of foam is used, does it make a difference etc. Theoretically however, it should work so im willing to give it a shot, just need to know a bit more info.

thanks guys

BiGANG
13-09-2005, 02:44 PM
anyone?

Dxs
13-09-2005, 03:01 PM
I am interested too...
But it was actually JUN with a DC5 on BMI Vtec Club...

they call the stuff 'urethane foaming'

edit and just found this:
http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/reinforcement/polyurethane-foam-kit/?en

BiGANG
13-09-2005, 03:02 PM
nah they did it with a spoon fit as well, and it was a vtec club video too.. i remember now.. but yeh. it would be interesting to find out whats the story with it

aaronng
13-09-2005, 03:04 PM
urethane foam.

something like this (fear the engrish): http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/reinforcement/polyurethane-foam-kit/?en

Dxs
13-09-2005, 03:08 PM
/\ beat me to it :'(

+ i dont recall a fit on vtec club.. maybe ur getting confued with the spoon boss analysing the fit body?

Zdster
13-09-2005, 03:11 PM
Wouldnt this make the chassis to solid? Ie it is to inflexible to handle changes in road surfaces and the result is ripping the chassie?

aaronng
13-09-2005, 03:14 PM
Usually it's used together with chassis reinforcement.

And I think it was a DC5R that got this urethane treatment.

saxman
13-09-2005, 03:39 PM
Wouldnt this make the chassis to solid? Ie it is to inflexible to handle changes in road surfaces and the result is ripping the chassie?
you can get a variety of densities that'll have different amounts of flex. I've heard it described as reducing chasis flex almost to the point of what a cage would do. So if the chassis doesn't rip with a cage...

SPEEDCORE
13-09-2005, 03:39 PM
I know a bit about it due to its use in AE86's to give them some form of additional strengthening..... 20 year old corolla you can't expect much more ;) .

Anyway......

Its basically a two part product (resin and catalyst style) that expands and fills in chassis rails etc. There are varying percentages of gain in torsional ridgidity, I guess this would be dependant on what car and the effectiveness of its application (if it was done properly). Does it work.... yes it does. Repairs to a car with filled in rails is a bit of a headache apparently.... you can guess why.

There are many reasons why you should not attempt this sort of thing on a road car....

I'll only mention a couple.... this type of foam is ultimately not waterproof and will inhibit the draining/drying of water that finds its way into some areas. So the formation of rust is a problem.

The other thing is the actual filling of chassis and other body frame parts must be done very very carefully. The problem arises in the pouring in of this into the chassis..... as it expands, if there is insufficient preparation of the chassis prior in regard to allowing excess expanding foam to escape, it WILL have the potential to buckle and pop your chassis in certain areas.

Zdster
13-09-2005, 03:54 PM
you can get a variety of densities that'll have different amounts of flex. I've heard it described as reducing chasis flex almost to the point of what a cage would do. So if the chassis doesn't rip with a cage...

So why would you go for this over a cage then? Practicallity . . . . ?

BiGANG
13-09-2005, 04:35 PM
So why would you go for this over a cage then? Practicallity . . . . ?

i'm guessing its a lot cheaper than a cage and also if your car isnt a full time track car the cage can be annoying. so im guessing practicality would be right.
But this in conjunction with a cage would provide even better body rigidity no??

Dxs
13-09-2005, 06:09 PM
just thought i would share an article (i am sure many others have read it):
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0006scc_proj300zx/

SPEEDCORE
14-09-2005, 09:14 AM
Interesting that article mentioned "waterproof/closed cell foam" :thumbsup: cause that is exactly the type of foam you would want to be using.

However I still stand by what I said with regard to the potential to trap water in certain areas if not applied properly.

ekslut
14-09-2005, 09:42 AM
hmm...sounds good. I think I will try to find some prices on this stuff. Sounds not too hard to use too.

saxman
14-09-2005, 09:47 AM
from what I've read about water being trapped into the frames, that's more of a problem with foams that contain some water in them and trapping it in... not the foam trapping other water in.

ekslut
14-09-2005, 09:47 AM
Found the website for the one they used in the article.

http://www.foamseal.com/auto_aftermarket.htm

About $183us before shipping for 5 kits (which is how many they needed for a 300zx)

Not too bad if its as good as they say it is

BiGANG
14-09-2005, 10:57 AM
do u think it would be a common mod to track cars in australia? $183 USD is pretty decent it might be a worthwhile mod/

aaronng
14-09-2005, 12:07 PM
I think it's a good mod, but for a track car. If it was your daily driver, imagine the problems you'd have if you needed to do some repairs!

saxman
14-09-2005, 02:42 PM
I think it's a good mod, but for a track car. If it was your daily driver, imagine the problems you'd have if you needed to do some repairs!
I don't know about out there, but out here, at least for most hondas, if you do enough damage to damage the frame, the car is going to be totalled anyway.

Dylanamus
23-06-2007, 04:49 PM
http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=162693

http://www.autofoam.com.my/Reviews/VSixersReview.htm

http://www.stormowners.com/GSOPDatacenter/index.cfm/fa/view/id/110

http://www.importtuner.com/features/0611impp_skunk_2_acura_rsx_turbo/photo_07.html

http://www.importtuner.com/features/0611impp_skunk_2_acura_rsx_turbo/photo_23.html

This is definitely one of the most impacting modifications you can do to improve the handling of your car. There are no downsides. Sure, it is irreversible, so repairs would be very difficult. However, you are talking about pillars that are integral areas of the chassis. Usually if chassis beams are damaged, they cannot be repaired for road safety reasons. The urethane would actually lesson damages imparted from impacts and potentially prevent unrepairable damages taking place.

Thought I would add a couple of photos that display additional "street legal" rigidity modifications that can be substituted for a ROPS.

gerard
23-06-2007, 08:01 PM
yeah, I had read that this was used by rally cars previously to increase chasiss rigidity.
I've also read that some civic brethren from Singapore and Malaysia are using the foam but to improve NVH.
note that care must be exercised as the foam can be v messy before it sets. also some cavities may house auto components like seat belt retractors

Dxs
24-06-2007, 04:27 PM
There are no downsides.
waterlogging
reinforcement may strain weaker chassis parts
possible uneven reinforcement




do it anyway
and u can be guinea pig

Dylanamus
24-06-2007, 06:43 PM
Just gotta do it properly.

Muzz
29-06-2007, 05:13 PM
I know a bit about it due to its use in AE86's to give them some form of additional strengthening..... 20 year old corolla you can't expect much more ;) .

Anyway......

Its basically a two part product (resin and catalyst style) that expands and fills in chassis rails etc. There are varying percentages of gain in torsional ridgidity, I guess this would be dependant on what car and the effectiveness of its application (if it was done properly). Does it work.... yes it does. Repairs to a car with filled in rails is a bit of a headache apparently.... you can guess why.

There are many reasons why you should not attempt this sort of thing on a road car....

I'll only mention a couple.... this type of foam is ultimately not waterproof and will inhibit the draining/drying of water that finds its way into some areas. So the formation of rust is a problem.

The other thing is the actual filling of chassis and other body frame parts must be done very very carefully. The problem arises in the pouring in of this into the chassis..... as it expands, if there is insufficient preparation of the chassis prior in regard to allowing excess expanding foam to escape, it WILL have the potential to buckle and pop your chassis in certain areas.

:thumbsup: Another reason why its not such a great idea, is it can make repairs amost impossible, if not EXTREEMLY expensive in minior accidents. EDIT: Whoops, already mentioned!

Also, cage in a street car is not a good idea, infact id say its a very very bad idea. Its extreemly dangerous, turning minor accidents into fatalitys, that is unless your drive around town wearing a helmet. (think of a watermelon being throwen at goal posts, SPLAT).

Dylanamus
29-06-2007, 06:08 PM
Muzzberry: It's actually a part of the road authirty requirements (in every state) for any street going vehicle equiped with a ROPS to have all areas of the cage that the head can hit fully covered with protective impact dampening foam. The thickness and quality of protection is a specific requirement, authorised by the state's road authority. I would suggest if they are willing to pass the cage as a road worthy modification if adhered to their guidelines, that it is not going to really decrease the safety at all - otherwise their approval for a street driven ROPS equiped vehicle would be a severe legal liability for them.

Drew
29-06-2007, 06:43 PM
Roll cages without a harness is a really really really bad idea...
and the other way around

A harness is a bad idea without a roll cage as you will end up breaking your neck if you roll the car; and they won't be able to get you out without killing you, should you survive in the first place.

Totally agree with Muzz
Disagree with Dylanamus; just because its legal doesn't make it safe

Muzz
29-06-2007, 07:33 PM
Yes padding makes it slightly safer and legal, but still certainly not safe, its still a large danger! There have been plenty of studies reguarding this. The only way it is considered safe is with both padding on the halo bar and wearing a helmet, padding alone is not enough to absorb the impact of a bare head.
Cages arnt made for street vechicles whos owner wants some extra stiffness, full stop.

Dylanamus
29-06-2007, 09:08 PM
For more serious bracing without being unsafe, what about a half cage, floor bracing and a torsion beam under the A pillar (through/behind the dash)?

I didn't mean to imply that a padded ROPS is safer than no ROPS at all, more that it isn't as bad as you made out... but given that it is legal if done properly, I wouldn't hesitate to keep my car registered in order to drive to and from events.

goforthandmultiplys2
01-07-2007, 01:26 PM
This foam also induces rapid corrosion if it comes into contact with bare metal...even a scratch

Muzz
01-07-2007, 06:26 PM
Really, where did you hear that?

aaronng
01-07-2007, 10:38 PM
I've never heard that either. I just checked the patents on 2-pac urethane foam manufacture and no corrosion problems are reported.

mr173
02-07-2007, 01:54 AM
ok, so if I want to try it out for my car, where i can get these foam in oz? the autofoam from malaysia is repackaged product from Wurth.
Of cause we can't air mail them as they are in spray can.
But I have searched Wurth Australia, seem they dont' have it.
http://www.wurth.com.au/
any suggestion? I think spray foam much easier to use compare with 2 pac one.

Int3gra-T
02-07-2007, 07:24 AM
if the expandable foam isnt used properly it can actually bend your frame,
they use it also to fill wall gaps..
its been known to blow out walls lol,
good luck!:)

aaronng
02-07-2007, 07:47 AM
ok, so if I want to try it out for my car, where i can get these foam in oz? the autofoam from malaysia is repackaged product from Wurth.
Of cause we can't air mail them as they are in spray can.
But I have searched Wurth Australia, seem they dont' have it.
http://www.wurth.com.au/
any suggestion? I think spray foam much easier to use compare with 2 pac one.

You have to use 2-pac because you can't fill all the gaps with spray foam.