TODA Cams VS CTR Cams VS SIR-2 Cams

[[[d a n n y]]]

ok boyz and galz..

i have a simple question

as i am still learning about this engine stuff..

on a b16a would a ctr cam will work better or a toda cam specificly B spec will work better i want mild upgrade on the power..

and is it worth while to spend the extra cash to get toda b spec ? or ctr will do?

and secondly if i upgrade the engine to CTR spec cams pistons rings and so on..etc will i see a margnal power gain
is it more efficient than spoon or mugen or toda parts?


is the CTR cam much different to the SIR-2 cam?

thanks for the help..

[eknine]

you want a mild cam then go for Toda A:)

mate, if you are changing everything, why don't just get an engine better...like a b18c;)...enjoy ur ride for now and go cams + cams gears if you want to:)

i'm sure Toda OZ->Adrian will be glad to help out if u are keen in buying<laffz>

[McChook]

Toda B's for sure mate.
Toda A's are the first spec above ITR
I thought CTR cams were slightly upspec from ITR, but almost equal to Toda A.
I thought SiR II cams were simillar to ITR cams... not 100% on that

But, remember, you have to change valves springs for Toda B's and C's. I recomemend Iskandarian (Isky) valves springs. They released them last week, $120 a set.... I believe the toda springs are more expensive, but Isky's are the shiznit - We ususually use Mugen Valve springs, but not cheap, so Isky's are the next best.

I am sure Adrian can be more specific, there is only so much you can get off the net

And B18's are not "better".. what a stupid thing to say to a man who has spent - a long time - waiting for his car to be finished.... inconsiderate p

[wynode]

CTR intake cams are more aggresive and have a longer duration than the ITR intake cam. Exhaust cams are the same.

But I agree with eknine. Danny, I suggest you wait till your car is ready and drive it a bit before choosing to upgrade it. Upgrading to CTR spec isn't a simple job. You have to strip the engine and swap out the pistons. A lot of $$$ if you're not doing it yourself!

But if you wanted more power in the first place, then you definitely should have gone for the b18c.

[[[d a n n y]]]

hm...nah..i will stay with the b16a..

b18c7 a mayb but i wanna run with the b16a

so yeah...

which cams r better option of the money?

[BLKCRX]

why gets Toda B... just get Toda C's !!! Toda are by far the best cams you can get !!! hands down. You just need to tune your car to take full advantage of them.. and yeah b's and C's both require spring changes so why not go for C's ;-)

Plus if you look at all the data C's make more power ova b's and a's EVEYWHERE !!

Spend the extra money and buy Toda Cam's !!! there totaly worth it TODA ROCKS !! after all TODA USA have the fastest NA car in the world !!

Regards James

[[[d a n n y]]]

i dont want full on i want a mild drivable fast car..

not a full on race car..

my car will be a daily driven car..

[DarkCoupe]

yeah man not everyone wants to spend tens of thousands of dollers on mods ...

some are just happy with some mild mods for a little upgrade in the power ...

[hondar]

danny.

you need to define what is "mild driveable fast car".

The word "mild" is subjective. To each his own perception.

it is better to put in a number. What is your desired goal? If you know your goal in terms on what you want to achiece, then you can look for parts to achieve that.

And no one in this world has all the money to spend it at one go. Most of us and yes even myself, save up bit by bit to buy stuffs we want. Thats why if we know the goal, you wont be buying unnecassary things.

A lot of people will tell you buy XXX brand or buy YYY brand. At the end of the day you must decide yourself.

For a start, i will provide with this info.

Stock Integra Vtir/gsr cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 10.6mm, duration is 230 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 9.mm, duration is 227 degree @ 1mm

ITR cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 11.5mm, duration is 240 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 10.5mm, duration is 235 degree @ 1mm

CTR cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 11.5mm, duration is 243 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 10.5mm, duration is 235 degree @ 1mm

Toda A cams
Intake lift - 11.6mm, duration is 250 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 11.2mm, duration is 240 degree @ 1mm

Toda B cams
Intake lift - 12mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 12mm, duration is 245 degree @ 1mm

Toda C cams
Intake lift - 12.5mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 12.5mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm

Spoon cams
Intake lift - 11.54mm, duration is 256 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 11.13mm, duration is 245 degree @ 1mm

FYI,

Lift: Lift is the height that the valve is lifted off of the valve seat.

Duration: Duration is the number of degrees of crank rotation that the valve is help open by the cam. One full cycle is 720 degree or two complete rotation of the CRANK.

Also you need to have the right COMPRESSION for each of the cams used.

To quote:
When you upgrade cams you should do 4 things:

1. change to the valvesprings that were proven not to coil bind at the cam's max. lift on a Spintron test but not go overly stiff to create excessively high valve seat pressures (stock 40 lb., Toda valvesprings 50 lb., max. acceptable range is 70-90 lb. at 33.66 mm installed valvespring height) causing wear.

if you don't upgrade the valvesprings, even though the company says it's ok to use the stock ones, you still will see mild valve float. Mild valve float is not catastrophic compared to severe valve float or coil binding.

But you know what valve float is right?
The spring has fatigued at high rpm and loses it's ability to control the rate at which the valve closes against the seat. The valveface slams shut against the seat and transfers this shock or load up the valve stem to the rocker arm and then to the camshaft lobe-rocker arm interface. You get extra wear-related damage and possibly structural fatigue at the valve seat, valveface, rocker arm lobe, valvespring retainer, and cam lobe. Valve float can be identified on a chassis dynosheet as a sudden very sharp or steep drop in hp (in the order of 5% [7-10 whp] or more) at the last 500-600 rpm before the redline.

2. ensure that valvespring installed height is stock (1.320-1.325 in. or 33.53-33.66 mm) and check that the lost motion devices (for VTEC cams) are all present.

3. use assembly lube on the cams during install and do the proper oil change maintenance schedule.

4. Ensure the install is at TDC throughout including the timing belt install. Use a new timing belt or a stronger aftermarket belt, if the mileage (every 40-60,000 miles) or camshaft/application (Toda Spec B,C,D, Killer, or Jun Type 3, or race engine) warrants it. If you can, have the cams degreed. Ensure that the valve lash was set to the camshaft manufacturer's specs, the cam gears & cam journals were oriented and torqued down correctly using Honda's or the manufacturer's specs, and the timing belt is tensioned correctly (no flapping).

Even though you are asking people or mechanic to do it for you, it is good that you know all this stuffs. POINT 2 is important when you choose valve springs.

I will stop here and let you digest the knowledge, we will go from here if anything is unclear to you.

hondar

[[[d a n n y]]]

mate this guy is a pro thanks mate..i will question any unsure points

[hondar]

no worries,

dont worry about asking anything, no one learn anyhting by keeping quite. we start somewhere and is a hardwork i know. keep exploring and thats half the fun as well. knowing what you are doing and not doing becos everybody else says so.

hondar

[[[d a n n y]]]

well my goal is this

with my current sir-2 motor i wanna increse 20kw or so more atw figure..

includeing ecu and tuning..

what way's do u think i should take?

[hondar]

is your car 118kw.

At the wheel is about 15% off for manual car and 30% off for auto. (estimate)

So it is abt 100.3kw atw at the moment.

plus another 20kw atw, so it is about 120kw atw.

Thats about what a type r is at the wheel. you can extract a bit more with proper intake and exhaust system. with tuning you can extract even more.

Now, if you have this in mind, do you think it is easier what to know what to do after you know your goal?

i am not going to spoon feed you, less people think that im biased towards one side. in this forum, you can get all the cams you want easily to be honest. You just need to know what you want.

Always the no.1 barrier is MONEY..hhahahah

And there is no short cut, you need to pay what it is worth for and decide as well how much you want to spend.

cheers
hondar

[[[d a n n y]]]

thanks alot hondar advice taken..will look and save money..up..

[Setanta]

Danny: SiR/SiR II has been a designation around since 1989. SiR II is just a varient of the SiR with the EGs and EFs - I'm not sure about the EKs.

http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/civic/8ch-ka-709/line_up.html#SiR2

EK SiRs are the same as our VTiRs but with approx 8 more bhp.

Hondar: Danny is running the EG6 B16A which runs 170ps, not the 160ps.

[TODA AU]

]]well my goal is this

with my current sir-2 motor i wanna increse 20kw or so more atw figure..

includeing ecu and tuning..

what way's do u think i should take?

To get what you’re after, get the following parts…
Spec B camshafts + valve springs + vernier cam pulleys + heavy duty oil pump gear + Hondata + fuel pump + fuel reg + Intake / header / exhaust

[eknine]

i don't want to sound rude, but why must it be hondata? :roll:

[TODA AU]

eknine -
The best bang for bucks & road legal solution was offered...
Obviously there are other alternatives,
However the value for money of these products just isn't as good.

Example... Power FC...
Very convenient & easy to install...
Bothersome to hard tune...

E-manage...
Cheap, reliable & efficient...
However, no rev limit increase is available..
Nor does it offer advanced options...

Motec...
A most excellent system for a premium price...
But... You do get what you pay for...

Microtech...
It'll do the job...

Need more be said?

[Jim80y]

]]well my goal is this

with my current sir-2 motor i wanna increse 20kw or so more atw figure..

includeing ecu and tuning..

what way's do u think i should take?

To get what you’re after, get the following parts…
Spec B camshafts + valve springs + vernier cam pulleys + heavy duty oil pump gear + Hondata + fuel pump + fuel reg + Intake / header / exhaust

Would the stock headgasket and timing belt suffice for this setup?

[eknine]

thx Adrian:)

[TODA AU]

Would the stock headgasket and timing belt suffice for this setup?

Yes... The standard parts will be fine for this application...

If you plan to use sustained 8500rpm+ (that is a circuit engine)
A TODA timing belt is a good idea.
Regarding the head gasket,
Not necessary if compression isn't increased via pistons.

NB: Increasing compression via head gasket aka Spoon / Mugen etc...
Will not work with real high performance camshafts due to high valve lift.
I.e.: Thin head gaskets only work on wee wee playing set-ups...

[McChook]

[NB: Increasing compression via head gasket aka Spoon / Mugen etc...
Will not work with real high performance camshafts due to high valve lift.
I.e.: Thin head gaskets only work on wee wee playing set-ups...

Interesting. We use Spec C's on a 200+fwhp IPRA civic - you know the car. Running now, a very high compression ratio... (more than 12.6), and use a 2 layer Mugen Head Gasket....

Don't tell me we need to change the camshafts again..... Obviously, this isn;t a pee wee playing set-up....

[TODA AU]

In the context of chasing an extra 20 or so kw @ the wheels...
I stand by what I said...

[[[d a n n y]]]

]]well my goal is this

with my current sir-2 motor i wanna increse 20kw or so more atw figure..

includeing ecu and tuning..

what way's do u think i should take?

To get what you’re after, get the following parts…
Spec B camshafts + valve springs + vernier cam pulleys + heavy duty oil pump gear + Hondata + fuel pump + fuel reg + Intake / header / exhaust

ok that's the basic's i need also i was thinking of getting a spoon head gasket..

TODA AU will u b able to hook me up with theses parts for a resonable price?

my goal is to have a fast track car with good sussy set up and a fast running car in a stragith line...

anywayz i though n/a cars need to have higher compression in order to run good HP

[ATSE]

http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB16&Number=2055374&page= 0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[[[d a n n y]]]

thanks all..

[[[d a n n y]]]

Danny: SiR/SiR II has been a designation around since 1989. SiR II is just a varient of the SiR with the EGs and EFs - I'm not sure about the EKs.

http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/civic/8ch-ka-709/line_up.html#SiR2

EK SiRs are the same as our VTiRs but with approx 8 more bhp.

Hondar: Danny is running the EG6 B16A which runs 170ps, not the 160ps.

EK's have sir-ii's as well pete.. 8)

[hondar]

your aim is not to get the highest compression but the RIGHT compression rate to build fast car.

Build your car with the goal in mind and select the cams and choose the right compression to support it.

Dont follow everyone else compression cos is different in every set-up.

Like i mentioned before somewhere, you need to calculate both STATIC and DYNAMIC compression for your setup.

Generally most of the time we know the static one. Dynamic is hardly known to people and there is a website where you can calculate that.

[[[d a n n y]]]

yes after all the research i still have alot to go..but my questions r answered

toda cam gear

toda A

ECu

headgasket

ITR mandifold..


u can lock the thread now..

[hondar]

valve springs and pistons?

[[[d a n n y]]]

the stock b16a vavle springs r ok or i might have to up em with type R

but that's the list for now..

[Civic Type R]

This is a very good thread !
If only everyone with Cams questions would stop by and read it we wouldnt get repeated questions.
Hondar, nice work :)

[[[d a n n y]]]

thanks mate ;)

(steals credit form hondar)

[hondar]

1. change to the valvesprings that were proven not to coil bind at the cam's max. lift on a Spintron test but not go overly stiff to create excessively high valve seat pressures (stock 40 lb., Toda valvesprings 50 lb., max. acceptable range is 70-90 lb. at 33.66 mm installed valvespring height) causing wear.

if you don't upgrade the valvesprings, even though the company says it's ok to use the stock ones, you still will see mild valve float. Mild valve float is not catastrophic compared to severe valve float or coil binding.

But you know what valve float is right?
The spring has fatigued at high rpm and loses it's ability to control the rate at which the valve closes against the seat. The valveface slams shut against the seat and transfers this shock or load up the valve stem to the rocker arm and then to the camshaft lobe-rocker arm interface. You get extra wear-related damage and possibly structural fatigue at the valve seat, valveface, rocker arm lobe, valvespring retainer, and cam lobe. Valve float can be identified on a chassis dynosheet as a sudden very sharp or steep drop in hp (in the order of 5% [7-10 whp] or more) at the last 500-600 rpm before the redline.


hondar

your b16 valve spring wont do good. you need to upgrade it. A type r valve springs will do for Toda A, or if you are buying as a package, no harm getting one. And ensure that valvespring installed height is stock (1.320-1.325 in. or 33.53-33.66 mm)

all the best and keep us posted with any updates. cheers ;)

[[[d a n n y]]]

hm...i see..

need them both do i?

[TODA AU]

]]hm...i see..

need them both do i?

Fit ITR valve springs to your intake valves & move your existing intake valve springs to your exhaust valves...
Your other option is to fit Toda springs...
Though some would tell you Spec A cams are a drop in...
Valve float will occur @ high rpm with standard valve springs fitted.

Just a though, if you do streach the budget for Toda springs,
You aught to use Spec B cams over the A's as you're doing the ECU...
This will offer you better bang for your bucks...
Trust me, the low-end torque gains will more than justify this desision.
Also, the actual cost of the pair of cams is the same... (A, B or C)
Cheers

Adrian

Also - Pm answered...

[Qwooootz]

Hi guys, sorri to intrude a new question about cams in this thread..

Would it be a wise choice to change my cams, valve springs and retainers from a B16a2 USDM to a b16B or a B18c5 /7 /8's cams, valves and retainers? rather than go buy aftermarket ones like Spoon etc..

[SEPSIR]

i hav a 95 JDM EG6 Civic SIR II....i also want to do what [[danny]] wants...i am looking for CTR cams n want to know where i can get them in melb???

toNy

[TODA AU]

i hav a 95 JDM EG6 Civic SIR II....i also want to do what [[danny]] wants...i am looking for CTR cams n want to know where i can get them in melb???

toNy

Contact Z10

[TODA AU]

Hi guys, sorri to intrude a new question about cams in this thread..

Would it be a wise choice to change my cams, valve springs and retainers from a B16a2 USDM to a b16B or a B18c5 /7 /8's cams, valves and retainers? rather than go buy aftermarket ones like Spoon etc..Cams - good.
For best effect using OEM cams, use B16B intake camshaft & B18C7 exhaust camshaft
Valve springs - good
Use type R intake double valve springs & move your existing intake double valve springs to the exhaust side.
Intake valves - good
Exhaust valves - identical to what you've already got.
Buying Type R items is a waste of money if there is nothing wrong with what you've got.
Lost motion assemblies - good
Type R items are better. (more robust.)
Retainers - OEM = Ok to 8500rpm. Use Titanium for sustained 9,000rpm+
Nb: B16B~B18C Cams run out of puff past 8500 anyway.
Spoon valve train parts are re-manufactured OEM parts
- do it yourself & save your money.
Port the B16A head you have to out flow a Type R equivelant.
(Do not let just anyone do this job - this can make or break your engine)

[edw-R]

I used Toda A cam before. I am using Toda B cam now. I am happy with Toda B cam. Toda B cam give me more power all the way with B18C7.

[kousoku]

oi is this true, each toda cam costs 1000+ ?? so for my 4 cylinder car, i would need four of these?
plus springs which could cost? 150+? is that each or for a set?....

[spoondc2]

oi is this true, each toda cam costs 1000+ ?? so for my 4 cylinder car, i would need four of these?
plus springs which could cost? 150+? is that each or for a set?....
You need 2 cams only :) $xxxx for 2
16 inner springs and 16 outer springs? $xxx for whole set
1 set of cam gear $xxx a set

[kousoku]

alright, so the price of $1000 for a toda cam, i would need 2. = ~2000.
then for springs i would need 1 set = ~250

which means in total to boost my performance by HOW MUCH??!?!?

would = ~$2250.
ps. can someone please answer the boosting of performance question?...as u can see i'm kinda a noob.

[Limbo]

It would depend on all your other setup, engine, CAI, exhaust..., ECU or aftermarket. (you might want a port and polish while your there). And I believe, correct me if i'm wrong, you would have to have the current ECU remapped or go aftermarket to get the full advantages.I don't believe anyone could give you an estimation until after it is done and you get the thing dynoed.

[kousoku]

how about a crude estimate though?

and is the pricing about right?

lol instillation costs too i guess...
damn modding car soo expensive.

[TODA AU]

Do a search ladies...
TODA cam prices are here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13679

[Garage-R]

Hi ya I think the best way to gain 20kw or 28hp out of a b16a would be to mill the head 60thou (give's you 10hp and increase comp by .2) add cam gears and have them tuned (10hp easily) and last but not least throw in a set of type-r cam's (10hp)
so there's you're 30hp and i have seen this combo work very well on one of my customers car and it only cost all up 1990 inc of labour and parts and of course dyno time,
oh and by the way i sell itr cams for 550 exchange


oops, this has been put in the wrong spot, first time ok :honda:

[panda[cRx]]

Do a search ladies...
TODA cam prices are here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13679

are they?


Last edited by TODA AU : 20-03-2005 at 05:11 AM. Reason: Offer withdrawn

guessing that was a sale price then, so what's your regular 'ozhonda price'? :p

[TODA AU]

']are they?



guessing that was a sale price then, so what's your regular 'ozhonda price'? :p

Yup...
Newer thread is here...
Sorry...
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17204

[daniel b16a]

link cant work....neways u said toda a.b or c all cost the same rite? and this is a noob question....if i juz wanna do the top head of my motor meaning cams and valve springs and retainers and gears....would else would i need? do i really need to change gasket and fuel pump? im gettin power fc soon.....also what cams would giv most power....i heard correcnt me if im wrong that spec c cams are uselless as my pistons and crank wont take it coz im still gona used stock b16a2 pistons...and it would be best most to gain power from spec b coz im using stock pistons and all? not sure...thanks

[TODA AU]

link cant work....neways u said toda a.b or c all cost the same rite? and this is a noob question....if i juz wanna do the top head of my motor meaning cams and valve springs and retainers and gears....would else would i need? do i really need to change gasket and fuel pump? im gettin power fc soon.....also what cams would giv most power....i heard correcnt me if im wrong that spec c cams are uselless as my pistons and crank wont take it coz im still gona used stock b16a2 pistons...and it would be best most to gain power from spec b coz im using stock pistons and all? not sure...thanks

It's all about combination.
What exhaust, what header, what intake, what ecu, what other mods, who built it, who tuned it bla bla bla
Email me...

[kayot1k]

Shiet, go adrian !

[[[d a n n y]]]

jeeez this threads still alive.. lol

[daniel b16a]

what i have gathered the best cams or the ones u can get most power of is at least toda spec b's which is nearly the same as jun type 2 rite? meaning the cams which u get most power frm? coz if u get c's and have stock bottome end pistons etc then thrs no use??!! im not sure...juz herd

[BlitZ]

Honda makes power from its head.. jsut remember that.. the bottom end is only there to provide the compression.

However with that said you will need the bottom end to create compression.

Crazy cams requires crazy compression else you wont be able to take advantage of the cams.


TODA B's are preferred choice as they will give a nice noticable gain. Toda A gains are really mild and alot of people are disappointed (different horses for different courses).
TODA C's require quiet high compression to utlise. That is why the std bottom end wont support it. That makes it also not less suitable for a B16, even with an upgraded bottom end. A b16 has less air to push through you will need a higher comp than a b18 to utlise the same cams effectivly.

And it initial question.. (I doubt [danny] is still interested)
ahahah CTR cams will only require std valve train with maybe just valve spring change over..
B Spec requires overhall of valve train...
Complete different in price and power... CTR are lower spec than the Toda A's even


Just my 2 cents worth,, correct what ever you think is wrong

[dsp26]

WHERE can I buy the Iskandarian springs??

[tseesinngwailo]

This is an awesome thread, thanks to all the people with great knowledge contributing, I have a B16A in my DA Integra, I would like a bit more power and there has been some great information here, but like a few here, am also on a tight budget, realistically, Type R or CTR cams and Toda or similar springs and retainers would be a good start combined with Cam Gears and ECU? is there a need to go nuts on Hondata and the rest or will something like a Spoon ECU (which i can get cheap off a friend who is selling) give good returns? I already have a CAI, Header and soon to get exhaust system, I dont want a racecar, but daily driver that has a bit more than it currently does.
My engine has done around 150K so am wondering if its time to rebuild anyway? the engine is running well, but I worry that doing some head upgrades will end up helping the bottom end wear heaps quicker.

Thanks

Chris

[dsp26]

^^don't get the spoon ecu, if your on a tight budget then vafc at least.

[dynosaur]

my car is ITR ,

can I direct install CTR cam into my B18C without changing anything ( valves , spring etc...) ?

just direct swap ?

[dsp26]

my car is ITR ,

can I direct install CTR cam into my B18C without changing anything ( valves , spring etc...) ?

just direct swap ?

no benefit if you have a 98+ ITR as it's the same.. if you have pre-98.. it ain't even worth it...

[rpm boy]

what kinda compression are we talking about for the type c cams? whould it work on a b16b with spoon head gasket?

[zco]

no benefit if you have a 98+ ITR as it's the same.. if you have pre-98.. it ain't even worth it...

intake cam is diff
but yes. not even worth it

[jords]

I cant believe this thread is still going from 2004...

[dsp26]

I cant believe this thread is still going from 2004...

yeah i bumped it :)

but as most will agree.. it's better than every n00b starting a new post...

i actually found this in the all-motor or tech faq which everyone should visit more often... like you said its old.. good threads like this with plenty info in it get lost for that reason...

most of the +rep i give or on old posts like these i find...

[Jezzah]

ok, im gonna add to this 2004 thread.
i have a B18CR, and i was looking for the correct camshaft and camgears to upgrade to. After reading this thread, Toda A camshaft and camgears are the way to go if you dont want to change any of the valves, springs/retainers etc.
Anyone tried buddyclub spec 3 camgears and camshaft? would it be necessary to upgrade the valves/springs/retainers (not that i want to. no money for that after cams). considering its a ITR engine we are working with

cheers

jre

[fatboyz39]

ok, im gonna add to this 2004 thread.
i have a B18CR, and i was looking for the correct camshaft and camgears to upgrade to. After reading this thread, Toda A camshaft and camgears are the way to go if you dont want to change any of the valves, springs/retainers etc.
Anyone tried buddyclub spec 3 camgears and camshaft? would it be necessary to upgrade the valves/springs/retainers (not that i want to. no money for that after cams). considering its a ITR engine we are working with

cheers

jre

Spec 3 do not require valves, springs, retainers to be changed.

[Jezzah]

thanks.
if i was to upgrade the valve/springs and retianers, would i be looking at a much better gain or would it be the same as the current valve and springs on the ITR

cheers

[rpm boy]

Hi, Jezzah if you were going to keep your dc2 N/A why dont you consider spending a bit more money and doing your head up? like toda b cams or shunk 2 stage 2 cams, with springs, stems, retainers etc. its a bit more money but the return would be much greater... just my 2 cents

[Jezzah]

Thats what i had in mind, i'll do that instead, springs valves and retainers arent too expensive.
cheers

[gambate]

i have todaB in my b18cR, with standard piston. mid to high rpm range, quite good. low rpm, sigh, i'm not happy 95% of the time using the car since its a daily. i rather a TodaA2, it has low cam of specA and high cam of SpecB, best of both world..

[Jezzah]

never heard of TodaA2, but i'll look into it. ^ have got any upgraded springs or valve? or are you just running the camshaft with stock internals?

[flop101]

Would toda B cams be better than using the Toda C cams?

[DreadAngel]

Depends what you're after...

Cams aren't simply a case of more aggressive = better...

All in the application...

[Super-DA9]

http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/1434162.jpg

[INT DIST/TODA]

Would toda B cams be better than using the Toda C cams?

Depends on the application flop, if you care to PM or put your specs up, happy to advise accordingly.

Cheers.

[ALLMTR996]

Depends on the application flop, if you care to PM or put your specs up, happy to advise accordingly.

Cheers.

I honestly think we need to sit down and write how to build a combination so that people dont just buy
engine parts thinking they will work in this or that combo there is ton's of info on the net but I still
think 99% of combo's are just not right because they end up with the wrong cams to suit the rest
of there parts on and in there engine.

[dougie_504]

This is why you need to speak to an engine builder and they/you need to discuss options with the actual parts manufacturer.

Certain camshaft producers recommend different valves, springs and retainers for various reasons.


This has bitten me on the ass before - my previous engine builder just threw in X valves with Y camshafts hoping to get Z results, but the parts are only compatible to a certain extent and I damn near smashed my valves and ruined the build.

[ALLMTR996]

Thats because 99.9% of Aussie engine builders and shops that sell the parts have no idea how a Honda engine works they have there heads stuck so far up the butts its not funny,I was so sick of having to fix others mistakes its not funny to the point I would not touch cars from some Sydney shops as it was just they same old cheap arse jobs with a heaps of parts thrown together hoping it would make power.
Now I have stopped doing any work on anything other than my own my life alot less stressful.

[shake]

I honestly think we need to sit down and write how to build a combination so that people dont just buy
engine parts thinking they will work in this or that combo there is ton's of info on the net but I still
think 99% of combo's are just not right because they end up with the wrong cams to suit the rest
of there parts on and in there engine.

I'd read that.

[mocchi]

I honestly think we need to sit down and write how to build a combination so that people dont just buy
engine parts thinking they will work in this or that combo there is ton's of info on the net but I still
think 99% of combo's are just not right because they end up with the wrong cams to suit the rest
of there parts on and in there engine.

example of both maybe?

[ALLMTR996]

example of both maybe?

Biggest problem I have seen over the years of working on Honda's is guys cheap out on some of the most important components of there combination and then blame 1 thing when infact its alot more than that.I will get together a write soon and I also want to do a dyno tuning one which was something I was going to do before I got ill,everyone just has to wait a bit till I sit with a few more people from the industry that can help the write out with there knowledge and experience.