JDM DC2R T/B + I/M + b16a-> Worthwhile upgrade?

[sesshoumaru]

I've been able to source a JDM B18C ITR Throttle Body and Intake Manifold for relatively cheap (i think).

How would you guys rate this as a mod for a B16A?

This would go on my car with my I/H/E and ECU.

btw, is there any difference between JDM/AUDM for these parts? Does it matter what year ITR the parts are from?

thanks!

[genesis]

The coolant holes in the itr intake manifold won't match the b16 head.

[McChook]

I might be wrong, but the inlet should not make a difference,as to the best of myknowledge, it is pretty much the same as the B16, and with your current mods, I dont feel the 10mm larger throttle body will make a single difference....

I am sure someone can correct me if I am off the mark

[tinkerbell]

The coolant holes in the itr intake manifold won't match the b16 head.

WTF???

um, the R head IS a B16A head dude... it will be a perfect fit :)

and YES it will make a nice difference - especially if you can modify hte A/F ratios eg via a VAFC

ALSO the inlet is very different and will provide good gains

Mr Chook where did you get 10mm from?


maybe people should sit a knowledge test before being able to provide advice on the internet?!?!

[genesis]

tinkerbell, my mistake sorry... I've seen hondata intake gasket for a ITR and it doesn't line up with b18c head, quite strange.

[tinkerbell]

B18C what?

B18C2, B18C7??

both are entirely different things...

a B18C2 head is the P72 - for the VTiR/GSR

a B18C7 head is the PR3 - for the Type R/B16A

[genesis]

Yeh it was a b18c2...

i might see if I can grab that gasket off him now lol

[eknine]

check one of the post by hondar

http://www.ozhonda.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=48318#48318

[weezer]

I have an ITR Intake manifold and T/B on my B16A. In my opinion, not a worthwhile upgrade unless u do some internal work.

However, together with my 4-1 headers and a bit of tuning, i managed to get power to 8,600 (maybe more, but i told them to stop), with stock cams.

Yes it does bolt up, you will have to use the ITR fuel rail and idle control, but other than that, its a straight swap

[tinkerbell]

oh yeah - R cams will be good too...!

[hondar]

I've been able to source a JDM B18C ITR Throttle Body and Intake Manifold for relatively cheap (i think).

How would you guys rate this as a mod for a B16A?

This would go on my car with my I/H/E and ECU.

btw, is there any difference between JDM/AUDM for these parts? Does it matter what year ITR the parts are from?

thanks!

howdie,

a quick question again. what is you goal? it is advisable to know your goal first before buying any parts. When you know your goal, then you buy parts to support and fulfill your goal and not the other way round. hope this little advise helps.

hondar

[sesshoumaru]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Weezer: can i expect the fuel rail and idle control to come with the intake manifold? or is that another seperate cost?

Hondar: umm, i guess my goal is to max out my engine? I will be going 'mostly' NA :P. The intake manifold + t/b were on my 'things to eventually buy' list, but since i've found some for a good price... i might just snap them up sooner than planned.

i'm keen on doing small upgrades like this which may not have a HUGE HUGE power increase, but are useful in the end.

[VTEChnique]

maybe people should sit a knowledge test before being able to provide advice on the internet?!?!

:D yeah I hear ya HAHAAHA

JDM ITR TB is the best OEM TB you can get !!

[weezer]

Weezer: can i expect the fuel rail and idle control to come with the intake manifold? or is that another seperate cost?



If u just unbolt the manifold off the head, then it should be all there. Not sure if you can use the ITR injectors (impedance values?). but the B16A injectors with be fine

[[[d a n n y]]]

this is what i am after too..

ITR manifodl

[hondar]

mate,

again what do you mean by max out? it is subjective i would say. a max out mean to squeeze every liitle power out the engine which going to cost you top $$$. You need to have a figure in mind and work from there. Otherwise if you aim nothing, you hit nothing.

cheers
hondar

[Civic Type R]

i saw a dyno test on a B16A with prelude H22A injectors on a B18 fuel rail.
No gains in performance were recorded.

[VTEChnique]

i saw a dyno test on a B16A with prelude H22A injectors on a B18 fuel rail.
No gains in performance were recorded.

That's great adam - but he's talking about ITR Throttle Body and Intake manifold.. do you know what these are ??

:D

H22a injectors and B18 fuel rail ??? THAT would only increase the POTENTIAL to deliver more fuel.. you'd still have to have some ECU tweak to tell the injectors to extend their cycle ie. deliver more fuel.. B18 fuel rail is same as B16 anyhow.. but THIS is off topic.

THROTTLE BODY AND INTAKE MANIFOLD enables more Air flow ability thanks to a slightly larger diameter and improved flow runners on the manifold... MAYBE after he fits the TB and manifold, he will be able to take advantage of higher-flow injectors..

More air + More Fuel = More power.

[hondar]

i saw a dyno test on a B16A with prelude H22A injectors on a B18 fuel rail.
No gains in performance were recorded.

i didnt expect any. yes it is off topic and your ecu control the fuel. even if you have the biggest injector, it will still be the same.

fuel rail got nothing to do with performance. b16=b18 fuel rail.

[hondar]

THROTTLE BODY AND INTAKE MANIFOLD enables more Air flow ability thanks to a slightly larger diameter and improved flow runners on the manifold... MAYBE after he fits the TB and manifold, he will be able to take advantage of higher-flow injectors..

More air + More Fuel = More power.

In my humble opinion even you fit TB and manifold you still cant take advantage of the h22 injector cos the ecu control it.

You choose throttle body and intake manifold to suit where you want your powerband to be located along the rpm range

In the same way it affect where PEAK TORQUE will be located along the rpm range.

And you want the PEAK TORQUE each time the gear is shift. It has got to do with your gear ratio of your car as well. You need to know them as You want to shift at the point it landed at the Peak Torque so that you dont waste time climbing up to your peak torque again.

Torque what accelerates your car from eg 10km->11km->12km.

Your intake system must be matched with your exhaust system as well.

You will have maximum torque when your exhaust speed travels at 240-260ft per second. Thats why the diameter of the exhaust system is important as well. The bigger the diameter, the greater your peark torque is and pushes the band to higher rpm.
Obviously you cant go to big as there is a limit for an N/A car to go.

Know your goal and plan from there. all parts work together to achieve your goal.

hope it is helpful.

hondar

[BLKCRX]

Technically even thow its off topic standard b16 or b18 injectors are 240cc, prelude injectors are 320cc, if you install prelude injectors into a b16 or b18 you WILL over fuel the engine, more fuel dos’t always mean more power like anything you need a ECU to tune the engine to take full advantage.

If you have a car which is running 240cc injectors and you install 480cc injectors (440’s) you will supply typical twice as much fuel to the engine than required, of corse there’s a lot more to it than that, but in summary standard injectors are fine for most mild changes, 440’s will be fine for most major NA mods, but having said that as long as your ECU can control larger injectors it dos’t hurt running larger than required.

I’m using 1000cc injectors on my 1.6L B16 engine and they sit at 1-2% duty cycle when cruising. Part throttle response is perfect, and fuel economy is fantastic, around 500km per 30L. (Highway driving)

As for fuel rails, Honda made 2 types of Fuel rail’s one a Block Fuel rail which is actually there BEST design and flows a lot more fuel than the newer tune design used on the type R’s.

I ran with the Block fuel rail and pushed over 550hp at the engine on a b16.

Regards James

[Civic Type R]

That's great adam - but he's talking about ITR Throttle Body and Intake manifold.. do you know what these are ??
:D
haha funny boy :D

[Civic Type R]

In my humble opinion even you fit TB and manifold you still cant take advantage of the h22 injector cos the ecu control it.hondar
Thats exactly correct. This was the purpose of that specific dyno bede.

[TODA AU]

Using a JDM B18C ITR Throttle Body and Intake Manifold on a B16A without an appropriate cam change will lose power...
The lost power can be reclaimed via ECU tuning but you will not move forward much...
IMO it's a bit hard to justify without cams...

[sesshoumaru]

OK... thanks for the help guys.

With my car i'm working on a budget. I'd sure love to buy tons of goods all at once, but i simply can't afford that. I came across the IM/TB for sale, and the price ain't too bad. So i might just buy them, and save them for later.

That said, i may bolt them on and get my car tuned... or i might just wait until i have cams, cam gears, etc. and then tune it all at once to save costs.

hondar: unfortunatly i do NOT have a specific power output in mind. But i guess i AM looking for around 120fwkw+. Running a 50hp Nitrous shot in the mix too that is!

[Civic Type R]

Thanks heaps Toda AU :)
why does it lose power ?

[TODA AU]

Thanks heaps Toda AU :)
why does it lose power ?

Gass speed, resonance & tuning.

[DynoDave]

Thanks Toda AU I think I have been telling them the same thing everytime they ask about how much power doing this and that mod will give them.TUNING the ECU will give you the full potenial of your mods just remember that something as important as an intake manifold/throttle body/cams makes major changes to air flow. More airflow+same fuel = lean AFR's which will cause detonation,Honda ECU's use MAP to reference engine load so by changing airflow with an intake/throttle body will not change the MAP at wide open throttle it will still read 0".
Regards Dyno Dave

[razztech]

I'm jumping on the band wagon as well ;) toda australia and dyno dave is absalutly corect.........