LS - Help with engine conversion

[A-man]

hey all

i really need help wit my LS and im sick of filtering through all the stuff to get to what i want

can i put a vtec (b18c i think) into my LS ive been told u cant just change the head etc because the bottom end is stronger to compansate for the extra stress vtec put on the engine... is this true

also if i was to do this conversion how would the gearbox hold out under added stress ive been told the import box is a little different to the aus spec one...

any ideas wot i would cost me and is it worth doin????

im not a full book on vtec either all i pretty much kno is it changes the timing according to the revs

[JINRAI]

maybe a title change will help you seek the answers

*title changed* gl dude :)

[A-man]

thanks man i was hoping more people would post the probs in here bout the LS aswell but thats cool

[LO_N_SXC]

hey all

i really need help wit my LS and im sick of filtering through all the stuff to get to what i want

can i put a vtec (b18c i think) into my LS ive been told u cant just change the head etc because the bottom end is stronger to compansate for the extra stress vtec put on the engine... is this true

also if i was to do this conversion how would the gearbox hold out under added stress ive been told the import box is a little different to the aus spec one...

any ideas wot i would cost me and is it worth doin????

im not a full book on vtec either all i pretty much kno is it changes the timing according to the revs

Just changing the head is called LS Vtec, where you use the Bottom end (strong) of a B18A or B18B (even B20B) and replace the head with a Vtec one from a B16A or B18C, the problem tho is that they don't rev as hadr as the Vtec engines do, and don't last as long too, as far as I remember they can only rev just a bit before 8000rpm when some Vtecs rev a bit past that, but the real downer is the reliability and endurance, unless you're willing to pay the big bucks you can go many steps further and wack some goodies into the engine to make it last and more reliable.

B18C can be converted into the LS but you have to chane a whole lot of stuff and will consume a lot of time and money, the complete wiring harness must be changed, engine mounts have to be made up for the gearbox, cross member can't be used (middle) clutch has to be converted to hydraulic plus master cylinder.

the list goes on and on!

Best bet is to replace the existing engine with a B16A or another B18 like the B18B out of a DC2 GSi.

Also depends how much you're willing to spend, and if it's really going to be worth the work and money?

Also you have to take into consideration of how long you plant to have the car for off the road, workshop performing the work and stuff like that.

I hope that enlightens your view!


Alex

[Boy_Integra]

Just changing the head is called LS Vtec, where you use the Bottom end (strong) of a B18A or B18B (even B20B) and replace the head with a Vtec one from a B16A or B18C, the problem tho is that they don't rev as hadr as the Vtec engines do, and don't last as long too, as far as I remember they can only rev just a bit before 8000rpm when some Vtecs rev a bit past that, but the real downer is the reliability and endurance, unless you're willing to pay the big bucks you can go many steps further and wack some goodies into the engine to make it last and more reliable.

B18C can be converted into the LS but you have to chane a whole lot of stuff and will consume a lot of time and money, the complete wiring harness must be changed, engine mounts have to be made up for the gearbox, cross member can't be used (middle) clutch has to be converted to hydraulic plus master cylinder.

the list goes on and on!

Best bet is to replace the existing engine with a B16A or another B18 like the B18B out of a DC2 GSi.

Also depends how much you're willing to spend, and if it's really going to be worth the work and money?

Also you have to take into consideration of how long you plant to have the car for off the road, workshop performing the work and stuff like that.

I hope that enlightens your view!


Alex


Whoow! Very interesting stuff.. But again like Alex has said will it be worth all that time and money you'll be putting in it? Anyone ever hear anything bout a HRV engine going into our lil LS's?

[A-man]

so if i put a dc2 vtec donk into it will it take long to convert and how much work invovled then


basicly i want a almost bolt up engine wit little work as posible but also so i can get vtec....

ive been told vtec is worth doin is this true??

otherwise is there any point in doing this car up for speed...???

the other thing a dc5 (sry guys im still learning) thats the new integra right u rekon the rear spoiler off that would look good on a LS?? otherwise wot bout a dc2 type r spoiler look good on a LS???

so in plain english u cant just take out a b18a (leave box in there) then drop a b18c straight in?

lastly wots a b18b?

[Paul1985]

so if i put a dc2 vtec donk into it will it take long to convert and how much work invovled then


basicly i want a almost bolt up engine wit little work as posible but also so i can get vtec....

ive been told vtec is worth doin is this true??

otherwise is there any point in doing this car up for speed...???

the other thing a dc5 (sry guys im still learning) thats the new integra right u rekon the rear spoiler off that would look good on a LS?? otherwise wot bout a dc2 type r spoiler look good on a LS???

so in plain english u cant just take out a b18a (leave box in there) then drop a b18c straight in?

lastly wots a b18b?

are the DC2 / DC5 spoilers even able to fit the your car?

b18b is an engine :p SEARCH!!

and u wanna leave the box in there.. why? if your swapping an engine u could just get a JDM half cut and have a better box :)

what is your aim with your car?

if u dont know if vtec is worth it, then search "vtec" and get to understand it and maybe search for some honda video clips so u can see/hear vtec.

if u want your non-vtec engine swapped out for an engine with vtec.. a fair bit of work will be involved and it will cost a fair bit of $$$

[mooshie]

does not have to cost a huge amount. i use a cable B16 gearbox and all the engine mounts lined up no problem, the middle 'brace' on the crossmember is not on the da6 anyway and i have not had one for 3 years with no problems. The only real pain is the wiring but its not THAT bad most workshops could do it easily. The hardest part of doing the swap is finding an engine and or selling the hydro box, i was lucky and able to find and engine on its own and they had the b16 box in stock aswell. all up my conversion cost $4986 although this was 3 1/2 years ago and i think prices may have risen a bit since then. you will never regret it.

[A-man]

basicly wot i want out of the car is a nice fast car wit a bit more balls then now the engine has a heap of miles on it so i was lookin for a upgrade in a yr or so. i was also thinkin if makin it go super fast wasnt gonna b worth it maybe a nice stereo system wit nice body etc.


wot u rekon im up for for a b18c (price wise) and also a b18b

front cuts btw....

from wot i loooked at there isnt much diff from a b18a and a b18b unless im missing somethin

im also reading on a site that vtec is pointless and a waste of time... unless u drive it in high rpm all the time which doesnt usually happen

because the vtec is designed for higher revs it doesnt have much torque and this is where non vtec engines have the advantage because they have more torque....

this raises more questions on my driving style and how i perfer to drive me car either by revving its nuts off or using it for low revs i was thinkin about using it for racing mcs and stuff so in this case it would b better to have torque as opposed to high end power....

am i right???

as for the spoiler i got NFI if it will fit but i can make it fit


thanks for ur help guys u guys know wot ur tokin bout

[LO_N_SXC]

basicly wot i want out of the car is a nice fast car wit a bit more balls then now the engine has a heap of miles on it so i was lookin for a upgrade in a yr or so. i was also thinkin if makin it go super fast wasnt gonna b worth it maybe a nice stereo system wit nice body etc.


wot u rekon im up for for a b18c (price wise) and also a b18b

front cuts btw....

from wot i loooked at there isnt much diff from a b18a and a b18b unless im missing somethin

im also reading on a site that vtec is pointless and a waste of time... unless u drive it in high rpm all the time which doesnt usually happen

because the vtec is designed for higher revs it doesnt have much torque and this is where non vtec engines have the advantage because they have more torque....

this raises more questions on my driving style and how i perfer to drive me car either by revving its nuts off or using it for low revs i was thinkin about using it for racing mcs and stuff so in this case it would b better to have torque as opposed to high end power....

am i right???

as for the spoiler i got NFI if it will fit but i can make it fit


thanks for ur help guys u guys know wot ur tokin bout

Like I have told many people in your situation, is to get your hands on a B16a from either a DA6 or Civic and drop that in, with no problems and reliable Vtec power, down side may be the miles the engine has done thus making it a candidate for rebuilding.

Thats Option #1.

Option #2: B18B from a 96+ DC2 GSi Aus sepc or Jap spec, drops straight in with the smallest mods that even my granmother could do her self. The difference between B18A and B18B is the age difference, better cylinder head design, lower kays and about 10 - 15 more HP, downside NON Vtec and thats about it really.

Option #3: B20B from HRV, fits right in due to having simillar block design as to the B18a and B18b, convertion is as straight foward as to B18B, being a B20 means 2000cc (two litre) more torque and so forths. Downside is that it still aint Vtec and if converted to Turbo it wont last as long, 2000cc = more fuel which you may look at now that the fuel prices are so high.

Option #4: B18C as I mentioned before, this would be your ultimate convertion, but the most expencive, if I were you I would discard this one, unless you've got the dosh and time then its really up to you.

I would personaly go for option 2 and add a turbo into it, having 1834cc's makes it great for a Turbo set up and together with stronger internals would make a great package, Many people talk about LS Vtec for both B18A-B and B20B but to be straght out I was looking at doing this my self but after reading how much work is involved it really ain't worth it, to add to this they don't last long neither!

option one is also great but if you can get hold of a front cut, see with the B18B all you need is the engine by it self which makes it cheaper, but the B16a yet a gain is Vtec and easier to intall, if you decide to go for the B16 it would be more at home with a Supercharger straped next to it, I know not many people in here like them but it makes sence hooking up one into a B16a Vtec that revs high and has the lowest amounts of torque out off all the B series engines, the supercharger would make a great addition in regards to getting the car going off the line and such, look at for example the infamous Toyota 4AG-ZE, its a 1600cc (1.6 litre) engine, revs up to 7500rpm + and makes something like close to 188HP out of a 1.6!
Imagine this setup on a B16A + Supercharger + Vtec!

Option three is ok, but only if you wouldn't mind minimal modz, would be great as a daily driver with the extra torque compared to the B18B, would make great Turbo engine but with better - stronger internals.

Option four = don't go there, unless you have the money and time, Oh and can spare the headaches.

Another option not mantioned was to plant a K20, well if I said to discard option four i would say the same about this one!

Cheers!

Alex

[LO_N_SXC]

Regards to the spoiler, just get rid of it like I did, check my car specs to see how it looks!

[ONV73C]

A-Man, visit www.g2ic.com (http://www.g2ic.com) there is endless amounts of info there on our model integra's. You will find everything you need to know regarding engine conversions, including a DIY guide.

:thumbsup:

[A-man]

yeh i like the no spoiler but i wanted to b unique u kno

thanks heaps for ur help etc hey im shockin wit honda engine numbers and stuff only thing i kno is c = vtec 18 = 1.8L or 1800cc and b = b series engine

wot if i was to turbo my existing engine because its a dohc and stuff only thing its lackin is a vtec which isnt really that bad the turbo could make up for it right?

[DaPlaya]

the turbo would more than make up for it.

[2NTICN]

a b18b i rekon would be a waste of time n money, its nearly exactly the same as ur stock engine, maybe u could turbo it if u really wanted a b18b but i think uve got alot more options. get a b16a and spend sum extra cash on it, get a b18c and ull be laughing, or personal choice... get a b20 and wack a b16a vtec head on it and ull haave urself a weapon

[LO_N_SXC]

a b18b i rekon would be a waste of time n money, its nearly exactly the same as ur stock engine, maybe u could turbo it if u really wanted a b18b but i think uve got alot more options. get a b16a and spend sum extra cash on it, get a b18c and ull be laughing, or personal choice... get a b20 and wack a b16a vtec head on it and ull haave urself a weapon

I was assuming that his engine is worn, that is why he's asking if he should rebuild or conversion, that is why I mentioned to replace the existing engine with a B18B.

I rekon he can Turbo his existing one, remember it needs to be rebuilt, he might as well go one of the options that I have set as a guide.

BTW B20B with B16a head is not a bad Idea, unless you're willing to rebuild the engine just like Rotaries, 100,000kms??????

They don't last long thats why we don't see many doing the rounds!

If the B20 would be so great with that cylinder head then why didn't Honda buil them Vtec to beging with?

IMO B18B + Turbo OR B16A + Supercharged!

And if ya don't care about cost and would like to be Unique drop a B18C.


Oh and to answer you question A-Man

B16A = 1.6 (1595cc) Vtec.

B18B = 1.8 (1834cc) NON Vtec.

B18c = 1.8 (1797cc) Vtec.

B20B = 2.0 (1995cc) NON Vtec.

[A-man]

thanks guys

yeh i rekon ill head for the b18a wit a turbo

i heard them jdm b18c things wit 210bhp r like 6k


i got a price for gold rims and tyres for 1400 at the spoiler shop... good price? there 17s

[2NTICN]

did u mean b20 with b16a head IS A GOOD IDEA or NOT A GOOD IDEA???

[LO_N_SXC]

did u mean b20 with b16a head IS A GOOD IDEA or NOT A GOOD IDEA???
Eh not too much of a good idea :o

The block tends to be quite Brittle and the rods ain't up to the task.

Also the Combustion chamber on the B16a head has to be modifed to adapt the bore size of the B20, in simple words a LS Vtec using a B18 block and Vtec head is heaps of work then the LS Vtec using a B20 is even more of a pain in the ass to do.

That is exactly why many people don't build them, and opt for a straight swap or dump a B16 in, but those that do have the $$$ and can aford the B18C well they can do so too!

6K for the B18C sounds about right, same as when I looked for one back three yrs ago.

Also another option I never mentioned was Conversion of dumping a H22a in a DA9 Ls, I have seen this in the flesh, great amount of work involved, money and time too, great combination of torque and top end.

I ment a guy once throug a friend that had/has one in his LS, this thing was pretty quick and looked like a sleeper.

[b16a_integra]

i got the cable one from the dqa6 i just modified the centre cross member to make it fit, i just scored a new engine also, its got 4-1 extractors, cams , cam gears and diff pistons, lucky me :) the engine swap was pretty simple cost me 800bux i changed the loom myself got my mechanic to put the engine in and got the auto elec to wire up a couple little things so it would run. this new engine is gonna pull hard.

[tinkerbell]

Eh not too much of a good idea :o

The block tends to be quite Brittle and the rods ain't up to the task.

Also the Combustion chamber on the B16a head has to be modifed to adapt the bore size of the B20, in simple words a LS Vtec using a B18 block and Vtec head is heaps of work then the LS Vtec using a B20 is even more of a pain in the ass to do.

That is exactly why many people don't build them, and opt for a straight swap or dump a B16 in, but those that do have the $$$ and can aford the B18C well they can do so too!



you seem to know alot about B20VTEC's eh?

how many have you actually built?

[tinkerbell]

ps - you might wanna check up on the B20B displacement, you are out by a good 22cc :rolleyes:

[LO_N_SXC]

you seem to know alot about B20VTEC's eh?

how many have you actually built?

Yeah I have built like 50 fully sick B20Vtecs bro they're all fully hecktik. (jks)

Nah I've just read heaps on them all because I was close to doing the LS/Vtec convo on my LS my self, i have also met two guys who have done this and are close to admiting to regreting it for the amount of work and money put into them.

22cc's oooppsss, missed that i guess coz I haven't really paid much attention to the B20?

I do much of the things on my ride my self, I used to be a mechanic a while back, thats why when I read and found info on these convertion I decided not to go ahead coz of reliability and cost, I'm better of bolting a Turbo.

Back when I changed the engine I wish I would have bought the B16 front cut I had found, but I have a mate that owns an LS with a B16 and he hates the low end that his car has, so it makes it all goon anyways.

but then again I'm selling the car soon.

My next Victim might be in the form of a SW20 MR2 GT Turbo!

I love Hondas don't get me wrong, but its about time for a change, and the MR2 makes modifiing much easier, just bolt ons with no custom jobs, Turbo base makes it much reliable than making an N/A - Turbo and I was close to buying one before I bought the Teg I have always liked them too.

Cheers!

[tinkerbell]

Yeah I have built like 50 fully sick B20Vtecs bro they're all fully hecktik. (jks)


well, i have only built 2 and can guarantee i have written more about them than you have read...

i think you might have been more accurate in saying that a B20VTEC or LS/VTEC is not really a good idea ... for novices or inexperienced builders...

if two guys you *met* are close to regret, maybe they coulda used some more guidance? or if a shop built it for them, well, bad luck...

but B20's should not to be shunned as you have shunned them, it is only bad/lazy builders who give the mighty B20VTEC a bad name...

A-man - go with B16A from a JDM Integra Xsi it is cheap and fun. you shoudl buy a 'half-cut' with all the parts you need, these are around $2500

[LO_N_SXC]

well, i have only built 2 and can guarantee i have written more about them than you have read...

i think you might have been more accurate in saying that a B20VTEC or LS/VTEC is not really a good idea ... for novices or inexperienced builders...

if two guys you *met* are close to regret, maybe they coulda used some more guidance? or if a shop built it for them, well, bad luck...

but B20's should not to be shunned as you have shunned them, it is only bad/lazy builders who give the mighty B20VTEC a bad name...

A-man - go with B16A from a JDM Integra Xsi it is cheap and fun. you shoudl buy a 'half-cut' with all the parts you need, these are around $2500

I'm not giving them a bad name or nothing, I'm just spearing him the trouble that comes with building a B20Vtec.

Tinker this is one of the numerous documents I've read

Here is a link to a LS/Vtec disscusion I read on G2IC.com

It explains LS/Vtec and is the same document that kinda put me off form doing the conversion.

Link (http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69114&highlight=Vtec+pros+cons)

Like I said, ocassions like this can easily be turned into an argument rather than a disscusion.

Keep that in mind all.

As to the Half cut Tinker is right, that would prove to be your easiest option and a great way to convert your DA9 to Vtec.


Hope that helps.

[tinkerbell]

well, that document simply perpetuates the R/S ratio myth...

this was proven wrong years ago... i guess internet myths never end...

oh, it is from 2003... i guess you need to read some up-to-date stuff...

[LO_N_SXC]

well, that document simply perpetuates the R/S ratio myth...

this was proven wrong years ago... i guess internet myths never end...

oh, it is from 2003... i guess you need to read some up-to-date stuff...
Look Dave

I read this BACK when I bought my car and was planing on doing the LS Vtec conversion.

Do you know how long ago I bought my car?

of course NO!

I bought it back in 02 with worn piston rings, under a year later it went up shit creek.

this is when I came across this article.

So don't assume I haven't read something new, you don't know!

Oh and to add more to this, Sorry MR I know it all for reading something two yrs ago and bringing it up today!

*piff*

To many egos!

So lets go back to the topic

ok

Have a nice day! ;)

[LO_N_SXC]

*piff* myth

It does make sence from a mechanical view...........

you should know that Tinker.

Oh BTW here is another document I had in my PC at work on how to build the LS Vtec.

Link (http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0411scc_hybrid/)

[wkdteg]

c'mon fellas lets not turn this in2 an arguement. all aaron wanted was a lil guidance in regards to his engine, lets not put him off our forum ey?
now back 2 ur corners, there will b no round 3!

[tinkerbell]

*piff* myth

It does make sence from a mechanical view...........

you should know that Tinker.

so teh R/S on the LS/VTEC is 1.54 and on the B18C it is 1.58

0.04 difference?!?!?

yet the B18C is allowed to rev to 8600rpm from factory, nad yet the LS/VTEC is denigrated becuse of the "poor R/S ratio"

i don't get it?

they are both so close in R/S ratio, yet, modifed B18C's rev well past 9000rpm, yet LS/VTECs cant?

from a mechanical veiw - this is nonsense.

but it is wayyyyy of topic, so i am going to drop it...

[LO_N_SXC]

I'm not giving them a bad name or nothing, I'm just spearing him the trouble that comes with building a B20Vtec.

Tinker this is one of the numerous documents I've read

Here is a link to a LS/Vtec disscusion I read on G2IC.com

It explains LS/Vtec and is the same document that kinda put me off form doing the conversion.

Link (http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69114&highlight=Vtec+pros+cons)

Like I said, ocassions like this can easily be turned into an argument rather than a disscusion.

Keep that in mind all.

As to the Half cut Tinker is right, that would prove to be your easiest option and a great way to convert your DA9 to Vtec.


Hope that helps.

I have mentioned it before.

[tinkerbell]

c'mon fellas lets not turn this in2 an arguement. all aaron wanted was a lil guidance in regards to his engine, lets not put him off our forum ey?
now back 2 ur corners, there will b no round 3!

yeah, i am out, sorry to interupt your thread A-man...

[LO_N_SXC]

Yah sorry A-Man + Tinker

I at least Hope that the info links help.

[wkdteg]

good call alex

[FR33K]

why does everyone put a space between each sentence lol

[aus91integra]

well to help A-man heres some food for thought from ppl that have done a few of these conversions:

myself - i have put a h22a in LS i do not recommend unless you know what you are doing and appreciate the h22 for what it is. pros more power and torque. cons cost and time maintenance issues. looking back and dealing with some of the issues "maintenance and ongoing" i would say b20vtec over h22a.

tinkerbell - has "built" and proven the reliability of b20vtec.

fr33k - has b16a, wish he had a b20 or h22 as he lacks torque but still fun car.

[FR33K]

yeh b16 - crappy bottom end but the top end is pretty good..
depends on your driving style
if your racing then ur never in the bottom end anyway :)
but driving around n stuff it can get a bit annoying having to wait for the revs to build up hehehe

b16+b20 would be perfect !!!

[ONV73C]

yeh b16 - crappy bottom end but the top end is pretty good..
depends on your driving style
if your racing then ur never in the bottom end anyway :)
but driving around n stuff it can get a bit annoying having to wait for the revs to build up hehehe

b16+b20 would be perfect !!!

U drive like a granny anyway :rolleyes:


A-Man, i agree with Tink & Fr33k. B16A is the way to go...


And i like putting spaces in between the lines god damn it!!!

[A-man]

yeh i like using spaces to its easier to read

thanks heaps guys hey

but i been doin a little homework and stuff and it looks like its gonna b expensive and stuff so i mite just pimp it up and lower it nice rims bodykit etc... exhaust system

i just seems that if the car dont ave it stock its to much hassle to change it so it does... (plus its freakin expensive lol)

u guys r all alot of help and thanks hey unless i get a hell steal wit a front cut i think i mite leave it or unless my engine goes bang...

but i mite go for the b18c coz i drive like a granny usually and when i need to i rev it up.. though low down power is great but fwds dont like to much torque :(

my next car will b a mr2, supra, wrx, or somethin wit a turbo for sure

[HyperZ]

Heyas Ive got a black ITR wing if you're interested.. pm me for details :)

[integrity]

yeah u can do the top swap ...
but what will it do really?
chuck in the base and a b16 a head to high flow the motor
(b16 vtec head is more high flowed on b18 vtec motros)

[LO_N_SXC]

yeh i like using spaces to its easier to read

thanks heaps guys hey

but i been doin a little homework and stuff and it looks like its gonna b expensive and stuff so i mite just pimp it up and lower it nice rims bodykit etc... exhaust system

i just seems that if the car dont ave it stock its to much hassle to change it so it does... (plus its freakin expensive lol)

u guys r all alot of help and thanks hey unless i get a hell steal wit a front cut i think i mite leave it or unless my engine goes bang...

but i mite go for the b18c coz i drive like a granny usually and when i need to i rev it up.. though low down power is great but fwds dont like to much torque :(

my next car will b a mr2, supra, wrx, or somethin wit a turbo for sure
Oh oh get the MR2 thats most likely what I will be getting next, I'm on the same boat need something with a Turbo and that I can replace the stock parts with Bolt-ons to make it a better packege, plus I've always wanted an MR2 GT.

lol

[b18cfreak]

personally i'd put a b18c in your car and go all out motor on that ;) none of this mr2 forced induction crap hehe

[A-man]

LMAO thats because u kno deep down the mr2 is a way better car then most hondas

them things stock wit some good tuning do like 14 sec passes

[HyperZ]

Im pretty sure Type R's can do low 14's too... 1.8L NA :)

[ONV73C]

Im pretty sure Type R's can do low 14's too... 1.8L NA :)

with a few mods they can

[wkdteg]

ide still rather a type r over an mr2 anyday

[b18cfreak]

There's nothing like hittin 9K rpms as u go screaming past ur hotted up commodore on p's :cool: LOL go vtec na all the way!!

[A-man]

yeh but a mr2 does 14s STOCK NO MODS

vtec good and all but fwds boring u cant drift and they get understeer and u cant correct that that easily and i just perfer awd or rwd

[LO_N_SXC]

ide still rather a type r over an mr2 anyday
DC5 don't really do it for me, neither DC2, but the Jap spec DC2 does tickle my fancy but are expensive.

MR2 has the looks, and is Mid mounted engine makes it a very good car in regards to handling, not like FWDs that tend to understeer.

Duuunnn know would have to see what happens!

[LO_N_SXC]

DC5 don't really do it for me, neither DC2, but the Jap spec DC2 does tickle my fancy but are expensive.

MR2 has the looks, and is Mid mounted engine makes it a very good car in regards to handling, not like FWDs that tend to understeer.

Duuunnn know would have to see what happens!

Just a bit of a Tease of wat I want the MR2 to look like (if I end up getting one!) Black with a Border Body kit with some simillar looking wheels.
http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/6899/blkbox8jm.png
http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/5847/blackmr20fr.jpg

[wkdteg]

i must admit its a sexy lookin thing. r they aero tops? would look spaztic without a roof!
but i gotta say hopefuly, my next car will either b a dc2 then upgrade 2 an S2k (my ultimate car)

[aus91integra]

/unsubscribe

[A-man]

lol yeh they r a targa top man